With all the discussion of extending players, whenever Adoree comes up it's assumed he will be gone next year. Why? Yes, he has had a couple injuries, but he has consistently been one of the best players on this defense at a vital position. I just don't understand why he is being dismissed. We obviously need more than one CB, and as I look at the roster, other than Banks, there isn't anyone thats established themselves on this roster.
Good analogy. Perhaps the same with Willams? Good players making too much for their value?
Hopefully, he just has to be #2 corner now
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still sweeping...
Good analogy. Perhaps the same with Willams? Good players making too much for their value?
I think this is reality....kind of why Leo has not been extended to reduce his cap hit this year...eat the money now and be clear.
Facts are a bitch.
He played in 11 games in 2019.
He played in 3 games in 2020.
He played in 13 games in 2021.
He played in 10 games in 2022.
You guys really need to pay attention.
He hasn't been injury prone? He's missed 29 games over the past four seasons.
There is a lot more to it but that was easily Julian Love’s worst game of the year and he is no longer here. I think that ending really stung Daboll after what was a fine season. I wonder if Jackson is thought to have underperformed there.
Not dismissing him. He was having a good year until he got hurt (again). I'm simply telling you the issue with him. The Titans let him go for a reason.
Exactly
Exactly sir.
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you build incentives into his contract. Maybe he doesnt go for that, but I wouldn't dismiss him as a player going forward.
Not dismissing him. He was having a good year until he got hurt (again). I'm simply telling you the issue with him. The Titans let him go for a reason.
...and yet he has still been our best CB since he's been here, even factoring the injuries. It cant be ignored that he was hurt returning a punt, not playing CB last year.
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In comment 16111075 section125 said:
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still sweeping...
Good analogy. Perhaps the same with Willams? Good players making too much for their value?
I think this is reality....kind of why Leo has not been extended to reduce his cap hit this year...eat the money now and be clear.
Pretty much it.
That’s pretty reasonable for a starting CB. He’s not a #1 but with Banks on the other side to match up with physical X WRs I’m all for keeping Jackson as the speed guy on the other side.
what doesn't his current contract have to do with an extension?
He plays hard when he’s in there, but football is a tough business.
Daniel Jones
Dexter Lawrence
With a few guys coming up
Andrew Thomas (High Priority)
Xavier McKinney
Saquon Barkley (Low Priority)
Jackson is injury prone and leaving his prime season. You can’t invest a 10+ mill contract on a guy like that, especially when you have other priorities.
Jackson is injury prone and leaving his prime season. You can’t invest a 10+ mill contract on a guy like that, especially when you have other priorities.
If they feel he can't stay healthy, I get that. But we already refused to invest that kind of money in Bradberry. How many people still think that was the right decision?
Right, and he's going into his 7th season, and you combine that with the injuries, I think it's self explanatory why he's not looked at as part of the future. It's not to say he's not a valuable player this year, it just is what it is.
Make a decision next off season.
If the Giants want him,
He may want to stick around and sign a decent deal.
While the Giants did gameplan Jefferson more in the playoff game and give Adoree some over the top safety help, Adoree gave the Giants that CB1 swagger against what could be the #1 WR in the NFL arguably.
I wish the Giants could find a punt returner that isn't a valued starter either at CB or WR. So many injuries come from returning punts and those guys are too valuable.
Also, Do you think Flott is being groomed for the slot?
I think Jackson and Williams are excellent players
but they likely want more money than the giants want to
pay them
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still sweeping...
Good analogy. Perhaps the same with Willams? Good players making too much for their value?
Agreed, this is mostly it. Jackson played at a fairly high level last year, and the injury wasn't from starting at CB as we know. No need relating that to prior missed games.
Just because he misses a few games last year doesn’t mean he’s not part of the immediate future.
Just because he misses a few games last year doesn’t mean he’s not part of the immediate future.
It seems to be the perception on podcasts and message boards this off-season. That’s why I asked this question.
Players like Jackson and Williams are in the second half of their careers, Williams likely in the last 20% of his career. I don’t see Schoen signing either of them to lucrative extensions. I think it was pretty telling that he didn’t re-work either deal this offseason, which is what many expected to happen.
The roughly $50M those two players are accounting for on this years cap will be used to extend Thomas and McKinney from a future cap perspective. If Flott or Aaron Robinson don’t step up this year we will likely see another high pick at CB in next years draft and probably another D-lineman to replace Williams.
Jackson was basically unmovable last year because of his contract. All things being equal, I believe the Giants would have cut Jackson over Bradberry if they could and had to make a choice between the two.
That doesn't bode well for Jackson's future, but everything will be dependent on contract demands.
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Injury prone. His injury from last year was because he was him returning a punt which he will never do again. He was balling out before that. I agree he should be extended and in the long term plans
Facts are a bitch.
He played in 11 games in 2019.
He played in 3 games in 2020.
He played in 13 games in 2021.
He played in 10 games in 2022.
When you put it like that...he has missed 23 out of 65 games, over 1/3. I would keep him around on a fair contract, but nothing excessive. Same with Leo, if he is willing to sign for a fair contract--he already got his big bag--then we do it.
Are they being overpaid for productivity?
Leonard Williams is different in that he rarely gets hurt (last year was the first time he missed any time. The guy plays hurt too. However, his contract is pretty darn significant. The Giants could do what Philly has done and say, he's older and making too much. I'd prefer to keep him, but I could see them parting ways.
Adoree impressed me last year, but he got hurt again. And he's making a lot of money.
Pride is an issue here as players who are still good seldom accept less money.
I think Jackson and Williams are excellent players
but they likely want more money than the giants want to
pay them
Hilary with the win.
Last year he was hurt returning punts. Should have never been in that position.
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got to stay healthy. He's been an injury-prone player.
Last year he was hurt returning punts. Should have never been in that position.
Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that he has missed significant time the past four seasons with injuries, most of which came at CB.
The player knows it's his last big bite at the apple, and the team knows the odds of him completing that deal at high level are lower.
Gettleman was open to three year deals -- Bradberry, Williams, Martinez, and Jackson all got them. This is to the player's advantage and gets them to UFA at an early enough age for the last bite.
I'd prefer Williams and Jackson just play out their deals. See where the arrow is pointing and make an offer next year if it's wise.
If nothing done at the bye then same deal at the EOS.
He's been injured and ineffective for 1/4 of the year the previous two seasons. He's also going into his 9th NFL season.
He's the type of player I'd definitely want to reassess at the end of this year instead of investing more guaranteed money.
Assuming that's Plan A, Plan B could go many different ways. Extending or tagging Jackson is one.
Part of the problem is he is on the field too much and hopefully some of the players signed help take some snaps.
Same deal as Jax; evaluate at bye and then again EOS.
Deep, very talented fronts is what you need in the playoffs.
If he has a really good year and stays healthy you find a way to keep him for a couple more. Then you draft a DL in next years draft.
Maybe he'll have a fantastic, healthy 2023. Of course, that's a double-edged sword because it means the price to retain him will be even higher. So even if he gives the Giants ample reason to want him around, he's unlikely to be Plan A.
Also, hello friend! there is a cap to manage which means you can not sign everyone.
when some hopeful but clueless fan suggest "we could offer him a team friendly deal with incentives" I laugh and cry at the same time. Why in the fuck would any player agree to that when he knows he has a injury history.
Some of you need to go back to critical thinking skills 101.
dude stop, you're embarrassing yourself.
He has the second biggest cap hit of any CB in the NFL. Only 900,000 less than the highest.
It was a really really stupid contract, no hindsight.
He's been injured and ineffective for 1/4 of the year the previous two seasons. He's also going into his 9th NFL season.
He's the type of player I'd definitely want to reassess at the end of this year instead of investing more guaranteed money.
Agreed. He's no longer a player to be relied upon with respect to being consistently healthy. Better gone a year early than a year late.
Remember, in 2020 the Giants inside defensive line rotation was:
Leonard Williams - 26
Dalvin Tomlinson - 26
Austin Johnson - 26
BJ Hill - 25
Dexter Lawrence - 23
All five of those guys are good to great every day starters.
Also, hello friend! there is a cap to manage which means you can not sign everyone.
when some hopeful but clueless fan suggest "we could offer him a team friendly deal with incentives" I laugh and cry at the same time. Why in the fuck would any player agree to that when he knows he has a injury history.
Some of you need to go back to critical thinking skills 101.
So if he’s not worth a standard contract, why would another team offer him that? You seem pretty cocky to not understand what a free market is.
He has the second biggest cap hit of any CB in the NFL. Only 900,000 less than the highest.
It was a really really stupid contract, no hindsight.
3 years for 39 million is the 14th highest contract for cb I believe?
Jackson’s next contract would take him to 30 yrs old at a position where guys fall off quick- especially if they’ve spent a lot of time being hurt.
Same can be said for Leo. Before JS hand these guys a new contract, those are some of the factors he will look at. Better to get rid of someone a year too soon as opposed to a year too late.
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...and he is constantly injured (here and with the Titans).
He has the second biggest cap hit of any CB in the NFL. Only 900,000 less than the highest.
It was a really really stupid contract, no hindsight.
3 years for 39 million is the 14th highest contract for cb I believe?
Check his cap hit for 2023. It's over $19 million.
I am not saying signing Jackson was stupid, but Gettleman's contract was reckless and insane. Jackons's cap hit was peanuts in 2021, but in 2022 it was huge and it's even bigger this year.
That's why the Giants had to cut Bradberry last year. Even though he was the better CB, cutting him was a cap savings, while cutting Jackson would have been an additional $9 million cap hit, plus $10 million dead money.
And the Giants couldn't keep both Bradberry and Jackson, their combined cap hit in 2022 would have been well over $30 million.
Sportrac - 2023 CB Cap Hit - ( New Window )
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In comment 16111227 sb from NYT Forum said:
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...and he is constantly injured (here and with the Titans).
He has the second biggest cap hit of any CB in the NFL. Only 900,000 less than the highest.
It was a really really stupid contract, no hindsight.
3 years for 39 million is the 14th highest contract for cb I believe?
Check his cap hit for 2023. It's over $19 million.
I am not saying signing Jackson was stupid, but Gettleman's contract was reckless and insane. Jackons's cap hit was peanuts in 2021, but in 2022 it was huge and it's even bigger this year.
That's why the Giants had to cut Bradberry last year. Even though he was the better CB, cutting him was a cap savings, while cutting Jackson would have been an additional $9 million cap hit, plus $10 million dead money.
And the Giants couldn't keep both Bradberry and Jackson, their combined cap hit in 2022 would have been well over $30 million.
Sportrac - 2023 CB Cap Hit - ( New Window )
Gotcha, yeah Gettleman was bone-headed dinosaur with a shriveled brain. The structure of Adoree's contract was probably to make room for the great Kenny Golladay.
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physical. History shows players that size with that level of physicality don't last, hence become injury prone.
Also, hello friend! there is a cap to manage which means you can not sign everyone.
when some hopeful but clueless fan suggest "we could offer him a team friendly deal with incentives" I laugh and cry at the same time. Why in the fuck would any player agree to that when he knows he has a injury history.
Some of you need to go back to critical thinking skills 101.
So if he’s not worth a standard contract, why would another team offer him that? You seem pretty cocky to not understand what a free market is.
Um what?
Exactly
Some of you need to go back to critical thinking skills 101.
You’re making the case for why a team should not sign him to a traditional contract based on his injury history and also asking why he would ever sign an incentive laden contract based on his injury history. I’ll just assume your in high school and look past the douchiness.
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when some hopeful but clueless fan suggest "we could offer him a team friendly deal with incentives" I laugh and cry at the same time. Why in the fuck would any player agree to that when he knows he has a injury history.
Some of you need to go back to critical thinking skills 101.
You’re making the case for why a team should not sign him to a traditional contract based on his injury history and also asking why he would ever sign an incentive laden contract based on his injury history. I’ll just assume your in high school and look past the douchiness.
Come on man, keep up. We are talking about the Giants, which is a team who is building for longevity. Jackson doesn’t fit that plan
I’m referring to a team who is in a win now phase and would pay Jackson what he wants despite the injury concerns.
The fit is not there. The end
If Jackson has an equally impressive year next year -- the Giants will happily extend him on those terms.
As it stands today, Jackson is playing on a 1/11M deal. That's a great value for Jackson.
2) What does Jackson's 2023 cap hit have to do with whether or not he is worth re-signing or extending? If we do so, either now or after the season, the price will be determined by negotiation between Schoen and Jackson's team, and will be determined by their perception of the market at the time; not by this year's cap hit.
3) He is 27. Why are any of you confident you know how many good years he has left one way or the other? This is hardly over-the-hill for a cornerback; yet, at some point they start to slow too much
4) How many good corners do we have? How many do we need? Even if Robinson is healthy, Banks excels, and one of the other young corners (Robinson, Flott, Holmes?) develops, we will need to replace Jackson if he leaves. No reason to expect a better value from a different veteran FA, and we will have to decide on Jackson before we know how next years draft plays out.
Hadn't he missed significant time before joining the Giants?
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I’m referring to a team who is in a win now phase and would pay Jackson what he wants despite the injury concerns.
you seem to be making up imaginary scenarios now. The issue at hand is, will the Giants attempt to extend one of their best players on defense at a position of need. The GM can get creative and work with the player to figure out what works best for both parties. He fits the culture and is playing at a high level.
doubt it.
Linval Joseph was a young upper tier DL who Reese let walk. We had JPP also at that time. Austin (2011), Bromley (2013) and Hankins (2014) I guess were looked at potential replacements. Of course desperation meant signing a troubled DT who had one outstanding year till he fizzled out. Happened a bunch with that spending spree.
Williams is a superior player and has more versatility.
Hill could have been kept but Graham did not give him big reps. Both DT and Hill are better served in 4-3 DT's. Dexter Lawrence is a superior player so DT is one you let go. Third team confirms this.
Williams is a much different player and that has to be considered.
Well, sure if they can find a cheaper solution that would be great. At the moment Adoree is by far an away the best CB on the team. He may not fit the mold they are looking for perfectly, but he’s still better than anyone else on the roster. (Banks not withstanding). I certainly understand the logic of waiting and seeing how the young guys shake out.