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DeAndre Hopkins?

mittenedman : 5/14/2023 4:11 pm
There was smoke the Giants were interested in Hopkins but wanted to see how the draft played out. Heading into OTA's this is my best guess as to how the WR's sit:

1. Slayton
2. Hodgins
3. Campbell
4. Hyatt
5. Crowder
6. Smith

PS - Ford-Wheaton

PUP - Robinson
PUP - Shepard

I see a bunch of role players who can be solid if they're not all punching above their weight class. But lots of Robins, no Batman.

Hodgins is a nice safety valve on the backside of a #1. You do not want him as your #1.

Slayton is a nice arrow to have, but shouldn't be relied upon as a full-time starter.

Campbell has shown to be more of a role player than a go-to guy.

Hyatt's a rookie.

When Shep/Robinson come back, they still aren't #1's either.


Isn't there still plenty of room for Hopkins? Does it make sense to bring him in?
I've always been in favor  
Mike from SI : 5/14/2023 4:15 pm : link
but the BBI consensus is that he's over the hill and not worth the assets we'd need to give up. I disagree.
A big no from me.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/14/2023 4:16 pm : link
Can’t throw Waller out of that mix. He’s a big key in our receiving corps..

My opinion is that if there was real smoke, it has wafted away
To ask another way:  
mittenedman : 5/14/2023 4:18 pm : link
Is this still - even with Waller and Barkley - a bottom 1/3rd skill group?
RE: To ask another way:  
Mike from SI : 5/14/2023 4:20 pm : link
In comment 16116665 mittenedman said:
Is this still - even with Waller and Barkley - a bottom 1/3rd skill group?

I believe it's definitely bottom half, maybe bottom third.
I am just not sure that he fits what Daboll and Kafka seem to want  
robbieballs2003 : 5/14/2023 4:22 pm : link
which is explosive types of plays whether that is getting deep or being able to run after the catch. Hopkins can 100% fit on this team. I am just not sure he is they type they want. The player is great though.
$19.4m salary  
BillT : 5/14/2023 4:25 pm : link
Means you probably have to restructure both Leo and Adoree. So, it’s not just getting Hopkins. It changes long term plans.
It really comes down to price  
Finch : 5/14/2023 4:36 pm : link
I think he’s still a true #1 WR. If you tell me it’ll cost a 2nd/3rd AND have the Cardinals eat some of the cap hit, he could* be the piece that takes this offense to an elite level.
You are taking a cap hit for what he was - not what he is  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/14/2023 5:05 pm : link
This is a fool's way of managing player personnel.
He’s a great player  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 5/14/2023 5:11 pm : link

And we are still in the bottom third in terms of our WR room but we just don’t have the money. This was never a 1-2 year rebuild. We will continue retooling and rebuilding. Hopefully next year we get a true #1 WR or maybe someone steps up.
It is not happening  
ZogZerg : 5/14/2023 5:20 pm : link
Doesn't matter if you like him or not.
Mike in Boston : 5/14/2023 5:29 pm : link
I don't think anyone really knows about him, one way or the other. He was banged up for his first 3 years, and played last year for a disfunctional offense. I could see him anywhere for our best receiver to being 4th or 5th.

I think his cap  
section125 : 5/14/2023 5:32 pm : link
hit is $14.5 mill 2023. But that is a high number for them vs the cap.
He can still play. Just his number is too high.
We are too far away...  
DefenseWins : 5/14/2023 5:38 pm : link
from being a superbowl contender. If he was the one missing piece, then you do it.
If you think he is still a legitimate  
mfjmfj : 5/14/2023 5:40 pm : link
number one and you think we have a shot in the next two years, you would definitely trade for him - a third for sure and maybe a second. First? not interested. Getting a legit #1 at below market cost (2yrs/$33 vs. FMV is probably 2/$45)is worth a lot. If he plays to expectation and you don't keep him, you could likely still get a comp pick in two years.
the $ slot and draft pick for hopkins went to waller  
Eric on Li : 5/14/2023 5:48 pm : link
hopkins hasn't made much sense for the nyg since then. they made their choice and it's pretty hard to see how they'd have salary slots for both going forward.

i think arizona would be thrilled to swap hopkins for barkley and that's one way to open up a salary slot but i dont think id want to trade a 26 year old captain for another 30+ skill player who if kept would likely cost a chunk more than barkley.
These days,  
DonnieD89 : 5/14/2023 6:02 pm : link
you really want your number one wide receiver to be cost controlled, especially when your quarterback is taking a good chunk out of the salary cap.
Though not a #1 either, don’t forget about Colin Johnson.  
Spider56 : 5/14/2023 6:27 pm : link
He’ll be in the mix for a roster spot too.
RE: A big no from me.  
Toth029 : 5/14/2023 6:36 pm : link
In comment 16116663 Big Blue '56 said:
Can’t throw Waller out of that mix. He’s a big key in our receiving corps..

My opinion is that if there was real smoke, it has wafted away

Yup. Waller is the #1. If he stays healthy, he's going to be very productive in the offense with Kafka.

Wan'Dale also is very shifty and was coming on strong prior to getting hurt.
Campbell is a better player than Slayton  
djm : 5/14/2023 6:59 pm : link
That will flesh out here this coming season.

I’d be fine with Hopkins but don’t want to give up too much for l him. I’d gladly pay him for 2 years or so, but I’m not giving up much, if anything.
No to Hopkins, too old, too expensive.  
Jack Stroud : 5/14/2023 7:27 pm : link
Way too much “talk”  
Dave on the UWS : 5/14/2023 7:35 pm : link
about getting a #1 WR. They HAVE a #1 in Wallet- that’s why they traded for him. He’s not a true TE, Daboll’s offense is flexible about where people line up. We are too rigid on this site about labels. You add Barkley to the receiving “corp” and there’s more than enough weapons for Daboll and Kafka to function. Will they “eventually” need a #1 WR? Yes- Daboll conceded as much. But that may be next year.
RE: I've always been in favor  
knowledgetimmons : 5/14/2023 7:57 pm : link
In comment 16116662 Mike from SI said:
but the BBI consensus is that he's over the hill and not worth the assets we'd need to give up. I disagree.

I agree with you, he’s not that close to over the hill.

Fitzgerald, Bolden, Smith Sr, A. Johnson, Wayne…etc. the all time greats have found the sauce to be legitimate number 1s beyond 30. He’s an all time great as well. If NYG trade for him, and the interest is pretty evident, giants brass believe he’s got multiple seasons left.

As a side note, I hope Barkley proves the league wrong as well, for whomever he ultimately finishes his career with. Notwithstanding the shit birds.
Rod in St Cloud : 5/14/2023 8:01 pm : link
I don't see how they can afford him. Looking to what KC had with an elite TE Kelce and an elite WR Hill who could take the top off, we kind of have that with Waller and Slayton (bad hands) and the new rookie WR Hyatt (good hands). The one thing you notice in our draft is we were taking mostly guys with above average to elite RAS scores. Hopkins does not fit that model.

He gets separation by his ability to trick those CBs defending him. He's a good route runner with great hands. As his speed slows up, he might not be as good at getting separation. Right now, he's fine. Down the road, maybe not so much.

As we all know by now, Schoen is always looking, but I don't think he'd be considering Hopkins as a player helping out down the road. If the price was right though, it could make sense. The trade off would be what draft picks would be losing and how big is the cap cost and for how many years.
stretch234 : 5/14/2023 8:20 pm : link
Waller if healthy is top level TE

Barkley is top level RB

WR - outside of Atlanta in the NFC who are the Giants better than at WR

Waller can certainly elevate the WR group for what he can do. He should also help Barkley in the pass game

2 out of 3 isn’t bad
RE: I've always been in favor  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/14/2023 9:29 pm : link
In comment 16116662 Mike from SI said:
but the BBI consensus is that he's over the hill and not worth the assets we'd need to give up. I disagree.

You don't know the actual assets and IMO the bigger issue is what he does to the cap. You want Hopkins of to re-sign Andrew Thomas and McKinney? WRs are a dime a dozen in the NFL. You need a team built well. This team isn't a Hopkins away from the Super Bowl. But it's easy to say you want player X and ignore f what it wail cost and what the cap effects will be.

Talk like this got us Golloday.
Hopkins looked kinda  
TDMaker85 : 5/15/2023 1:05 am : link
done to me. Would not want to invest huge $ in him at this point.
If Slayton is your #1  
Carl in CT : 5/15/2023 6:14 am : link
Punt the season until next year.
RE: These days,  
Optimus-NY : 5/15/2023 6:34 am : link
In comment 16116713 DonnieD89 said:
you really want your number one wide receiver to be cost controlled, especially when your quarterback is taking a good chunk out of the salary cap.

How many DeAndre Hopkins threads  
Carson53 : 5/15/2023 8:20 am : link
have there been? Geez, enough already.
I wanted him ah i think he's still awesome  
Festina Lente : 5/15/2023 9:16 am : link
But the fact of the matter is it can't happen now. If rather they show up the EDGE with an affordable vet at this point.
Funny that Waller  
RollBlue : 5/15/2023 9:20 am : link
is about the same age, with more of an injury concern, yet most have no problem giving up a third and paying a decent cap hit. Yet the same people think Hopkins is a big risk - doesn't seem to jive...
RE: How many DeAndre Hopkins threads  
mittenedman : 5/15/2023 9:32 am : link
In comment 16116850 Carson53 said:
have there been? Geez, enough already.

What else do you want to talk about? My favorite color?

RE: Hopkins looked kinda  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2023 9:37 am : link
In comment 16116813 TDMaker85 said:
done to me. Would not want to invest huge $ in him at this point.

How? He only played 9 games last season, and only 4 of them with Murray. In those for games - 36/385/3. Over a full season minus 1 game for injury that’s basically right what he’s been doing for years - 144/1540/12.

I realize it won’t go as smoothly as the above but his ability is still very much there. How long it lasts is a fair question but he’s definitely not done.
And even with their backup QBs  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2023 9:38 am : link
he was looking at a 120/1350/5 statline over a full season.
RE: If Slayton is your #1  
eric2425ny : 5/15/2023 10:50 am : link
In comment 16116819 Carl in CT said:
Punt the season until next year.

I view Slayton as more of a #3, possibly #4 when Robinson is back. Hyatt, Robinson, and Hodgins are above him in my opinion. They’ll bring Hyatt along slowly, but it won’t be long before he surpasses Slayton on the depth chart.

They signed Campbell as well who has plenty of potential, but has the injury history.

In terms of #1, 2, 3, 4, etc. with this offense though I’m not sure how much it matters. They rotate players all over the place and the game still revolves around Jones’ rushing ability. It’s not what I would consider to be a traditional offense with a clear cut WR depth chart.
If Waller is not an inline TE, I keep wondering what the lineup will  
Ivan15 : 5/15/2023 11:06 am : link
Look like. Is it Waller in the slot and 3 WRs?
To get the best receivers on the field, are we going to see Waller and one of the WRs in the double slot? Waller could play outside but that eliminates much of his mismatch advantage.
Except for Slayton and Hodgins, slot may be the best position for the other Giants WRs, including Hyatt (and Robinson and Shepard when active).
stretch234 : 5/15/2023 12:04 pm : link
He is not an inline TE - you line him up like the Chiefs do with Kelce - a yard or 2 off the LOS. LB don't even try to hit Kelce - do the same thing with Waller ....

you have a QB who can move and a TE who is hard to handle on the move. Thankfully, this coaching staff knows how to use that and not have the TE do curl routes

Bellinger, Cager, Hudson, Vannett, Myarick had 64 catches

The question is they had 346 completions last year

TE - 64
RB - 82
WR - 200

What is the number this year and where is the production breakdown
It's fair to wonder if they've improved enough at WR.  
mittenedman : 5/15/2023 12:04 pm : link
Adding Campbell & Hyatt to the mix helps. I still think every WR is punching above their weight class.

For those saying Waller is the #1, I'd challenge that. He can be the #1 option, but I'm talking about a #1 WR.

Having Waller's great, but what you really want is a #1 WR paired with the great TE. That's what they were at least interested in doing in the draft. There's a reason a #1 WR is high on the wish list.

If the Giants had a dominant WR (deep), Waller (intermediate) and Barkley (short), they'd have a complete offense that can move the ball on anyone. Right now, if you're being objective, they are still missing that commanding presence at WR. Teams can double Waller and key Barkley and still not really worry about that 3rd element.

Maybe - maybe - Hyatt can be that guy. I really like him.
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