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Can Daboll break the recent 2nd season curse?

simgiant : 5/15/2023 9:50 am
2016 11-5 McAdoo - lots of optimism around the season
2017 3-13 McAdoo - fired
2018 5-11 Shurmur - not a lot of optimism
2019 4-12 Shurmur - fired
2020 6-10 Judge - lot of optimism around this season
2021 4-13 Judge - fired
2022 9-7 Daboll - one playoff win - Daboll coach of the year

Our previous 3 coaches have been fired after or during the second season.
Daboll has had the best first season of any of these coaches any chance he collapses in the second season?
You guys feel we are in a much better place now because Schoen?
you spelled...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/15/2023 9:53 am : link
...blessing wrong.
It is not just here there are tons of examples of coaches  
Essex : 5/15/2023 10:09 am : link
who had overachieved their first year (much better than McAdoo and Judge) and have had miserable second years. Nagy in Chicago comes right to mind. He unexpectedly went 12-4 his first year and was the toast of the town. By the end of year 2, they wanted him out.

John Mara's quote about going from Bono to Bozo is probably one of the best sports quotes of all time--because it is so true.
I doubt Daboll will be fired but there is a good chance that the  
Ivan15 : 5/15/2023 10:10 am : link
Second season trend of having fewer wins will continue.

For the record, McAdoo had a better first season record than Daboll, but McAdoo lost the team in his second year. That won’t happen to Daboll.
There seems to be major differences  
George from PA : 5/15/2023 10:27 am : link
McAdoo relied on defense and Shummer relied on offense....not balanced.

Judge portrayed one big unified family which wasn't true. The video of everyone having fun in the mud, gave everyone the wrong impression.

Daboll approach seems balance....both sides of the ball are improving. The staff and personnel depth are in lock step....not just for the cameras.

Now, even if that is all true...

Last year's success weiged heavily on a very easy schedule.....which is not the case this year....so even if everything is improving.....it might not show in record....

How they handle adversity will determine their fate....


If Daboll starts acting and coaching like Judge in year 2 he should be  
PatersonPlank : 5/15/2023 10:29 am : link
fired too
Recent Curse  
NJLCO : 5/15/2023 10:31 am : link
Seems like it’s a 12 year curse period! I doubt Daboll will ever be a problem.
Let’s start looking forward and leave the past where it belongs.
Schedule  
Hilary : 5/15/2023 10:32 am : link
9 games definite dog/
Phily x 2
Boys x 2
SF
Seahawks
Miami
Bills
Jets

Record may be worse than last year
but JS and Daboll are in this together
They will prepare for24 together
All signs point to  
BSIMatt : 5/15/2023 10:47 am : link
Yes.
RE: All signs point to  
Big Blue '56 : 5/15/2023 10:52 am : link
In comment 16116963 BSIMatt said:
Quote:
Yes.


I see what you did there
.......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 5/15/2023 11:07 am : link
I think it's likely that they'll be a better team with a worse record, the main reason being just how much they overachieved last season (so many late game finishes that statistically bounce back the other way)

Optimism for Judge shows you just how bad it's been. That was not a good season, but we were all excited none the less :)
RE: .......  
Essex : 5/15/2023 11:11 am : link
In comment 16116978 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:
I think it's likely that they'll be a better team with a worse record, the main reason being just how much they overachieved last season (so many late game finishes that statistically bounce back the other way)

Optimism for Judge shows you just how bad it's been. That was not a good season, but we were all excited none the less :)


If you came on this site between Year 1 and 2 of Joe Judge and said a bad word about him you would be destroyed. The funny thing about Judge was that yeah he had a bad roster, but his whole claim to fame was playing a bit more competitive games during the season and even that kind of went away toward the end of year one as we got blown out by Arizona and Baltimore and barely beat a historically bad Cincy team down the stretch. Joe Judge stunk in both years to be frank. 6-10 and played some close games before he didn't in the worst division in football history was a bad season.
I'm fairly confident  
Matt in SGS : 5/15/2023 11:12 am : link
we won't have a repeat of the McAdoo slicking his hair back in Year 2 mistake with Daboll.
I keep going back to  
djm : 5/15/2023 11:23 am : link
early last season, game 1 at Tenn when at some point the Giants faced a second and/or third and kind of short, let's say 4 yards or so, and the Giants gained the first down and made it look easy. Jones with a little wiggle out of bounds, or maybe it was a little screen or slant play--whatever it was, they made something look easy that the previous regimes treated like the splitting of an atom. They finally used Jones and weren't scared to use Jones. WTF did you draft the guy for if you aren't going to let him sneak for 5 on 3rd and 4.

I keep going back to how we steal yards and make it look relatively easy. That's what gives me hope for 23 and beyond.
He isn’t getting fired no matter what  
UConn4523 : 5/15/2023 11:26 am : link
the question is whether he makes or misses the playoffs
I know some consider it a dirty word...  
Klaatu : 5/15/2023 11:27 am : link
But I think we're in a better place because of the culture that Schoen and Daboll have fostered from the very beginning. I think they'll be able to weather any storms better than we've seen in recent years.
Who knows with the schedule  
RollBlue : 5/15/2023 11:46 am : link
last year at this time everyone had Tenn, GB and Baltimore as definite losses, then in mid October, Lions at home as a probably win.

Last years team was DECIMATED with injuries. If they can get just a little lucky on that front........
Why did McAdoo, Shurmur and Judge fail? What is different with Daboll?  
Ivan15 : 5/15/2023 12:04 pm : link
McAdoo inherited a pretty good core of coaches from Coughlin and a pretty good team from Reese. But McAdoo was not a leader and things fell apart in the second year. Reese was a competent GM operating in desperation mode.
Because he was hired so late, Shurmur got stuck with a bad coaching staff, but the team was also decimated by too many bad free agency and salary cap-driven moves by DG, who also was a problem for a new coach. With a new offense, new defense, and some good draft picks, the first season was okay but Shurmur’s lack of leadership and no help coming from DG, the second season was not good.
Judge’s failure was completely different. He was a con man. He tried to hire teachers as coaches but many came from his college connections and weren’t qualified to coach professionals. He was still stuck with DG but he managed to bluff his way through the first season. The con was exposed in the second season and Judge didn’t lose the team. He just lost his mind.
Daboll is different. He loves football and the challenges of coaching. He loves his players and can lead them as it becomes his team. He also has Schoen who wants to build a consistent winner through the draft and strategic moves in free agency. Neither has an ego or legacy they need to protect yet.
I don't expect a meltdown  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/15/2023 1:23 pm : link
BD showed good leadership skills throughout the season imv. The next big step is making progress and more importantly advancing over the next 2-3 years.

Been a fan long enough that getting to the playoffs and not advancing enough can turn things negatively relatively quickly.
From all reports,  
an_idol_mind : 5/15/2023 2:09 pm : link
the culture problems with McAdoo and Judge began in their first year (Shurmur just never gave a reason to hope for anything better). The public got glimpses of issues with Judge in his conflict with Colombo, but ignored it because we wanted to believe he was going to fix the team.

If Daboll goes the way of McAdoo or Judge, we probably won't hear about problems that are here now until well after the fact. But he does currently seem to have installed a good culture.

The 2022 Giants did go through a number of good situations to help build a culture: early success to get players on board with Daboll, some mid-season adversity, a strong push for the playoffs, and then a postseason win. McAdoo's first year never really saw much in the way of adversity, and Judge went something like 1-7 to start with, so he never proved to players that his demanding system could produce wins.
Well it was all about clothing to me.  
Blue21 : 5/15/2023 2:24 pm : link
I jumped off the McAdoo ship the minute he showed up on that first day in his introduction oversized suit. I jumped off the Judge ship when he showed up in the clown suit. I don't see Daboll doing that.
RE: I'm fairly confident  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/15/2023 2:30 pm : link
In comment 16116984 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
we won't have a repeat of the McAdoo slicking his hair back in Year 2 mistake with Daboll.

When the beard got clipped down to a goatee last year, it seemed like it might happen.
I think so, but like others have said, the schedule and  
barens : 5/15/2023 2:43 pm : link
division they are in is daunting to say the least. Right now, Philly and Dallas might be the 2 best teams in the NFC, so it's not a great way to start.

If the offense line looks better, especially Neal, then consider the 2ns season curse broken.
What's different about Daboll?  
nygiantfan : 5/15/2023 2:45 pm : link
Daboll has Schoen and not Gettleman. I am sure there are other valid points why Daboll may have better success, but this is a big one.
Had this discussion with  
Gman11 : 5/15/2023 2:46 pm : link
another Giants fan recently. It wasn't really "can Daboll get fired." Rather, it was more did they play over their heads last year and come back down to earth this year?

I think it's possible, but unless major players like Jones, Lawrence, Jackson, etc. get injured I think they can exceed last year's win total which, two years ago, would have been laughable.
Even if we have a bad season which I dont expect  
Rudy5757 : 5/15/2023 2:56 pm : link
I highly doubt that Schoen would cut bait so quickly. Its about building a foundation which we started last season. We may not have the same type of success this yearbut barring a complete disaster like 1-2 wins I think this team will be competitive.

My personal belief is that this team will go as far as the OL will take us this year. If we have a similar performance on the OL this year as we did last year we wont make the playoffs. I think teams will be attacking Neal early and often and if he struggles that will be hard to overcome. On paper this is a much better team with very few players lost and better quality brought in. The OL is where this team will define its fate imo.
He was coach of the year  
CasualFan : 5/15/2023 6:18 pm : link
and you want to throw shade on him. New administration and they look like they know what they are doing.Sit back, smile and enjoy the ride.You can do a post-mortem after the season ends.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/15/2023 6:57 pm : link
Unless Dabs bangs Mara's wife on the 50 yard line while simultaneously losing 77-0 to the Commanders, he's going nowhere anytime soon.

After McAdoo, Shurmur, & Judge...I sense Dabs will get a long leash. And why shouldn't he? He's proven to be a damn good coach.
RE: ...  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/15/2023 7:41 pm : link
In comment 16117297 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Unless Dabs bangs Mara's wife on the 50 yard line while simultaneously losing 77-0 to the Commanders, he's going nowhere anytime soon.

After McAdoo, Shurmur, & Judge...I sense Dabs will get a long leash. And why shouldn't he? He's proven to be a damn good coach.


I believed Mara when he said he hates all the changes he has had to make. He has talked about patience before though.

Giants get off to a really poor start you will see some pointing fingers at him on BBI. It's just how it is with this franchise.
LOS.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/15/2023 7:45 pm : link
As I've said before, I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if we took a step back record wise this fall while being a more talented team. The schedule is tougher, we won't be sneaking up on teams, etc, etc...

Look @ Beane-McDermott in Buffalo. The Bills stunned the NFL world making the postseason their first season there. 2nd season? A step back & missed the postseason. But since then, Buffalo has won 10 plus games for 4 straight seasons. If given that option with Joe & Dabs, sign me up right now. Just throw in a Lombardi too, something Buffalo hasn't yet won with the Beane-McDermott tandem.
RE: He isn’t getting fired no matter what  
KeoweeFan : 5/15/2023 7:59 pm : link
In comment 16117001 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
the question is whether he makes or misses the playoffs

My expectation is the same as it was last year: be competitive in most games so they are enjoyable to watch. Of course they exceeded expectations in 2022.
Word around here  
Blueworm : 5/15/2023 8:21 pm : link
Is that they could improve, but have a poorer record.

I'd really like to see them improve their division record.
I think so  
mattlawson : 5/15/2023 10:36 pm : link
I’m confident in the coaching staff
Never say Never. Ask Coach Gallant of the NY Rangers  
kinard : 5/15/2023 10:50 pm : link
Like John Mara said: Don't go from Bono to Bozo
McAdoo was a moron  
LauderdaleMatty : 5/15/2023 11:22 pm : link
Spags and the D carried the team. He literally called slant plays for OBJ and that made him some offensive guru around here. Thst and he like Mahommes

He still had some fans whom wanted to say he was awesome. Really helpe Carolina. Talk about the Mara's fucking meddling. They forced him into the OC spot then over promoted him. Oh if they had let him go to Philly we wouldn't get the daily Howie Roseman is the best GM ever daily posts. That season was one of the biggest mirages in history.
Giants won't sneak up on anyone this year  
George : 5/16/2023 1:24 am : link
and that schedule... woof.

I think they'll be a better team this year with a stronger roster, but that they won't win as many games in 2023 as they did in 2022.
Tape  
monstercoo : 5/16/2023 4:26 am : link
Once teams have tape on what your team does and what’s successful against you, it becomes a lot harder to win. It’ll be fun to see if Daboll and crew can continue to evolve and adapt.

The strength of the schedule looks tough, but that usually changes after the first few weeks of the season.
well  
Wildcardgiants : 5/16/2023 8:11 am : link
There's no curse... just good or bad coaching.
The proper analysis is NOT: why Daboll is DIFFERENT from the  
Marty in Albany : 5/16/2023 8:27 am : link
coaches who failed, but why is Daboll SIMILAR to the coaches who have succeeded. Namely, Tom Coughlin.

Did "Major" Tom start on a high note? No! Some players outright hated him, the rest merely mistrusted him. People forget about this because Coughlin was around for so long.

Coughlin was a man of character, not a phoney. He made it plain to the players what he wanted them to do and what he expected from them. He was strict: fining players who showed up less than five minutes EARLY for meetings, etc. And he did things his way, "green zone" instead of "red zone" and "Will" LBs became "Sam" LBs.

But, hidden beneath this seeming tyrant, was a man who cared about the players and treated them like real people. Perhaps most importantly he adapted to their needs. He set up committees so the players could more easily voice their complaints and suggestions to him. Eventually, he gained their trust and then they began to understand why he was so strict.

IMO, if Daboll is to succeed, he needs to be more like Tom Coughlin than the other head coaches were. I think Daboll is making a good start at it.
RE: There seems to be major differences  
Pepe LePugh : 5/16/2023 9:22 am : link
In comment [url=index.php?mode=2&thread=634948&show_all=1#16116942
Now, even if that is all true...

Last year's success weiged heavily on a very easy schedule.....which is not the case this year....so even if everything is improving.....it might not show in record....
[/quote]
Why do people think we had an easy schedule? It’s not true.
We had three relatively easy games. But we had five against teams with 12 or more wins. The remainder were teams that ended up between 7-10 and 10-7.
Nine games against winning teams, six against losing teams, two vs .500 Washington.
Opponents SOS .526.
I do think the schedule will be tougher, but can we please get past the myth that last season was easy?
Daboll Will Break The Curse  
BlueVinnie : 5/16/2023 9:44 am : link
in that he won't be fired. However, I do expect that the team will have less than 9 wins this year.
The main thing that makes me think so  
Vanzetti : 5/16/2023 11:49 pm : link
is that he went into Minny and won a playoff game.

Giants were a little lucky in regular season. They never really dominated in regular season against any opponent. That usually suggests a fall back to reality.

But the playoff victory was significant.
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