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NFT: Rays at Mets Game 1. Verlander

ZGiants98 : 5/16/2023 6:26 pm
Mets Lineup

Nimmo CF
Lindor SS
McNeil 2B
Alonso 1B
Pham DH
Marte RF
Baty 3B
Canha LF
Alvarez C
-
Verlander P

Rays Lineup

Ramirez 1B
Franco SS
B. Lowe 2B
Arozarena LF
Paredes 3B
J. Lowe DH
Margot RF
Bethancourt C
Siri CF

Beeks SP

We are facing another lefty. Yuck. David Peterson down. Josh Walker up (added to 40). Verlander's home debut. LGM!
More notes...  
ZGiants98 : 5/16/2023 6:32 pm : link
-Carrasco will start Friday
-Quintana could ramp up big time if his CT scan goes well Friday
-Narvaez expected to start rehab assignment at some point next week
have a good feeling about Walker  
KDavies : 5/16/2023 6:46 pm : link
28, but wouldn’t be surprised if he took this opportunity and ran with it. Plenty of room to establish himself in this bullpen
narvaez back should be a boost but they need to keep alvarez in mix  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 6:54 pm : link
his defense has graded out really well so far. 90th percentile framing that has been good for +2 runs. +2 blocks above average. 65th percentile pop time. hasn't done great in the running game (1/6) but has shown that he has a good arm. a 2:1 with him and narvaez should be really good.
some vientos reading  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 6:58 pm : link
Quote:
Ryan Finkelstein
@FinkelsteinRyan
Just wrote a deep dive on Mark Vientos for @JustBB_Media that will go up tomorrow, but here is the biggest thing I found.

Last year, Vientos struggled against breaking balls, leading to a high K rate and his bad splits against right-handed pitching.

That is no longer an issue🧵


Reply to @FinkelsteinRyan @JustBB_Media
FinkelsteinRyan's avatar
Ryan Finkelstein @FinkelsteinRyan

Against breaking balls in 2022 Vientos hit .150/.209/.242 with a 37.2% strikeout rate.

This year, he's hitting .265/.357/.471 with a 21.4% K rate against breaking balls. Walk rate against breaking balls has gone from 6.2% up to 14.3%.

FinkelsteinRyan's avatar
Ryan Finkelstein @FinkelsteinRyan

By identifying and laying off breaking balls, Vientos isn't getting himself out and is forcing pitchers to attack him with fastballs more. This has led to the video game numbers he is posting in Triple-A.

Last year, Vientos saw fastballs 40% of the time and now it is up to 48%.

FinkelsteinRyan's avatar
Ryan Finkelstein @FinkelsteinRyan
7m
What is he doing with those fastballs?

2022: .302/.408/.562, 11 HR in 201 PA
2023: .377/.462/.844 10 HR in 91 PA

Vientos is on pace for 45 home runs if he got 600 plate appearances this year.

I believe he is the best home run hitter on the 40-man roster not named Pete Alonso.

FinkelsteinRyan's avatar
Ryan Finkelstein @FinkelsteinRyan
The Mets cannot justify rostering and giving at-bats to the likes of Tommy Pham and Eduardo Escobar over Vientos at this point.

While the fit is clunky, Vientos needs to be seeing time and should honestly be the everyday DH.

If that even means trading Vogelbach so be it.


i dont know why they'd need to trade vogelbach just limit him to 1-2 starts per week until he starts showing more power. he will probably get PH work late game almost every game against righty relievers.
another day with rbis and big exit velocities from mauricio + vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 7:41 pm : link
mauricio - 2/3 with 3 rbis, a 110 mph single
vientos - 1/3 with 1 rbie, 1 110.7 mph single, 109mph lineout

4/9 of the mets starting lineup hasn't hit a ball 110.7 all year.
RE: another day with rbis and big exit velocities from mauricio + vientos  
Optimus-NY : 5/16/2023 7:46 pm : link
In comment 16117943 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
mauricio - 2/3 with 3 rbis, a 110 mph single
vientos - 1/3 with 1 rbie, 1 110.7 mph single, 109mph lineout

4/9 of the mets starting lineup hasn't hit a ball 110.7 all year.


Eppler and Buck are so damned stubborn man. I guess they figure that if they move Vientos up it's just another sign that they're bailing on the season and admitting the off-season was a failure. How else can we explain this?
the 110.7mph single was against an 80 mph change up from dillon tate  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 7:49 pm : link
the o's righty reliever who owns a career 3.97 era in about 200 career mlb innings is on a rehab assignment.
RE: RE: another day with rbis and big exit velocities from mauricio + vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 7:59 pm : link
In comment 16117945 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16117943 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


mauricio - 2/3 with 3 rbis, a 110 mph single
vientos - 1/3 with 1 rbie, 1 110.7 mph single, 109mph lineout

4/9 of the mets starting lineup hasn't hit a ball 110.7 all year.



Eppler and Buck are so damned stubborn man. I guess they figure that if they move Vientos up it's just another sign that they're bailing on the season and admitting the off-season was a failure. How else can we explain this?


i think they honestly arent ready to give up on pham, mehscobar, and vogelbach.

vogelbach is limited but realistically not a DFA candidate. he can be a contributor and would actually be a decent weapon off the bench vs righty relievers.

mehscobar is their main insurance at 3b, position versatile, and "good in the clubhouse".

pham has hit the ball hard, has good underlying #'s, and is OF depth where they are thin.

individually each is a justifiable keep but there's an easy way to get creative here. which is to just drop down 1 pitcher. do they need 4 of brigham, hunter, leone, nogosek, and walker all active each game? let a couple of them ride the merry go round once carrasco returns.

if they have to dump one of the vets pham is the easiest to cut bait with. i suspect that's why they've given him 7 starts so far this month. he is riding an 0-18 in his last 5 of them. i know he has hit the ball hard but at some point i think we need to just cut bait. the guy replacing him can also hit the ball hard and go 0-18.
meanwhile 1 hit in 3 innings so far of a bullpen game  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 8:07 pm : link
and 0 contact above 99 mph. just 2 hard hit balls so far.
The Mets are digging a very big hole for themselves early this season  
Ira : 5/16/2023 8:12 pm : link
.
The ship....  
dannysection 313 : 5/16/2023 8:19 pm : link
Be sinking...

Just ugly and they look like they don't really care, going through the motions.

So 5 under after the sweep by the Rays, with the 78 million dollar pay-roll.

Unwatchable....

Vientos with another  
ZGiants98 : 5/16/2023 8:25 pm : link
bomb.
Kumar Rocker having TJ surgery  
Vanzetti : 5/16/2023 8:26 pm : link
At least, Mets avoided that pitfall.
Jesus this season has been hard enough. Can we stop with the  
Rob in Rockaway : 5/16/2023 8:26 pm : link
ridiculous nicknames already? How old are you guys???
Team stinks  
Sammo85 : 5/16/2023 8:32 pm : link
If Verlander is going to struggle to find strike zone every other start he’s not going to make it through summer even missing a whole month to start.

They need to shake up roster a bit and retool the entire bench if they have to as it’s only punching ticket they have this early.

The locker room seems too comfortable too. Losing? Oh well.
RE: RE: RE: another day with rbis and big exit velocities from mauricio + vientos  
Sammo85 : 5/16/2023 8:33 pm : link
In comment 16117958 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16117945 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


In comment 16117943 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


mauricio - 2/3 with 3 rbis, a 110 mph single
vientos - 1/3 with 1 rbie, 1 110.7 mph single, 109mph lineout

4/9 of the mets starting lineup hasn't hit a ball 110.7 all year.



Eppler and Buck are so damned stubborn man. I guess they figure that if they move Vientos up it's just another sign that they're bailing on the season and admitting the off-season was a failure. How else can we explain this?



i think they honestly arent ready to give up on pham, mehscobar, and vogelbach.

vogelbach is limited but realistically not a DFA candidate. he can be a contributor and would actually be a decent weapon off the bench vs righty relievers.

mehscobar is their main insurance at 3b, position versatile, and "good in the clubhouse".

pham has hit the ball hard, has good underlying #'s, and is OF depth where they are thin.

individually each is a justifiable keep but there's an easy way to get creative here. which is to just drop down 1 pitcher. do they need 4 of brigham, hunter, leone, nogosek, and walker all active each game? let a couple of them ride the merry go round once carrasco returns.

if they have to dump one of the vets pham is the easiest to cut bait with. i suspect that's why they've given him 7 starts so far this month. he is riding an 0-18 in his last 5 of them. i know he has hit the ball hard but at some point i think we need to just cut bait. the guy replacing him can also hit the ball
hard and go 0-18.


Pham at least can play outfield. Vogelbach has zero value on a competitive major league roster.

Eppler is just not cut out for his job.
3 batted balls over 107 tonight for vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 8:47 pm : link
Quote:
Joe DeMayo @PSLToFlushing
12m
Mark Vientos hit his 13th home run of the season tonight

107.2 MPH off the bat and 411 feet. He is hitting .336 with a 1.111 OPS

I simply can’t give you a good reason why he’s not in Queens right now


if he's not in the lineup tomorrow in NY it's shameful. no other word for it. no reason for it except stubbornness. either throw 1 of the AAAA relievers arms off tonight and then clear the spot or dfa pham. he got a fair shot over 80 plate appearances. he didnt produce enough and at 35 he's not a good enough player to carry waiting for him to get over .200.
https://twitter.com/PSLToFlushing/status/1658631246488936449 - ( New Window )
DL someone with phantom injury  
spike : 5/16/2023 9:02 pm : link
and bring up Vientos!
RE: More notes...  
Earl the goat : 5/16/2023 9:06 pm : link
In comment 16117906 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
-Carrasco will start Friday
-Quintana could ramp up big time if his CT scan goes well Friday
-Narvaez expected to start rehab assignment at some point next week




ZGiants. No pitching. I told you weeks ago. Team in big trouble
Fire Eppler. Buck. Bring up Mauricio and Vientos
This team is listless.  
Optimus-NY : 5/16/2023 9:07 pm : link
It's like watching the Walking Dead out there. Go sign Kenny Powers or something, lol.

RE: 3 batted balls over 107 tonight for vientos  
GF1080 : 5/16/2023 9:08 pm : link
In comment 16118023 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


Quote:


Joe DeMayo @PSLToFlushing
12m
Mark Vientos hit his 13th home run of the season tonight

107.2 MPH off the bat and 411 feet. He is hitting .336 with a 1.111 OPS

I simply can’t give you a good reason why he’s not in Queens right now



if he's not in the lineup tomorrow in NY it's shameful. no other word for it. no reason for it except stubbornness. either throw 1 of the AAAA relievers arms off tonight and then clear the spot or dfa pham. he got a fair shot over 80 plate appearances. he didnt produce enough and at 35 he's not a good enough player to carry waiting for him to get over .200. https://twitter.com/PSLToFlushing/status/1658631246488936449 - ( New Window )


His markers haven't been hit yet. Needs 40 HRs.
The team is dead  
spike : 5/16/2023 9:09 pm : link
the moment Trumpets hurt himself in WBC
these home run things seem good  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 9:09 pm : link
they should do more of that.
What's eating Drew Smith?  
Optimus-NY : 5/16/2023 9:37 pm : link
Smack 'em Franckie!
i was about to predict that escobar homer  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 9:57 pm : link
pls buck let him continue thriving in a part time role. if he can play a corner there is no need for pham.
Welp  
moespree : 5/16/2023 10:07 pm : link
Another game where the starter gives up 5 or more and has 80 pitches by the 4th inning.

Not going to win a thing with pitching like that.

Biggest problem in my mind is the team looks dead. Lifeless, no emotion. Going through the motions of a game.
Eric, at this point  
Shecky : 5/16/2023 10:09 pm : link
You’ve found your very own Plawecki ;)
RE: Eric, at this point  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 10:15 pm : link
In comment 16118089 Shecky said:
Quote:
You’ve found your very own Plawecki ;)


at this point i think im way more off the rails than that. im checking if his hits are coming off breaking balls or fastballs for gods sake.
switching topics to  
Rory : 5/16/2023 10:44 pm : link
Rays.

Does this team have it in the to go the distance. Will be interesting to see what they do at the deadline could see them getting a Vet SP.

RE: Eric, at this point  
Vanzetti : 5/16/2023 10:55 pm : link
In comment 16118089 Shecky said:
Quote:
You’ve found your very own Plawecki ;)



lol

Mark Vientos  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 8:14 am : link
Promoted
Let’s goooo!!!  
Beezer : 5/17/2023 8:27 am : link
.
RE: Mark Vientos  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2023 8:27 am : link
In comment 16118172 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Promoted

Seems like they're rushing the kid.
RE: RE: Mark Vientos  
CooperDash : 5/17/2023 8:40 am : link
In comment 16118176 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16118172 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Promoted


Seems like they're rushing the kid.


LOL
RE: Mark Vientos  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 8:52 am : link
In comment 16118172 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Promoted


Awesome news! Get him up while he's hot and see if it continues.

Any word on any corresponding move?
RE: RE: Mark Vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 9:24 am : link
In comment 16118201 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 16118172 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Promoted



Awesome news! Get him up while he's hot and see if it continues.

Any word on any corresponding move?


haven't seen one but they've been playing pham a lot,
he is 0- for a week+,
escobar homered last night as a righty PH'er,
locastro is playing again in AAA,
and they signed a veteran righty power bat in AAA a week ago.

so add all that up and i think they have prepared themselves for a pham departure.
Alonso vs. Vientos comparison  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 9:27 am : link
age 22 season:

Vientos (AAA) numbers: 101 games, 24 HR, 72 RBI, .877 OPS
Alonso (A+,AA) numbers: 93 games, 18 HR, 63 RBI, .883 OPS

age 23 season:

Vientos (AAA): 38 games, 13 HR, 37 RBI, 1.104 OPS
Alonso (AA/AAA): 132 games, 36 HR, 119 RBI, .975 OPS

Vientos in 132 games this season is on pace for 45 HR and 128 RBI

Vientos has arguably been the better minor league player. While Alonso was in college, Vientos was learning on the job in the minors, so I don't count the prior seasons for as much. (We saw the same early struggles with Nimmo for example)

Not saying Vientos will be an Alonso like hitter in the majors, but if he can come even close, it's exciting stuff.

Pham is my first guess as well  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 9:33 am : link
maybe they DL him or someone else.

He's redundant as a RH DH to Vientos. Vogey still has value as a LH PH. His OBP ability has value as well.

Only issue is OF depth, though with Marte, Nimmo, Canha, and McNeil.

For the life of me, I will not understand why Mauricio isn't getting playing time in the OF. Obviously, if there is an OF injury, you move McNeil to the OF and bring up Mauricio, but would be nice to have the added versatility. If one of the 4 guys above is injured, who is your 4th OF? That instance may prevent them from bringing up a Mauricio and going with a Cedrola or Locastro
so now that he's up what's a realistic expectation?  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 10:01 am : link
as a believer here's what ill guess - assuming they give him a good run of playing time (5 starts per week) i think in a month he wont be the worst hitter of the 3 young guys. both have hovered around 700-750 ops, and that's basically exactly what steamer projects too, but with better power (200 iso). sort of like austin riley when he was a rookie (and i think it's a better bet he's better than that than worse).

last year in sporadic playing time and 24 BBE his exit velocity was 2 mph harder (93.2mph) than the 2nd place guy on the mets, which happened to be baty (30 events, 91.1 mph). the rest of their contact quality was similar across the board, though baty hit better and k'd less. a year later and playing more baty has adjusted well and is making even better contact. he is up to 92.2mph and his hard hit % is up by 50% compared to last year. walk rate also double.

vientos probably wont hit for the average baty as quickly as he has but i think he will eventually get above .250 because he has been above .280 his whole upper minors career. he is the best home run hitter the mets have had in the minor leaguers including Alonso. he hits homers a lot of different ways, and a lot of them are big boy home runs to center and the opposite way. he's had seasons mashing lefties (2022) and righties (2021, 2023). he had one of the highest exit velocities in spring training against and the mets deployed him against tougher comp, 2 of his homers this month were against MLB pitchers on rehab assignments, and i think he probably has more contact over 100 mph than any player in MLB this year. it shouldnt take him very long to be 3rd on the team in homers behind alonso/lindor the question will be how well he can control his k/walk/contact rates. he did pretty well in his brief call up last year with a 12% walk rate and a 29% k-rate, so if that's the floor and the improvements he's shown this year are sticky there may not be a very long adjustment period. alonso hit .260 his last season in the minors at vegas and hit exactly .260 the next year in mlb as a rookie with a 10% walk rate and 26.4% k-rate.

a 700-800 ops is the reasonable guess, if you want an unreasonable one they are promoting a player a full year younger than alonso but also twice as accomplished in the upper minors with better production across the board and similar crazy exit velocities. alonso ops'd 941 as a rookie, his only big league year with a 900+ ops. jeff mcneil got called up in july of 2018 hitting .368 in vegas and he hit .329 the rest of the way for the mets finishing 6th in ROY voting (850 ops). vientos is the most productive met prospect called up since mcneil/alonso. so the upside is as high as a dh call up can get.
They can just send LG to AAA  
ZGiants98 : 5/17/2023 10:02 am : link
He has an option. Escobar becomes the backup infielder.

Would love for them to dump Pham though.
If it's Pham  
dannysection 313 : 5/17/2023 10:03 am : link
And they DFA him, it's on Eppler, and if you're Steve Cohen, you cannot be happy that 6 million was simply thrown away for Pham.

Perhaps he has a mysterious injury and goes to IL, but Pham is not going to Syracuse.

Not sure of the utility of making Eppler the fall guy in May, but some of his moves have been expensive and bad...not a good combination.

Uncle Stevie cannot be happy seeing a Tampa team with a 78 million (or whatever it is exactly) pay roll beat up on your 340 million dollar toy.

Vientos needs to start at DH every day  
ZGiants98 : 5/17/2023 10:07 am : link
So does Alvarez at catcher when Narvaez returns.

Let’s hope they do the right thing and don’t platoon these guys.
RE: Alonso vs. Vientos comparison  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 10:07 am : link
In comment 16118222 KDavies said:
Quote:
age 22 season:

Vientos (AAA) numbers: 101 games, 24 HR, 72 RBI, .877 OPS
Alonso (A+,AA) numbers: 93 games, 18 HR, 63 RBI, .883 OPS

age 23 season:

Vientos (AAA): 38 games, 13 HR, 37 RBI, 1.104 OPS
Alonso (AA/AAA): 132 games, 36 HR, 119 RBI, .975 OPS

Vientos in 132 games this season is on pace for 45 HR and 128 RBI

Vientos has arguably been the better minor league player. While Alonso was in college, Vientos was learning on the job in the minors, so I don't count the prior seasons for as much. (We saw the same early struggles with Nimmo for example)

Not saying Vientos will be an Alonso like hitter in the majors, but if he can come even close, it's exciting stuff.


this has been my point for 2+ years. if you look at the BA, walk rates, k-rates it's even more compelling. pete was .260 in vegas with an 11% walk rate and 26% k-rate (if you remember back to 2018 the reason he supposedly didnt get called up was because he was expanding his strike zone too much). he ended up k'ing slightly more than that in the big leagues and still won roy.

vientos was 29% k-rate last year and this year it's 20%. last year he walked 10%, this year he's 11%. this year he's hitting .333 last year he hit .280.

betting on a ROY/50 home run type season is beyond a long shot but for 99% of call ups it's not even a remote possibility. for vientos it is.
RE: Vientos needs to start at DH every day  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 10:11 am : link
In comment 16118274 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
So does Alvarez at catcher when Narvaez returns.

Let’s hope they do the right thing and don’t platoon these guys.


all catchers platoon to some degree so with alvarez im not as concerned. narvaez should get the short end to start but if he hits better closer to 50-50 is fine. remember alvarez is probably going to exceed any amount of playing time he's ever played before this year. last year he had the ankle issue late in the year after catching 700 innings which was almost double his previous high.

this year he's at 220 innings at the 25% mark so he's pacing to exceed that by almost 200 innings.
Tampa has been the best team in baseball  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 10:11 am : link
the bigger concern is losing to the Reds, Rockies, Tigers, and Nationals as much as they have.

Alonso's rookie season he had 53 HRs. Vientos is up at a younger age, but was on a higher HR pace than Alonso at their age 23 season. I certainly don't expect him to hit at that pace, but as was posted (I believe by Eric) the other day, Vientos has been doing much better with the breaking stuff and laying off it. If he plays in 81 games (half a season), I don't think .250 and 12-15 HR is unrealistic
this is a pretty bonkers stat line relative to it being a22/23 seasons  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 10:29 am : link
Quote:
Syracuse Mets @SyracuseMets
Mark Vientos with the Syracuse Mets:
40 HR
113 RBI
.294 BA
.942 OPS
150 games


if his game translates he is exactly the kind of masher this lineup needs.
RE: this is a pretty bonkers stat line relative to it being a22/23 seasons  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 10:37 am : link
In comment 16118285 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


Quote:


Syracuse Mets @SyracuseMets
Mark Vientos with the Syracuse Mets:
40 HR
113 RBI
.294 BA
.942 OPS
150 games



if his game translates he is exactly the kind of masher this lineup needs.


I have tempered expectations this year, but very excited as to what next year will bring for him. Look at Alonso's rookie season. Not crazy to think he could approach that, with a bit less power. Don't expect 53 HRs from anyone, even players who have done it before. But not crazy to think he goes for 30-35 HR next year, with the possibility for more.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 10:42 am : link
Mets release Brad Malm and Justin Guerrera

AAA
Mendick 2-4, SB (.713 OPS on the season)
Mauricio 2-5, 2 k's
Vientos 2-5, HR, K
Butto 5 innings 5 hits 3 er 2 walks 3 k's
Lavender 1 inning 1 hit 1 run 1 walk 1 k
Hartwig 2 innings 2 hits 1 run 0 walks 4 k's
Curtis .1 innings 3 hits 3 er 0 walks 1 k

AA
Rudick 3-5, 2 2B K (OPS up to .972), now leads all qualified Mets minor leaguers in wRC+ and wOBA
Peroza 0-3, 2 bb, 2 k
Young 0-3, BB, K
Hamel 5 innings 7 hits 4 er 0 walks 5 k's (May era 7.04 despite... 1 walk allowed over 15.2 innings. Righties hitting .313 against him, seemingly needs another weapon but the walks are obviously trending the right way)
Hall 1 perfect 1 k (15 scoreless to open 2023)

A+
Parada 2-5, HR (0-1 throwing)
Consuegra 2-4, 2b
Ramirez 1-3, HR, BB, 2 k's


A
Lara 1-4,BB, HR, K
Jett 1-4, BB, K
Reimer 1-5, 2 k's
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 10:42 am : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
11m
Interesting agent switch: Francisco Alvarez goes from Scott Boras to Bad Bunny (Rimas, William Arroyo)
Curtiss  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 10:45 am : link
has been hot garbage
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 10:50 am : link
SNY
@SNYtv
With Mark Vientos on the way, the Mets' focus now turns to Gary Sanchez:

"A Sanchez-for-Michael Pérez swap would be a logical move this week, and the team is weighing it carefully."
RE: .  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 10:55 am : link
In comment 16118304 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
SNY
@SNYtv
With Mark Vientos on the way, the Mets' focus now turns to Gary Sanchez:

"A Sanchez-for-Michael Pérez swap would be a logical move this week, and the team is weighing it carefully."


With Narvaez coming back, how does that make sense? Don't you just keep Perez to backup Alvarez until Narvaez or Nido is back, then DFA him (I assume Perez is out of options).
This team need to play these youngsters everywhere they can  
Chris684 : 5/17/2023 11:00 am : link
every day.

Vientos at DH
Baty at 3rd
Alvarez behind the dish

And so on and so on.

It’s looking more and more like the plan under Eppler was to pay for arms since the system was more rich with positional talent. Scherzer is now backfiring, letting deGrom go while unpopular, was the wise move, and who knows what we have in Verlander at this point. Hasn’t helped that Bassitt flamed out, Carrasco is shot and Quintana is injured.

I think they need a shake up.
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 11:03 am : link
In comment 16118312 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 16118304 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


SNY
@SNYtv
With Mark Vientos on the way, the Mets' focus now turns to Gary Sanchez:

"A Sanchez-for-Michael Pérez swap would be a logical move this week, and the team is weighing it carefully."



With Narvaez coming back, how does that make sense? Don't you just keep Perez to backup Alvarez until Narvaez or Nido is back, then DFA him (I assume Perez is out of options).


Perez has an option left
Link - ( New Window )
I probably should have been more clear  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 11:11 am : link
whether or not Perez has an option was really immaterial to my point. If they DFA him, so be it. He may not be picked up, and oh well.

My greater point was why bring up Sanchez? Both Nido and Narvaez are due back soon. Why not just keep Sanchez down until you really need him?

Unless they plan to go 3 catchers, or have Sanchez DH a lot (stupid plan), I don't get it. Go Narvaez and Alvarez in the majors, Sanchez in AAA, and keep Nido on DL until you have to make a decision. I don't see Sanchez getting called up. Keep Perez until then.
Pretty sure Sanchez has an opt out  
ZGiants98 : 5/17/2023 11:18 am : link
If he’s not activated soon. That could be why they are anxious to try him. We are definitely about to have a weird log jam though when Nido and Narvaez returns.
RE: Pretty sure Sanchez has an opt out  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 11:26 am : link
In comment 16118335 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
If he’s not activated soon. That could be why they are anxious to try him. We are definitely about to have a weird log jam though when Nido and Narvaez returns.


That makes sense if they do. And yes, there will be quite the logjam if Sanchez is brough up. Alvarez, Sanchez, Narvaez, and Nido. And damnit, they better not send down Alvarez
Sanchez  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 11:29 am : link
can opt out on Friday
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 11:30 am : link
also don't believe Narvaez will be back so soon, sounds like he's 3ish weeks away.
does nido still have options left?  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 11:33 am : link
that would be helpful.
RE: does nido still have options left?  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 11:34 am : link
In comment 16118350 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
that would be helpful.


He does not.
RE: I  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 11:34 am : link
In comment 16118348 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
also don't believe Narvaez will be back so soon, sounds like he's 3ish weeks away.


calf strains also highly recurrent, would make sense to take it slow with him if they have other options playing well.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 11:36 am : link
In comment 16118352 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16118348 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


also don't believe Narvaez will be back so soon, sounds like he's 3ish weeks away.



calf strains also highly recurrent, would make sense to take it slow with him if they have other options playing well.


Buck said they expect him to begin rehab games next week, as catchers need days off his rehab assignment is probably going to take longer than say a SS. I'd be very surprised if he's back before the second week of June (5-11)
this is sanchez profile from last year  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 11:40 am : link
he is far more dangerous than nido/perez, so if alvarez continues catching as well as he has defensively it makes sense to have a more dangerous righty bat off the bench. especially if you are potentially dumping pham.

his 16 homers last year are more than nido's entire career. his 659 ops was also better than any year of nido's career. narvaez is going to have missed half a year, who knows what he'll be when he gets back. this is a pretty contingency plan to explore for the next month.

Rocker  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 11:40 am : link
TJ, Anthony Kay 5.51 era in the Cubs system, Dunn out for maybe the season, Flexen era over 7.00, Adam Hill yet to pitch in 2023 Ginn 8.31 FIP/12.83 era, Wolf 6.74 FIP... Indian burial ground?
SWR  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 11:41 am : link
7.17 era in the Twins system
RE: I  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 11:44 am : link
In comment 16118348 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
also don't believe Narvaez will be back so soon, sounds like he's 3ish weeks away.


Narvaez is beginning rehab next week, so 2-3 weeks sounds right. Nido's IL placement was retroactive to May 6, and Buck said he was expected to be back as soon as eligible.

Maybe they do change course, IL Nido longer, and give Sanchez a shot (he arguably has more upside than Nido due to his bat)
pitchers are such a crap shoot  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 11:46 am : link
maybe this is just recency bias but going for a bunch of guys like vasil, ziegler, hamel, etc seems like the way to go. hope 1-2 work out and spend on pitchers in FA while producing position players.

pitching prospects you not only need to hope you pick the right guys in terms of talent, you need to hope they also stay healthy for 2-4 years of development before they even get to the big leagues.

that combination seems so low probability.
RE: Sanchez  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 11:55 am : link
In comment 16118347 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
can opt out on Friday


Missed this. That would explain it. Might be worth a shot. I like having a defensive guy as backup C, but Nido is absolutely worthless as a hitter, and has not been good throwing out runners. Things don't look good for Nido's future as a Met
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 11:55 am : link
Tidwell 3 innings 1 hit 0 runs 3 walks 5 k's. Walks continue to be an issue (21.1 innings 16 walks) he does of course have 32 k's over that span but his era now stands at 7.17 #Mets
RE: pitchers are such a crap shoot  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 11:57 am : link
In comment 16118361 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
maybe this is just recency bias but going for a bunch of guys like vasil, ziegler, hamel, etc seems like the way to go. hope 1-2 work out and spend on pitchers in FA while producing position players.

pitching prospects you not only need to hope you pick the right guys in terms of talent, you need to hope they also stay healthy for 2-4 years of development before they even get to the big leagues.

that combination seems so low probability.


That's what I hope they do this year in the draft. 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds. If a hitter drops in the 1st or 2nd that you like, fine. But I'd like to see them draft 5 pitchers in first 4 rounds.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 11:58 am : link
Parada 0-2 (0/2 throwing as well) Ramirez 0-2, 2 k's #Mets
RE: RE: pitchers are such a crap shoot  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 12:00 pm : link
In comment 16118374 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 16118361 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


maybe this is just recency bias but going for a bunch of guys like vasil, ziegler, hamel, etc seems like the way to go. hope 1-2 work out and spend on pitchers in FA while producing position players.

pitching prospects you not only need to hope you pick the right guys in terms of talent, you need to hope they also stay healthy for 2-4 years of development before they even get to the big leagues.

that combination seems so low probability.



That's what I hope they do this year in the draft. 7 picks in the 1st 4 rounds. If a hitter drops in the 1st or 2nd that you like, fine. But I'd like to see them draft 5 pitchers in first 4 rounds.


first round id almost always go hitter unless some totally unexpected pitcher falls.

then with the other 6 picks i'd try to go overslot on a few pitchers (and underslot wherever necessary to pay for it).
I agree with 1st round hitter  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 12:08 pm : link
but they are drafting at what, 32 or something? Kind of like the no RB in the 1st. It's different if it's a #2 pick vs the back end of the round
Tidwell  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 12:12 pm : link
has now been awful for 2 straight appearances. Yikes.
probably a focus on college pitchers too  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 12:14 pm : link
next year Mets will have Baty, Alvarez, and Vientos full-time. Hopefully they will have had their adjustment period. Mauricio in the mix as well. Young guys in Ramirez, Jett, Parada, etc. And a desperate need for pitching. I'm all about BPA in the MLB draft, but damn they need some pitching desperately. Vasil looks like he may be an answer. Megill at the back end. Thought Peterson would be fine at 4 or 5, but that is in serious doubt to put it mildly.

So Senga and Megill as the only younger guys at the MLB level, with Vasil the closest thing to a sure thing on the minor league level. Everyone else is elderly in baseball terms, or a huge question mark
RE: Tidwell  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 12:14 pm : link
In comment 16118392 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has now been awful for 2 straight appearances. Yikes.



Last 2 outings
5/10+5/17 5.2 innings 6 hits 9 er 8 walks (5 today) 8 k's. Today so far 75 pitches 42 strikes
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 12:17 pm : link
don't see anything to believe Megill is an MLB starter.

5.25 FIP this year, has never shown an ability to hold his stuff or give many innings and is already almost 28. Savant page is UGLY
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I  
Metnut : 5/17/2023 12:19 pm : link
In comment 16118403 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
don't see anything to believe Megill is an MLB starter.

5.25 FIP this year, has never shown an ability to hold his stuff or give many innings and is already almost 28. Savant page is UGLY Link - ( New Window )


A lot of people watched his first few starts last year when his velocity was way up and he looked NASTY. He's been nothing close to that this year and unfortunately looks like a AAAA type unless he can improve.
RE: probably a focus on college pitchers too  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 12:22 pm : link
In comment 16118398 KDavies said:
Quote:
next year Mets will have Baty, Alvarez, and Vientos full-time. Hopefully they will have had their adjustment period. Mauricio in the mix as well. Young guys in Ramirez, Jett, Parada, etc. And a desperate need for pitching. I'm all about BPA in the MLB draft, but damn they need some pitching desperately. Vasil looks like he may be an answer. Megill at the back end. Thought Peterson would be fine at 4 or 5, but that is in serious doubt to put it mildly.

So Senga and Megill as the only younger guys at the MLB level, with Vasil the closest thing to a sure thing on the minor league level. Everyone else is elderly in baseball terms, or a huge question mark


it may be better to just keep drafting first round hitters and eventually trade them for someone else's pablo lopez/luis castillo/giolito types at the deadline as rentals since we know cohen will spend to keep the right guys.

and obviously signing ohtani would be very helpful to the cause.

a giolito/hendriks megadeal headlined by a parada or ramirez (or vientos if he isn't helping this year) is something we'd have to consider.
Megill 35 MLB starts  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 12:24 pm : link
4.55 FIP 4.8 innings per start. Command comes and goes, doesn't go deep into games despite his frame. Would love to be proven wrong but I'd be very surprised if that's the case here. He's just a guy.
RE: Megill 35 MLB starts  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 12:26 pm : link
In comment 16118409 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
4.55 FIP 4.8 innings per start. Command comes and goes, doesn't go deep into games despite his frame. Would love to be proven wrong but I'd be very surprised if that's the case here. He's just a guy.


he's never thrown innings so agreed. they've needed extra depth this year so right now he's starting more out of necessity than anything else but just like last year they should start planning to try him as a RP and hope his stuff can play up a little bit.
RE: RE: Megill 35 MLB starts  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 12:27 pm : link
In comment 16118411 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16118409 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


4.55 FIP 4.8 innings per start. Command comes and goes, doesn't go deep into games despite his frame. Would love to be proven wrong but I'd be very surprised if that's the case here. He's just a guy.



he's never thrown innings so agreed. they've needed extra depth this year so right now he's starting more out of necessity than anything else but just like last year they should start planning to try him as a RP and hope his stuff can play up a little bit.


I think the odds are significantly better (but not a given) that if he's allowed to throw 1-2 inning bursts his stuff will play up. He seems better in theory (frame etc) as a SP than in performance.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 12:28 pm : link
Strong 5th for Tidwell. 3 up, 3 down with 1 K. Guessing he's done for the day. 5 innings 2 hits 2 runs 5 walks 8 k's, 88 pitches/51 strikes #Mets
The time has come to begin to turn this roster over.  
Optimus-NY : 5/17/2023 12:31 pm : link
OUT with the old (via trade or DFA):
-Nidon't, Mehscobar, and Voyeursnack

IN with the new (called up):
-Alvarez, Baty, and Vientos (Mauricio at some point later this season too)
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 12:32 pm : link
Kind of curious if Alex Ramirez is actively trying to hit for more power. Last 9 ab's he's stuck out 6 times (already 3 times today). Stuck out only 12 times all of April #Mets
RE: .  
Shecky : 5/17/2023 12:38 pm : link
In comment 16118421 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Kind of curious if Alex Ramirez is actively trying to hit for more power. Last 9 ab's he's stuck out 6 times (already 3 times today). Stuck out only 12 times all of April #Mets


I’m one of the few who think he needs massive changes to his swing. Bat should be quick, but he’s late too often. I’m not sold on him, but the tools are there and he’s young enough.
Why draft a SP  
Shecky : 5/17/2023 12:43 pm : link
When you’ve got eyes on a HS SS with a Dunston cannon, who doesn’t even pitch for his HS team lol
Who knows how low you can get him? Or others. Experiment knowing you’ve got a halfway decent prospect to fall back on. No joke, why not shoot for the moon?
Parada  
moze1021 : 5/17/2023 12:57 pm : link
Has had a pretty awesome May so far after a rough April..

April: .213/.338/.328 1 HR, 5 total XBH in 16 games
May: .311/.380/.600 2 HR, 8 total XBH in 12 games
Daniel  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 1:21 pm : link
Juarez has yet to allow a run in 2023. 2 more scoreless today

13.2 innings 21 k's on the season. He'll probably spend the second half in Bing.
somewhat encouraging***  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 1:25 pm : link
Quote:
SNY_Mets's avatar
SNY Mets @SNY_Mets
20m
Mark Vientos is likely to be in the lineup tonight for the Mets, per @martinonyc

Buck Showalter will make the final decision later today


**pending buck's final decision
RE: Rocker  
Named Later : 5/17/2023 1:25 pm : link
In comment 16118357 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
TJ, Anthony Kay 5.51 era in the Cubs system, Dunn out for maybe the season, Flexen era over 7.00, Adam Hill yet to pitch in 2023 Ginn 8.31 FIP/12.83 era, Wolf 6.74 FIP... Indian burial ground?


Last time I checked, Holderman was struggling in the Pirates Pen. Still rather have him in the minors, than Vogey as DH.

What about the posse that Eppier gave up for Ruf ? I saw where Szapucki has what appears to be Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. I thought Zwick was decent in the Mets farm system.

I just hope their Minor League Pitching Co-Ord can develop some of the young talent.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 1:25 pm : link
Golden Sombrero for Alex Ramirez (0-4 4 k's), Parada 0-3, Lugo 2-3 SB, Consuegra 1-3, 2b, 2 k's #Mets
RE: RE: Rocker  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 1:28 pm : link
In comment 16118477 Named Later said:
Quote:
In comment 16118357 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


TJ, Anthony Kay 5.51 era in the Cubs system, Dunn out for maybe the season, Flexen era over 7.00, Adam Hill yet to pitch in 2023 Ginn 8.31 FIP/12.83 era, Wolf 6.74 FIP... Indian burial ground?



Last time I checked, Holderman was struggling in the Pirates Pen. Still rather have him in the minors, than Vogey as DH.

What about the posse that Eppier gave up for Ruf ? I saw where Szapucki has what appears to be Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. I thought Zwick was decent in the Mets farm system.

I just hope their Minor League Pitching Co-Ord can develop some of the young talent.


Zwack 5.12 FIP/6.17 era (in fairness, he's been unlucky with a .349 BABIP. 10.03 K/9.

Seymour 3.46 era/4.77 FIP

And as we know JD Davis = outstanding for SF
RE: RE: Rocker  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 1:29 pm : link
In comment 16118477 Named Later said:
Quote:
In comment 16118357 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


TJ, Anthony Kay 5.51 era in the Cubs system, Dunn out for maybe the season, Flexen era over 7.00, Adam Hill yet to pitch in 2023 Ginn 8.31 FIP/12.83 era, Wolf 6.74 FIP... Indian burial ground?



Last time I checked, Holderman was struggling in the Pirates Pen. Still rather have him in the minors, than Vogey as DH.

What about the posse that Eppier gave up for Ruf ? I saw where Szapucki has what appears to be Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. I thought Zwick was decent in the Mets farm system.

I just hope their Minor League Pitching Co-Ord can develop some of the young talent.


Holderman has been very good. 2.49 FIP 10.7 K/9
holderman has a 2.8 era in 16 inn and has been a steady 8th inn guy  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 1:33 pm : link
his xera is 3.59 each of the last 2 years. he has pitched very similarly to drew smith.

if we could reverse that one i think we would given the injury to diaz.

RE: RE: RE: Megill 35 MLB starts  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 1:34 pm : link
In comment 16118413 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 16118411 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16118409 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


4.55 FIP 4.8 innings per start. Command comes and goes, doesn't go deep into games despite his frame. Would love to be proven wrong but I'd be very surprised if that's the case here. He's just a guy.



he's never thrown innings so agreed. they've needed extra depth this year so right now he's starting more out of necessity than anything else but just like last year they should start planning to try him as a RP and hope his stuff can play up a little bit.



I think the odds are significantly better (but not a given) that if he's allowed to throw 1-2 inning bursts his stuff will play up. He seems better in theory (frame etc) as a SP than in performance.


Agreed. Ideally, Megill is a bullpen guy, where I think he could excel. My point was that's all they really have in terms of young(ish) starting pitching. Senga, Megill (who I agree is not ideal as a SP), and looks like Vasil down the line
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 1:37 pm : link
Parada 1-4, 2b (1/5 throwing out runners), Ramirez 0-5 #Mets
RE: RE: probably a focus on college pitchers too  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 1:41 pm : link
In comment 16118407 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16118398 KDavies said:


Quote:


next year Mets will have Baty, Alvarez, and Vientos full-time. Hopefully they will have had their adjustment period. Mauricio in the mix as well. Young guys in Ramirez, Jett, Parada, etc. And a desperate need for pitching. I'm all about BPA in the MLB draft, but damn they need some pitching desperately. Vasil looks like he may be an answer. Megill at the back end. Thought Peterson would be fine at 4 or 5, but that is in serious doubt to put it mildly.

So Senga and Megill as the only younger guys at the MLB level, with Vasil the closest thing to a sure thing on the minor league level. Everyone else is elderly in baseball terms, or a huge question mark



it may be better to just keep drafting first round hitters and eventually trade them for someone else's pablo lopez/luis castillo/giolito types at the deadline as rentals since we know cohen will spend to keep the right guys.

and obviously signing ohtani would be very helpful to the cause.

a giolito/hendriks megadeal headlined by a parada or ramirez (or vientos if he isn't helping this year) is something we'd have to consider.


Will be interesting to see which way the Mets go. On one head, they are a built to win team with a rotation headlined by aging veterans Verlander and Scherzer. On the other hand, they are transitioning to a bunch of younger players. I looked ahead to June's schedule, and it is not easy, particularly when you consider they can't beat the likes of the Rockies, Tigers, Reds, and Nationals right now.

I'd hate for them to trade away top young prospects like Vientos, Parada, or Jett again to make a run, and then miss the playoffs, or be a quick exit. But at the same time, it's kind of hard to not seize the opportunity of having Verlander and Scherzer.

Mets luck, we know how it will go. Verlander and Scherzer will be dealing, Mets will make some deals, one or both of them gets injured, season goes down the toilet.
im not worried about schedule & i think theyll be able to find innings  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 1:51 pm : link
eaters to fill gaps so long as scherzer/senga/verlander/robertson project to be healthy for playoffs.

the whole thing comes down to the every day players. they need to get on track and develop an identity that's not comfortably numb.

they have no identity whatsoever right now and on the season. pray alonso homers i guess?

it's a lot to place on the kids but 1 of these 3 could be what they need to spark them to an identity. they wont change things by themselves - canha/marte need to step up, narvaez coming back should help, bench guys need to also contribute (remember when Guillorme was hitting .400 last year?). but they need someone other than lindor/alonso talented enough to drive in runs like michael harris did in atlanta last year. the 3 kids are it and baty may already be halfway there.

if 2 or 3 of the kids step up that's when things could really snowball (in a good way).
here's another way of looking at the every day group  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 2:09 pm : link
Nimmo (2nd CF),
Alonso (8th 1b),
Lindor (6th ss),
McNeil (7th 2b)

are all top 25% at their positions in terms of productivity. and that's despite all of them not playing great.

the issue is the other 5 spots have been average or below. that is the problem.

Baty and Alvarez have gotten 3b/c heading in a better direction. hopefully vientos does the same at DH.

canha and marte are 2 of the bigger disappointments through 1/4 of the year. marte is the 22nd RF and a -.2 fwar right now. canha is 24th LF and a 0.0 fwar right now. they are both well below replacement level.

the degree to which they can add more production from 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 of those positions will determine how far they go this year. canha and marte finding their form from last year could be a 5-8 win impact the rest of the year that gets them from exactly where they are now to in a wild card with nothing else.
a little surprised by this but i dont disagree  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 2:20 pm : link
Quote:
Andy Martino @martinonyc
Mets will option Guillorme for Vientos per source


after just getting done trashing canha/marte it's not unfair to say that recent cold streak notwithstanding pham has better underlying numbers than both of them.
RE: a little surprised by this but i dont disagree  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 2:34 pm : link
In comment 16118512 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


Quote:


Andy Martino @martinonyc
Mets will option Guillorme for Vientos per source



after just getting done trashing canha/marte it's not unfair to say that recent cold streak notwithstanding pham has better underlying numbers than both of them.


It gives them another OF, and they don't have to get rid of a player. I get it. Plus Guillorme can play every day and hopefully get his bat going.

I was one of the more patient ones in terms of bringing up the young guys, and my biggest reason for it was organizational depth. Pham may get going. If he does you don't wind up cutting him, and then trading prospects for the same type of player before the deadline.
RE: a little surprised by this but i dont disagree  
Sammo85 : 5/17/2023 2:44 pm : link
In comment 16118512 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


Quote:


Andy Martino @martinonyc
Mets will option Guillorme for Vientos per source



after just getting done trashing canha/marte it's not unfair to say that recent cold streak notwithstanding pham has better underlying numbers than both of them.


It probably was a toss up between Vogelbach and Guillorme. Escobar is a switch hitter off bench who can play the positions and has more pop than Guillorme.

Canha and Pham can play all three OF spots and DH.

Holderman has been solid for Pirates and would be ideal fit in pen here. Just a simple but bad trade when it was made and it’s played out as such.

Hopefully Vogelbach is nearing his end here quickly later this month as roster retool options continue to become necessary. Epplers history list of questionable moves continue and definitely hoping Cohen sees how unfit he is for his job.

if eppler can help stearns bring in ohtani it will all be worth it  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 3:11 pm : link
in a way eppler actually fills a potentially important role under stearns since he has no experience with big $ free agency in milwaukee.

eppler has at least proved competent and credible wielding cohen's purse.

but i agree he has lost me as a potential singularly capable franchise leader for the long term. someone else needs to be the visionary of how to construct a roster.
wow curveball - vientos starting at 3b tonight  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 3:12 pm : link


escobar hit a homer last night, surprised if he wouldnt start him at 3b and vientos at DH.
Vientos  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 3:13 pm : link
starting at 3b and hitting 8th
RE: Vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 3:14 pm : link
In comment 16118548 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
starting at 3b and hitting 8th


so do we think this is a 'throw him in so he's comfortable at 3b right away' or a subtle fu from buck because he feels like he got big footed here?

i kind of think it's the latter and an "if he's up here he needs to play d" type of thing.
RE: Vientos  
Metnut : 5/17/2023 3:15 pm : link
In comment 16118548 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
starting at 3b and hitting 8th


So he’s benching Baty for Vientos? I guess because it’s a lefty?
very interesting on Vientos  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 3:15 pm : link
have him on all 3 of my fantasy teams. 3B is a weak position, so would be great to get him eligibility there.

Vientos at 3B and Escobar at 2B was certainly not what I had my money on.
of course buck benches 2 guys who hit hrs yesterday and play 3b well  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 3:17 pm : link
to start vientos at a position most think he's not very good at. very strange decision that seems almost passive aggressive.
RE: very interesting on Vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 3:18 pm : link
In comment 16118553 KDavies said:
Quote:
have him on all 3 of my fantasy teams. 3B is a weak position, so would be great to get him eligibility there.

Vientos at 3B and Escobar at 2B was certainly not what I had my money on.


wow i totally missed that escobar was in at 2b too. i guess we said we wanted to see some changes. this is a very different lineup.
RE: of course buck benches 2 guys who hit hrs yesterday and play 3b well  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 3:18 pm : link
In comment 16118555 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
to start vientos at a position most think he's not very good at. very strange decision that seems almost passive aggressive.


Escobar is playing 2B
here we thought Pham would be jettisoned  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 3:19 pm : link
and he is in the 5 hole.

Can he be moved down in the lineup? Please?
RE: RE: very interesting on Vientos  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 3:20 pm : link
In comment 16118556 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16118553 KDavies said:


Quote:


have him on all 3 of my fantasy teams. 3B is a weak position, so would be great to get him eligibility there.

Vientos at 3B and Escobar at 2B was certainly not what I had my money on.



wow i totally missed that escobar was in at 2b too. i guess we said we wanted to see some changes. this is a very different lineup.


You didn't think of looking in the two-hole for Escobar?
This is why Buck wins manager of the year everywhere  
moespree : 5/17/2023 3:25 pm : link
And gets fired a few years later. I like most of you do not understand the lineup. It defies logic in a number of areas.

Eric, I'd hate to think you are correct and Buck would actually do that, but it wouldn't surprise me either.
RE: RE: RE: very interesting on Vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 3:25 pm : link
In comment 16118561 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 16118556 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16118553 KDavies said:


Quote:


have him on all 3 of my fantasy teams. 3B is a weak position, so would be great to get him eligibility there.

Vientos at 3B and Escobar at 2B was certainly not what I had my money on.



wow i totally missed that escobar was in at 2b too. i guess we said we wanted to see some changes. this is a very different lineup.



You didn't think of looking in the two-hole for Escobar?


lol it would be funny if it wasnt all so batshit crazy.

josh flemming appears to be a really weird pitcher, he doesnt strike people out, he gives up hard contact, and he has issues with control.



not giving up a ton of loud contact appears to be his 1 good thing, he's tough to barrel so he doesn't give up as many homers as the rest of the quality of contact he allows (which is frequent since he's not k'ing anyone, and often with men on base since he's walking people often).

righties are hitting .290 off him with a near 800 ops.
so insert the mets max righty power lineup and hope they can barrel him up and knock him around?
yeah, it looks like an analytics geek  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 3:32 pm : link
lineup
this seems like a lineup with a built in excuse to change if it works  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 3:32 pm : link
if guys hit today tomorrow is totally going to be a max lefty day if the rays throw a righty regardless of what any of the plethora of righties do today. i guess the most benign interpretation today is buck is sending the "i use a full roster!" message?
RE: yeah, it looks like an analytics geek  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 3:33 pm : link
In comment 16118570 KDavies said:
Quote:
lineup


i think it's buck passive aggressively cosplaying an analytics geek.
RE: RE: yeah, it looks like an analytics geek  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 3:38 pm : link
In comment 16118573 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16118570 KDavies said:


Quote:


lineup



i think it's buck passive aggressively cosplaying an analytics geek.


Or it's a Yankees type move, where the front office nerds are doing lineups. Can't imagine Buck putting up with that. Boone he is not.
RE: RE: Vientos  
Optimus-NY : 5/17/2023 3:57 pm : link
In comment 16118550 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16118548 DanMetroMan said:


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starting at 3b and hitting 8th



so do we think this is a 'throw him in so he's comfortable at 3b right away' or a subtle fu from buck because he feels like he got big footed here?

i kind of think it's the latter and an "if he's up here he needs to play d" type of thing.


I think it's the latter. No two ways about it. We know Buck...
Tommy Pham batting 5th  
Vanzetti : 5/17/2023 4:10 pm : link
Even Darin Ruf is laughing at that
RE: of course buck benches 2 guys who hit hrs yesterday and play 3b well  
Vanzetti : 5/17/2023 4:15 pm : link
In comment 16118555 Eric on Li said:
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to start vientos at a position most think he's not very good at. very strange decision that seems almost passive aggressive.



That's exactly what I think it is. Buck's ego can't take the criticism.

His ideal would be for Mets to win but have Vientos strikeout 4 times.
RE: RE: of course buck benches 2 guys who hit hrs yesterday and play 3b well  
Optimus-NY : 5/17/2023 4:38 pm : link
In comment 16118593 Vanzetti said:
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In comment 16118555 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


to start vientos at a position most think he's not very good at. very strange decision that seems almost passive aggressive.




That's exactly what I think it is. Buck's ego can't take the criticism.

His ideal would be for Mets to win but have Vientos strikeout 4 times.


Yes. Wouldn't surprise me. Real shame about Buck. There's a reason he's been fired from his previous jobs. He's as stubborn as a mule.
Walker  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 4:52 pm : link
era up to 6.53 for the Phillies
RE: Walker  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 5:04 pm : link
In comment 16118611 DanMetroMan said:
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era up to 6.53 for the Phillies


22% hr/fb ratio, up to almost 2 homers per9. big regression from last year when he was under 1 per 9. walks also up.

it's a little bizarre but all the UFA pitchers they considered this offseason have basically regressed. bassitt, walker, taillon, heaney.

quintana hasn't pitched and he's still done less damage to his new team than some of those guys.
Bassitt  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 5:14 pm : link
has been MUCH better recently. Last 5 starts 33.2 innings 14 hits 6 er. In fact, he's been one of the better pitchers in baseball since Mid-April
Bassitt  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 5:16 pm : link
first start of the year 9 er. Bassitt last 5 starts 1.57 era, 6.64 innings per start
The important thing is  
allstarjim : 5/17/2023 5:16 pm : link
Vientos is up, and he's in the lineup.

Baty has been sitting occasionally against lefties, so this isn't extraordinary.

That said, I do have concerns that the first game against a righty starter, either tomorrow (Rays starting pitcher TBD), or Friday against Quantrill vs Cleveland, that we will see Vientos on the bench in favor of Vogelbach DH'ing. Vientos has destroyed both righties and lefties this year, this should not be a platoon situation:

Vientos vs RHP this year:

ABs: 113 BA: .327 OBP: .415 SLG .690 HR: 11 RBI: 33 OPS: 1.105

vs LHP:

ABs: 28 BA: .357 OBP: .419 SLG .679 HR: 3 RBI: 4 OPS: 1.098

Vientos needs to be in the lineup everyday, and I hope we see that.

Not  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 5:19 pm : link
to "defend" Heaney but he's had 2 horrendous starts (7 runs his first start, 6 runs May 3rd). His other 6 starts he allowed 0 runs twice, 1 run once and 3 or less in every start except those 2. If he did that here we'd be saying he was a good signing (at least right now).
I  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 5:20 pm : link
do not expect Vientos to play as much as you guys hope. I'd love to be wrong but I expect him to mostly play vs. lefties "only" unless he really forces the issue.
RE: Bassitt  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 5:23 pm : link
In comment 16118627 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
first start of the year 9 er. Bassitt last 5 starts 1.57 era, 6.64 innings per start


im still pretty surprised they didnt make more of an effort to bring him back. i know how the year ended but he was a steady #3.

carrasco was tradeable and quintana was optional so they could have easily afforded bassitt over those 2. though i guess predicting this level of bad luck was impossible and they got a pick out of it. and maybe they didn't love bassitt's routine?
RE: I  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 5:24 pm : link
In comment 16118633 DanMetroMan said:
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do not expect Vientos to play as much as you guys hope. I'd love to be wrong but I expect him to mostly play vs. lefties "only" unless he really forces the issue.


if they play him against lefties only that will be a folly even worse than when they were benching alvarez early on. if that's how this goes eppler may need to pull a brad pitt and take away the alternatives.
To  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 5:27 pm : link
be clear, I'd love to be proven fully wrong. I'm not saying you guys are wrong about wanting him to play. I just get the feeling based on Buck's comments the plan now is for him to serve as some level of "matchup depth" aka DH/3b paired with Baty/Vogelbach vs. usurping Vogelbach. Would love to be wrong and have him get 75% of the DH AB's and sprinkled in at 1b/3b.
RE: RE: Bassitt  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 5:28 pm : link
In comment 16118638 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16118627 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


first start of the year 9 er. Bassitt last 5 starts 1.57 era, 6.64 innings per start



im still pretty surprised they didnt make more of an effort to bring him back. i know how the year ended but he was a steady #3.

carrasco was tradeable and quintana was optional so they could have easily afforded bassitt over those 2. though i guess predicting this level of bad luck was impossible and they got a pick out of it. and maybe they didn't love bassitt's routine?


They seemed so disinterested in bringing him back, makes me feel like there was more to it. Then again, they didn't seem that eager to bring back Walker and his reputation is stellar so who knows?
RE: RE: RE: Bassitt  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 5:30 pm : link
In comment 16118643 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 16118638 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16118627 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


first start of the year 9 er. Bassitt last 5 starts 1.57 era, 6.64 innings per start



im still pretty surprised they didnt make more of an effort to bring him back. i know how the year ended but he was a steady #3.

carrasco was tradeable and quintana was optional so they could have easily afforded bassitt over those 2. though i guess predicting this level of bad luck was impossible and they got a pick out of it. and maybe they didn't love bassitt's routine?



They seemed so disinterested in bringing him back, makes me feel like there was more to it. Then again, they didn't seem that eager to bring back Walker and his reputation is stellar so who knows?


i think walker just blew past what they expected $-wise. if they expected his market to be as robust as it became they probably QO him.

bassitt didnt do bad but if i remember right he got less than what most expected so in his case i think there was something they didnt like.
Seems  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 5:37 pm : link
like they opted for Senga's "upside", though 3 for 63 was still a "steal" for Bassitt.
RE: Seems  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 5:49 pm : link
In comment 16118649 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
like they opted for Senga's "upside", though 3 for 63 was still a "steal" for Bassitt.


agree they ultimately first chose senga's upside, but they could have done both pretty easily. carrasco's 14m + quintana's 13m would have covered bassitt pretty easily even if they took some $ back in a carrasco trade. and they gave quintana 2 years.

senga + bassitt would have given them 1 upside guy, 1 reliable guy. i think they got a little penny wise thinking the 2 cheaper 34 year olds they chose had a chance to replicate bassitt at lower $, except we all saw carrasco was smoke and mirrors last year. i hope he comes back and proves me wrong but id have traded him at the first opportunity and then put the $ into a different SP (like bassitt).
hadn't seen this quote from buck but it's somewhat encouraging  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 6:43 pm : link
Quote:
“He’s going to play tonight and we’re going to see how it evolves,” Showalter said Wednesday. “We hope he makes a big contribution to a win tonight and gives us another good option to make making out a lineup hard.”


tomorrow they get taj bradley then 3 more righties in a row in cleveland. then smyly, stroman, taillon. then 3 in colorado.

not a lot of lefties but only 1 cy level guy (bieber). they have to let the guy play at least 50% of the time. im sure they will get vogelsnack starts vs righties but vientos has also been crushing righties this year. just off righties he has 5x as many homers as vogey.
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