for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Rays at Mets Game 1. Verlander

ZGiants98 : 5/16/2023 6:26 pm
Mets Lineup

Nimmo CF
Lindor SS
McNeil 2B
Alonso 1B
Pham DH
Marte RF
Baty 3B
Canha LF
Alvarez C
-
Verlander P

Rays Lineup

Ramirez 1B
Franco SS
B. Lowe 2B
Arozarena LF
Paredes 3B
J. Lowe DH
Margot RF
Bethancourt C
Siri CF

Beeks SP

We are facing another lefty. Yuck. David Peterson down. Josh Walker up (added to 40). Verlander's home debut. LGM!
Pages: 1 2 3 | Show All |  Next>>
More notes...  
ZGiants98 : 5/16/2023 6:32 pm : link
-Carrasco will start Friday
-Quintana could ramp up big time if his CT scan goes well Friday
-Narvaez expected to start rehab assignment at some point next week
have a good feeling about Walker  
KDavies : 5/16/2023 6:46 pm : link
28, but wouldn’t be surprised if he took this opportunity and ran with it. Plenty of room to establish himself in this bullpen
narvaez back should be a boost but they need to keep alvarez in mix  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 6:54 pm : link
his defense has graded out really well so far. 90th percentile framing that has been good for +2 runs. +2 blocks above average. 65th percentile pop time. hasn't done great in the running game (1/6) but has shown that he has a good arm. a 2:1 with him and narvaez should be really good.
some vientos reading  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 6:58 pm : link
Quote:
Ryan Finkelstein
@FinkelsteinRyan
Just wrote a deep dive on Mark Vientos for @JustBB_Media that will go up tomorrow, but here is the biggest thing I found.

Last year, Vientos struggled against breaking balls, leading to a high K rate and his bad splits against right-handed pitching.

That is no longer an issue🧵


Reply to @FinkelsteinRyan @JustBB_Media
FinkelsteinRyan's avatar
Ryan Finkelstein @FinkelsteinRyan

Against breaking balls in 2022 Vientos hit .150/.209/.242 with a 37.2% strikeout rate.

This year, he's hitting .265/.357/.471 with a 21.4% K rate against breaking balls. Walk rate against breaking balls has gone from 6.2% up to 14.3%.

FinkelsteinRyan's avatar
Ryan Finkelstein @FinkelsteinRyan

By identifying and laying off breaking balls, Vientos isn't getting himself out and is forcing pitchers to attack him with fastballs more. This has led to the video game numbers he is posting in Triple-A.

Last year, Vientos saw fastballs 40% of the time and now it is up to 48%.

FinkelsteinRyan's avatar
Ryan Finkelstein @FinkelsteinRyan
7m
What is he doing with those fastballs?

2022: .302/.408/.562, 11 HR in 201 PA
2023: .377/.462/.844 10 HR in 91 PA

Vientos is on pace for 45 home runs if he got 600 plate appearances this year.

I believe he is the best home run hitter on the 40-man roster not named Pete Alonso.

FinkelsteinRyan's avatar
Ryan Finkelstein @FinkelsteinRyan
The Mets cannot justify rostering and giving at-bats to the likes of Tommy Pham and Eduardo Escobar over Vientos at this point.

While the fit is clunky, Vientos needs to be seeing time and should honestly be the everyday DH.

If that even means trading Vogelbach so be it.


i dont know why they'd need to trade vogelbach just limit him to 1-2 starts per week until he starts showing more power. he will probably get PH work late game almost every game against righty relievers.
another day with rbis and big exit velocities from mauricio + vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 7:41 pm : link
mauricio - 2/3 with 3 rbis, a 110 mph single
vientos - 1/3 with 1 rbie, 1 110.7 mph single, 109mph lineout

4/9 of the mets starting lineup hasn't hit a ball 110.7 all year.
RE: another day with rbis and big exit velocities from mauricio + vientos  
Optimus-NY : 5/16/2023 7:46 pm : link
In comment 16117943 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
mauricio - 2/3 with 3 rbis, a 110 mph single
vientos - 1/3 with 1 rbie, 1 110.7 mph single, 109mph lineout

4/9 of the mets starting lineup hasn't hit a ball 110.7 all year.


Eppler and Buck are so damned stubborn man. I guess they figure that if they move Vientos up it's just another sign that they're bailing on the season and admitting the off-season was a failure. How else can we explain this?
the 110.7mph single was against an 80 mph change up from dillon tate  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 7:49 pm : link
the o's righty reliever who owns a career 3.97 era in about 200 career mlb innings is on a rehab assignment.
RE: RE: another day with rbis and big exit velocities from mauricio + vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 7:59 pm : link
In comment 16117945 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 16117943 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


mauricio - 2/3 with 3 rbis, a 110 mph single
vientos - 1/3 with 1 rbie, 1 110.7 mph single, 109mph lineout

4/9 of the mets starting lineup hasn't hit a ball 110.7 all year.



Eppler and Buck are so damned stubborn man. I guess they figure that if they move Vientos up it's just another sign that they're bailing on the season and admitting the off-season was a failure. How else can we explain this?


i think they honestly arent ready to give up on pham, mehscobar, and vogelbach.

vogelbach is limited but realistically not a DFA candidate. he can be a contributor and would actually be a decent weapon off the bench vs righty relievers.

mehscobar is their main insurance at 3b, position versatile, and "good in the clubhouse".

pham has hit the ball hard, has good underlying #'s, and is OF depth where they are thin.

individually each is a justifiable keep but there's an easy way to get creative here. which is to just drop down 1 pitcher. do they need 4 of brigham, hunter, leone, nogosek, and walker all active each game? let a couple of them ride the merry go round once carrasco returns.

if they have to dump one of the vets pham is the easiest to cut bait with. i suspect that's why they've given him 7 starts so far this month. he is riding an 0-18 in his last 5 of them. i know he has hit the ball hard but at some point i think we need to just cut bait. the guy replacing him can also hit the ball hard and go 0-18.
meanwhile 1 hit in 3 innings so far of a bullpen game  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 8:07 pm : link
and 0 contact above 99 mph. just 2 hard hit balls so far.
The Mets are digging a very big hole for themselves early this season  
Ira : 5/16/2023 8:12 pm : link
.
The ship....  
dannysection 313 : 5/16/2023 8:19 pm : link
Be sinking...

Just ugly and they look like they don't really care, going through the motions.

So 5 under after the sweep by the Rays, with the 78 million dollar pay-roll.

Unwatchable....

Vientos with another  
ZGiants98 : 5/16/2023 8:25 pm : link
bomb.
Kumar Rocker having TJ surgery  
Vanzetti : 5/16/2023 8:26 pm : link
At least, Mets avoided that pitfall.
Jesus this season has been hard enough. Can we stop with the  
Rob in Rockaway : 5/16/2023 8:26 pm : link
ridiculous nicknames already? How old are you guys???
Team stinks  
Sammo85 : 5/16/2023 8:32 pm : link
If Verlander is going to struggle to find strike zone every other start he’s not going to make it through summer even missing a whole month to start.

They need to shake up roster a bit and retool the entire bench if they have to as it’s only punching ticket they have this early.

The locker room seems too comfortable too. Losing? Oh well.
RE: RE: RE: another day with rbis and big exit velocities from mauricio + vientos  
Sammo85 : 5/16/2023 8:33 pm : link
In comment 16117958 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16117945 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


In comment 16117943 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


mauricio - 2/3 with 3 rbis, a 110 mph single
vientos - 1/3 with 1 rbie, 1 110.7 mph single, 109mph lineout

4/9 of the mets starting lineup hasn't hit a ball 110.7 all year.



Eppler and Buck are so damned stubborn man. I guess they figure that if they move Vientos up it's just another sign that they're bailing on the season and admitting the off-season was a failure. How else can we explain this?



i think they honestly arent ready to give up on pham, mehscobar, and vogelbach.

vogelbach is limited but realistically not a DFA candidate. he can be a contributor and would actually be a decent weapon off the bench vs righty relievers.

mehscobar is their main insurance at 3b, position versatile, and "good in the clubhouse".

pham has hit the ball hard, has good underlying #'s, and is OF depth where they are thin.

individually each is a justifiable keep but there's an easy way to get creative here. which is to just drop down 1 pitcher. do they need 4 of brigham, hunter, leone, nogosek, and walker all active each game? let a couple of them ride the merry go round once carrasco returns.

if they have to dump one of the vets pham is the easiest to cut bait with. i suspect that's why they've given him 7 starts so far this month. he is riding an 0-18 in his last 5 of them. i know he has hit the ball hard but at some point i think we need to just cut bait. the guy replacing him can also hit the ball
hard and go 0-18.


Pham at least can play outfield. Vogelbach has zero value on a competitive major league roster.

Eppler is just not cut out for his job.
3 batted balls over 107 tonight for vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 8:47 pm : link
Quote:
Joe DeMayo @PSLToFlushing
12m
Mark Vientos hit his 13th home run of the season tonight

107.2 MPH off the bat and 411 feet. He is hitting .336 with a 1.111 OPS

I simply can’t give you a good reason why he’s not in Queens right now


if he's not in the lineup tomorrow in NY it's shameful. no other word for it. no reason for it except stubbornness. either throw 1 of the AAAA relievers arms off tonight and then clear the spot or dfa pham. he got a fair shot over 80 plate appearances. he didnt produce enough and at 35 he's not a good enough player to carry waiting for him to get over .200.
https://twitter.com/PSLToFlushing/status/1658631246488936449 - ( New Window )
DL someone with phantom injury  
spike : 5/16/2023 9:02 pm : link
and bring up Vientos!
RE: More notes...  
Earl the goat : 5/16/2023 9:06 pm : link
In comment 16117906 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
-Carrasco will start Friday
-Quintana could ramp up big time if his CT scan goes well Friday
-Narvaez expected to start rehab assignment at some point next week




ZGiants. No pitching. I told you weeks ago. Team in big trouble
Fire Eppler. Buck. Bring up Mauricio and Vientos
This team is listless.  
Optimus-NY : 5/16/2023 9:07 pm : link
It's like watching the Walking Dead out there. Go sign Kenny Powers or something, lol.

RE: 3 batted balls over 107 tonight for vientos  
GF1080 : 5/16/2023 9:08 pm : link
In comment 16118023 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


Quote:


Joe DeMayo @PSLToFlushing
12m
Mark Vientos hit his 13th home run of the season tonight

107.2 MPH off the bat and 411 feet. He is hitting .336 with a 1.111 OPS

I simply can’t give you a good reason why he’s not in Queens right now



if he's not in the lineup tomorrow in NY it's shameful. no other word for it. no reason for it except stubbornness. either throw 1 of the AAAA relievers arms off tonight and then clear the spot or dfa pham. he got a fair shot over 80 plate appearances. he didnt produce enough and at 35 he's not a good enough player to carry waiting for him to get over .200. https://twitter.com/PSLToFlushing/status/1658631246488936449 - ( New Window )


His markers haven't been hit yet. Needs 40 HRs.
The team is dead  
spike : 5/16/2023 9:09 pm : link
the moment Trumpets hurt himself in WBC
these home run things seem good  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 9:09 pm : link
they should do more of that.
What's eating Drew Smith?  
Optimus-NY : 5/16/2023 9:37 pm : link
Smack 'em Franckie!
i was about to predict that escobar homer  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 9:57 pm : link
pls buck let him continue thriving in a part time role. if he can play a corner there is no need for pham.
Welp  
moespree : 5/16/2023 10:07 pm : link
Another game where the starter gives up 5 or more and has 80 pitches by the 4th inning.

Not going to win a thing with pitching like that.

Biggest problem in my mind is the team looks dead. Lifeless, no emotion. Going through the motions of a game.
Eric, at this point  
Shecky : 5/16/2023 10:09 pm : link
You’ve found your very own Plawecki ;)
RE: Eric, at this point  
Eric on Li : 5/16/2023 10:15 pm : link
In comment 16118089 Shecky said:
Quote:
You’ve found your very own Plawecki ;)


at this point i think im way more off the rails than that. im checking if his hits are coming off breaking balls or fastballs for gods sake.
switching topics to  
Rory : 5/16/2023 10:44 pm : link
Rays.

Does this team have it in the to go the distance. Will be interesting to see what they do at the deadline could see them getting a Vet SP.

RE: Eric, at this point  
Vanzetti : 5/16/2023 10:55 pm : link
In comment 16118089 Shecky said:
Quote:
You’ve found your very own Plawecki ;)



lol

Mark Vientos  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 8:14 am : link
Promoted
Let’s goooo!!!  
Beezer : 5/17/2023 8:27 am : link
.
RE: Mark Vientos  
pjcas18 : 5/17/2023 8:27 am : link
In comment 16118172 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Promoted

Seems like they're rushing the kid.
RE: RE: Mark Vientos  
CooperDash : 5/17/2023 8:40 am : link
In comment 16118176 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16118172 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Promoted


Seems like they're rushing the kid.


LOL
RE: Mark Vientos  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 8:52 am : link
In comment 16118172 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Promoted


Awesome news! Get him up while he's hot and see if it continues.

Any word on any corresponding move?
RE: RE: Mark Vientos  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 9:24 am : link
In comment 16118201 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 16118172 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Promoted



Awesome news! Get him up while he's hot and see if it continues.

Any word on any corresponding move?


haven't seen one but they've been playing pham a lot,
he is 0- for a week+,
escobar homered last night as a righty PH'er,
locastro is playing again in AAA,
and they signed a veteran righty power bat in AAA a week ago.

so add all that up and i think they have prepared themselves for a pham departure.
Alonso vs. Vientos comparison  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 9:27 am : link
age 22 season:

Vientos (AAA) numbers: 101 games, 24 HR, 72 RBI, .877 OPS
Alonso (A+,AA) numbers: 93 games, 18 HR, 63 RBI, .883 OPS

age 23 season:

Vientos (AAA): 38 games, 13 HR, 37 RBI, 1.104 OPS
Alonso (AA/AAA): 132 games, 36 HR, 119 RBI, .975 OPS

Vientos in 132 games this season is on pace for 45 HR and 128 RBI

Vientos has arguably been the better minor league player. While Alonso was in college, Vientos was learning on the job in the minors, so I don't count the prior seasons for as much. (We saw the same early struggles with Nimmo for example)

Not saying Vientos will be an Alonso like hitter in the majors, but if he can come even close, it's exciting stuff.

Pham is my first guess as well  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 9:33 am : link
maybe they DL him or someone else.

He's redundant as a RH DH to Vientos. Vogey still has value as a LH PH. His OBP ability has value as well.

Only issue is OF depth, though with Marte, Nimmo, Canha, and McNeil.

For the life of me, I will not understand why Mauricio isn't getting playing time in the OF. Obviously, if there is an OF injury, you move McNeil to the OF and bring up Mauricio, but would be nice to have the added versatility. If one of the 4 guys above is injured, who is your 4th OF? That instance may prevent them from bringing up a Mauricio and going with a Cedrola or Locastro
so now that he's up what's a realistic expectation?  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 10:01 am : link
as a believer here's what ill guess - assuming they give him a good run of playing time (5 starts per week) i think in a month he wont be the worst hitter of the 3 young guys. both have hovered around 700-750 ops, and that's basically exactly what steamer projects too, but with better power (200 iso). sort of like austin riley when he was a rookie (and i think it's a better bet he's better than that than worse).

last year in sporadic playing time and 24 BBE his exit velocity was 2 mph harder (93.2mph) than the 2nd place guy on the mets, which happened to be baty (30 events, 91.1 mph). the rest of their contact quality was similar across the board, though baty hit better and k'd less. a year later and playing more baty has adjusted well and is making even better contact. he is up to 92.2mph and his hard hit % is up by 50% compared to last year. walk rate also double.

vientos probably wont hit for the average baty as quickly as he has but i think he will eventually get above .250 because he has been above .280 his whole upper minors career. he is the best home run hitter the mets have had in the minor leaguers including Alonso. he hits homers a lot of different ways, and a lot of them are big boy home runs to center and the opposite way. he's had seasons mashing lefties (2022) and righties (2021, 2023). he had one of the highest exit velocities in spring training against and the mets deployed him against tougher comp, 2 of his homers this month were against MLB pitchers on rehab assignments, and i think he probably has more contact over 100 mph than any player in MLB this year. it shouldnt take him very long to be 3rd on the team in homers behind alonso/lindor the question will be how well he can control his k/walk/contact rates. he did pretty well in his brief call up last year with a 12% walk rate and a 29% k-rate, so if that's the floor and the improvements he's shown this year are sticky there may not be a very long adjustment period. alonso hit .260 his last season in the minors at vegas and hit exactly .260 the next year in mlb as a rookie with a 10% walk rate and 26.4% k-rate.

a 700-800 ops is the reasonable guess, if you want an unreasonable one they are promoting a player a full year younger than alonso but also twice as accomplished in the upper minors with better production across the board and similar crazy exit velocities. alonso ops'd 941 as a rookie, his only big league year with a 900+ ops. jeff mcneil got called up in july of 2018 hitting .368 in vegas and he hit .329 the rest of the way for the mets finishing 6th in ROY voting (850 ops). vientos is the most productive met prospect called up since mcneil/alonso. so the upside is as high as a dh call up can get.
They can just send LG to AAA  
ZGiants98 : 5/17/2023 10:02 am : link
He has an option. Escobar becomes the backup infielder.

Would love for them to dump Pham though.
If it's Pham  
dannysection 313 : 5/17/2023 10:03 am : link
And they DFA him, it's on Eppler, and if you're Steve Cohen, you cannot be happy that 6 million was simply thrown away for Pham.

Perhaps he has a mysterious injury and goes to IL, but Pham is not going to Syracuse.

Not sure of the utility of making Eppler the fall guy in May, but some of his moves have been expensive and bad...not a good combination.

Uncle Stevie cannot be happy seeing a Tampa team with a 78 million (or whatever it is exactly) pay roll beat up on your 340 million dollar toy.

Vientos needs to start at DH every day  
ZGiants98 : 5/17/2023 10:07 am : link
So does Alvarez at catcher when Narvaez returns.

Let’s hope they do the right thing and don’t platoon these guys.
RE: Alonso vs. Vientos comparison  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 10:07 am : link
In comment 16118222 KDavies said:
Quote:
age 22 season:

Vientos (AAA) numbers: 101 games, 24 HR, 72 RBI, .877 OPS
Alonso (A+,AA) numbers: 93 games, 18 HR, 63 RBI, .883 OPS

age 23 season:

Vientos (AAA): 38 games, 13 HR, 37 RBI, 1.104 OPS
Alonso (AA/AAA): 132 games, 36 HR, 119 RBI, .975 OPS

Vientos in 132 games this season is on pace for 45 HR and 128 RBI

Vientos has arguably been the better minor league player. While Alonso was in college, Vientos was learning on the job in the minors, so I don't count the prior seasons for as much. (We saw the same early struggles with Nimmo for example)

Not saying Vientos will be an Alonso like hitter in the majors, but if he can come even close, it's exciting stuff.


this has been my point for 2+ years. if you look at the BA, walk rates, k-rates it's even more compelling. pete was .260 in vegas with an 11% walk rate and 26% k-rate (if you remember back to 2018 the reason he supposedly didnt get called up was because he was expanding his strike zone too much). he ended up k'ing slightly more than that in the big leagues and still won roy.

vientos was 29% k-rate last year and this year it's 20%. last year he walked 10%, this year he's 11%. this year he's hitting .333 last year he hit .280.

betting on a ROY/50 home run type season is beyond a long shot but for 99% of call ups it's not even a remote possibility. for vientos it is.
RE: Vientos needs to start at DH every day  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 10:11 am : link
In comment 16118274 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
So does Alvarez at catcher when Narvaez returns.

Let’s hope they do the right thing and don’t platoon these guys.


all catchers platoon to some degree so with alvarez im not as concerned. narvaez should get the short end to start but if he hits better closer to 50-50 is fine. remember alvarez is probably going to exceed any amount of playing time he's ever played before this year. last year he had the ankle issue late in the year after catching 700 innings which was almost double his previous high.

this year he's at 220 innings at the 25% mark so he's pacing to exceed that by almost 200 innings.
Tampa has been the best team in baseball  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 10:11 am : link
the bigger concern is losing to the Reds, Rockies, Tigers, and Nationals as much as they have.

Alonso's rookie season he had 53 HRs. Vientos is up at a younger age, but was on a higher HR pace than Alonso at their age 23 season. I certainly don't expect him to hit at that pace, but as was posted (I believe by Eric) the other day, Vientos has been doing much better with the breaking stuff and laying off it. If he plays in 81 games (half a season), I don't think .250 and 12-15 HR is unrealistic
this is a pretty bonkers stat line relative to it being a22/23 seasons  
Eric on Li : 5/17/2023 10:29 am : link
Quote:
Syracuse Mets @SyracuseMets
Mark Vientos with the Syracuse Mets:
40 HR
113 RBI
.294 BA
.942 OPS
150 games


if his game translates he is exactly the kind of masher this lineup needs.
RE: this is a pretty bonkers stat line relative to it being a22/23 seasons  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 10:37 am : link
In comment 16118285 Eric on Li said:
Quote:


Quote:


Syracuse Mets @SyracuseMets
Mark Vientos with the Syracuse Mets:
40 HR
113 RBI
.294 BA
.942 OPS
150 games



if his game translates he is exactly the kind of masher this lineup needs.


I have tempered expectations this year, but very excited as to what next year will bring for him. Look at Alonso's rookie season. Not crazy to think he could approach that, with a bit less power. Don't expect 53 HRs from anyone, even players who have done it before. But not crazy to think he goes for 30-35 HR next year, with the possibility for more.
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 10:42 am : link
Mets release Brad Malm and Justin Guerrera

AAA
Mendick 2-4, SB (.713 OPS on the season)
Mauricio 2-5, 2 k's
Vientos 2-5, HR, K
Butto 5 innings 5 hits 3 er 2 walks 3 k's
Lavender 1 inning 1 hit 1 run 1 walk 1 k
Hartwig 2 innings 2 hits 1 run 0 walks 4 k's
Curtis .1 innings 3 hits 3 er 0 walks 1 k

AA
Rudick 3-5, 2 2B K (OPS up to .972), now leads all qualified Mets minor leaguers in wRC+ and wOBA
Peroza 0-3, 2 bb, 2 k
Young 0-3, BB, K
Hamel 5 innings 7 hits 4 er 0 walks 5 k's (May era 7.04 despite... 1 walk allowed over 15.2 innings. Righties hitting .313 against him, seemingly needs another weapon but the walks are obviously trending the right way)
Hall 1 perfect 1 k (15 scoreless to open 2023)

A+
Parada 2-5, HR (0-1 throwing)
Consuegra 2-4, 2b
Ramirez 1-3, HR, BB, 2 k's


A
Lara 1-4,BB, HR, K
Jett 1-4, BB, K
Reimer 1-5, 2 k's
.  
DanMetroMan : 5/17/2023 10:42 am : link
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
11m
Interesting agent switch: Francisco Alvarez goes from Scott Boras to Bad Bunny (Rimas, William Arroyo)
Curtiss  
KDavies : 5/17/2023 10:45 am : link
has been hot garbage
Pages: 1 2 3 | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner