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Stacking pass-rush moves

Angel Eyes : 5/17/2023 4:35 pm
So a few months ago I started a thread on how Kayvon Thibodeaux could expand on his pass-rush moves. Right now I'm thinking more of a general level with trying to beat a lineman one-on-one.

Say you're an edge rusher and your primary move is an outside rip move. During a game, the tackle starts either holding you, which is allowed when the rusher uses the rip, or forcing you up the arc to where you can't get the quarterback. What do you use next?
perhaps  
Marty in Albany : 5/17/2023 4:42 pm : link
Get slippery  
solarmike : 5/17/2023 4:53 pm : link
I was hoping for a serious discussion on this  
Angel Eyes : 5/17/2023 4:55 pm : link
.
I apologize and make amends.  
solarmike : 5/17/2023 5:01 pm : link
Thanks.
D-Line Examples - ( New Window )
The  
Professor Falken : 5/17/2023 5:06 pm : link
Dwight Freeney spin move.
Freeney - ( New Window )
as mentioned a spin move  
Giantsfan79 : 5/17/2023 5:17 pm : link
Or a swim move to the inside.
Angel Eyes, thanks for bringing this up  
HopePhil and Optimistic : 5/17/2023 5:21 pm : link
Thibs not getting holding calls was discussed quite a bit during the season, and it was mentioned he’d need to add to his arsenal since it’s not a penalty to hold vs a rip move. I’ll be looking forward to see if Thibs has worked on this during the off-season. Could be an early indication of his commitment to reaching his potential. I like the kid, and I’m sure the coaches know what he needs to do to excel. Can’t wait to see him dominate, get the calls and force a few first and 20s!
Thibs has said he is a  
Dave on the UWS : 5/17/2023 5:21 pm : link
student of leverage. So I would guess a lot of what he will develop is based off of that. Strahan can help him there, he used that a lot during his career.
RE: Thibs has said he is a  
Angel Eyes : 5/17/2023 5:44 pm : link
In comment 16118637 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
student of leverage. So I would guess a lot of what he will develop is based off of that. Strahan can help him there, he used that a lot during his career.

I hope Strahan can; drove me up the wall seeing guys bull rush from a two-point stance and not getting leverage to do it properly.
RE: The  
bluefin : 5/17/2023 8:34 pm : link
In comment 16118620 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
Dwight Freeney spin move. Freeney - ( New Window )

good one
It is not as clear  
mfjmfj : 5/17/2023 8:38 pm : link
that holding is not called when using a rip move. While the rule is complicated, it might be simplest to say that when the rip causes the hold (because the rip is intending to disengage the blocker and will extend his arms) it is not a hold, but a hold apart from the rip is still a hold (i.e. tackling the dlineman as he goes around). Good article below. I think this is a relatively new rule and is necessary because o lineman are allowed to hold the defender as long as their hands stay inside the body. I don't think this is the actual rule, but it is definitely the way it enforced.

The key add to the rip as said above is the spin - which starts like a rip and then goes inside - and the swim which works best against smaller lineman. A good bull rush is also a great addition. What the dlineman wants to do is get the Olineman leaning and unbalanced and then go the other way or through him. This is what AT was getting beat on a lot in his rookie year. He was protecting the outside too much. If you watch him now he has as good a power down move (step the inside when the dlineman goes that way) as I have seen. Neal's problem last year was different. When someone was going outside him, instead of hopping step to stay ahead, he was crossing his feet and lunging. This led to him being on his butt a lot. I don't think Neal's problem is that difficult to coach out of him but then Flower's problems were obvious (bad hand placement leading to punching from his hips and leaning into his blocks too much) and were never corrected.
Holding and the rip. - ( New Window )
RE: The  
Del Shofner : 5/17/2023 9:11 pm : link
In comment 16118620 Professor Falken said:
Quote:
Dwight Freeney spin move. Freeney - ( New Window )


man, that's some awesome edge play right there.

Hopefully Thibs could be along those lines .....
When Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis were doing their thing  
ThomasG : 5/18/2023 8:41 am : link
for the Colts a while back they were an excellent tandem coming off the edges.

I recall how adept they were of getting their bodies to twist low and tork underneath and around the outside shoulder/pad level of the opposing Offensive Tackle. And then this gave them a free run at the QB. Match that up with an occasional bull rush or spin move and the OTs were left guessing what was coming.
To me the answer is multiple moves  
Rudy5757 : 5/18/2023 9:05 am : link
If you listen to the good pass rushers, they set the Tackle up by doing the same move and then in a key situation make it look like they are using that same move again and then switch it up. It could be a spin, could be inside, a delay.

Thibs specialty is the speed rush because he has a quick get off. I think he needs to fake the outside and go inside more often but its also dependent on his assignment and the QB. Against Hurts you have to stay in your assignment to protect against the run.
Basically if you can't just beat the Tackle physically,  
PatersonPlank : 5/18/2023 9:19 am : link
meaning speed rush around him or just bull rush right through him, then it becomes all about leverage. Get the Tackle going one way and then spin/swim/whatever the other way. It can be a real cat and mouse game.
An inside move...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/19/2023 9:49 am : link
...can be a great option unless the pass rusher has contain, especially vs a capable running QB. The force player must maintain his gap responsibility.

I'm a big fan of push-pull especially if the tape shows any tendency that the OL will lean.
RE: Basically if you can't just beat the Tackle physically,  
Angel Eyes : 5/27/2023 5:05 pm : link
In comment 16118937 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
meaning speed rush around him or just bull rush right through him, then it becomes all about leverage. Get the Tackle going one way and then spin/swim/whatever the other way. It can be a real cat and mouse game.

The cat and mouse game is something I've been thinking about for months, just seemed like the Giants would lose it a lot. What I especially don't get is bull-rushing a tackle from a two-point stance, you lose leverage every time and no other moves were made from that point, the edge just locked up. I was in a sport (not football) with a lot of one-on-ones where if you weren't quicker than your opponent or didn't have a plan to out-think them if you weren't quick enough, you'd lose.
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