for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Thoughts on Wink Martindale

Y28 : 5/18/2023 11:17 am
Tomorrow Don "Wink" Martindale turns 60.

In January, the Giants almost lost Wink to a Head Coaching job opportunity in Indy.

Wink actually asked that his name be dropped from consideration when owner Jim Irsay said that taking the top job was subject to Wink keeping DC Gus Bradley and DB coach Ron Milus-quite a break for the Giants.

Seeing the value of Martindale to the current Giants team, it certainly appears that the Administration has gone out of their way to keep Wink happy with player additions:

In the opening hours of free agency- DT Rakeem Nunez-Roches was signed. He was certainly a name not discussed often in the media, but Schoen said before the start of free agency that he working to find players that fit what Martindale wanted for his D.

Shortly thereafter, we learned that the Giants were putting the bulk of their free agent dollars into LB Bobby Okereke, an obvious team need, and while several highly valued linebackers (including the Bills Tremaine Edmunds) were available, the Giants wanted Okereke-certainly following input from Wink.

Though Calais Campbell signed with the Falcons, he indicated when interviewed that he was also being pursued by the Giants. Remember that Campbell had played for Wink in Baltimore-another indication that Schoen was trying to add players that Wink wanted.

Lesser known DBs Amani Oruwariye and Bobby McCain were also signed as free agents-both described as players that would fit well in a Martindale defense.

For all Giants fans, the excitement of A'Shawn Robinson meeting with the team brought hope-and then nothing. But Schoen then surprised everyone when just prior to the draft, Robinson was signed to become another crucial fit to Martindale's defense.

Next came the draft, and Joe Schoen has told us that his back still hurts from the bear hug he got from Martindale when Deonte Banks was signed. All told, the Giants used 4 of their 7 draft picks on defense, with each player being described as a "perfect fit" for a Martindale D.

Clearly the Giants are doing everything possible from a player standpoint to give Martindale the defense he wants.

But what about other incentives to keep Wink a Giant? Most coaches sign for 2 year contracts. Though the Giants rarely discuss coaches contracts, is it possible that Wink has been extended another year? Or perhaps a raise based on his 2022 success.

Surely every NFL coach has desires to eventually become a Head Coach. But Wink will be 60 tomorrow. He has quickly become loved by Giants fans throughout the NY area. Joe Schoen has responded to Wink in an overwhelming way, as I have listed all the player adds to the D.

There is little doubt that some day the Giants will lose Mike Kafka to another team as their head coach. With Daboll and the experienced current staff already on Offense, the team can manage that lose.

But a loss of Martindale (who would probably take LB coach Drew Wilkins with him) would be a serious setback.

Let's hope that the Giants have done what fans don't see (salary and contract term) adjusted in a way that will keep Wink in NY for the rest of his years as an NFL coach. There is no question Schoen has done everything possible to provide him the type of players he coveted.

Hoping more has gone on that we haven't heard about that keeps him here long term.

Happy 60th Birthday Coach !!



In hindsight  
cjac : 5/18/2023 11:24 am : link
he should have been hired as HC over Joe Judge in 2020
great post  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/18/2023 11:25 am : link
and yes, if Martindale leaves, I bet you Wilkins becomes his DC. He raves about him.
I would love  
mavric : 5/18/2023 11:29 am : link
it if Wink was our DC coordinator for as long as Daboll is HC; however, I don't think that happens. He'll get poached by some team for a HC position.
good stuff Y28  
Victor in CT : 5/18/2023 11:30 am : link
personally I think hiring a new, 1st time HC at 60 years old isn't likely to happen, and perhaps he would be amenable to stay here with the Giants since they are going out of their way to give him what he needs.
Y28  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/18/2023 11:30 am : link
by the way, the Giants five current area scouts now no longer have any region identified on the Giants.com page. So they may be shuffling the deck there too.
The Giants run defense was awful last year and the new  
mikeinbloomfield : 5/18/2023 11:31 am : link
additions mostly are trying to address that, rather than keep Wink happy, although I'm glad he stayed. The Giants were really good on third down last year, but getting there against better competition (Philly, Dallas) was tough because it was always 2nd and 3 or 4.

If Wink has the guys he needs to win on early downs, I think we'll see a really competent D this year. Once Banks gets his feet under him later in the year, this D has a chance to be really special.
RE: In hindsight  
Blue21 : 5/18/2023 11:32 am : link
In comment 16119013 cjac said:
Quote:
he should have been hired as HC over Joe Judge in 2020
Yep sometimes the smooth talker isn't the right guy. Sometimes reaching for a CEO to coach your team isn't the right fit. When what you need is a people person manager. Which ironically is what I think they have now.
Catch22  
Finch : 5/18/2023 11:33 am : link
with all these additions and we have a good defense next year, is Wink gone?

Are we pigeonholing ourselves to hire a new DC that runs a similar system as Wink, or do we hire the best candidate and need to shift again next year to retooling a defense that fits what the new DC wants?
Good  
Y28 : 5/18/2023 11:36 am : link
Catch Eric. Curious what is taking so long to clarify that staff.

Another Wilkins point, his brother is also now assisting with coaching the D.
Overall liked the Martindale hire  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/18/2023 11:43 am : link
definitely better than other head scratching DCs from previous regimes. Personally I'm not in love with a blitz heavy D and prefer a more bend but don't break Fangio Cover 6. But with the right personnel (two good man corners are ideal), Wink's D should be fine.
I understand the NFL preference right now for young offensive minded  
Dinger : 5/18/2023 11:52 am : link
coaches. What I think smart teams have figured out is that which side of the ball they are on doesn't matter. Maybe they will also come to realize age doesn't matter. Its understanding players, being able to get the most out of them and building trust or a 'family' as is now so often thrown around when describing the atmosphere at Giants HQ. I look at McDaniel down in Miami and I have been skeptical of this teenage looking never played football genius. He's been able to get more out of Tua and even a Tua-less offense by working with what he has. I look at what Wink did with guys like Ximines, Crowder, a host of DBs and LB's who signed mid season and he had the defense out performing the talent. Maybe there's a personality flaw in there that GMs/owners pick up on in the interview process, but when a coach can get a team to out perform their perceived talent level a HC needy team is foolish to pass him by.
Nice post Y28  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/18/2023 11:53 am : link
Good point about the 3rd downs from Mike. Stop the run and hits, sacks and turnovers (big problem) should all go up.

JS said he had to make adjustments this past draft from his first one based on the coaches input. Hopefully good things translate to the field.

With his background with ILB's it would be great to have two studs manning those spots.

If healthy, I'm hopeful they will be a top 10 D.

RE: In hindsight  
Chris in Philly : 5/18/2023 12:02 pm : link
In comment 16119013 cjac said:
Quote:
he should have been hired as HC over Joe Judge in 2020


JJ was a disaster, but there's no guarantee Wink will be a good head coach. He might have flamed out too. Ya never know...
If Wink lands a job next year  
Ben in Tampa : 5/18/2023 12:06 pm : link
He probably takes Wilkins…. And would he also try to bring along a guy like Shea Tierney?
Asst. HC title is also in their back pocket is another gesture  
George from PA : 5/18/2023 12:19 pm : link
With Daboll, Kafka would be easier to deal with....and due to his minority status would bring a draft pick if he signed somewhere.

I would love to keep Daboll and Wink together.

With a full compliment of players, Wink can produce a top 5 defense!
 
christian : 5/18/2023 12:26 pm : link
The flip side of the coin is the Giants only have meaningful resources invested in Lawrence, Okereke, Thibs, and Banks.

If Wink is gone next year, a new coordinator will be able to make use of a 3-down outside linebacker, 3-down inside linebacker, an IDL who can play both techniques, and a corner who displayed comfort in press and zone in college.

Schoen has done a good job of filling in the blanks with low risk, low investment players. And looks like his plan is to refresh that each year.
I just hope he doesn't break somebody's rib with those hugs.  
Klaatu : 5/18/2023 12:30 pm : link
.....
Wink  
Professor Falken : 5/18/2023 1:01 pm : link
got a big hug from Chris Mara in the new draft video that was just released.
I'm excited to see how his defense looks with better  
Metnut : 5/18/2023 1:07 pm : link
personnel. The defense got ran over pretty bad in some big games and I think some new beef up front and at ILB will help here.

I'd be surprised if Wink gets a HC job. A 60+ year old defense first guy getting his first HC gig at that age seems like a longshot. Hopefully he gets a 5+ year run in NY as an elite and highly paid d-coordinator.
We have had so much instability over the years at DC  
beatrixkiddo : 5/18/2023 1:07 pm : link
I really hope they can keep Martindale here for the rest of his career, not sure there are many landing spots in places that would take a 60 year old Defensive minded HC. He’s also gotten more out of players that we have seen since prime Spags, I really don’t want to see someone come in and play Dex out of position again and waste his talents as a talented pocket collapser. I think if this offense takes a step forward Kafka is more likely to get plucked first. Young offenive minded coordinators are the hot trend for new HC gigs and I think Kafka’s arrow is pointing up.
RE: Asst. HC title is also in their back pocket is another gesture  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/18/2023 1:17 pm : link
In comment 16119077 George from PA said:
Quote:
With Daboll, Kafka would be easier to deal with....and due to his minority status would bring a draft pick if he signed somewhere.

I would love to keep Daboll and Wink together.

With a full compliment of players, Wink can produce a top 5 defense!

AHC is a largely meaningless title (unless it means something to Wink personally). If they want to make a grand gesture to Wink in order to keep him, they can just keep reminding themselves that the coaching staff salaries do not count against the cap.
On Wink  
ElitoCanton : 5/18/2023 1:25 pm : link
I think it is reaching the point where it is unlikely he gets a head coaching job. About a 60 percent chance he's our DC for a while. I think we lose Kafka after this season.
This off-season was  
Big Blue '56 : 5/18/2023 1:27 pm : link
most likely his best and last chance at a HC jon, imo..Spags was young at the time, but iirc, he was paid one of the highest DC salaries in the league. The Giants will hqve no problem coughing up the big bucks if necessary, imv
jon=job  
Big Blue '56 : 5/18/2023 1:28 pm : link
.
RE: This off-season was  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/18/2023 1:43 pm : link
In comment 16119136 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
most likely his best and last chance at a HC jon, imo..Spags was young at the time, but iirc, he was paid one of the highest DC salaries in the league. The Giants will hqve no problem coughing up the big bucks if necessary, imv

Agreed - the Giants have shown that they'll pay up good money to retain good coaches.

They've also shown they'll pay up even more money to get rid of bad coaches, but that's a separate conversation!
RE: RE: This off-season was  
Big Blue '56 : 5/18/2023 1:45 pm : link
In comment 16119160 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16119136 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


most likely his best and last chance at a HC jon, imo..Spags was young at the time, but iirc, he was paid one of the highest DC salaries in the league. The Giants will hqve no problem coughing up the big bucks if necessary, imv


Agreed - the Giants have shown that they'll pay up good money to retain good coaches.

They've also shown they'll pay up even more money to get rid of bad coaches, but that's a separate conversation!


😂
There comes a time in one’s professional career when  
gersh : 5/18/2023 1:52 pm : link
they decide what is most important to them.

Wink seems wise enough to know that being a DC in a place where you get to run your D and like your HC and GM has a real value. And, as Parcells famously said it seems like they are “letting him shop for some of the groceries”

I’m not saying he won’t leave - but both his options and worthy situations are less likely as time passes.
Him staying here makes a lot PD sense.
Wonder how Wink views  
kelly : 5/18/2023 2:02 pm : link
Being a HC or becoming a legendary defensive coordinator for the NY Giants

Which would he prefer?

Bringing the Giant's defense back to old glory in the NYC market will provide many endorsement opportunities and he will be well compensated by the organization.

Giant fans love a gteat defense.
RE: Wonder how Wink views  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/18/2023 2:10 pm : link
In comment 16119182 kelly said:
Quote:
Being a HC or becoming a legendary defensive coordinator for the NY Giants

Which would he prefer?

Bringing the Giant's defense back to old glory in the NYC market will provide many endorsement opportunities and he will be well compensated by the organization.

Giant fans love a gteat defense.

I think being a DC for a great organization with plenty of history (especially on the defensive side of the ball) is alluring, and probably helps Wink be that much more selective about opportunities. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that even the best DC gig on the planet would be on the same level as a HC opportunity with a stable organization (though to be fair, most of the HC spots that open up are with dysfunctional teams, obviously).

These guys are intense competitors, and I think that tends to carry over to their own ambition also. Wink may be very happy as DC of the Giants, but I don't think he'll ever stop considering HC opportunities until the opportunities themselves dry up, especially if HC has ever been his aspiration.
RE: Wonder how Wink views  
D HOS : 5/18/2023 2:13 pm : link
In comment 16119182 kelly said:
Quote:
a legendary defensive coordinator for the NY Giants


I like the sound of that! I don't want to project too much but I think we all can see that possibility.

Selfishly, I like Wink right where he is for all the reasons we discuss. Selfishly, I hope he feels that being a critical part of a team with great synergy, is better than being the boss of a pile of crap.
i cant find the quote  
cjac : 5/18/2023 2:32 pm : link
but I thought i remember him saying to the press last year that he came here with long term thoughts in mind, not to use it as a stepping stone to a HC job
I like that he doesn't get scared by a lack of talent.  
an_idol_mind : 5/18/2023 3:21 pm : link
I feel that the last couple of defensive coordinators this team had went into a "safe mode" because they lacked talent and tried to minimize big plays, instead turning the defense into a sieve where anyone could get 8-10 yards per play.

Wink's defense this past season was no great shakes, but I feel like he was still trusting the players to do their jobs.
RE: i cant find the quote  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/18/2023 3:37 pm : link
In comment 16119214 cjac said:
Quote:
but I thought i remember him saying to the press last year that he came here with long term thoughts in mind, not to use it as a stepping stone to a HC job

Maybe, but one year in and he took the first HC interview that presented itself, so even if his original intent wasn't a stepping stone, he doesn't seem resistant to it.

I think Wink would very much like to be a HC if the right situation arose, and is simultaneously very content to be a highly respected DC with a good franchise that treats him well (especially every other Thursday).

But the idea that he has no aspiration or desire to be a HC went out the window when he interviewed with Irsay. That said, Wink also did withdraw from that search, so that's what tells me that he remains interested in becoming a HC, but only if the opportunity was worth it and on his own terms.
How successful  
Torn Tendon : 5/18/2023 5:42 pm : link
has the Wink assistants been when they've moved on to other opportunities? My concern is would the team be able to build on what Wink has put in or would they have to do a rebuild?
TT  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/18/2023 6:11 pm : link
I am only aware of Mike McDonald who is the current DC with Baltimore. Worked under Wink and went to Michigan for a year and came back as DC. Ravens were a outstanding D held Cincy to like 200 yards in the playoff loss. I wonder if Harbaugh was anxious to bring him back as Wink said something like it's good to be appreciated again.

I was most excited for that system that just seems to churn out good D after D replacing players along the way. I hope that process is learned well by the Giants if he goes.

RE: Catch22  
Red Right Hand : 5/18/2023 7:23 pm : link
In comment 16119034 Finch said:
Quote:
with all these additions and we have a good defense next year, is Wink gone?

Are we pigeonholing ourselves to hire a new DC that runs a similar system as Wink, or do we hire the best candidate and need to shift again next year to retooling a defense that fits what the new DC wants?
An interesting question, since, when Schoen was hired, he specifically said he did NOT want to do that, and then, that's exactly what he did. Not cvomplaining, but it's interesting how real world dynamics can dictate choices VS an ideal of what one would do in a given situation. I think it's safe to say that at the moment everyone is happy, and it's also pretty clear that if Wink leaves, these very specific players WOULD gave to be swapped out, either for the next DCs needs, OR to get the one size fits all ideal Schoen spoke of when he was hired. They may not, in fact, exist. Either way, retool if he leaves is what's on the table, to my eye.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/18/2023 7:35 pm : link
I'm torn how I feel about Wink in terms of him not getting a HC gig. I'm bummed for him, as he seems like that is what he wants & he's no spring chicken, seeing that he turns the big 6-0 tomorrow. And I can't think of one coach who got his first HC gig at 60 or older so I fear-for his sake-his chance of being an NFL HC has sailed. On the other hand, I'm stoked he's our DC. And I hope he's here for awhile.
RE: i cant find the quote  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/18/2023 7:41 pm : link
In comment 16119214 cjac said:
Quote:
but I thought i remember him saying to the press last year that he came here with long term thoughts in mind, not to use it as a stepping stone to a HC job


No, he's actually made the opposite clear since he's been here.
The recent trend is for younger Head Coaches....  
Simms11 : 5/19/2023 7:50 am : link
Could he hired, sure, but what makes everyone think he'd be a good HC? He reminds me of Wade Phillips a bit. Really good DC, terrible HC
I've been reluctant with Wink;  
Angel Eyes : 5/19/2023 7:53 am : link
a lot of the stuff he's emphasized has rubbed me the wrong way. His emphasis on pressures and scheme reminds me too much of Dave Gettleman and his positionless defense of the amoeba defense of Patrick Graham, which has its shortcomings. Also, can he solve the linebackers' problems in pass coverage?
I found  
Y28 : 5/19/2023 8:03 am : link
a Dan Duggan article that speaks to the Martindale hire. Its on a paid site and from months ago, but I will show a few clips:

"Wink Martindale was in the coaches’ meeting room at Giants headquarters interviewing for the defensive coordinator position in February when he was summoned to meet with general manager Joe Schoen.

Martindale left his cellphone on the meeting room table when he stepped out. It rang, and Giants defensive backs coach Jerome Henderson couldn’t help but notice the caller ID featuring the name of a head coach from another team in the market for a defensive coordinator.

A few minutes passed and another call came from the head coach, who presumably had gotten wind Martindale was interviewing with the Giants and wanted to make his pitch before anything was finalized. When Giants head coach Brian Daboll returned to the room, Henderson made him aware of the competition to hire Martindale, who had already made a strong impression.

“I see his phone is blowing up. I told Daboll,” Henderson said. “And then it’s ringing again, and I was like, ‘You better do something quick.’”

The Giants didn’t waste any time. Daboll made an offer, Martindale accepted and neither has looked back.

Daboll didn’t hesitate, and the Giants gave Martindale a three-year contract, a year longer than the typical coordinator deal."

So, right from the start, Wink had a 3 year contract with the Giants.
RE: I've been reluctant with Wink;  
mfsd : 5/19/2023 8:36 am : link
In comment 16119481 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
a lot of the stuff he's emphasized has rubbed me the wrong way. His emphasis on pressures and scheme reminds me too much of Dave Gettleman and his positionless defense of the amoeba defense of Patrick Graham, which has its shortcomings. Also, can he solve the linebackers' problems in pass coverage?


To be fair, considering the LBs we were running out there last year, I don’t think Dom Capers or Belichick or any of the best DCs ever could have solved the LB pass coverage weakness last year.

Let’s see how we do with Okereke and hopefully overall better talent at LB this year. All the best schemes in the world will fail without the players capable of executing
RE: I've been reluctant with Wink;  
BigBlueShock : 5/19/2023 8:39 am : link
In comment 16119481 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
a lot of the stuff he's emphasized has rubbed me the wrong way. His emphasis on pressures and scheme reminds me too much of Dave Gettleman and his positionless defense of the amoeba defense of Patrick Graham, which has its shortcomings. Also, can he solve the linebackers' problems in pass coverage?

If Winks defense reminds you of Patrick Grahams defense you’re watching football wrong.

They literally couldn’t be any more different. Polar opposites.
RE: The recent trend is for younger Head Coaches....  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/19/2023 10:50 am : link
In comment 16119480 Simms11 said:
Quote:
Could he hired, sure, but what makes everyone think he'd be a good HC? He reminds me of Wade Phillips a bit. Really good DC, terrible HC


One reason I liked the Wink hire (at least much preferred over previous head scratching DC hires) is hiring him is a bit of zigging while everyone is zagging. The rest of the league is fighting over trendy young coaches scraps while we basically get the pick of the litter of the old fart coaches.
perhaps  
nyfootballfan : 5/19/2023 3:12 pm : link
he could be a long term veteran fixture ala dick lebeau?
Daboll  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/19/2023 4:39 pm : link
said it was very challenging preparing for his defense which I think he faced twice in Buffalo. Cosell also said the same when he speaks to DC's.
Thought he did a great job last year  
RetroJint : 5/20/2023 11:04 am : link
With what he had . I don’t hold it against him for the lousy performances against Dallas and Philadelphia . He and his staff did an incredible job of getting guys ready to contribute who just came in off the street . Season 2 is going to be even more challenging , given that both the Eagles and the Cowboys look appreciably stronger .

A personal issue that I like to address is one somebody says of a player : “He’s Wink’s kind of guy .” That usually means long corners who can Bogart and turn without penalties . Well who likes short , slow corners ? Who likes inside linebackers who can’t move across the field ? Who likes fat slob defensive tackles who get blown out against the run? That characterization has always bugged me . When you say the Giants are getting Wink’s kind of players , what that means , hopefully , is that they are good players . Football is football. Everybody is looking for the same qualities .
RE: RE: I've been reluctant with Wink;  
Angel Eyes : 5/23/2023 3:36 pm : link
In comment 16119493 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 16119481 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


a lot of the stuff he's emphasized has rubbed me the wrong way. His emphasis on pressures and scheme reminds me too much of Dave Gettleman and his positionless defense of the amoeba defense of Patrick Graham, which has its shortcomings. Also, can he solve the linebackers' problems in pass coverage?


If Winks defense reminds you of Patrick Grahams defense you’re watching football wrong.

They literally couldn’t be any more different. Polar opposites.

Funny thing; a lot of talk about Wink's defense was also applied to Graham's when he arrived and others extolled: blitzing, emphasis on defensive backs, being multiple.
Back to the Corner