Giants CAP space update

Running the team now. I’ve always said that Gettleman was a scout, playing the role of General Manager. The GM’s job is a ton more than scouting talent.

OTC also estimates the Giants effective cap space (51 man inclusive of draft class) at 1.4M. Schmitz isn't accounted for, any guess on what else isn't?

probably related to this:

"New York Giants S Terrell Burgess (undisclosed) was waived from the reserve/physically unable to perform list with an injury settlement on Tuesday, May 16".

Is definitely a better road to success.

As the Giants close the talent gap, we can be hopeful that the team culture and coaching will continue to help them (over) achieve.

It just stands to reason that improved drafts/free agent acquisitions that fit the system + another year in the system = improved play.

See below...





Salary Cap Space - As of May 19, 2023 - OverTheCap.com - ( New Window )

In comment 16119517 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

See below... Salary Cap Space - As of May 19, 2023 - OverTheCap.com - ( New Window )

But, barring the unforeseen, we should be in solid cap shape next year with the anticipated cap increase, yes?

I know there’s been a lot of discussion of how the Eagles structure contracts, but….huh? The two above them - Rams and Bucs are certainly showing the effects

Perhaps someone can fill us in, but are they from the void years Roseman keeps doing?

1 - Extend Tyrod Taylor and bring down his current cap number of $6.9M. He's got the 8th highest cap number on the team---one spot ahead of Dexter Lawrence, lol! They can easily bring this down with a one-year extension (Taylor's gonna be 34 this coming season and is clearly the #2 QB).

2 - Extend Leonard Williams...again. He's got the highest cap number on the team, by FAAAR ($32,260,000---slightly $10.5M more than DJ). He's gonna be 29 this coming season with the 2024 season listed as being a void year on the Giants' books. Extend him by another season or two if the medicals check out and lower that number unless yo want him gone next season so as to clear the slate. Both options are on the tale and are entirely feasible.

3 - They can also extend Adoree' Jackson, who's gonna be 28 this coming season. He's got the 3rd highest cap number on the team after Big Cat and DJ at $19,076,568. The 2024 season is on the books as a void year, so they can also clear their accounting slate of him in 2024 if they so choose. It seems like the consensus is that they won't extend him, whereas Big Cat is undecided.

4 - Sign Barkley to a multi-year extension. Right now Barkley is on the books at $10,091,000. He's got the 5th highest cap number on the team, sandwiched between Andrew Thomas and Mark Glowinski. If Barkley's All-Star agent, Kim Miale, comes to terms with the Giants, then Barkley's cap number will go down a few mill, just as Dexter Lawrence's did.

5 - The Giants can also fiddle around with Mark Glowinski's contract and shift his $4.65M base salary into bonus money, but that's probably not something they'd like to do if they can avoid it since he'll be 31 this season and 2024 being the last year of his deal. Glowinski's got the 6th highest cap number on the Giants after Barkley and before Thibs.

is gone after 2023. But, remember it tends to dry up fast.

In comment 16119518 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 16119517 Optimus-NY said: Quote: See below... Salary Cap Space - As of May 19, 2023 - OverTheCap.com - ( New Window ) But, barring the unforeseen, we should be in solid cap shape next year with the anticipated cap increase, yes?

Yes. They just need to continue to look a couple of years into the future and pay the appropriate positions commensurately. Andrew Thomas will be EXPENSIVE. Get ready. Therefore, the Giants can't go crazy overpaying a running back, especially an injury prone one like Barkley. The Giants are playing a game of chicken with him and won't move. Remember that McKinney is going to be heading into free agency into 2024. They might tag him next year too. The priority is Thomas though, followed by McKinney.

Another thing to keep in mind is that team with pricey QBs need to reduce costs at other positions. The absolute BEST way to do that is via the draft. Get platers at expensive positions, such as EDGE rusher, WR, and CB via the draft. They're great to nab in the 1st round because you can get them on a rookie deal with a 5th guaranteed season.

Good cap shape is never about a free cap space number.

Good cap shape is first and foremost measured in how many bad contracts you have on the books (quality of dollars spent).

Then it's measured in if you have enough money to field a team that can improve YoY.

In comment 16119495 JoeyBigBlue said:

Quote:

Running the team now. I’ve always said that Gettleman was a scout, playing the role of General Manager. The GM’s job is a ton more than scouting talent.

I'm not really disagreeing with you but people have short memories. Gettleman came into a shitty situation and fixed our cap too. We had that year where we had so much room that we front loaded contracts which was great. The problem was more Mara. And what I mean by that is you should NEVER EVER give your GM the talk where it is win or you're out. Every time it ends the same way and that is a GM overspending in FA to get that immediate fix. Gentleman's issue wasn't working with the cap. His issue was hiring bad HCs and too many bad FA signings. He had some good ones too but too many expensive bad ones. The pressure of losing did him in.

We have cap requirements that will take the $4m down to $1.4m. That’s probably signing JMS, the two additional players to get to 53 and the PS. So, to get to the $5-7m in season operating space we need another $4-5m. Signing vet min players has little effect on the cap so that’s possible. Be interesting to see where that money comes from.

you don't really want it. the best place to be is middle of the pack because that means you are extending your own talent at better rates/structures than ufa will give you but have the flexibility to stretch if you needed it selectively.

you want a stable core that adds a few veteran pieces here and there (like buf with a von miller).

you dont want to be desperately spending like the broncos the the last couple years. all things considered they've been relatively smart about it and the payton/russ combo could be good enough to overcome any cap issues, but it's not ideal to have to buy 5x45m+ starters from UFA in a 2 year period (that's not even counting russ). obviously different regimes but they gave a 30yo gregory a 5x70m last year and he missed half the year. dj jones underperformed too and between those 2 they have more than 20m of dead money liability if they want to move on after this year.

the new regime tripled down with zach allen, ben powers, and mcglinchey this year but they almost had to because if they cant make the russ situation work nothing else matters and they had no picks.

the nyg class of 2016 was actually close to a best case outcome of a big UFA shopping spree and we know how fine the margins were there (and what the end results were 3-4 years down the line).

In comment 16119537 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

In comment 16119518 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: In comment 16119517 Optimus-NY said: Quote: See below... Salary Cap Space - As of May 19, 2023 - OverTheCap.com - ( New Window ) But, barring the unforeseen, we should be in solid cap shape next year with the anticipated cap increase, yes? Yes. They just need to continue to look a couple of years into the future and pay the appropriate positions commensurately. Andrew Thomas will be EXPENSIVE. Get ready. Therefore, the Giants can't go crazy overpaying a running back, especially an injury prone one like Barkley. The Giants are playing a game of chicken with him and won't move. Remember that McKinney is going to be heading into free agency into 2024. They might tag him next year too. The priority is Thomas though, followed by McKinney. Another thing to keep in mind is that team with pricey QBs need to reduce costs at other positions. The absolute BEST way to do that is via the draft. Get platers at expensive positions, such as EDGE rusher, WR, and CB via the draft. They're great to nab in the 1st round because you can get them on a rookie deal with a 5th guaranteed season.

Theyhave to room in 2024 to extend AT and X. Once they cut a glowinski next yr, maybe around 60 million. That’s without keeping saquon, Leo and adoree past 2023
They can also keep them plus do extensions but that would leave cap room probably around 25 million in 2024
Would like some cap space in case they go for wr1 next yr in a trade


Bottom line. They are signing their best players

Should just cut Darnay Holmes. This will leave them with around 5 mill in cap space (after signing Schmitz) and that should be enough to get through the season.

I would not extend Leonard Williams or Adoree Jackson. Those guys are good players but extending them won’t be cheap.

In comment 16119530 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

1 - Extend Tyrod Taylor and bring down his current cap number of $6.9M. He's got the 8th highest cap number on the team---one spot ahead of Dexter Lawrence, lol! They can easily bring this down with a one-year extension (Taylor's gonna be 34 this coming season and is clearly the #2 QB). 2 - Extend Leonard Williams...again. He's got the highest cap number on the team, by FAAAR ($32,260,000---slightly $10.5M more than DJ). He's gonna be 29 this coming season with the 2024 season listed as being a void year on the Giants' books. Extend him by another season or two if the medicals check out and lower that number unless yo want him gone next season so as to clear the slate. Both options are on the tale and are entirely feasible. 3 - They can also extend Adoree' Jackson, who's gonna be 28 this coming season. He's got the 3rd highest cap number on the team after Big Cat and DJ at $19,076,568. The 2024 season is on the books as a void year, so they can also clear their accounting slate of him in 2024 if they so choose. It seems like the consensus is that they won't extend him, whereas Big Cat is undecided. 4 - Sign Barkley to a multi-year extension. Right now Barkley is on the books at $10,091,000. He's got the 5th highest cap number on the team, sandwiched between Andrew Thomas and Mark Glowinski. If Barkley's All-Star agent, Kim Miale, comes to terms with the Giants, then Barkley's cap number will go down a few mill, just as Dexter Lawrence's did. 5 - The Giants can also fiddle around with Mark Glowinski's contract and shift his $4.65M base salary into bonus money, but that's probably not something they'd like to do if they can avoid it since he'll be 31 this season and 2024 being the last year of his deal. Glowinski's got the 6th highest cap number on the Giants after Barkley and before Thibs.

Completely against all these options. All these players should not be here past this year.

In comment 16119587 JoeyBigBlue said:

Quote:

In comment 16119530 Optimus-NY said: Quote: 1 - Extend Tyrod Taylor and bring down his current cap number of $6.9M. He's got the 8th highest cap number on the team---one spot ahead of Dexter Lawrence, lol! They can easily bring this down with a one-year extension (Taylor's gonna be 34 this coming season and is clearly the #2 QB). 2 - Extend Leonard Williams...again. He's got the highest cap number on the team, by FAAAR ($32,260,000---slightly $10.5M more than DJ). He's gonna be 29 this coming season with the 2024 season listed as being a void year on the Giants' books. Extend him by another season or two if the medicals check out and lower that number unless yo want him gone next season so as to clear the slate. Both options are on the tale and are entirely feasible. 3 - They can also extend Adoree' Jackson, who's gonna be 28 this coming season. He's got the 3rd highest cap number on the team after Big Cat and DJ at $19,076,568. The 2024 season is on the books as a void year, so they can also clear their accounting slate of him in 2024 if they so choose. It seems like the consensus is that they won't extend him, whereas Big Cat is undecided. 4 - Sign Barkley to a multi-year extension. Right now Barkley is on the books at $10,091,000. He's got the 5th highest cap number on the team, sandwiched between Andrew Thomas and Mark Glowinski. If Barkley's All-Star agent, Kim Miale, comes to terms with the Giants, then Barkley's cap number will go down a few mill, just as Dexter Lawrence's did. 5 - The Giants can also fiddle around with Mark Glowinski's contract and shift his $4.65M base salary into bonus money, but that's probably not something they'd like to do if they can avoid it since he'll be 31 this season and 2024 being the last year of his deal. Glowinski's got the 6th highest cap number on the Giants after Barkley and before Thibs. Completely against all these options. All these players should not be here past this year.

who are you adding that's better than all of them and how?

why would any UFA that's better than anyone in the group above also be cheaper?

or have you already committed to drafting those 5 positions with the 2024 draft class?

In comment 16119583 JoeyBigBlue said:

Quote:

Should just cut Darnay Holmes. This will leave them with around 5 mill in cap space (after signing Schmitz) and that should be enough to get through the season. I would not extend Leonard Williams or Adoree Jackson. Those guys are good players but extending them won’t be cheap.

Big Blue Banter had a cap guy on their video recently and he brought up these increases.

Basically the player is screwed unless he's an impact kind of talent. Slayton wasn't, thus the Giants almost cut him and he had a pay cut. Holmes is not irreplaceable and the same decision can be made. Drop down his salary or be cut (traded?). None of it is guaranteed.

.

In comment 16119519 gersh said:

Quote:

I know there’s been a lot of discussion of how the Eagles structure contracts, but….huh? The two above them - Rams and Bucs are certainly showing the effects

I think the difference is Rams and Bucs have/had aging quarterbacks on huge deals with Stanford and Brady whose production flipped from elevating the team to being a drag on it. They are paying for it now with little to show.

The Eagles have Hurts, who is an ascending player and helping elevate the team. Basically Philly got the timing right.

thank you for posting.

JS said Leo is still a high level player "when healthy". Curious to see how he handles that situation.

Gersh; I agree about paying your best players. Chiefs are getting very big impacts from multiple players still on their first contract while paying fewer players big money.

In comment 16119593 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

In comment 16119587 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: In comment 16119530 Optimus-NY said: Quote: 1 - Extend Tyrod Taylor and bring down his current cap number of $6.9M. He's got the 8th highest cap number on the team---one spot ahead of Dexter Lawrence, lol! They can easily bring this down with a one-year extension (Taylor's gonna be 34 this coming season and is clearly the #2 QB). 2 - Extend Leonard Williams...again. He's got the highest cap number on the team, by FAAAR ($32,260,000---slightly $10.5M more than DJ). He's gonna be 29 this coming season with the 2024 season listed as being a void year on the Giants' books. Extend him by another season or two if the medicals check out and lower that number unless yo want him gone next season so as to clear the slate. Both options are on the tale and are entirely feasible. 3 - They can also extend Adoree' Jackson, who's gonna be 28 this coming season. He's got the 3rd highest cap number on the team after Big Cat and DJ at $19,076,568. The 2024 season is on the books as a void year, so they can also clear their accounting slate of him in 2024 if they so choose. It seems like the consensus is that they won't extend him, whereas Big Cat is undecided. 4 - Sign Barkley to a multi-year extension. Right now Barkley is on the books at $10,091,000. He's got the 5th highest cap number on the team, sandwiched between Andrew Thomas and Mark Glowinski. If Barkley's All-Star agent, Kim Miale, comes to terms with the Giants, then Barkley's cap number will go down a few mill, just as Dexter Lawrence's did. 5 - The Giants can also fiddle around with Mark Glowinski's contract and shift his $4.65M base salary into bonus money, but that's probably not something they'd like to do if they can avoid it since he'll be 31 this season and 2024 being the last year of his deal. Glowinski's got the 6th highest cap number on the Giants after Barkley and before Thibs. Completely against all these options. All these players should not be here past this year. who are you adding that's better than all of them and how? why would any UFA that's better than anyone in the group above also be cheaper? or have you already committed to drafting those 5 positions with the 2024 draft class?

The toughest one to replace would be Leonard Williams, but you can draft a guy high next season to replace him.

I’m hopeful Banks will replace Adoree as the No. 1 corner. Hopefully one of Flott or Robinson can be No. 2

Backup QB could be found in Free agency

Hopeful Gray is the replacement for Barkley, if not one can be drafted.

Glowinski isn’t a good player. I really hope Bredeson and Ezeudu are the starting guards this year ñ.

In comment 16119598 Ben in Tampa said:

Quote:

In comment 16119519 gersh said: Quote: I know there’s been a lot of discussion of how the Eagles structure contracts, but….huh? The two above them - Rams and Bucs are certainly showing the effects I think the difference is Rams and Bucs have/had aging quarterbacks on huge deals with Stanford and Brady whose production flipped from elevating the team to being a drag on it. They are paying for it now with little to show. The Eagles have Hurts, who is an ascending player and helping elevate the team. Basically Philly got the timing right.

Yes, but I’d like to see how Hirts performs this year with big contract in hand. Dak hasn’t been Dak (injury didn’t help) since his big signing, imv..

In comment 16119551 christian said:

Quote:

Good cap shape is never about a free cap space number. Good cap shape is first and foremost measured in how many bad contracts you have on the books (quality of dollars spent). Then it's measured in if you have enough money to field a team that can improve YoY.

+1,000%. This is so true. The cap is a multi year equation, with a ton of flexibility, but cash spent is cash spent, and when wasted on bad players or brought forward for good players, you will run into cap trouble. The Giants had the former. The Eagles are lining up for the latter in a big way.

In comment 16119605 JoeyBigBlue said:

Quote:

The toughest one to replace would be Leonard Williams, but you can draft a guy high next season to replace him. I’m hopeful Banks will replace Adoree as the No. 1 corner. Hopefully one of Flott or Robinson can be No. 2 Backup QB could be found in Free agency Hopeful Gray is the replacement for Barkley, if not one can be drafted. Glowinski isn’t a good player. I really hope Bredeson and Ezeudu are the starting guards this year ñ.

In comment 16119616 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 16119598 Ben in Tampa said: Quote: In comment 16119519 gersh said: Quote: I know there’s been a lot of discussion of how the Eagles structure contracts, but….huh? The two above them - Rams and Bucs are certainly showing the effects I think the difference is Rams and Bucs have/had aging quarterbacks on huge deals with Stanford and Brady whose production flipped from elevating the team to being a drag on it. They are paying for it now with little to show. The Eagles have Hurts, who is an ascending player and helping elevate the team. Basically Philly got the timing right. Yes, but I’d like to see how Hirts performs this year with big contract in hand. Dak hasn’t been Dak (injury didn’t help) since his big signing, imv..

Hurts

the Giants played an interesting game. They went to Darius and Martinez and said we need paycuts. Slayton said yes and Martinez said no, both of which cleared up cap space. I think this puts a lot of pressure on the player. If they don't take the cut, they have no guarantee of landing at a good spot with good wages at that point in the season. Even if they are a real upgrade for someone, bringing them in late and paying them a lot is tough.

Candidates this year: Darnay Holmes - same situation as Slayton. More controversially - they could really put the screws to LW or AJ. Is someone paying LW $18MM on Sept. 1st? AJ $12MM? If either one has a pedestrian camp, I could definitely seem them being squeezed and maybe let go.

All the players I mentioned were drafted by the Giants (except Bredeson who was traded for). I’m sure the front office believes in them or they wouldn’t be here. In the NFL, everyone can’t be signed and tough decisions have to be made. We are not the Eagles and are not in the position to kick the can down the road like have been doing.

In comment 16119530 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

1 - Extend Tyrod Taylor and bring down his current cap number of $6.9M. He's got the 8th highest cap number on the team---one spot ahead of Dexter Lawrence, lol! They can easily bring this down with a one-year extension (Taylor's gonna be 34 this coming season and is clearly the #2 QB). 2 - Extend Leonard Williams...again. He's got the highest cap number on the team, by FAAAR ($32,260,000---slightly $10.5M more than DJ). He's gonna be 29 this coming season with the 2024 season listed as being a void year on the Giants' books. Extend him by another season or two if the medicals check out and lower that number unless yo want him gone next season so as to clear the slate. Both options are on the tale and are entirely feasible. 3 - They can also extend Adoree' Jackson, who's gonna be 28 this coming season. He's got the 3rd highest cap number on the team after Big Cat and DJ at $19,076,568. The 2024 season is on the books as a void year, so they can also clear their accounting slate of him in 2024 if they so choose. It seems like the consensus is that they won't extend him, whereas Big Cat is undecided. 4 - Sign Barkley to a multi-year extension. Right now Barkley is on the books at $10,091,000. He's got the 5th highest cap number on the team, sandwiched between Andrew Thomas and Mark Glowinski. If Barkley's All-Star agent, Kim Miale, comes to terms with the Giants, then Barkley's cap number will go down a few mill, just as Dexter Lawrence's did. 5 - The Giants can also fiddle around with Mark Glowinski's contract and shift his $4.65M base salary into bonus money, but that's probably not something they'd like to do if they can avoid it since he'll be 31 this season and 2024 being the last year of his deal. Glowinski's got the 6th highest cap number on the Giants after Barkley and before Thibs.

good stuff

I don't think Schoen has overspent on a single contract, big or small.

And I believe he's been willing to absorb near term pain to avoid paying more new cash to players he inherited than he thinks they deserve. Bradberry, Ryan, Martinez, Slayton, Shepard are examples of him not willing to pay the price he inherited.

I could definitely see him putting Williams in the hurt locker over the Summer. I see that more likely than him extending him.

In comment 16119554 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

In comment 16119495 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: Running the team now. I’ve always said that Gettleman was a scout, playing the role of General Manager. The GM’s job is a ton more than scouting talent. I'm not really disagreeing with you but people have short memories. Gettleman came into a shitty situation and fixed our cap too. We had that year where we had so much room that we front loaded contracts which was great. The problem was more Mara. And what I mean by that is you should NEVER EVER give your GM the talk where it is win or you're out. Every time it ends the same way and that is a GM overspending in FA to get that immediate fix. Gentleman's issue wasn't working with the cap. His issue was hiring bad HCs and too many bad FA signings. He had some good ones too but too many expensive bad ones. The pressure of losing did him in.

I'm sorry, what? Gettleman fixed our cap?

In his final season we couldn't afford to field a full 53 man roster by the end of the year because of how badly Gettleman (and Abrams) had screwed up with the cap. And in his first year as GM, Schoen's hands were tied because of how poorly Gettleman (and Abrams) managed the cap.

Gettleman didn't fix anything. There are a few things that he didn't manage to burn completely to the ground, but that's not the same as fixing it.

In comment 16119598 Ben in Tampa said:

Quote:

In comment 16119519 gersh said: Quote: I know there’s been a lot of discussion of how the Eagles structure contracts, but….huh? The two above them - Rams and Bucs are certainly showing the effects I think the difference is Rams and Bucs have/had aging quarterbacks on huge deals with Stanford and Brady whose production flipped from elevating the team to being a drag on it. They are paying for it now with little to show. The Eagles have Hurts, who is an ascending player and helping elevate the team. Basically Philly got the timing right.

The Rams and Bucs both got super bowls with the ‘win now’ cap management so even if they flounder for a couple years it was still a success (and a blueprint for other teams).

Hopefully Philly ends their run without another SB but it’s easy to imagine them getting at least one more before things get blown up.

In comment 16119554 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

In comment 16119495 JoeyBigBlue said: Quote: Running the team now. I’ve always said that Gettleman was a scout, playing the role of General Manager. The GM’s job is a ton more than scouting talent. I'm not really disagreeing with you but people have short memories. Gettleman came into a shitty situation and fixed our cap too. We had that year where we had so much room that we front loaded contracts which was great. The problem was more Mara. And what I mean by that is you should NEVER EVER give your GM the talk where it is win or you're out. Every time it ends the same way and that is a GM overspending in FA to get that immediate fix. Gentleman's issue wasn't working with the cap. His issue was hiring bad HCs and too many bad FA signings. He had some good ones too but too many expensive bad ones. The pressure of losing did him in.

Don't you know you can't say anything positive about the Hog Molly preacher around here!?!?!

In comment 16119897 JoeSchoens11 said:

Quote:

In comment 16119598 Ben in Tampa said: Quote: In comment 16119519 gersh said: Quote: I know there’s been a lot of discussion of how the Eagles structure contracts, but….huh? The two above them - Rams and Bucs are certainly showing the effects I think the difference is Rams and Bucs have/had aging quarterbacks on huge deals with Stanford and Brady whose production flipped from elevating the team to being a drag on it. They are paying for it now with little to show. The Eagles have Hurts, who is an ascending player and helping elevate the team. Basically Philly got the timing right. The Rams and Bucs both got super bowls with the ‘win now’ cap management so even if they flounder for a couple years it was still a success (and a blueprint for other teams). Hopefully Philly ends their run without another SB but it’s easy to imagine them getting at least one more before things get blown up.

Winning one Super Bowl and then tanking is not a blueprint anyone should follow. Building for sustained success is a better model. Very hard to keep a team at the top without a teardown every so often, but with a superior coaching staff it can be done - see the Pats and BB. And yes getting an elite QB eases the burden. But the Rams and Bucs are screwed for a number of years. The Eagles at least have been near the top for several years, even if we hate it. Howie has done a phenomenal job building that team, and he is getting close to the teardown stage. Somehow I think he will come out smelling like a rose - shrewd MFer.

In comment 16120107 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 16119897 JoeSchoens11 said: Quote: In comment 16119598 Ben in Tampa said: Quote: In comment 16119519 gersh said: Quote: I know there’s been a lot of discussion of how the Eagles structure contracts, but….huh? The two above them - Rams and Bucs are certainly showing the effects I think the difference is Rams and Bucs have/had aging quarterbacks on huge deals with Stanford and Brady whose production flipped from elevating the team to being a drag on it. They are paying for it now with little to show. The Eagles have Hurts, who is an ascending player and helping elevate the team. Basically Philly got the timing right. The Rams and Bucs both got super bowls with the ‘win now’ cap management so even if they flounder for a couple years it was still a success (and a blueprint for other teams). Hopefully Philly ends their run without another SB but it’s easy to imagine them getting at least one more before things get blown up. Winning one Super Bowl and then tanking is not a blueprint anyone should follow. Building for sustained success is a better model. Very hard to keep a team at the top without a teardown every so often, but with a superior coaching staff it can be done - see the Pats and BB. And yes getting an elite QB eases the burden. But the Rams and Bucs are screwed for a number of years. The Eagles at least have been near the top for several years, even if we hate it. Howie has done a phenomenal job building that team, and he is getting close to the teardown stage. Somehow I think he will come out smelling like a rose - shrewd MFer.

The blueprint (which absolutely I hate) is that there will be at least one team having an unfair competitive advantage by completely abusing the cap to have a massive roster advantage. If you’re not that team but still a contender then your SB chances take a big hit.

If you are that team, you will eventually have some down years - unless you are the eagles who, as you said, have their long term qb and have gotten absolute steals in picking up additional draft picks.

I can’t imagine any Bucs or Rams fans regret picking up TB or Stafford and getting their rings. Would you trade our last 2 SBs to avoid our 10-year rebuild?

In comment 16120120 JoeSchoens11 said:

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In comment 16120107 section125 said: Quote: In comment 16119897 JoeSchoens11 said: Quote: In comment 16119598 Ben in Tampa said: Quote: In comment 16119519 gersh said: Quote: I know there’s been a lot of discussion of how the Eagles structure contracts, but….huh? The two above them - Rams and Bucs are certainly showing the effects I think the difference is Rams and Bucs have/had aging quarterbacks on huge deals with Stanford and Brady whose production flipped from elevating the team to being a drag on it. They are paying for it now with little to show. The Eagles have Hurts, who is an ascending player and helping elevate the team. Basically Philly got the timing right. The Rams and Bucs both got super bowls with the ‘win now’ cap management so even if they flounder for a couple years it was still a success (and a blueprint for other teams). Hopefully Philly ends their run without another SB but it’s easy to imagine them getting at least one more before things get blown up. Winning one Super Bowl and then tanking is not a blueprint anyone should follow. Building for sustained success is a better model. Very hard to keep a team at the top without a teardown every so often, but with a superior coaching staff it can be done - see the Pats and BB. And yes getting an elite QB eases the burden. But the Rams and Bucs are screwed for a number of years. The Eagles at least have been near the top for several years, even if we hate it. Howie has done a phenomenal job building that team, and he is getting close to the teardown stage. Somehow I think he will come out smelling like a rose - shrewd MFer. The blueprint (which absolutely I hate) is that there will be at least one team having an unfair competitive advantage by completely abusing the cap to have a massive roster advantage. If you’re not that team but still a contender then your SB chances take a big hit. If you are that team, you will eventually have some down years - unless you are the eagles who, as you said, have their long term qb and have gotten absolute steals in picking up additional draft picks. I can’t imagine any Bucs or Rams fans regret picking up TB or Stafford and getting their rings. Would you trade our last 2 SBs to avoid our 10-year rebuild?

10 years was caused by incompetence not shredding the cap. Poor drafting(players and position deficiencies) was the main cause, not over paying crappy players(which was also done to a lesser extent). Reese screwed the pooch and DG did the same with coaching failures.
Huge difference.

In comment 16120123 section125 said:

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removed content for brevity… In comment 16120120 JoeSchoens11 said: I can’t imagine any Bucs or Rams fans regret picking up TB or Stafford and getting their rings. Would you trade our last 2 SBs to avoid our 10-year rebuild? 10 years was caused by incompetence not shredding the cap. Poor drafting(players and position deficiencies) was the main cause, not over paying crappy players(which was also done to a lesser extent). Reese screwed the pooch and DG did the same with coaching failures. Huge difference.

I absolutely agree - a rebuild with good coaching and management should only take a few years. This is why the ‘win now’ cap moves make sense for some teams.

Very few teams can sustain success. Most just get lucky and have an amazing draft and a couple value FA signings - these are the teams that need to strike while in the upswing.

In comment 16119630 JoeyBigBlue said:

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All the players I mentioned were drafted by the Giants (except Bredeson who was traded for). I’m sure the front office believes in them or they wouldn’t be here. In the NFL, everyone can’t be signed and tough decisions have to be made. We are not the Eagles and are not in the position to kick the can down the road like have been doing.

the replacements for the top 2 on your list are unnamed in the future so who knows if they exist or if they will be cheaper than the guys you list.

the next 3 spots on your list included a grab bag of day 3 draft picks as possible replacements, some leftover from the prior regime. hope on day 3 picks in 1 hand.

no you can't resign everyone but by the same token you don't just jettison everyone in the name of cap space unless you have something better to use that cap space on (and something better than a bunch of unkown day 3 picks). that's why williams, barkley, and jackson are still here when they could save almost 30m if cut or traded.

In comment 16119624 mfjmfj said:

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the Giants played an interesting game. They went to Darius and Martinez and said we need paycuts. Slayton said yes and Martinez said no, both of which cleared up cap space. I think this puts a lot of pressure on the player. If they don't take the cut, they have no guarantee of landing at a good spot with good wages at that point in the season. Even if they are a real upgrade for someone, bringing them in late and paying them a lot is tough. Candidates this year: Darnay Holmes - same situation as Slayton. More controversially - they could really put the screws to LW or AJ. Is someone paying LW $18MM on Sept. 1st? AJ $12MM? If either one has a pedestrian camp, I could definitely seem them being squeezed and maybe let go.

Neither LW and AJ are in that situation. Both are unquestionably starters. The Giants can’t afford to lose either player.

Holmes on the other hand is a guy fighting for a roster spot. He will most likely asked to take a pay cut provided he is not one of the top 3 at camps end. I’m assuming it’s Aj, banks and Flott with the rest battling for the remaining spots. Holmes seems to be well liked by Wink though.

and the Giants need a few mill of space during the season to operate, I don't really see them signing anyone outside of maybe minimum contracts.

They could restructure or extend to free up some space, but based on how they operated last year, they aren't going to sacrifice much future cap for this year.

If they let Adoree and Williams go after this year, they will have about $40M available for next year. That doesn't go a long way outside 1 or 2 key FA signings.