As Knick fans, I think we all agree this is another big off season for the overall direction of the franchise. Leon Rose has drafted very well and has done an admirable job positioning the Knicks for long term success. Now the hard part begins, moving the Knicks from good to great.
Rumors abound that Harden goes back to Houston and could that have an impact on Embiid’s relationship with the team. I know there are some who are adamant that he’s not going anywhere but since this is a forum where hypotheticals (fantastical or not) can be discussed, I wanted to ask others what they think a package for Embiid would look like?
Obi, IQ, Grimes, Fournier, Rose + 6 firsts?
That being said what I think it would take to land embiid
Mitch
Quickley
Obi
Rj
24/26/28 unprotected. Swaps in 25/27 , maybe an additional 1st of the protected picks we have
For embiid and Pj tucker
Grimes, Obi, Mitchell Robinson to Philly
6 total first to philly
Immanuel Quickley and Quentin Grimes? Jericho Sims has also shown a little bit..
Mcbride has shown flashes of being a rotation player
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Leon Rose has drafted very well? Since he took over the basketball operation, he has drafted 1 player who had any relevance on the team and that’s Obi Toppin, which can be categorized as a mediocre to bad pick considering Haliburton was available.
Immanuel Quickley and Quentin Grimes? Jericho Sims has also shown a little bit..
Mcbride has shown flashes of being a rotation player
Exactly, starting 2 guard (Grimes), borderline 6th man of the year (IQ), 2 rotational players still with upside (McBride and Sims) and yes a polarizing/potential starter (Obi). A hell of a lot more hits than misses
the expiring of Fournier may be a bigger asset than people think..
Also rumors out of Chicago that they are done with their big 3 and will look to trade them
The Knicks are In a great spot, even though they need some upgrades, and shouldn’t blow up the roster and empty the cupboard for one guy. That’s what the Knicks have done over and over again (Carmelo trade?) and it hasn’t worked.
Since they don’t have a pick this year, trades seem likely. But no packages of 4 of their better players plus a bunch of picks, please. The Knicks are good enough to have to overpay to fill a spot in a deal with an also-ran, but not THAT much.
I would be interested in seeing Porzingis back with the Knicks but only with the understanding that his games and minutes have to be limited.
The Knicks are In a great spot, even though they need some upgrades, and shouldn’t blow up the roster and empty the cupboard for one guy. That’s what the Knicks have done over and over again (Carmelo trade?) and it hasn’t worked.
Since they don’t have a pick this year, trades seem likely. But no packages of 4 of their better players plus a bunch of picks, please. The Knicks are good enough to have to overpay to fill a spot in a deal with an also-ran, but not THAT much.
I would be interested in seeing Porzingis back with the Knicks but only with the understanding that his games and minutes have to be limited.
Really good post Dane.
You back up the truck for Giannis but not for Embiid
The only way they ever move Giannis if he asks out. They’re not going to just choose to punt and start over with the best player in the league on the roster.
Unless there is some back channel communications from his confidants that say he wants to come to NY it would be foolish to just sit around waiting for him to maybe, possibly ask for a trade at some point.
I doubt they go this route, but I wish they’d go all in on finding a new home for Randle. I get it that he’s an All-NBA level player, but he’s shown over the last 3 years that he isn’t a winning player. He has a little too much Harden in him when the pressure gets too high.
It’s just hard to find a match because coming off of a season like we just had, you aren’t going to just unload him for assets. They need to get something back that’s going to improve the team. You basically have to wait for a 3 team trade where Randle goes to a team with a package of assets, that team sends those assets to a third team, and the third team gets additional stuff from the Knicks and sends “win now” piece or pieces to the Knicks. For example, since he was mentioned already, Embiid to the Knicks, Randle to a third team for a young player and draft compensation, Knicks divert whatever they get for Randle plus our own picks and young players to Philly.
I know it’s not a popular opionion but I would explore a Randle for KAT trade. I feel like he’s a good buy low candidate and could resurrect his career somewhat coming back home to the Knicks. Big contract but he’s only 27.
Would Minny consider an even swap ?
I know it’s not a popular opionion but I would explore a Randle for KAT trade. I feel like he’s a good buy low candidate and could resurrect his career somewhat coming back home to the Knicks. Big contract but he’s only 27.
Would Minny consider an even swap ?
You know my takes on Randle, no one likes him more than I do but I might do that trade too. I’m not even sure how I feel about Kat but I am warming to the idea of him coming to the Knicks. Maybe. I’m taking the approach no guts no glory. If the Knicks trust Kat so do I.
I agree - others can make better offers
After this and with Brunson, this is a place guys will want to come.
They just have to follow up this year with another good year. They obviously need a stretch 5. Hartenstein does not look like he can extend his range to hit threes. So I would like to see them get a 7 footer who can hit a three.
Knicks are not far from being a team who can win it.
I agree. A total longshot. Rose should put in an offer but don't waste the offseason pursuing something that is very likely not going to happen.
As for Miami when did Caleb Martin become Alex English
As for Miami when did Caleb Martin become Alex English
KP's a great player when he's healthy, but his career has been riddled with injuries.
If Philly is blowing it up and rebuilding why do they care where Embiid goes? These guys get to go pretty much wherever they want to go. Harden wanted Brooklyn and then Philly? He got traded to Brooklyn and then Philly. Durant wanted to go to Phoenix? The Nets sent him to Phoenix. Anthony Davis wanted to go to the Lakers, guess what? He went to the Lakers. These teams bend over backwards to accommodate the players and their agents, nobody wants to be the organization that is looked at as difficult to work with because then that will be the last star that makes an effort to go there.
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Why would they? Even if Embiid asks for a trade they have little pressure to accommodate him. He’s got 3 more years on his contract. And if they do decide to deal him the Knicks would be one if the last places they’d want to send him. It would end up just like last summer with Mitchell. Morey will dangle him all summer to drive the price up and then deal him elsewhere.
If Philly is blowing it up and rebuilding why do they care where Embiid goes? These guys get to go pretty much wherever they want to go. Harden wanted Brooklyn and then Philly? He got traded to Brooklyn and then Philly. Durant wanted to go to Phoenix? The Nets sent him to Phoenix. Anthony Davis wanted to go to the Lakers, guess what? He went to the Lakers. These teams bend over backwards to accommodate the players and their agents, nobody wants to be the organization that is looked at as difficult to work with because then that will be the last star that makes an effort to go there.
That is mostly true, but Morey and Ainge last year don’t care as much
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In comment 16120298 Jim in Fairfax said:
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Why would they? Even if Embiid asks for a trade they have little pressure to accommodate him. He’s got 3 more years on his contract. And if they do decide to deal him the Knicks would be one if the last places they’d want to send him. It would end up just like last summer with Mitchell. Morey will dangle him all summer to drive the price up and then deal him elsewhere.
If Philly is blowing it up and rebuilding why do they care where Embiid goes? These guys get to go pretty much wherever they want to go. Harden wanted Brooklyn and then Philly? He got traded to Brooklyn and then Philly. Durant wanted to go to Phoenix? The Nets sent him to Phoenix. Anthony Davis wanted to go to the Lakers, guess what? He went to the Lakers. These teams bend over backwards to accommodate the players and their agents, nobody wants to be the organization that is looked at as difficult to work with because then that will be the last star that makes an effort to go there.
That is mostly true, but Morey and Ainge last year don’t care as much
Morey probably isn’t the type that’s just going to send a guy to his chosen destination, but he also isn’t going to refuse a trade to NY if he feels that gets him the best package.
As for Ainge, there’s probably a reason the Celtics had a reputation for years of not being able to land free agents while he was there. It was an ongoing narrative until Stevens was able to deliver Hayward based on the college connection. Also, he’s in Utah, no free agents are going to go there regardless so you don’t have to worry about scaring anyone away.
lol. Wow.
I disagree. I think Denver is winning it all.
Like, come on.
Can't blame them. Knicks have one reliably productive player (Brunson) and they're not trading him.
nyet to the nynicks - ( New Window )
Not a chance. The Knicks are over the cap and can only offer the mid-level exception. He can command far more than that.
Yes, every other aspect held up vs Miami, except shooting - 5% better accuracy would’ve at the very least gotten them to game 7.
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What about signing Brook Lopez? Likely have to trade Mitch if you sign lopez, but lopez is an excellent defender and can hit the 3.
Not a chance. The Knicks are over the cap and can only offer the mid-level exception. He can command far more than that.
he made 13 last year, mid level is 12
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In comment 16120434 GMEN46 said:
Lopez will get 20m plus - his value has grown along with something called inflation
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What about signing Brook Lopez? Likely have to trade Mitch if you sign lopez, but lopez is an excellent defender and can hit the 3.
Not a chance. The Knicks are over the cap and can only offer the mid-level exception. He can command far more than that.
he made 13 last year, mid level is 12
I still think the Knicks could have beaten the Heat, however.
In the 7-8 game in Miami, Hawks led virtually wire-to-wire; up by 15 at the half; 13 going into the 4th; Heat never got closer than six.
In the 8-or-out game, also in Miami, the Bulls (the sub-.500 Bulls) led going into the 4th and Heat didn't take the lead for good until 2:17 remaining.
Knicks trailed the entire second half of all three losses in Miami, as well as the entire 4Q of the game they lost at MSG.
What does it amount to? The supposedly "good" teams have fundamental flaws because there is a shortage of actually good players in their prime. The number one seed Bucks had three starters well over 30 years old and, good grief, Grayson Allen. The Sixers' and Celtics' flaws could also be cataloged.
The glass half full is that the league is wide open and the Knicks could have as good a chance as anyone. The glass half empty is that other teams' flaws don't mean the Knicks' own flawed players will be enough to get them over the hump.
The state of the league also means the Sixers would be crazy to let go of an actually good (great) player in Embiid.
Just as bad as your football takes lol. He drafted Quickley and Grimes who are both more important to the team than Obi.
In the 7-8 game in Miami, Hawks led virtually wire-to-wire; up by 15 at the half; 13 going into the 4th; Heat never got closer than six.
In the 8-or-out game, also in Miami, the Bulls (the sub-.500 Bulls) led going into the 4th and Heat didn't take the lead for good until 2:17 remaining.
Knicks trailed the entire second half of all three losses in Miami, as well as the entire 4Q of the game they lost at MSG.
What does it amount to? The supposedly "good" teams have fundamental flaws because there is a shortage of actually good players in their prime. The number one seed Bucks had three starters well over 30 years old and, good grief, Grayson Allen. The Sixers' and Celtics' flaws could also be cataloged.
The glass half full is that the league is wide open and the Knicks could have as good a chance as anyone. The glass half empty is that other teams' flaws don't mean the Knicks' own flawed players will be enough to get them over the hump.
The state of the league also means the Sixers would be crazy to let go of an actually good (great) player in Embiid.
Knicks trailed by 3 with under 5 minutes to play in game one despite no Julius Randle and the team missing an incomprehensible number of WIDE open threes. They also had the ball down 2 with 30 seconds to play in game six when Brunson turned the ball over.
That’s what made games three and four so sickening. The issue was simply lack of effort. That reflected poorly on the coach IMO.
Macri wrote today that Morey is planning to sell Embid on a 1 year rebuild with $72m in cap space the following year. Also, mentioned Portland as a team to watch if they do trade Embid.
I still think the Knicks could have beaten the Heat, however.
Came within one or two possessions of forcing a game 7.
Still need to improve.
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But they’re not going to overpay. I’d expect them to add shooters at the wing and someone like Naz Reid up front and wait for the next star to shake loose. Their eyes on Giannis as the #1 because all the smoke is he’ll leave but that’s still a year or two away.
Macri wrote today that Morey is planning to sell Embid on a 1 year rebuild with $72m in cap space the following year. Also, mentioned Portland as a team to watch if they do trade Embid.
Highly unlikely Embiid ends up in Portland
Obi
RJ Barrett
David Lee
Danillo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
You wouldn't trade that for Embiid? Or Michael Jordan LOL.
Not only that, some of these picks were lottery picks, knicks probably won't have a lottery pick for a little while.
Obi
RJ Barrett
David Lee
Danillo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
You wouldn't trade that for Embiid? Or Michael Jordan LOL.
Not only that, some of these picks were lottery picks, knicks probably won't have a lottery pick for a little while.
agreed never understood why people refuse to trade draft pivks...Currency of hope as Hahn would say
Plenty of other options although not sure about center right this moment.
More than any other position the center spot needs an infusion of talent, especially of the offensive skill set. Where we getting that…
Its a lot, but the saving grace would be that the cap is supposed to skyrocket and the Knicks have no max guys on their roster..
I am not even a big fan of Towns but if it invokves Randle i would ubderstsnd it because Towns fits better next to Brunson
Ditto. I'd rather have KAT than Randle, but that back-ended deal is disgusting. Minnesota would have to eat a large chunk of it in order for me to be interested.
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past the money owed with KAT. Same with Dame and Beal.
Ditto. I'd rather have KAT than Randle, but that back-ended deal is disgusting. Minnesota would have to eat a large chunk of it in order for me to be interested.
If you could do it without having to give up a first and you still have all your assets to add more..its a no brainer it hink
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past the money owed with KAT. Same with Dame and Beal.
Ditto. I'd rather have KAT than Randle, but that back-ended deal is disgusting. Minnesota would have to eat a large chunk of it in order for me to be interested.
teams can't retain money on their books when they trade a player. If the Knicks traded for KAT, 100% of the money hits their cap.
Brunson is "cheap" for only 2 more years and then he's gonna want one of these crazy deals. Same with Randle (lol). That's part of why Mitchel would have made sense. He's locked in on a good deal for 2 years after this as well. Regardless, if and when Rose decides to pay a guy the super max or trade for someone already on it, he needs to be sure it's the right guy.
His offensive skill set is incredibly rare.
Issue would be your 1-5 are liabilities defensively. So you would just need to make sure 2-4 are stout defenders. Grimes fits that bill. You’d have to go and make some additional moves to make sure this roster compliments the Brunson Kat combo
KNicks fans are weird. You have Tierney on WFAN yesterday saying NOPE because his poor little feelings are still hurt about the 2010 "decision."
Of course you go get Lebron. Every single Knicks fan would be giddy the second Lebron strolled on to the court wearing a Knicks uni.
If the cost wasn't too much you do it without a moment's hesitation.
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just sayin...
KNicks fans are weird. You have Tierney on WFAN yesterday saying NOPE because his poor little feelings are still hurt about the 2010 "decision."
Of course you go get Lebron. Every single Knicks fan would be giddy the second Lebron strolled on to the court wearing a Knicks uni.
If the cost wasn't too much you do it without a moment's hesitation.
I wouodnt trade for Lebron at this point, a few years ago, absolutely, but he isnt the guaranteed conference finals anymore..
Wonder if the Front office would consider a move like getting Demarr Derozan on an expiring deal for much cheaper than Embiid would be and try to keep more of the current team intact.
KP has a player option, only realistic way he'll be a Knick is on a sign and trade aka multi-year deal
I dunno. He's an efficient offensive player. I think that the Knicks need efficacy more than anything else. I know it's a simplistic way to look at it, and spacing might be an issue, but maybe the creative offensive coaches on our staff could make the fit work.
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is an excellent player but a pretty poor fit for a Knicks team that needs shooters/players that spread the floor
I dunno. He's an efficient offensive player. I think that the Knicks need efficacy more than anything else. I know it's a simplistic way to look at it, and spacing might be an issue, but maybe the creative offensive coaches on our staff could make the fit work.
Not even trying to be snarky... what creativity did you see from the Knicks vs. Miami that leads you to believe they suddenly will craft a strong offense with another player who does his best damage with the ball and at mid-close range? Brunson was routinely running into excessive traffic because teams could sag against the Knicks.
This I do believe.
If the Knicks loved one of the top 3 and they traded Randle for that 3rd overall pick....I might be ok with this if they landed a good PF in FA to mitigate Randle's departure. That said it would be a huge hole to fill but if you love that 3rd pick/player I would get the move.
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In comment 16122555 DanMetroMan said:
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is an excellent player but a pretty poor fit for a Knicks team that needs shooters/players that spread the floor
I dunno. He's an efficient offensive player. I think that the Knicks need efficacy more than anything else. I know it's a simplistic way to look at it, and spacing might be an issue, but maybe the creative offensive coaches on our staff could make the fit work.
Not even trying to be snarky... what creativity did you see from the Knicks vs. Miami that leads you to believe they suddenly will craft a strong offense with another player who does his best damage with the ball and at mid-close range? Brunson was routinely running into excessive traffic because teams could sag against the Knicks.
Sorry, my bad.
I was being sarcastic with the creative minds comment.
I do think that he'd still find his shots here. But it wouldn't have to be him. I was just mentioning him as a lower cost alternative to an ALL IN trade.
"Austin Reaves is the top free agent the Lakers will likely prioritize this summer. The second-year guard is one of the biggest undrafted success stories with a massive leap at the offensive end this season. He is set to become a restricted Early Bird free agent this offseason and the Lakers could have some challenges toward re-signing him.
They are limited to offering him four years, projected at $54 million, the maximum amount a team can re-sign their Early Bird free agents to. Teams with cap space can offer him an offer sheet for more money that, if matched by the Lakers, would have significantly higher cap hits on the backend. The most another team with cap space can offer him is projected at four years, $100.4 million."
"Austin Reaves is the top free agent the Lakers will likely prioritize this summer. The second-year guard is one of the biggest undrafted success stories with a massive leap at the offensive end this season. He is set to become a restricted Early Bird free agent this offseason and the Lakers could have some challenges toward re-signing him.
They are limited to offering him four years, projected at $54 million, the maximum amount a team can re-sign their Early Bird free agents to. Teams with cap space can offer him an offer sheet for more money that, if matched by the Lakers, would have significantly higher cap hits on the backend. The most another team with cap space can offer him is projected at four years, $100.4 million."
He feels like a Spurs kinda player. Or Utah. I can see either of those teams offering him a nice deal with the idea of screwing over the Lakers.
Knicks are not looking to get into this draft and would never take the step pack of dealing Randle for a rookie.
If the Knicks trade Randle, they will want a similarly productive player back.
Reaves is a much better all-around player than Fournier. He does all of the little things. He's a "winning" type of player.
.142 WS/48 this season. Fournier's best ever was .106, career .078
RAPTOR ranked Reaves 21st in the NBA this season, 29th in box score Raptor, 12th in on/of. If the Knicks had space I'd be all over him.
Hoopshype
"Growing into one of the best young guards in the league who is adept at drawing fouls, especially for his age, and can shoot the ball from three or from the midrange. Smooth feel for the game and gives good effort on defense."
Your thinking of Anthony Donahue, Macri rips Thibs all the time
I guess that's *something*. But this front office obviously wasn't the one that traded him. I do think he really enjoyed playing in NY.
They could trade for him if he opts in and then extend him off of his current deal which would be a big number. But then between him and iHart you have a lot of money committed at center which may not be the best allocation of cap money.
lol ok then
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Says KP’s mea culpa interview during the season “didn’t go unnoticed” by Knicks brass.
I guess that's *something*. But this front office obviously wasn't the one that traded him. I do think he really enjoyed playing in NY.
They could trade for him if he opts in and then extend him off of his current deal which would be a big number. But then between him and iHart you have a lot of money committed at center which may not be the best allocation of cap money.
Mitch or Stein would have to go back in the deal I'm sure.
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Says KP’s mea culpa interview during the season “didn’t go unnoticed” by Knicks brass.
I guess that's *something*. But this front office obviously wasn't the one that traded him. I do think he really enjoyed playing in NY.
They could trade for him if he opts in and then extend him off of his current deal which would be a big number. But then between him and iHart you have a lot of money committed at center which may not be the best allocation of cap money.
Scott Perry traded KP and Scott Perry may well be the one who "noticed" the comments. He's presumably the one who had to deal directly with KP and his brother.
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In comment 16122811 bceagle05 said:
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Says KP’s mea culpa interview during the season “didn’t go unnoticed” by Knicks brass.
I guess that's *something*. But this front office obviously wasn't the one that traded him. I do think he really enjoyed playing in NY.
They could trade for him if he opts in and then extend him off of his current deal which would be a big number. But then between him and iHart you have a lot of money committed at center which may not be the best allocation of cap money.
Mitch or Stein would have to go back in the deal I'm sure.
yeah - forgot to add the part about Mitch being part of a trade. But my point remains, KP plus any non rookie contract center is a big investment at that position. And the new CBA makes it harder/punitive to add more high priced players at other spots going forward.
Josh Robbins
@JoshuaBRobbins
Michael Winger will be hired as president of Monumental Basketball, giving him oversight over the Wizards, Go-Go & Mystics. And as part of that hire, he'll have full authority to remake the Wizards' roster, even if it's a rebuild. Story at @TheAthleticNBA
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Josh Robbins
@JoshuaBRobbins
Michael Winger will be hired as president of Monumental Basketball, giving him oversight over the Wizards, Go-Go & Mystics. And as part of that hire, he'll have full authority to remake the Wizards' roster, even if it's a rebuild. Story at @TheAthleticNBA
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Washington and Toronto are the 2 teams to watch in my opinion, they will both be very actice and i think both will try to sell off to set up for the future
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with the KP stuff
Josh Robbins
@JoshuaBRobbins
Michael Winger will be hired as president of Monumental Basketball, giving him oversight over the Wizards, Go-Go & Mystics. And as part of that hire, he'll have full authority to remake the Wizards' roster, even if it's a rebuild. Story at @TheAthleticNBA
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Washington and Toronto are the 2 teams to watch in my opinion, they will both be very actice and i think both will try to sell off to set up for the future
The real question is how does OG or Siakam fit this team? Obviously Randle would have to go if you bring Siakam in, but is it even that much of an upgrade?
Ive been a huge beal fan for awhile, but the trade him ship has sailed for WAS. If they can get someone to take him for free without attaching some assets to him then this new guy should be given an award.
Re-signing Irving would seem to be baked into the plan, presuming the Mavs can keep him away from the Lakers; if not, they gave up two firsts for a rental who led them to the lottery. They at least have a brilliant superstar centerpiece in Dončić, but the whispers are growing louder that the underwhelming supporting cast could ultimately cost the Mavs their best player since Dirk."
Otherwise, the Bucks’ situation may force them into moving role players (such as one of Grayson Allen, Pat Connaughton or Bobby Portis) just to keep the tax bill manageable. Either way, the fun doesn’t stop here: Holiday can become a free agent in 2024, and Giannis Antetokounmpo can hit the market in 2025.
@TheNBACentral
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5m
Josh Hart’s extension talks with New York are expected to approach $18 million annually, per @JakeLFischer
As for Irving, I know LBJ loves him, but Good Lord...the man destroys every place he goes.
As for Irving, I know LBJ loves him, but Good Lord...the man destroys every place he goes.
I really hope not. Him and Pat the Rat would be a pain
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fantasize about Randle to Portland until they make a trade for another player (which is going to happen)
Knicks are not looking to get into this draft and would never take the step pack of dealing Randle for a rookie.
If the Knicks trade Randle, they will want a similarly productive player back.
The Knicks are looking to get into this draft if the opportunity is there
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In comment 16122579 DanMetroMan said:
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fantasize about Randle to Portland until they make a trade for another player (which is going to happen)
Knicks are not looking to get into this draft and would never take the step pack of dealing Randle for a rookie.
If the Knicks trade Randle, they will want a similarly productive player back.
The Knicks are looking to get into this draft if the opportunity is there
That's good. I'm guessing Obi will be off the team probably this offseason, so it'll be good to have a player on a rookie scale deal.
The depth at 4 is pretty shaky if Randle ever goes down for an extended period of time as it is.
Naz would be a good addition, he has a much better offensive game then Mitch