If Gettleman lacked that much trust in Judge, my first question is why the hell did he hire him in the first place?
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
From SB46 until Joe Schoen got here but one of the biggest things was keeping Gettleman after 2019 when he fired Shurmur. DG should have been out the door with him.
This basically confirms that Gettleman was kept but was neutered and added nothing of value to what Judge was trying to do. Not that I think Judge was destined for success here but that was the worst possible scenario.
This also means, in my opinion, that DG owns the successes and failures of 2018 and 2019 and Judge pretty much took over starting in 2020.
For better or worse Jones, Barkley, Dex, Solder, Baker all DG.
Thomas, McKinney, Toney (passing on Parsons), Golloday all Judge.
If Gettleman lacked that much trust in Judge, my first question is why the hell did he hire him in the first place?
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
Man that Giants era was bleak.
Do you honestly think Gettleman hired Judge?
Gettleman was kept on because Mara lacked the conviction to can him, but we now know that DG was GM in name only at that point.
But isnt it a good thing that Gettleman tossled for some control? You really think the coach that ran a qb sneak on 3rd and 10 should be authority?
You get to choose between the coach who ran a QB sneak inside his own 5 or the GM who turned off his phone when he had the #2 overall pick. Different shades of incompetence.
If Gettleman lacked that much trust in Judge, my first question is why the hell did he hire him in the first place?
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
Man that Giants era was bleak.
Maras. They destroyed the team. Starting w the forced hiring of McAdoo pushing TC out but not Reese. Etc.
I'm not going to just buy Ebner's version of events as the gospel truth. The guy wouldn't have been even employed by the Giants if it weren't for his special teams buddy Judge - of course he's going to claim Judge was railroaded at every turn.
If Gettleman lacked that much trust in Judge, my first question is why the hell did he hire him in the first place?
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
Man that Giants era was bleak.
Maras. They destroyed the team. Starting w the forced hiring of McAdoo pushing TC out but not Reese. Etc.
The team is destroyed?
RE: RE: RE: What a completely dysfunctional operation
Judge was bad too. But I don’t believe Judge did as much harm to the franchise during his time. I wouldn’t choose either, but I would absolutely not choose Dave.
Gettleman will have a decent legacy with NYG. Drafted a good amount of players who are a big part of this team’s current core. Judge was nearly as bad as Shurmur as HC and that’s saying something.
It’s not particularly close when it comes to DG vs Judge IMO.
It’s also rumored that Gettleman wanted Parsons big time.
I'm about to puke just typing this, but if the choice is Gettleman or Judge making a critical decision -- I'm going Dave.
Puke? After four years of Gettleman and two years of Judge, I was ready to find a nice, normal AFC team to support.
Nate Ebner is hardly a disinterested observer. He's not really much of an observer at all. More like the paid friend Judge whined to when the suits were mean to him about losing.
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
Judge was worse at his job than Gettelman was at his but it wasn’t nearly as impactful. We moved on from Judge very easily. Shoen is still cleaning up the cap.
stuff like this which has influenced my views of ownership. Those who get pissed off at me about being wary of Mara? This is yet another example.
I've said it before, but it was reported that Mara was looking for any excuse to keep Abrams as GM and Judge as HC.
So when Mara starts voicing opinions about personnel matters, I get nervous.
Anyone with an ounce of critical thinking skills realizes this take is 100% correct. The ten year voyage of the post SB 46 titanic had reached the iceberg with the double qb sneak with Jake Fromm against Washington. During this time , the state media (Tynes, Banks/Papa, Paul Schwartz) were publishing ridiculous puff pieces about Abrams/Judge. If the reports about Steve Tisch speaking up and steering them away from keeping the status quo are true then he deserves a lot of credit for saving Mara from himself
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
Huge disagree.
I actually think Judge has the stuff to be a successful HC. Not that I would trade Daboll for him, but Judge was dead in the water the minute he was hired with Gettleman.
Who was the QB on that 3rd and 9 inside the 5 yard line that Gettleman gave him? I believe that was Jake Fromm. And Judge (rightly) felt the best of all possible outcomes was a QB sneak with a completely non-competitive player at QB.
I've never understood the outrage directed at Judge for that decision. The outrage should've been directed at who was responsible for having a Jake Fromm on the roster. This was a complete shit show of an offense, and any scenario where Jake Fromm was throwing the ball inside the 5 yard line, the best realistic scenario was a safety. The worst-case would've been a defensive TD from the opposition, and that was probably more realistic than a safety or any other outcome.
Gettleman was the worst hire in the franchise's history. The game had passed him by at least 5 years before he was hired.
Gettleman will have a decent legacy with NYG. Drafted a good amount of players who are a big part of this team’s current core. Judge was nearly as bad as Shurmur as HC and that’s saying something.
It’s not particularly close when it comes to DG vs Judge IMO.
It’s also rumored that Gettleman wanted Parsons big time.
I'm not in any one camp, but can't you say that the Giants' drafts in 2000 and 2001 were better than 2018 and 2019? AT, McKinney, Olujari are pretty key to the core, for sure.
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
Huge disagree.
I actually think Judge has the stuff to be a successful HC. Not that I would trade Daboll for him, but Judge was dead in the water the minute he was hired with Gettleman.
Who was the QB on that 3rd and 9 inside the 5 yard line that Gettleman gave him? I believe that was Jake Fromm. And Judge (rightly) felt the best of all possible outcomes was a QB sneak with a completely non-competitive player at QB.
I've never understood the outrage directed at Judge for that decision. The outrage should've been directed at who was responsible for having a Jake Fromm on the roster. This was a complete shit show of an offense, and any scenario where Jake Fromm was throwing the ball inside the 5 yard line, the best realistic scenario was a safety. The worst-case would've been a defensive TD from the opposition, and that was probably more realistic than a safety or any other outcome.
Gettleman was the worst hire in the franchise's history. The game had passed him by at least 5 years before he was hired.
Judge proved himself to be nowhere near head coach material when he started saying bat shit crazy stuff in late season press conferences in a desperate attempt to save his job.
That ain't leadership.
RE: RE: RE: What a completely dysfunctional operation
If Gettleman lacked that much trust in Judge, my first question is why the hell did he hire him in the first place?
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
Man that Giants era was bleak.
Maras. They destroyed the team. Starting w the forced hiring of McAdoo pushing TC out but not Reese. Etc.
The team is destroyed?
Sorry. Utter dysfunctional and shitty? I guess you liked the last years of Eli's career and the subsequent awesome football over that time period this pertains to. Want to quibble over a descriptor? Sure. I'm wrong. It was an amazing time and the Mara's awesome choices during the time period max e the team a joy to behold
with a head coach decision that he's not aligned with. It's a recipe for disaster. I understand there are only 32 of these jobs so so I guess the strategy is try and outlast the coach?
That 2021 draft seemed like such a power struggle between DG and Judge and it cost then both.
Makes me wonder if DG had any say in the Shurmur and Judge hirings.
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
I'll pat myself on the back for never falling for Judge, but I never thought he'd end up being one of the worst coaches this team ever had. I mean, who could see that coming? But, I was still very much wait and see after the first year. Well unfortunately, we all got to see it eventually.
from the equally damning issues of bad/wasted draft picks includind such gems in the 1st round as DeAndre Baker and Kadarius Toney. Aside from bad free agent investments (Nate Solder and Kenny Golladay to name just a couple). Despite serious salary cap issues and nothing to show for it...
Keep this in mind:
Ownership decided Tom Coughlin was the problem and kept everyone else.
Ownership promoted Ben McAdoo to HC. (Remember the team rushed this when they were tricked by the Eagles into thinking Philly wanted to hire him).
Ownership decided to hire Dave Gettleman, without any serious GM search.
Ownership and Gettleman hired Pat Shurmur.
Ownership and Gettleman hired Joe Judge. Their original target was Rhule and he wouldn't even meet with them, and was also a disaster in Carolina. The Giants then turned to Judge, a little-known special teams coach from New England.
Ownership wanted to promote Abramas to GM and keep Judge, but the unbelievable meltdown by Judge at the end of the season made those options virtually untenable.
By some miracle, ownership landed on Schoen, who lobbied hard for Daboll.
Ownership wanted to promote Abramas to GM and keep Judge, but the unbelievable meltdown by Judge at the end of the season made those options virtually untenable.
By some miracle, ownership landed on Schoen, who lobbied hard for Daboll.
Whatever Mara initially “wanted” to do, he didn’t do, I can’t blame him for something that didn’t happen. Judge was fired and from all accounts Schoen has been given full authority to reshape the front office. Maybe Cowden is hired in the next few weeks as well.
from the equally damning issues of bad/wasted draft picks includind such gems in the 1st round as DeAndre Baker and Kadarius Toney. Aside from bad free agent investments (Nate Solder and Kenny Golladay to name just a couple). Despite serious salary cap issues and nothing to show for it...
Keep this in mind:
Ownership decided Tom Coughlin was the problem and kept everyone else.
Ownership promoted Ben McAdoo to HC. (Remember the team rushed this when they were tricked by the Eagles into thinking Philly wanted to hire him).
2015 was the watershed moment I believe.
After 3 losing seasons, with a poorly constructed roster, an undisciplined and underperforming team, and a QB who wasn't done but certainly on the back 9 -- the Giants should have had a hard reset and brought in brand new people with no emotional ties to the glory years.
Ownership wanted to promote Abramas to GM and keep Judge, but the unbelievable meltdown by Judge at the end of the season made those options virtually untenable.
By some miracle, ownership landed on Schoen, who lobbied hard for Daboll.
Whatever Mara initially “wanted” to do, he didn’t do, I can’t blame him for something that didn’t happen. Judge was fired and from all accounts Schoen has been given full authority to reshape the front office. Maybe Cowden is hired in the next few weeks as well.
Look at my last post. The batting average is horrific. My sense is Schoen and Daboll are calling the shots, but there are years of horrific decision-making...just horrific.
Let's cut to the chase... we now know that the coaching staff and front office were not even on the same page. We got that sense for a number of years. This happened under ownership. They knew about it. And they let it fester.
After 3 losing seasons, with a poorly constructed roster, an undisciplined and underperforming team, and a QB who wasn't done but certainly on the back 9 -- the Giants should have had a hard reset and brought in brand new people with no emotional ties to the glory years.
You are close to touching on another key point in history...
It was apparent that Eli was DONE and McAdoo wanted to move on. The extreme fan backlash when we benched Eli scared the shit out of John Mara. He even said "we did not expect the fans to get so emotional".
I truly think we would have found our next QB that off season but ended up keeping Eli because Mara though that is what the fans wanted.
Now, we cannot assume the Giants would have taken Josh Allen. For all we know we would have Darnold or Rosen especially when you look at all of the poor decisions that DG made.
from the equally damning issues of bad/wasted draft picks includind such gems in the 1st round as DeAndre Baker and Kadarius Toney. Aside from bad free agent investments (Nate Solder and Kenny Golladay to name just a couple). Despite serious salary cap issues and nothing to show for it...
Keep this in mind:
Ownership decided Tom Coughlin was the problem and kept everyone else.
Ownership promoted Ben McAdoo to HC. (Remember the team rushed this when they were tricked by the Eagles into thinking Philly wanted to hire him).
2015 was the watershed moment I believe.
After 3 losing seasons, with a poorly constructed roster, an undisciplined and underperforming team, and a QB who wasn't done but certainly on the back 9 -- the Giants should have had a hard reset and brought in brand new people with no emotional ties to the glory years.
There were a few watershed moments. They seemed to never get the GM and HC on the same page. "We'll fire Coughlin and hope Reese gets better." "We'll fire Reese and hope the guy who lost out to him the first go around is the answer despite his advanced age." "We'll get rid of Shurmur but keep Gettleman". And let's not even get into the general feeling that this team was close with Eli Manning and only needed to be tweaked, including taking a RB with the #2 overall pick.
Not completely uncommon for teams moving off a franchise legend. Decisions were made to return to the Eli glory years, not necessarily what was best for the franchise.
The Chris Mara days are over. Schoen is in total control. That much seems obvious.
What exactly are the Chris Mara days,because I'm not sure you'd get a consensus on whether or not they existed.
There were many rumors that he had his own draft personnel evaluations and made them known. Couldn’t have been good for the process. It was at the very least a terrible organizational structure with the top personnel guys reporting to both him and the GM.
RE: RE: RE: You watch these video's of the Giants war room
The Chris Mara days are over. Schoen is in total control. That much seems obvious.
What exactly are the Chris Mara days,because I'm not sure you'd get a consensus on whether or not they existed.
The guy was sitting in the front row in every draft room. To suggest that he DIDN'T have any impact or influence over who was drafted (not saying all draft picks) is foolish. There are dozens of other family members who did not get to sit in that room.
I also think the fan perception the Giants were a first-rate, all class, well-ran shop was a myth.
In this general period of time the equipment guys were ripping off fans, the video guy was either a pathological liar or got beat up at work, they employed a bunch of scouting folks that have trash reputations, and Gettleman well enough said.
I couldn't be more glad Schoen is here and cleaning house. The organization was broken from the inside out.
Gettleman, and Judge were all awful. I think Mara lucked into Schoen and Daboll. He definitely wanted to keep Judge, but Judge's meltdowns at the end of the season, including his two QB sneaks and wretched press conferences, made that impossible. Tisch was also rightly pressuring Mara to fire Judge. It was pretty well known that the better GM candidates like Schoen would not consider the Giants if they had to accept Judge.
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
Man that Giants era was bleak.
This basically confirms that Gettleman was kept but was neutered and added nothing of value to what Judge was trying to do. Not that I think Judge was destined for success here but that was the worst possible scenario.
This also means, in my opinion, that DG owns the successes and failures of 2018 and 2019 and Judge pretty much took over starting in 2020.
For better or worse Jones, Barkley, Dex, Solder, Baker all DG.
Thomas, McKinney, Toney (passing on Parsons), Golloday all Judge.
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
Man that Giants era was bleak.
Do you honestly think Gettleman hired Judge?
Gettleman was kept on because Mara lacked the conviction to can him, but we now know that DG was GM in name only at that point.
You get to choose between the coach who ran a QB sneak inside his own 5 or the GM who turned off his phone when he had the #2 overall pick. Different shades of incompetence.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
The correct choice is nuke 'em both.
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
Man that Giants era was bleak.
Maras. They destroyed the team. Starting w the forced hiring of McAdoo pushing TC out but not Reese. Etc.
Quote:
I'm about to puke just typing this, but if the choice is Gettleman or Judge making a critical decision -- I'm going Dave.
The correct choice is nuke 'em both.
Well clearly. You can throw a few minor Maras in their too.
Quote:
If Gettleman lacked that much trust in Judge, my first question is why the hell did he hire him in the first place?
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
Man that Giants era was bleak.
Maras. They destroyed the team. Starting w the forced hiring of McAdoo pushing TC out but not Reese. Etc.
The team is destroyed?
Quote:
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
I disagree (not that it really matters)
-Dave hired Judge (whether you believe he was gm in name only or not the hire falls on him)
-He egregiously overpaid on subpar free agents- Golladay, Solder, Stewart, etc
- Grossly mismanaged resources in the oline
- Drafted territory in later rounds
Judge was bad too. But I don’t believe Judge did as much harm to the franchise during his time. I wouldn’t choose either, but I would absolutely not choose Dave.
It’s not particularly close when it comes to DG vs Judge IMO.
It’s also rumored that Gettleman wanted Parsons big time.
Puke? After four years of Gettleman and two years of Judge, I was ready to find a nice, normal AFC team to support.
Nate Ebner is hardly a disinterested observer. He's not really much of an observer at all. More like the paid friend Judge whined to when the suits were mean to him about losing.
I've said it before, but it was reported that Mara was looking for any excuse to keep Abrams as GM and Judge as HC.
So when Mara starts voicing opinions about personnel matters, I get nervous.
I've said it before, but it was reported that Mara was looking for any excuse to keep Abrams as GM and Judge as HC.
So when Mara starts voicing opinions about personnel matters, I get nervous.
Tisch has a much larger say than he used to have. I’m not nervous about whatever nonsense comes out of Mara’s mouth as long as Schoen is the GM
Quote:
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
Judge was worse at his job than Gettelman was at his but it wasn’t nearly as impactful. We moved on from Judge very easily. Shoen is still cleaning up the cap.
Quote:
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
I sure did..
and you can't help but think that the fans should proceed with more caution these days.
and you can't help but think that the fans should proceed with more caution these days.
The Chris Mara days are over. Schoen is in total control. That much seems obvious.
What exactly are the Chris Mara days,because I'm not sure you'd get a consensus on whether or not they existed.
I've said it before, but it was reported that Mara was looking for any excuse to keep Abrams as GM and Judge as HC.
So when Mara starts voicing opinions about personnel matters, I get nervous.
Anyone with an ounce of critical thinking skills realizes this take is 100% correct. The ten year voyage of the post SB 46 titanic had reached the iceberg with the double qb sneak with Jake Fromm against Washington. During this time , the state media (Tynes, Banks/Papa, Paul Schwartz) were publishing ridiculous puff pieces about Abrams/Judge. If the reports about Steve Tisch speaking up and steering them away from keeping the status quo are true then he deserves a lot of credit for saving Mara from himself
I've said it before, but it was reported that Mara was looking for any excuse to keep Abrams as GM and Judge as HC.
So when Mara starts voicing opinions about personnel matters, I get nervous.
And the current Mara has a very close example of what can happen when a Mara owner gets too involved in personnel. *grin*
...soooo much baggage.
Quote:
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
Huge disagree.
I actually think Judge has the stuff to be a successful HC. Not that I would trade Daboll for him, but Judge was dead in the water the minute he was hired with Gettleman.
Who was the QB on that 3rd and 9 inside the 5 yard line that Gettleman gave him? I believe that was Jake Fromm. And Judge (rightly) felt the best of all possible outcomes was a QB sneak with a completely non-competitive player at QB.
I've never understood the outrage directed at Judge for that decision. The outrage should've been directed at who was responsible for having a Jake Fromm on the roster. This was a complete shit show of an offense, and any scenario where Jake Fromm was throwing the ball inside the 5 yard line, the best realistic scenario was a safety. The worst-case would've been a defensive TD from the opposition, and that was probably more realistic than a safety or any other outcome.
Gettleman was the worst hire in the franchise's history. The game had passed him by at least 5 years before he was hired.
It’s not particularly close when it comes to DG vs Judge IMO.
It’s also rumored that Gettleman wanted Parsons big time.
I'm not in any one camp, but can't you say that the Giants' drafts in 2000 and 2001 were better than 2018 and 2019? AT, McKinney, Olujari are pretty key to the core, for sure.
Quote:
In comment 16120377 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
Huge disagree.
I actually think Judge has the stuff to be a successful HC. Not that I would trade Daboll for him, but Judge was dead in the water the minute he was hired with Gettleman.
Who was the QB on that 3rd and 9 inside the 5 yard line that Gettleman gave him? I believe that was Jake Fromm. And Judge (rightly) felt the best of all possible outcomes was a QB sneak with a completely non-competitive player at QB.
I've never understood the outrage directed at Judge for that decision. The outrage should've been directed at who was responsible for having a Jake Fromm on the roster. This was a complete shit show of an offense, and any scenario where Jake Fromm was throwing the ball inside the 5 yard line, the best realistic scenario was a safety. The worst-case would've been a defensive TD from the opposition, and that was probably more realistic than a safety or any other outcome.
Gettleman was the worst hire in the franchise's history. The game had passed him by at least 5 years before he was hired.
Judge proved himself to be nowhere near head coach material when he started saying bat shit crazy stuff in late season press conferences in a desperate attempt to save his job.
That ain't leadership.
Quote:
In comment 16120370 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
If Gettleman lacked that much trust in Judge, my first question is why the hell did he hire him in the first place?
Is it because they all thought they were going to land Rhule and then panicked when Tepper signed him?
Or did Mara get smitten with Judge’s bullshit and “The Patriot Way” that Gettleman just decided to tell him his boss what he wanted to hear and decided he would try and manage him? Play the “adult in the room” to the rookie coach.
Man that Giants era was bleak.
Maras. They destroyed the team. Starting w the forced hiring of McAdoo pushing TC out but not Reese. Etc.
The team is destroyed?
Sorry. Utter dysfunctional and shitty? I guess you liked the last years of Eli's career and the subsequent awesome football over that time period this pertains to. Want to quibble over a descriptor? Sure. I'm wrong. It was an amazing time and the Mara's awesome choices during the time period max e the team a joy to behold
That 2021 draft seemed like such a power struggle between DG and Judge and it cost then both.
Makes me wonder if DG had any say in the Shurmur and Judge hirings.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
This +1000
And yet, Jones (and others) had to deal with this piece of shit - and Garret - for TWO FUCKING YEARS.
But some on this site blamed Jones for somehow not defying the odds and managing to "advance" during this time.
Just show how fucking stupid the anti jones people were. And some are still are...
Quote:
Gettleman was hired because EA did a solid for his old pal &sold Mara on Gettleman. Again, THE worst hire in NYG history...even worse than Ray.
The Judge hire was worse than the Gettleman hire. I’ll stand by that statement until the end of time.
The worst part is they both were here at the same time. The Giants organization didn’t stand a fucking chance with those 2 running things.
Joe Judge is the worst “anything” this organization has ever had. And so many of us fell for it early on (myself included).
I'll pat myself on the back for never falling for Judge, but I never thought he'd end up being one of the worst coaches this team ever had. I mean, who could see that coming? But, I was still very much wait and see after the first year. Well unfortunately, we all got to see it eventually.
Keep this in mind:
Ownership decided Tom Coughlin was the problem and kept everyone else.
Ownership promoted Ben McAdoo to HC. (Remember the team rushed this when they were tricked by the Eagles into thinking Philly wanted to hire him).
Ownership decided to hire Dave Gettleman, without any serious GM search.
Ownership and Gettleman hired Pat Shurmur.
Ownership and Gettleman hired Joe Judge. Their original target was Rhule and he wouldn't even meet with them, and was also a disaster in Carolina. The Giants then turned to Judge, a little-known special teams coach from New England.
Ownership wanted to promote Abramas to GM and keep Judge, but the unbelievable meltdown by Judge at the end of the season made those options virtually untenable.
By some miracle, ownership landed on Schoen, who lobbied hard for Daboll.
By some miracle, ownership landed on Schoen, who lobbied hard for Daboll.
Whatever Mara initially “wanted” to do, he didn’t do, I can’t blame him for something that didn’t happen. Judge was fired and from all accounts Schoen has been given full authority to reshape the front office. Maybe Cowden is hired in the next few weeks as well.
Keep this in mind:
Ownership decided Tom Coughlin was the problem and kept everyone else.
Ownership promoted Ben McAdoo to HC. (Remember the team rushed this when they were tricked by the Eagles into thinking Philly wanted to hire him).
2015 was the watershed moment I believe.
After 3 losing seasons, with a poorly constructed roster, an undisciplined and underperforming team, and a QB who wasn't done but certainly on the back 9 -- the Giants should have had a hard reset and brought in brand new people with no emotional ties to the glory years.
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Ownership wanted to promote Abramas to GM and keep Judge, but the unbelievable meltdown by Judge at the end of the season made those options virtually untenable.
By some miracle, ownership landed on Schoen, who lobbied hard for Daboll.
Whatever Mara initially “wanted” to do, he didn’t do, I can’t blame him for something that didn’t happen. Judge was fired and from all accounts Schoen has been given full authority to reshape the front office. Maybe Cowden is hired in the next few weeks as well.
Look at my last post. The batting average is horrific. My sense is Schoen and Daboll are calling the shots, but there are years of horrific decision-making...just horrific.
Let's cut to the chase... we now know that the coaching staff and front office were not even on the same page. We got that sense for a number of years. This happened under ownership. They knew about it. And they let it fester.
2015 was the watershed moment I believe.
After 3 losing seasons, with a poorly constructed roster, an undisciplined and underperforming team, and a QB who wasn't done but certainly on the back 9 -- the Giants should have had a hard reset and brought in brand new people with no emotional ties to the glory years.
You are close to touching on another key point in history...
It was apparent that Eli was DONE and McAdoo wanted to move on. The extreme fan backlash when we benched Eli scared the shit out of John Mara. He even said "we did not expect the fans to get so emotional".
I truly think we would have found our next QB that off season but ended up keeping Eli because Mara though that is what the fans wanted.
Now, we cannot assume the Giants would have taken Josh Allen. For all we know we would have Darnold or Rosen especially when you look at all of the poor decisions that DG made.
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from the equally damning issues of bad/wasted draft picks includind such gems in the 1st round as DeAndre Baker and Kadarius Toney. Aside from bad free agent investments (Nate Solder and Kenny Golladay to name just a couple). Despite serious salary cap issues and nothing to show for it...
Keep this in mind:
Ownership decided Tom Coughlin was the problem and kept everyone else.
Ownership promoted Ben McAdoo to HC. (Remember the team rushed this when they were tricked by the Eagles into thinking Philly wanted to hire him).
2015 was the watershed moment I believe.
After 3 losing seasons, with a poorly constructed roster, an undisciplined and underperforming team, and a QB who wasn't done but certainly on the back 9 -- the Giants should have had a hard reset and brought in brand new people with no emotional ties to the glory years.
There were a few watershed moments. They seemed to never get the GM and HC on the same page. "We'll fire Coughlin and hope Reese gets better." "We'll fire Reese and hope the guy who lost out to him the first go around is the answer despite his advanced age." "We'll get rid of Shurmur but keep Gettleman". And let's not even get into the general feeling that this team was close with Eli Manning and only needed to be tweaked, including taking a RB with the #2 overall pick.
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The Chris Mara days are over. Schoen is in total control. That much seems obvious.
What exactly are the Chris Mara days,because I'm not sure you'd get a consensus on whether or not they existed.
There were many rumors that he had his own draft personnel evaluations and made them known. Couldn’t have been good for the process. It was at the very least a terrible organizational structure with the top personnel guys reporting to both him and the GM.
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The Chris Mara days are over. Schoen is in total control. That much seems obvious.
What exactly are the Chris Mara days,because I'm not sure you'd get a consensus on whether or not they existed.
The guy was sitting in the front row in every draft room. To suggest that he DIDN'T have any impact or influence over who was drafted (not saying all draft picks) is foolish. There are dozens of other family members who did not get to sit in that room.
- DG
In this general period of time the equipment guys were ripping off fans, the video guy was either a pathological liar or got beat up at work, they employed a bunch of scouting folks that have trash reputations, and Gettleman well enough said.
I couldn't be more glad Schoen is here and cleaning house. The organization was broken from the inside out.
And after camp too.