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Trying to understand Jalin Hyatt’s potential

DonnieD89 : 5/21/2023 12:56 pm
I was looking at Jalin Hyatt’s measurables and trying to project his potential as a possible WR1. He has the measurements to be an explosive player, but I did look at his three cone time and short shuttle time, which were average with the three cone and far below average with the short shuttle (26 percentile). Given that he really did not have a chance to run the full route tree in the Tennessee offense, I’m trying to figure out if he can get separation with the short, quick and intermediate routes. He did not participate in the three cone drill and short shuttle at the combine, because he pulled a hamstring. Was his three cone number and short shuttle numbers that were done later, due to a lingering hamstring, or is it what it is? I know he has been compared to Will Fuller for potential, but could he be more? Does he truly have a quicks?
You lost me the moment you said..  
DefenseWins : 5/21/2023 1:13 pm : link
you were looking at his measurables.
RE: You lost me the moment you said..  
DonnieD89 : 5/21/2023 1:22 pm : link
In comment 16120586 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
you were looking at his measurables.


OK, you got me there. But can you give me a reasonable, intelligent answer to my question? I’m just trying to get an answer from someone who might know about his three cone time and short shuffle time after he pulled his hamstring.
DonnieD89  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/21/2023 1:32 pm : link
WRs come in different styles and flavor. Who is the best WR in Giants history in terms of consistent productivity over time? It was Amani Toomer. Does Amani Toomer come across to you as a 3-cone warrior?

Speed, take the top off defenses  
JonC : 5/21/2023 1:35 pm : link
Deeper routes to stress the safeties and create seams for other receivers to sneak in.
You have to practice and train for  
section125 : 5/21/2023 1:43 pm : link
the shuttle run. Did he train for the 3 cone? The guy runs a 4.36 forty. No matter what, he will be hard to cover man to man and on deep routes.
If DJ can get him the ball, he will have huge big seasons.
RE: DonnieD89  
DonnieD89 : 5/21/2023 1:45 pm : link
In comment 16120592 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
WRs come in different styles and flavor. Who is the best WR in Giants history in terms of consistent productivity over time? It was Amani Toomer. Does Amani Toomer come across to you as a 3-cone warrior?


No. Amani Toomer does not look like a 3-cone warrior; however, I couldn’t get any information Amani’s 3-cone time. I do understand the potential of Jalin taking the top off the opponents defense, but I am trying to figure out if he can do more.
Link - ( New Window )
a couple of things  
blueblood : 5/21/2023 1:48 pm : link
WR1 in my opinion is an over talked about thing. Everyone though KC would go down the tubes without Tyreke Hill and all they did was win another Super Bowl. They dont have a #1 WR. They have a #1 TARGET in Kelce. Our number one might turn out to be Waller. So I wouldnt get so worried about who is the #1 WR.

Secondly have to actually watched any of the games Hyatt plays. He speed is apparent. and it's not running around in your underwear speed. Its on a football field with pads and gear on REAL speed.

Now his broad jump and vertical numbers show that he has top level burst to go along with speed.. so he can get up to speed in a hurry.

Daboll knows how they would want to use him, and has said he runs routes already similar to what we run here..

I'm not sure when the shuttle and 3-cone times were taken.  
solarmike : 5/21/2023 1:49 pm : link
NFL Draft Buzz:
NFL Draft Buzz - ( New Window )
His upside to me  
Mike from SI : 5/21/2023 1:50 pm : link
is Desean Jackson. Which, as much as I dislike that particular player, is very exciting for where we picked him.
He may have a little trouble with the short routes if teams play press  
Ivan15 : 5/21/2023 1:50 pm : link
Coverage but they are going to have to respect him on intermediate routes.
Watch his combine tape and highlights. He can just snatch the ball out of the air on crossing routes.

He is like Slayton with good hands.
it is more than just good hands  
ElitoCanton : 5/21/2023 1:55 pm : link
ball tracking ability is a very underrated trait and he has it.
here's how i look at him  
Eric on Li : 5/21/2023 2:07 pm : link
first i put him in the comp set of receivers who win with elite speed in the last 5-10 years (legitimate 4.3 or lower guys) because that is how he wins. i take out elite speed guys like metcalf, hill, waddle, djax because they are so multi-dimensional. that's not to say hyatt cant be that just that

ginn, mike wallace, ruggs, ross, cooks, fuller, ty hilton, dorsett, jameson williams, etc.

of that comp set the thing to like best is his hands and his production. most of those guys had issues with drops and a lot of them didn't produce as much as he did.

jameson williams was really the only guy who had that combination - which is why he went #12 even with a torn acl. he's only in year 2 though so who knows how he turns out.

but of the guys in that comp set who had pretty good hands i think the 2 most relevant would be mike wallace and ty hilton. im pretty optimistic hyatt is going to be that type of player - which is essentially a much better version of slayton.
RE: a couple of things  
Ivan15 : 5/21/2023 2:11 pm : link
In comment 16120598 blueblood said:
Quote:
WR1 in my opinion is an over talked about thing. Everyone though KC would go down the tubes without Tyreke Hill and all they did was win another Super Bowl. They dont have a #1 WR. They have a #1 TARGET in Kelce. Our number one might turn out to be Waller. So I wouldnt get so worried about who is the #1 WR.

Secondly have to actually watched any of the games Hyatt plays. He speed is apparent. and it's not running around in your underwear speed. Its on a football field with pads and gear on REAL speed.

Now his broad jump and vertical numbers show that he has top level burst to go along with speed.. so he can get up to speed in a hurry.

Daboll knows how they would want to use him, and has said he runs routes already similar to what we run here..
_______________________
I can see a lot of plays where the Giants use that 3-receiver cluster that they used last season, with Waller, Hodgins and Hyatt
I noticed  
MotownGIANTS : 5/21/2023 2:11 pm : link
when some reviewers mentioned that in a positive manner got the overall vibe he is “outstanding” in that regard for a collegiate level. With good to good+ hands.

You are right that is not discussed enough the quicker a guy tracks and locks the ball better chance for the adjustment and catch. If him and Jones click and vibe throwing him open, Jones outside the pocket types plays hopefully become something we get accustom to seeing
RE: I noticed  
DonnieD89 : 5/21/2023 2:27 pm : link
In comment 16120618 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
when some reviewers mentioned that in a positive manner got the overall vibe he is “outstanding” in that regard for a collegiate level. With good to good+ hands.

You are right that is not discussed enough the quicker a guy tracks and locks the ball better chance for the adjustment and catch. If him and Jones click and vibe throwing him open, Jones outside the pocket types plays hopefully become something we get accustom to seeing


Definitely in agreement there. I forgot about his tracking ability, which is so key and much more important than other agilities. Again, I’m just trying to imagine if he can effectively “master the route tree”. I’m very intrigued at how much potential can be tapped through appropriate coaching.
When I think about Hyatt's potential  
JoeFootball : 5/21/2023 2:27 pm : link
I think about the crossing route in the Minnesota playoff game that Slayton dropped. If that is Hyatt he might still be running. His hands will be what will allow him to succeed .
RE: RE: You lost me the moment you said..  
DefenseWins : 5/21/2023 2:28 pm : link
In comment 16120589 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
In comment 16120586 DefenseWins said:


Quote:


you were looking at his measurables.



OK, you got me there. But can you give me a reasonable, intelligent answer to my question? I’m just trying to get an answer from someone who might know about his three cone time and short shuffle time after he pulled his hamstring.


None of those things are going to translate into what his potential is because those drills do not really translate to on field production as a WR.

None of those measurables can tell us the following:
Can he catch with his hands?
Can he run precise and crisp routes?
Can he read a defense?
Is he smart enough to make the appropriate adjustments?
Does he know how to shield off the defender when the ball is in the air?
Does he high point the football?
Does he fight for the football?
Does he know when to come back to the football when it is in the air?
Does he have situational awareness?
Does he have courage in the middle of the field?
RE: I'm not sure when the shuttle and 3-cone times were taken.  
DonnieD89 : 5/21/2023 2:35 pm : link
In comment 16120599 solarmike said:
Quote:
NFL Draft Buzz: NFL Draft Buzz - ( New Window )


Solarmike. Thanks for that post. It’s interesting that he has a DNP beside his bench press stat. I don’t know if there was an upper body injury at that time. I do believe that comprehensive strength training can help him with press coverage. He did put on weight to try to adapt, knowing that he will be facing press coverage more so going into the pros.
RE: RE: RE: You lost me the moment you said..  
DonnieD89 : 5/21/2023 2:46 pm : link
In comment 16120631 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 16120589 DonnieD89 said:


Quote:


In comment 16120586 DefenseWins said:


Quote:


you were looking at his measurables.



OK, you got me there. But can you give me a reasonable, intelligent answer to my question? I’m just trying to get an answer from someone who might know about his three cone time and short shuffle time after he pulled his hamstring.



None of those things are going to translate into what his potential is because those drills do not really translate to on field production as a WR.

None of those measurables can tell us the following:
Can he catch with his hands?
Can he run precise and crisp routes?
Can he read a defense?
Is he smart enough to make the appropriate adjustments?
Does he know how to shield off the defender when the ball is in the air?
Does he high point the football?
Does he fight for the football?
Does he know when to come back to the football when it is in the air?
Does he have situational awareness?
Does he have courage in the middle of the field?


Good answer and I agree with you. However, that’s why they do these things at the combine and pro days. Some of these things can be taught, and some are either innate or not in the ball player. I keep going back to his game against Alabama. Alabama faced the lot of good wide receivers. Why did he torch them so bad? Alabama could not figure him out that game. Maybe I am dreaming, but I just have a gut feeling that he can do so more.
RE: here's how i look at him  
knowledgetimmons : 5/21/2023 2:49 pm : link
In comment 16120611 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
first i put him in the comp set of receivers who win with elite speed in the last 5-10 years (legitimate 4.3 or lower guys) because that is how he wins. i take out elite speed guys like metcalf, hill, waddle, djax because they are so multi-dimensional. that's not to say hyatt cant be that just that

ginn, mike wallace, ruggs, ross, cooks, fuller, ty hilton, dorsett, jameson williams, etc.

of that comp set the thing to like best is his hands and his production. most of those guys had issues with drops and a lot of them didn't produce as much as he did.

jameson williams was really the only guy who had that combination - which is why he went #12 even with a torn acl. he's only in year 2 though so who knows how he turns out.

but of the guys in that comp set who had pretty good hands i think the 2 most relevant would be mike wallace and ty hilton. im pretty optimistic hyatt is going to be that type of player - which is essentially a much better version of slayton.


Great post, agreed on all points. To add, he needs mentorship, and I think a lot of people are underrating Shepard in that regard. Shep is a future coach.
We have no idea how Daboll is going to use him in this offense  
mikeinbloomfield : 5/21/2023 3:21 pm : link
But we do know that he wanted him, which means they know what they're going to do with him.

Separation is the criteria Schoen talks about a lot. I am going to guess they are going to let him fly, and when DJ gets the coverage he wants, he'll be gone. I don't know if we can figure out more than that.

Good coaches know how to scheme people open  
blueblood : 5/21/2023 3:24 pm : link
and use their abilities.
Nick Falato Breakdown of Hyatt. pretty good watch - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: You lost me the moment you said..  
DefenseWins : 5/21/2023 3:28 pm : link
In comment 16120641 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
In comment 16120631 DefenseWins said:


Quote:


In comment 16120589 DonnieD89 said:


Quote:


In comment 16120586 DefenseWins said:


Quote:


you were looking at his measurables.



OK, you got me there. But can you give me a reasonable, intelligent answer to my question? I’m just trying to get an answer from someone who might know about his three cone time and short shuffle time after he pulled his hamstring.



None of those things are going to translate into what his potential is because those drills do not really translate to on field production as a WR.

None of those measurables can tell us the following:
Can he catch with his hands?
Can he run precise and crisp routes?
Can he read a defense?
Is he smart enough to make the appropriate adjustments?
Does he know how to shield off the defender when the ball is in the air?
Does he high point the football?
Does he fight for the football?
Does he know when to come back to the football when it is in the air?
Does he have situational awareness?
Does he have courage in the middle of the field?



Good answer and I agree with you. However, that’s why they do these things at the combine and pro days.


The things you see at the combine are just additional ways to measure athleticism. Smart teams may use those combine results more so as a deciding factor when they are choosing between two players who are fairly close in their evaluation. If they place too much emphasis on the combine numbers when drafting players, then you will see a team that is going to be near the bottom of the league every year.

So back to your original question, we cannot determine Hyatt's potential based upon those drills you referenced.
Frankly - I'd take Dab's opinion over mine  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/21/2023 3:44 pm : link
any day of the week - and Dabs says he knows how he's going to use him, that he's got speed, and he wanted him so much that he helped orchestrate a trade-up for him.

I've watched quite a bit of film on him and his running and catching ability looks electric to me.
Physically he has enough tools  
dancing blue bear : 5/21/2023 3:47 pm : link
To be great. That is true of most high draft picks (top100 +\-)


After that it is coaching and scheme. Health. Ability to learn. And work ethic which I see as a drive to be the best you can be (great)

As mentioned above combine numbers are tricky. Some guys train for them specifically some don’t. Some guys will participate with small injuries because not participating is detrimental as well.

I read where McKinney ran the 40 with the flu or some other illness. It hurt his time and he fell out of the first. “Lack of speed/ range” kinda follows him as far as reputation but anyone that watches knows it is not the case. The route tree stuff is overrated IMO. ITS NOT that he can’t do it, just that until now it was not asked of him and he has not demonstrated he can (or can’t)

He is def in a great spot to maximize his potential. The way the game is played today I think it’s a really high ceiling.
The future of  
bLiTz 2k : 5/21/2023 4:25 pm : link
Hyatt and Robinson excites me as a fan.

Hodgins gives you the size and route running at the position, and while an upgrade there is in the cards next offseason, but this is a really fun young core to build around.

Each guy brings a different skill set and big play potential. Hoping to see them gel and become the next Cruz/Nicks/MM. (Heres to hoping)
RE: The future of  
ElitoCanton : 5/21/2023 4:36 pm : link
In comment 16120702 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
Hyatt and Robinson excites me as a fan.

Hodgins gives you the size and route running at the position, and while an upgrade there is in the cards next offseason, but this is a really fun young core to build around.

Each guy brings a different skill set and big play potential. Hoping to see them gel and become the next Cruz/Nicks/MM. (Heres to hoping)


I think Hodgins is really underrated. He's a very good route runner and has fantastic hands and spacial awareness. He's really perfect as a #3 possession receiver.
IMO  
JohnF : 5/21/2023 4:59 pm : link
Speed with pads on a football field is better than speed on a track wearing track pants.

Football isn't an Olympic track and field event, you get no medals for being the "fastest". Perhaps the best WR of all time, Jerry Rice, ran an unofficial 4.58 at his combine. When he was on the football field, NO single CB could cover him, though. And he ran past defenders with much faster combine times.

I'm NOT saying Hyatt is Rice, just that we need to see him on the field against NFL defenses. I have every confidence Daboll will be able to scheme him open, the rest is up to him.
"Agility" is overrated in a speed guy  
Reale01 : 5/21/2023 5:02 pm : link
I mean the ability to make quick multiple start, stop, reverse direction.

He will not need to use multiple moves to get open. If he can make sharp cuts on digs, outs, slants, post, and corners that one cut will be enough to create space.

He has already shown that on tape.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/21/2023 5:25 pm : link
Kid fucking wowed me in the Bama win last October.
His potential...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/21/2023 5:26 pm : link
...is the Alabama game.

I hope he reaches every bit of his potential.
Runs fast, tracks well, catches everything.  
Klaatu : 5/21/2023 5:32 pm : link
The sky's the limit.
Destroyed Alabama Secondary - Potential #1 WR of 2023  
geelabee : 5/21/2023 5:36 pm : link
6 catches + 207yards + 5 TD not just some run of the mill FBS program!!

Hyatt’s explosion against pro team Alabama highlights his potential as evidence by the 3 players that were just drafted from their secondary:

Brian Branch 2nd Rd #45 overall to Detroit

Jordan Battle 3rd Rd #70 overall to Raiders

DeMarcco Hellams 7th Rd #224 overall to Falcons

Plus numerous underclassman including CB Kool Aid McKinstry projected to go in the top 5 overall players in next years draft..Based on the performance against a pro team..I am sure we can safely say his game projects and can expect and demand similar performances as early as this fall..assuming God willing a big if..he can stay health..to me Hyatt is the most impressive member of this year’s draft class..
He lasted to the middle of the third round. Apparently, because  
Marty in Albany : 5/21/2023 5:59 pm : link
nobody is certain whether he can do EVERYTHING.

We DO know that he can run very fast and catch the ball. Apparently this is enough for the Giants, because it will slow the pass rush, open opportunities for other WRs, and free up the running game. Anything else he can do is icing on the cake.
Multiple one-on-ones  
ColHowPepper : 5/21/2023 6:16 pm : link
vs AJ and 'Tae and Flott in practice won't hurt his development, 3 very different physical styles
RE: RE: DonnieD89  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/21/2023 7:21 pm : link
In comment 16120597 DonnieD89 said:
Quote:
In comment 16120592 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


WRs come in different styles and flavor. Who is the best WR in Giants history in terms of consistent productivity over time? It was Amani Toomer. Does Amani Toomer come across to you as a 3-cone warrior?




No. Amani Toomer does not look like a 3-cone warrior; however, I couldn’t get any information Amani’s 3-cone time. I do understand the potential of Jalin taking the top off the opponents defense, but I am trying to figure out if he can do more. Link - ( New Window )


He's not a quick waterbug. You can see that watching him on field. He's eats up ground with those long strides. That doesn't mean he can't run other routes.

You seem to be asking for a WR who is good at everything. Even Jerry Rice wasn't a quick guy.
Good offensive coordinators stretch  
Chris L. : 5/21/2023 7:31 pm : link
a defense vertically and laterally to make the defense have to defend more territory. Hyatt was designed to stress the defense vertically. If you get more from him then that it is a bonus.
The most consequential take away from the segment  
jcp56 : 5/21/2023 9:31 pm : link
Was the potential for Daniel Jones. The reviewer wasn't a DJ fan, but said he throws a nice deep ball and should be in for a very big year.
"his three cone time and short shuttle time, which were average"  
Wildcardgiants : 5/22/2023 8:30 am : link
I think we all need to take a step back from the combine... these "measurables" are highly valued by the media because it gives the 24/7 sports talk geeks something to talk about. In reality the teams view the measurables as way less important than fans and media. GMs and coaches say it over and over but we don't hear it, we hear the media.

Henry Ruggs III ran a 4.27. How's that working out?
Javelin Guidry ran a 4.29

Justin Jefferson was ranked 19th at the 2020 combine and he's the best receiver in the league arguably...

And here we are talking CONE DRILLS. Geez.


Lets see what Madden 2023 says, they go solely by combine metrics too  
PatersonPlank : 5/22/2023 10:00 am : link
.
National draft prognosticators were all rating him - gone end of day 2  
Bob in Newburgh : 5/22/2023 10:14 am : link
but ranking him among the "names" were all over the place. Although the majority seemed to have him at the top of a tier 3 list of wrs, there are reputable scouts who ranked him #1 among wrs and a top 10 overrall rank.

Somebody must have voted for him for the Biletnikoff.
Is it  
Ron Johnson : 5/22/2023 11:59 am : link
even possible that a guy who can run 4.36 doesn't have "quicks"?
I like the Desean Jackson comp  
Jim in Forest Hills : 5/22/2023 12:06 pm : link
if he's there Im happy. I know I was worried about Jackson beating us over the top. I think Hyatt gives us that day 1. I also think the staff has a plan for him. HOnestly he's like SLayton just faster with better hands. How many times did we see Slayton open over the middle?
Potential  
AdamBrag : 5/22/2023 1:27 pm : link
He's a lot faster than the 4.40 he timed at the combine. He ran a laser timed 4.31 in high school. He has good hands. He's unquestionably a deep threat.

Could he be more?

It's tough to say. He didn't run many routes at Tennessee and he doesn't look great running routes right now. He also somehow looks out of shape for someone who is 175 pounds. Strength and conditioning should help him a lot.
I hate the DeSean Jackson comparison  
AJ23 : 5/22/2023 1:30 pm : link
Not saying it's wrong or not good for the Giants, but it feels like a very particular box to put a guy in who has yet to see an NFL snap.
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