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NFT: “Succession S4E9” Spoilers

JoeyBigBlue : 5/21/2023 10:48 pm
Amazing episode. One of the better episodes of this season IMO. I can’t wait for the finale. It’s Kendall vs Shiv/Mattson for the throne. Poor Roman is completely OUT.
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Kendall’s been teetering  
UConn4523 : 5/22/2023 12:05 pm : link
for the entirety of the show. I think he wants to do good while also take over the company and he keeps finding out it won’t work. He’s going to have to go all in.
The most I will say  
pjcas18 : 5/22/2023 12:09 pm : link
about Kendall is he has a shred of self awareness.

he acknowledges he's not a good father, but he's also responsible the death of a person and just basically got on with his life like a sociopath. that is not "good person" behavior.
RE: Kendall’s been teetering  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/22/2023 12:10 pm : link
In comment 16121045 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
for the entirety of the show. I think he wants to do good while also take over the company and he keeps finding out it won’t work. He’s going to have to go all in.


I think he realized that at the end of the episode. His wife took his kids, his sister has backstabbed him, and Roman is only looking out for his best interest. He’s going all in and taking the throne IMO.
Would be something if the finale is tilted "The Poison."  
Jacobs #27 : 5/22/2023 12:12 pm : link
...
It’s titled “with open eyes”  
UConn4523 : 5/22/2023 12:17 pm : link
and will be 90 minutes.
RE: The most I will say  
oghwga : 5/22/2023 12:17 pm : link
In comment 16121049 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
about Kendall is he has a shred of self awareness.

he acknowledges he's not a good father, but he's also responsible the death of a person and just basically got on with his life like a sociopath. that is not "good person" behavior.


I may be remembering it wrong but he was in a speeding car that swerved to avoid a deer and he actually went back in twice to try and save the guy. The dishonorable thing was the coverup but the guy was dead already.

That being said I have no idea what will happen next week except I don't think it will be Roman and I don't think Roman wants it to be Roman anymore.
RE: When you point it out that way  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/22/2023 12:18 pm : link
In comment 16120995 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Greg can basically blackmail everyone.

he knows Kendall is responsible for the dead waiter
he knows (and has proof) Tom instructed him to destroy the documents about the cruise ship sexual assaults
he knows Shiv is aware of the inflated Gojo subscriber numbers
he knows Mattson falsified the numbers, or it was done on his watch

Am I missing anything?

Roman basically took himself out.

Greg has a lot of wine bottles he can wield next week.


It’s certainly possible that the show goes scorched earth and EVERYONE is fucked. That would include Matsson not getting the company and Mencken not becoming President. In that scenario, maybe Gerri becomes interim CEO. Regardless of what happens, I think Greg is going to come out smelling like a rose.
RE: RE: The most I will say  
pjcas18 : 5/22/2023 12:19 pm : link
In comment 16121062 oghwga said:
Quote:
In comment 16121049 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


about Kendall is he has a shred of self awareness.

he acknowledges he's not a good father, but he's also responsible the death of a person and just basically got on with his life like a sociopath. that is not "good person" behavior.



I may be remembering it wrong but he was in a speeding car that swerved to avoid a deer and he actually went back in twice to try and save the guy. The dishonorable thing was the coverup but the guy was dead already.

That being said I have no idea what will happen next week except I don't think it will be Roman and I don't think Roman wants it to be Roman anymore.


he was drunk and on drugs, if that was real life, do you think that only the coverup is dishonorable?
It’s reprehensible  
UConn4523 : 5/22/2023 12:23 pm : link
but I don’t think it changes the good that exists within him, it just doesn’t come out that often because he’s trying to emulate his father. Logan wouldn’t have gone back to try and save him, for example. I think that’s the difference.
RE: RE: RE: The most I will say  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 5/22/2023 12:26 pm : link
In comment 16121066 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


he was drunk and on drugs, if that was real life, do you think that only the coverup is dishonorable?


But the other guy was there of his own volition. Kendall didn’t kidnap the guy. However, there’s no avoiding the complete stain that was the coverup and Logan taking Kendall to the guy’s family’s house to lie through their teeth.
he was a passenger if I recall correctly  
oghwga : 5/22/2023 12:26 pm : link
not great but not murder in my opinion
RE: It’s reprehensible  
pjcas18 : 5/22/2023 12:28 pm : link
In comment 16121073 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but I don’t think it changes the good that exists within him, it just doesn’t come out that often because he’s trying to emulate his father. Logan wouldn’t have gone back to try and save him, for example. I think that’s the difference.


lol, I don't know. Logan isn't Genghis Khan, but they're all morally bankrupt, mostly (only) just care about money and power, and finding the person with a hint of a conscious IMO doesn't really make them much better than the others.

Sure  
UConn4523 : 5/22/2023 12:31 pm : link
but they’ve spent a ton of time on Kendall’s arch and all along the way his internal struggle of trying to be better than his father while also realizing he needs to be like him to succeed. We can go character by character and rank their “goodness” but it’s subjective and probably a waste of time. I think it’s pretty clear Kendall is a better man than his father but that gap will shrink completely if he seizes the throne.
RE: I don't think it's true  
Eric on Li : 5/22/2023 1:15 pm : link
In comment 16121036 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
to say Kendall is becoming everything he despised. he was always a piece of shit.

From episode 1, Kendall never showed any morals, he was always just like Logan, but he was incompetent. Kendall only got a case of morals because Logan wouldn't name him successor and he thought he could force him out.


this post made me think of this part of ewan's eulogy:

Quote:
He was mean, and he made but a mean estimation of the world and he fed a certain kind of meagreness in men. Perhaps he had to because he had a meagreness about him and maybe I do about me too, I don’t know. I try. I try. I don’t know when but sometime he decided not to try anymore and it was a terrible shame.


i think the trying is the difference - kendall has always been conflicted and wanted to try to do what he perceives as the right thing. last week we saw him do it twice when he put his cards on the table with shiv and when he was conflicted trying to hold off roman.

is kendall now blowing through that orange light with his war dogs colin and hugo at his side?

to uconn's point if he does the kids are probably gone forever.
RE: RE: RE: The most I will say  
Mike from SI : 5/22/2023 1:34 pm : link
In comment 16121066 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16121062 oghwga said:


Quote:


In comment 16121049 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


about Kendall is he has a shred of self awareness.

he acknowledges he's not a good father, but he's also responsible the death of a person and just basically got on with his life like a sociopath. that is not "good person" behavior.



I may be remembering it wrong but he was in a speeding car that swerved to avoid a deer and he actually went back in twice to try and save the guy. The dishonorable thing was the coverup but the guy was dead already.

That being said I have no idea what will happen next week except I don't think it will be Roman and I don't think Roman wants it to be Roman anymore.



he was drunk and on drugs, if that was real life, do you think that only the coverup is dishonorable?


1. It was def dishonorable and under US law manslaughter of some sort.

2. This arc mirrors something that happened in real life, but I will follow Eric's rules and say no more.
The only upside of Greg winding up as CEO  
BlackLight : 5/22/2023 2:02 pm : link
is that we'll get think pieces about which end-of-series elevation made less sense: Greg to US CEO of Waystar, or Bran The Broken running Westeros.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The most I will say  
RicFlair : 5/22/2023 2:03 pm : link
In comment 16121127 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 16121066 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 16121062 oghwga said:


Quote:


In comment 16121049 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


about Kendall is he has a shred of self awareness.

he acknowledges he's not a good father, but he's also responsible the death of a person and just basically got on with his life like a sociopath. that is not "good person" behavior.



I may be remembering it wrong but he was in a speeding car that swerved to avoid a deer and he actually went back in twice to try and save the guy. The dishonorable thing was the coverup but the guy was dead already.

That being said I have no idea what will happen next week except I don't think it will be Roman and I don't think Roman wants it to be Roman anymore.



he was drunk and on drugs, if that was real life, do you think that only the coverup is dishonorable?



1. It was def dishonorable and under US law manslaughter of some sort.

2. This arc mirrors something that happened in real life, but I will follow Eric's rules and say no more.



Which one of Eric’s rules prevents you from telling us the real life event that inspired that part of a tv show?
Likely  
RicFlair : 5/22/2023 2:05 pm : link
Referring to Ted Kennedy?

It’s not political talk to say that event inspired the series.
acting is so great  
bluefin : 5/22/2023 3:17 pm : link
except for Kendall’s ex…”I ,I..I (*twitch*)eh,…eh, eh…(*twitch*twitch*)..”
Her scenes are distracting.
RE: Likely  
Mike from SI : 5/22/2023 4:05 pm : link
In comment 16121156 RicFlair said:
Quote:
Referring to Ted Kennedy?

It’s not political talk to say that event inspired the series.


Yes. I've been not making the obvious connection to ATN, either. Even though it's beyond obvious what the references are, I've had people ruin completely innocuous threads for even mentioning politicians. There was one recently (I'm blanking on the topic) with really good discussion where a few clowns felt the need to roll through and start getting political. It's like a mosquito light for some people.

Anyway, if art mirrors life, Kendall could get away with it, which was my point that I should have stated.
I’m so tired of Kendall’s character.  
bradshaw44 : 5/22/2023 7:08 pm : link
That demeanor was interesting for maybe 8 minutes. Now the whole “I’m so keyed in and deep” persona is ridiculous. Makes me want to punch him. It’s weak.
RE: I still think it’s Kendall  
Giantophile : 12:25 pm : link
In comment 16120895 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
He’s always had an affinity for his siblings and now he has learned that in order to get to the top he has to run over them. He realized Roman isn’t a real threat and Shiv betrayed him by going behind his back, so he will do everything possible to win the throne. You saw the pieces lining up, with gathering up Hugo and Colin. Plus he has always had Frank at this side. I think he’s gaining momentum and really starting to hit his stride.


I agree with this take. This is my prediction
The Will  
JOrthman : 12:55 pm : link
Isn't there something about the Will out there? They saw a draft in his office, but there has been no mention of it since.
Okay, so I didn't know who the guy was that Kendal  
Gruber : 5/24/2023 3:32 pm : link
is holding a hand out to, and now I do, he's the security guy from the whole Scottish incident.
Is this a big red herring, re-introducing him in the penultimate episode or is it hugely significant?
If Mencken could insist, it would make sense for him to insist on Kendall as CEO, but he can't insist.
I don't believe Madsen fears Shiv, rather he genuinely sees her as in harmony more or less with his own outlook.
Roman is not a player anymore, not after his performance at the funeral, and yes, it reallly does go like that when you blub in front of all the powerful and influential. Kendal understands that.
Tom is a possibility if Madsen wants someone to bend over, which is plausible.
If you have Tom, why would you choose Greg instead? I just don't see it.
RE: Okay, so I didn't know who the guy was that Kendal  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/24/2023 3:57 pm : link
In comment 16122609 Gruber said:
Quote:
is holding a hand out to, and now I do, he's the security guy from the whole Scottish incident.
Is this a big red herring, re-introducing him in the penultimate episode or is it hugely significant?
If Mencken could insist, it would make sense for him to insist on Kendall as CEO, but he can't insist.
I don't believe Madsen fears Shiv, rather he genuinely sees her as in harmony more or less with his own outlook.
Roman is not a player anymore, not after his performance at the funeral, and yes, it reallly does go like that when you blub in front of all the powerful and influential. Kendal understands that.
Tom is a possibility if Madsen wants someone to bend over, which is plausible.
If you have Tom, why would you choose Greg instead? I just don't see it.



The security guy you are referring to is Colin, who has been in the series entirely as Logan’s head of security and muscle.
Didn't the phone call  
fkap : 5/24/2023 4:14 pm : link
from Mattson to Shiv pretty much seal the deal that they agreed to Shiv as CEO if the deal goes through?

If not, what was the call about?

If so, it ends all speculation of who will be CEO. Shiv if the deal goes through. Kendall if the deal is blocked.
What remains is how everything blows up. Does Mencken block the deal, even though the election is still contested, and he's months away from taking office? Is Kendall blackmailed into backing down/forced to accept the deal? Roman is disgraced, so Kendall is all that's left.
RE: Didn't the phone call  
RicFlair : 5/24/2023 4:20 pm : link
In comment 16122630 fkap said:
Quote:
from Mattson to Shiv pretty much seal the deal that they agreed to Shiv as CEO if the deal goes through?

If not, what was the call about?

If so, it ends all speculation of who will be CEO. Shiv if the deal goes through. Kendall if the deal is blocked.
What remains is how everything blows up. Does Mencken block the deal, even though the election is still contested, and he's months away from taking office? Is Kendall blackmailed into backing down/forced to accept the deal? Roman is disgraced, so Kendall is all that's left.





I’ve learned nobody on this show can be trusted at their word.
RE: RE: Didn't the phone call  
Eric on Li : 5/24/2023 4:58 pm : link
In comment 16122637 RicFlair said:
Quote:
In comment 16122630 fkap said:


Quote:


from Mattson to Shiv pretty much seal the deal that they agreed to Shiv as CEO if the deal goes through?

If not, what was the call about?

If so, it ends all speculation of who will be CEO. Shiv if the deal goes through. Kendall if the deal is blocked.
What remains is how everything blows up. Does Mencken block the deal, even though the election is still contested, and he's months away from taking office? Is Kendall blackmailed into backing down/forced to accept the deal? Roman is disgraced, so Kendall is all that's left.


I’ve learned nobody on this show can be trusted at their word.


yeah for me that call basically guaranteed it won't end with shiv. if matsson gets the company i think he screws her, or somehow kendall wins, possibly bc shiv realizes that and screws mattson instead.

i think the earlier post in this thread about kendall ultimately choosing between ceo or his family but not both is a great unifying theory of the series. and probably ends with him choosing ceo.
Id  
mitch300 : 5/24/2023 5:32 pm : link
Love to all the kids except Connor go to jail. It won’t happen. But, I would love to see them taken away in handcuffs.
RE: Id  
pjcas18 : 5/24/2023 5:47 pm : link
In comment 16122670 mitch300 said:
Quote:
Love to all the kids except Connor go to jail. It won’t happen. But, I would love to see them taken away in handcuffs.


Lol, a Seinfeld ending? Them all in the same jail cell, commiserating about all the people they wronged.

I can see Tom and Greg ending up in a shared jail cell - that would be funny.

RE: RE: Okay, so I didn't know who the guy was that Kendal  
Gruber : 5/25/2023 8:42 am : link
In comment 16122624 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 16122609 Gruber said:


Quote:


is holding a hand out to, and now I do, he's the security guy from the whole Scottish incident.
Is this a big red herring, re-introducing him in the penultimate episode or is it hugely significant?
If Mencken could insist, it would make sense for him to insist on Kendall as CEO, but he can't insist.
I don't believe Madsen fears Shiv, rather he genuinely sees her as in harmony more or less with his own outlook.
Roman is not a player anymore, not after his performance at the funeral, and yes, it reallly does go like that when you blub in front of all the powerful and influential. Kendal understands that.
Tom is a possibility if Madsen wants someone to bend over, which is plausible.
If you have Tom, why would you choose Greg instead? I just don't see it.




The security guy you are referring to is Colin, who has been in the series entirely as Logan’s head of security and muscle.

I know that's who he is, but have we heard from him during this season?
RE: RE: RE: Okay, so I didn't know who the guy was that Kendal  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/25/2023 8:44 am : link
In comment 16122882 Gruber said:
Quote:
In comment 16122624 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 16122609 Gruber said:


Quote:


is holding a hand out to, and now I do, he's the security guy from the whole Scottish incident.
Is this a big red herring, re-introducing him in the penultimate episode or is it hugely significant?
If Mencken could insist, it would make sense for him to insist on Kendall as CEO, but he can't insist.
I don't believe Madsen fears Shiv, rather he genuinely sees her as in harmony more or less with his own outlook.
Roman is not a player anymore, not after his performance at the funeral, and yes, it reallly does go like that when you blub in front of all the powerful and influential. Kendal understands that.
Tom is a possibility if Madsen wants someone to bend over, which is plausible.
If you have Tom, why would you choose Greg instead? I just don't see it.




The security guy you are referring to is Colin, who has been in the series entirely as Logan’s head of security and muscle.


I know that's who he is, but have we heard from him during this season?



Yes, he was with Logan at diner having the weird conversation about life and death.
RE: RE: Didn't the phone call  
Gruber : 5/25/2023 8:44 am : link
In comment 16122637 RicFlair said:
Quote:
In comment 16122630 fkap said:


Quote:


from Mattson to Shiv pretty much seal the deal that they agreed to Shiv as CEO if the deal goes through?

If not, what was the call about?

If so, it ends all speculation of who will be CEO. Shiv if the deal goes through. Kendall if the deal is blocked.
What remains is how everything blows up. Does Mencken block the deal, even though the election is still contested, and he's months away from taking office? Is Kendall blackmailed into backing down/forced to accept the deal? Roman is disgraced, so Kendall is all that's left.






I’ve learned nobody on this show can be trusted at their word.

Exactly.
Also, is this definitely the final season? Or might they leave us with the possibility of "to be continued."
Disappointed not to see more of Stewy.
Is Kendal going to get away with what happened in Scotland?
How can Shiv win  
Essex : 5/25/2023 9:35 am : link
what she is asking for is not even the empire. She asking to be bought out and then an at-will employee of the new owner. What's the win there.

Earlier in the season Kendall said it best when Mattson tried to buy them out "we are already rich"--

not sure I understand why a billionaire would sell to be then appointed CEO when they can have that in the first place. I mean if you are talking dollars and cents because of Mattson's offer it might make financial sense, but when you are billionaire who the heck cares if you really want to run things. The whole Shiv wins thing would be absurd. Also, her selling herself to Mattson was a complete and utter embarrassment.

Roman can't be the leader after that meltdown and Kendall is just too damaged to be the leader.

I don't really know where they can go with his ending other than to see all the kids screwed and not succeed Logan. But the worst outcome would be Shiv's because her plan is to basically be an employee after cashing out. What kind of succession is that and how long will that last.

You are answering that question  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2023 9:57 am : link
as a non billionaire. Shiv wants power, plain and simple. She wants to be the one running her fathers company. She cares, a lot.
RE: You are answering that question  
Essex : 5/25/2023 9:59 am : link
In comment 16122918 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
as a non billionaire. Shiv wants power, plain and simple. She wants to be the one running her fathers company. She cares, a lot.

Ok, but she still serves at Mattson's will. The point of being a billionaire is power. She cedes all power for excess money that she does not need. It makes almost no sense. If she wants to run the company, she shouldn't sell. He can fire her in two minutes alas the whole her selling herself as the CEO to him, even to the point of saying she would spit out her baby in 36 hours.
She gets to run her family’s company  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2023 10:05 am : link
and her brother don’t, which has been the entirety of the show plot. Not sure what language would exist in her contract to keep herself from being fired immediately but that seems like a plausible scenario. But I don’t think that matters - if Shivs plan works she wins and the brother lose which is the point of the show.
RE: She gets to run her family’s company  
Essex : 5/25/2023 10:23 am : link
In comment 16122933 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and her brother don’t, which has been the entirety of the show plot. Not sure what language would exist in her contract to keep herself from being fired immediately but that seems like a plausible scenario. But I don’t think that matters - if Shivs plan works she wins and the brother lose which is the point of the show.


Not sure what victory that would be other than spite. Fine, she one ups her brothers but that is not a victory at all--to run the empire you dad had without owning that empire. At least Kendall and Roman's plan to keep the empire makes sense. Shiv's makes absolutely no sense whatsoever other than spite. So we watched four seasons, so they can sell off the empire and have the daughter become an at-will employee of another guy just so she can shove it to her brothers. Seems like a complete and utter waste of time.
Put yourself within the context of the show  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2023 10:28 am : link
and how stupid these characters are. If they operated your way there wouldn’t be a show or, they would have had this wrapped up by now with the kids smartening up, taking over and moving on. Spite is exactly what we’ve witnessed for 4 seasons.
RE: RE: She gets to run her family’s company  
Jim in Forest Hills : 5/25/2023 10:29 am : link
In comment 16122946 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 16122933 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


and her brother don’t, which has been the entirety of the show plot. Not sure what language would exist in her contract to keep herself from being fired immediately but that seems like a plausible scenario. But I don’t think that matters - if Shivs plan works she wins and the brother lose which is the point of the show.



Not sure what victory that would be other than spite. Fine, she one ups her brothers but that is not a victory at all--to run the empire you dad had without owning that empire. At least Kendall and Roman's plan to keep the empire makes sense. Shiv's makes absolutely no sense whatsoever other than spite. So we watched four seasons, so they can sell off the empire and have the daughter become an at-will employee of another guy just so she can shove it to her brothers. Seems like a complete and utter waste of time.


I agree thats the shittiest outcome for the family but from Shiv's side, once they excluded her from the CEO role, what play did she really have? You could see them already squeezing her out. Or are you just saying the writing needed to take her in another direction. (And I dont think Shiv gets the nod in any case)
RE: RE: You are answering that question  
JoeyBigBlue : 5/25/2023 10:32 am : link
In comment 16122925 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 16122918 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


as a non billionaire. Shiv wants power, plain and simple. She wants to be the one running her fathers company. She cares, a lot.


Ok, but she still serves at Mattson's will. The point of being a billionaire is power. She cedes all power for excess money that she does not need. It makes almost no sense. If she wants to run the company, she shouldn't sell. He can fire her in two minutes alas the whole her selling herself as the CEO to him, even to the point of saying she would spit out her baby in 36 hours.



After seeing the episode a second time, I am convinced Shiv will not be the CEO of Waystar. One of two things will happen. Either Mattson buys out the company and appoints someone he trust as CEO (to appease Mencken) or Kendall will win out and be named the CEO. For all of Kendall’s faults he has shown tremendous growth this season, especially now that he is out of his father’s shadow.
RE: RE: RE: She gets to run her family’s company  
Essex : 5/25/2023 10:34 am : link
In comment 16122952 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
In comment 16122946 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 16122933 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


and her brother don’t, which has been the entirety of the show plot. Not sure what language would exist in her contract to keep herself from being fired immediately but that seems like a plausible scenario. But I don’t think that matters - if Shivs plan works she wins and the brother lose which is the point of the show.



Not sure what victory that would be other than spite. Fine, she one ups her brothers but that is not a victory at all--to run the empire you dad had without owning that empire. At least Kendall and Roman's plan to keep the empire makes sense. Shiv's makes absolutely no sense whatsoever other than spite. So we watched four seasons, so they can sell off the empire and have the daughter become an at-will employee of another guy just so she can shove it to her brothers. Seems like a complete and utter waste of time.



I agree thats the shittiest outcome for the family but from Shiv's side, once they excluded her from the CEO role, what play did she really have? You could see them already squeezing her out. Or are you just saying the writing needed to take her in another direction. (And I dont think Shiv gets the nod in any case)

Yes, I am arguing that they had to take Shiv in another direction. Imo, ending the show (if Shiv wins) by selling the empire where she becomes the employee would not really be a succession to me of controlling the empire. She, in effect, would have no control as you saw her having to resort to begging Mattson to make her CEO. Maybe if she partnered up with Mattson in a financial way to purchase it etc, it would make more sense, but her in the end being an employee of Mattson's company with what I would guess is some stock from the sale, is not a satisfying ending imo.
If Shiv  
pjcas18 : 5/25/2023 10:52 am : link
is named American CEO of Gojo-Waystar she basically wins.

She is the successor, it's what they've all been after since episode 1 and basically the title of the show. You can always say, "they're all billionaires, how do they lose?" but that's not how they think. They crave the power. If it's just money they're basically Connor, who everyone views as a loser.

If Shiv really has the chops her old man did, I think she would do something like be named CEO and then have Matsson taken away in cuffs for fraud, etc. for cooking the books. She warned him at least 3 times to go public with the "incorrect" subscriber counts and then she would become global CEO.

.....  
BrettNYG10 : 5/25/2023 10:57 am : link
Shiv being a castrated CEO sort of makes sense. I don't think it will go that way.

I'm curious on how they do this episode. There is a lot to resolve. The election, its impact on the deal, whether the deal goes through, and who is CEO. And then maybe dealing with the estate?

If I had to guess (and this is a low confident bet), there is something in the will that throws a wrench into a lot of this.

Maybe the fraud Kendall/Roman committed doctoring Logan's voice comes into play.

I have not really loved this season but did like the last episode. Curious on how they end things.
RE: If Shiv  
Essex : 5/25/2023 10:59 am : link
In comment 16122976 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is named American CEO of Gojo-Waystar she basically wins.

She is the successor, it's what they've all been after since episode 1 and basically the title of the show. You can always say, "they're all billionaires, how do they lose?" but that's not how they think. They crave the power. If it's just money they're basically Connor, who everyone views as a loser.

If Shiv really has the chops her old man did, I think she would do something like be named CEO and then have Matsson taken away in cuffs for fraud, etc. for cooking the books. She warned him at least 3 times to go public with the "incorrect" subscriber counts and then she would become global CEO.


I would argue Shiv loses because she isn’t in control of her own destiny. That isn’t succession in my mind. Kendall and Roman can lose big time also because they want the company. Kendall said it best to Mattson “we are already rich”—they want control that keeps them owning the company. Shiv’s control is a lot more fragile and can be changed at the whim of anotjrt eccentric billionaire. That isn’t succeeding Logan to the throne. At best, that is being a caretaker of the throne until the new eccentric billionaire changes his mind
By that logic  
pjcas18 : 5/25/2023 11:06 am : link
Logan wasn't any more in control of his destiny either.

He faced a vote of no confidence. He "won" but how did he control his destiny?

Plus he was on the verge of losing the company when the stock plummeted (after his stroke?)

no one ever truly controls their destiny in business like this.
Shiv hates everyone  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2023 11:09 am : link
she hated her father, doesn’t like her brothers, hates her husband, has no friends. She operates so others lose even if she doesn’t exclusively win. Her becoming the CEO is a win, since she’s still standing and everyone else isn’t. You may not see that as succession but her character does.
RE: By that logic  
Essex : 5/25/2023 11:18 am : link
In comment 16122999 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Logan wasn't any more in control of his destiny either.

He faced a vote of no confidence. He "won" but how did he control his destiny?

Plus he was on the verge of losing the company when the stock plummeted (after his stroke?)

no one ever truly controls their destiny in business like this.


I think we have all stated our points, but Logan needed his entire family to rebel to lose power (which almost happened) until Tom alerted him and he could get his ex-wife (who btw is an amazing character he’d seen with Kerry and Marcia stole Sunday night imo) on his side. Shiv’s power would be a lot more flimsy and would basically have no moves if one person wanted her out
Nothing is safe to assume with this show  
UConn4523 : 5/25/2023 11:22 am : link
as Pjcas pointed out Shiv can just as easily take over the company from Mattsen as he can fire her. The writers have left themselves with a bunch of options.
Sure, Shiv would 'just be an employee'  
fkap : 5/25/2023 5:37 pm : link
but her position is CEO, which is her goal. She knows she's not getting it if the company remains in family hands. Even if she did get CEO with the company in family hands, she has two greedy brothers looking to take her out and assume the mantle herself. Her position is not safe any way you look at it.

All the family showed they were willing to backstab the others, including Connor (although his backstab was more of the knucklehead, clueless, blunder-the refusal to accept a diplomatic post after asking for one, and having Roman set one up - than intentional malice). Shiv's no better, or worse, than the others.
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