Given the circumstances what Jones and the offense accomplished last year was pretty remarkable. I would have put the odds of the Giants having a top half offense in the single digits going in.
Second year in the system, a new contract in hand, coming off a healthy year, and improvements at every level -- is this the year Jones clearly establishes himself as a no debate top 10 QB?
Mahomes, Burrows, Allen, Hurts, Herbert and Lawerence are the top group.
I think Jones already showed enough to be solidly in the next group of 10ish if you look at the tape rather than numbers. Of course I'm sure it's the same with a few other QBs.
With reasonable health I'd expect Jone to put up numbers that make a strong case he's toward the top of that next group. So yeah, top 10.
Exactly. That's my point: After the top 4-6 guys comes the muddled middle.
How good the surrounding cast must be?
And now, he's got to be in a great place mentally after getting the contract, entering year 2 with Daboll/Kafka while suddenly having the best supporting cast he's ever had, with a legit #1 target in Waller.
As a human being I can't imagine how much better this guy must feel. He's been through a lot.
He did have 22 total. I’d like to see the giants score more tds in 23. I’d like to see them score 400 pts.
It’s all about pts scored in my view but there can be instances where clutch pts matter more than anything else. Not all 400 pt seasons are created equal much like last year’s 365 pt scored output was better than 2018’s nyg scoring output.
Jones shouldn’t be judged on 15 tds alone. He did more than that in 2022. He’ll be fine in 2023 as well.
Scoring 400 points is one of the best predictors of making the playoffs in recent seasons. That should be the goal.
Only the 8-9 Bucs scored fewer points than the Giants and made the tournament last year.
I've come to believe Jones's success will be reflected in PPG, and not necessarily his individual numbers.
Scoring 400 points is one of the best predictors of making the playoffs in recent seasons. That should be the goal.
Only the 8-9 Bucs scored fewer points than the Giants and made the tournament last year.
I've come to believe Jones's success will be reflected in PPG, and not necessarily his individual numbers.
Mahomes, Burrows, Allen, Hurts, Herbert and Lawerence are the top group.
The bell curve is the wrong way to think of the NFL talent pool. Football ability/skill is normally distributed through the entire population. NFL players are a tiny slice of one end. So there are way, way more bad NFL players than outstanding ones. If you just look at QBs, there’s a tail on the right but a strep slope on the left. Way more bad QBs than good ones.
I would bet he throws more interceptions but also more TDs as the offense takes more risks given the personnel.
If he regresses absent a rash of major injuries, than we are probably in major trouble, since signs will then point to 2022 being the outlier season in the grand scheme of things.
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Like many things in life follow, I think players are best grouped by 80/20 bell curve -- in the NFL top 5-6, bottom 5-6, with the rest in the muddled middle.
Mahomes, Burrows, Allen, Hurts, Herbert and Lawerence are the top group.
The bell curve is the wrong way to think of the NFL talent pool. Football ability/skill is normally distributed through the entire population. NFL players are a tiny slice of one end. So there are way, way more bad NFL players than outstanding ones. If you just look at QBs, there’s a tail on the right but a strep slope on the left. Way more bad QBs than good ones.
My experience is the bell curve pretty much always works. Skim off the cream and it applies within the cream. It's like a fractal image.
It’s a FF world nowadays..
I thought both road Minnesota games this last year were the best games of his career
That's because quarterbacks don't win superbowls. Football teams do.
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yesterday on NFLN. Rewatching it, I can't believe there were people who didn't want to re-sign Jones after that game. Put the team on his back in the second half. But only one touchdown pass, so apparently it doesn't count for some.
It’s a FF world nowadays..
Yes. Some fans had yet to recognize DJ's ability to carry the team.
Scoring 400 points is one of the best predictors of making the playoffs in recent seasons. That should be the goal.
Only the 8-9 Bucs scored fewer points than the Giants and made the tournament last year.
I've come to believe Jones's success will be reflected in PPG, and not necessarily his individual numbers.
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The QB he has been for 4 years will not win a SB. He needs to improve. How much he improves or does not improve is the key to the 2023 season .
That's because quarterbacks don't win superbowls. Football teams do.
Eh, without Mahomes the Chiefs don't IMO.
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The QB he has been for 4 years will not win a SB. He needs to improve. How much he improves or does not improve is the key to the 2023 season .
That's because quarterbacks don't win superbowls. Football teams do.
Football teams used to win super bowls.
There's a stat that says all Super Bowl defenses with 55+ sacks won the Super Bowl, until the 49ers and Eagles of the last few years lost it. Those old Giants' teams were 55+ sacks and you saw how it was the difference.
The Bucs got lucky that KC had no OL, and then on top of that, Brady is possibly the only QB with enough star power to counter Mahomes' for preferential treatment (of which he received a shit load of in that game). Kirk Cousins could've won that game for Tampa, but it wouldn't have been a blowout.
The only teams beating KC so far are Cincy and Buffalo, and maybe the Chargers too if that lined up as a playoff bout.
Hell the Jets might be capable of it too because of Rodgers star power.
The Rams with Stafford might've been able to beat KC in that SB but seeing how they barely beat the Bengals, feels doubtful, and certainly not going forward.
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The Giants offense simply needs to score more points.
Scoring 400 points is one of the best predictors of making the playoffs in recent seasons. That should be the goal.
Only the 8-9 Bucs scored fewer points than the Giants and made the tournament last year.
I've come to believe Jones's success will be reflected in PPG, and not necessarily his individual numbers.
Solid post. I agree that points per game is a fair measure. I expect a breakout year. I was a competitive chess player in my teen years. Last year, we actually played chess with our offense. What I mean by that is, that we gave the opponent looks early that we used later in the game to score. This common to most of the NFL. It was not in NY under Judge and Garret. You really have to throw out the Judge years to evaluate Jones. If year 4 followed year 1 we are all talking differently about Jones. Jones has talent and is willing grind. Big year coming. Believe that.
Think about Mcadoo and how detrimental he was to gameplanning, insisting on 11 personnel when your WR corp is laid waste by injuries.
There's a stat that says all Super Bowl defenses with 55+ sacks won the Super Bowl, until the 49ers and Eagles of the last few years lost it. Those old Giants' teams were 55+ sacks and you saw how it was the difference.
The Bucs got lucky that KC had no OL, and then on top of that, Brady is possibly the only QB with enough star power to counter Mahomes' for preferential treatment (of which he received a shit load of in that game). Kirk Cousins could've won that game for Tampa, but it wouldn't have been a blowout.
The only teams beating KC so far are Cincy and Buffalo, and maybe the Chargers too if that lined up as a playoff bout.
Hell the Jets might be capable of it too because of Rodgers star power.
The Rams with Stafford might've been able to beat KC in that SB but seeing how they barely beat the Bengals, feels doubtful, and certainly not going forward.
Thanks for reminding me those pussies lost the Super Bowl last year. I love it. Always makes me giggle no matter what type of mood I am in. Absolute garbage fans and yes I am compensating for the weirdo Philly sympathizers that are on this very site.
How good the surrounding cast must be?
If he's not in the first tier then your question really is how good he and his surrounding cast have to be in the second tier to rise to Super Bowl level. That's the real question. It becomes a team quality question at that point.
Historically, there have been some quarterbacks who carried good but not great teams on their backs through the Super Bowl. Eli was the classic example of that.
In the 2023 season it would take a performance like Eli's to get to the playoffs and win the SB. So that's the real question. Can DJ carry the team to a level eliminating Philly and Dallas in the divisional playoffs and sustain that level in the conference playoffs to get to the SB?
Great point. Jones stature on this team feels like Brady or Rodgers once had with their teams (talking strictly about leadership and respect).
On a different note, this study on the 80/20 rule uses pro sports athletes as an example (MLB players and WAR)
https://dlab.berkeley.edu/news/explaining-80-20-rule-pareto-distribution
Every game I re-watch I feel the same way. Even some of the ho hum affairs like Houston or Carolina, Jones made big time plays in both games. Won both games. Then fans come on here and bitch about his stats.
Jones was the best player on offense last year. HE literally carried the offense (barkley too) with his legs and decision making.
15 tds!! Wahh!!
Never mind that Jones won. Never mind that Jones was a top 10 FF QB in 2022. 15 fucking TDs. It's all I can bitch about so I will say it over and over and over and I will not use my brain.
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yesterday on NFLN. Rewatching it, I can't believe there were people who didn't want to re-sign Jones after that game. Put the team on his back in the second half. But only one touchdown pass, so apparently it doesn't count for some.
It’s a FF world nowadays..
I know. And that's the even weirder part.
Daniel Jones is Cam Newton and I mean that in a good way. Wake up people. The guy is really fucking good.
But Jones needs to elevate his teammates? Yeah, he fucking did that.
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Throw more than 15 tds.
He did have 22 total. I’d like to see the giants score more tds in 23. I’d like to see them score 400 pts.
It’s all about pts scored in my view but there can be instances where clutch pts matter more than anything else. Not all 400 pt seasons are created equal much like last year’s 365 pt scored output was better than 2018’s nyg scoring output.
Jones shouldn’t be judged on 15 tds alone. He did more than that in 2022. He’ll be fine in 2023 as well.
I’m not judging him alone on 15tds.
All I said was I’d like to see him throw for more than 15 this year. Wouldn’t we all like to see that?
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yesterday on NFLN. Rewatching it, I can't believe there were people who didn't want to re-sign Jones after that game. Put the team on his back in the second half. But only one touchdown pass, so apparently it doesn't count for some.
Every game I re-watch I feel the same way. Even some of the ho hum affairs like Houston or Carolina, Jones made big time plays in both games. Won both games. Then fans come on here and bitch about his stats.
Jones was the best player on offense last year. HE literally carried the offense (barkley too) with his legs and decision making.
15 tds!! Wahh!!
Never mind that Jones won. Never mind that Jones was a top 10 FF QB in 2022. 15 fucking TDs. It's all I can bitch about so I will say it over and over and over and I will not use my brain.
^ this. +1
I’m not judging him alone on 15tds.
All I said was I’d like to see him throw for more than 15 this year. Wouldn’t we all like to see that?
You cannot talk to some of these people. Don't worry about it. They take every comment on here as if it's a personal attack lol
Dying? Now who's the murderer?!
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who really pays any attention to DJ naysayers? They’re almost a dying breed..😎
Dying? Now who's the murderer?!
😂
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In comment 16121370 RicFlair said:
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Throw more than 15 tds.
He did have 22 total. I’d like to see the giants score more tds in 23. I’d like to see them score 400 pts.
It’s all about pts scored in my view but there can be instances where clutch pts matter more than anything else. Not all 400 pt seasons are created equal much like last year’s 365 pt scored output was better than 2018’s nyg scoring output.
Jones shouldn’t be judged on 15 tds alone. He did more than that in 2022. He’ll be fine in 2023 as well.
I’m not judging him alone on 15tds.
All I said was I’d like to see him throw for more than 15 this year. Wouldn’t we all like to see that?
I want to see 400 ots on offense. I couldn't care less about how many TDs Jones throws or runs for.
It's all about pts scored. DJ can throw the ball just fine and anyone questioning the guy's ability to find the EZ is over thinking it. HE threw 23-24 TDS in his rookie year.
I still don't know why we don't count all the TDs like we did for guys like Vick and NEwton. I wait I know why. NYG QB double standard. It happened with Simms. Happened with Eli. Happening again with Jones.
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I’m not judging him alone on 15tds.
All I said was I’d like to see him throw for more than 15 this year. Wouldn’t we all like to see that?
You cannot talk to some of these people. Don't worry about it. They take every comment on here as if it's a personal attack lol
15 tds is the most annoying comment from football fans over the last 6 months. It not only cheapens what DJ did accomplish in 22 it overstates passing TD totals.
No one said it was personal attack. It's just an overstated line that we're sick of seeing.
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In comment 16121445 djm said:
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In comment 16121370 RicFlair said:
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Throw more than 15 tds.
He did have 22 total. I’d like to see the giants score more tds in 23. I’d like to see them score 400 pts.
It’s all about pts scored in my view but there can be instances where clutch pts matter more than anything else. Not all 400 pt seasons are created equal much like last year’s 365 pt scored output was better than 2018’s nyg scoring output.
Jones shouldn’t be judged on 15 tds alone. He did more than that in 2022. He’ll be fine in 2023 as well.
I’m not judging him alone on 15tds.
All I said was I’d like to see him throw for more than 15 this year. Wouldn’t we all like to see that?
I want to see 400 ots on offense. I couldn't care less about how many TDs Jones throws or runs for.
It's all about pts scored. DJ can throw the ball just fine and anyone questioning the guy's ability to find the EZ is over thinking it. HE threw 23-24 TDS in his rookie year.
I still don't know why we don't count all the TDs like we did for guys like Vick and NEwton. I wait I know why. NYG QB double standard. It happened with Simms. Happened with Eli. Happening again with Jones.
Good you agree. More touchdowns thrown means more points.
Jones isn't the only variable here. I think if Neal takes a big step this year we will see more deep shots, a better offense, etc.
I am still a little skeptical on the weapons. Waller is great but our receivers are still TBD.
I was debating starting a thread on whether we will score more points this year than last. There are a ton of moving pieces here.
Probably Positive: Neal should be better, the weapons are better, second year in the same system.
Possible Negatives: Does Thomas maintain being the best LT in the league, does Saquon take a step back, does Waller stay healthy, does Jones stay healthy, do teams adjust to Daboll's coaching, etc.
I think it's unlikely Jones doesn't miss time and I'm not optimistic Saquon can produce at the 2022 level again. But I think Neal takes a step and the line is better. Ignoring Jones, I still do not think we have the weapons to have an elite passing offense.
15 tds is the most annoying comment from football fans over the last 6 months. It not only cheapens what DJ did accomplish in 22 it overstates passing TD totals.
No one said it was personal attack. It's just an overstated line that we're sick of seeing.
15 touchdown passes ... just isn't a lot by today's NFL standards. I don't care how many times it gets said. He was just saying he'd like the numbers to go up, not really a personal attack on Jones.