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NFL screwing with the game again - kickoffs

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/23/2023 11:35 am
Ari Meirov @MySportsUpdate

NFL owners have approved a proposal to spot the ball at the 25-yard line on a fair catch of a kickoff made inside the 25. It's a 1-year trial for now.

Special teams coordinators and players around the league were against this. It's happening, anyway.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/23/2023 11:35 am : link
Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
4m
The NFL has passed a new rule instituting all fair catches and touchbacks come out to the 25-yard line on kickoffs, source said. Now the same as the college rule, the thought is that this should make it safer, though special teams coaches around the league oppose the change.
 
christian : 5/23/2023 11:37 am : link
In college do you just need to signal or do you actually have to complete the fair catch?
Making the game safer  
mittenedman : 5/23/2023 11:37 am : link
by not playing football.

Brilliant!
The next step  
Blueworm : 5/23/2023 11:48 am : link
Will be spotting the ball at the 25 automatically instead of a kickoff.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/23/2023 11:50 am : link
Albert Breer
@AlbertBreer
·
17m
Kickoff rule approved. So Roger Goodell was able to get the votes needed despite aggressive pushback from special teams coaches and players.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/23/2023 11:51 am : link
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
17m
Madness. A coach told me: “For the 1st time I can remember, you have coaches & players unanimously agreeing against a rule & it is being completely ignored. They’re making a rule w/ no one in the room to actually speak for the game: coaches, GMs. Anybody.”
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/23/2023 11:52 am : link
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
7m
NFL doctors’ evidence that this kickoff change had improved player safety in college was based on … wait for this … one season of Pac-12 data, per sources

Players & coaches foresee unintended consequences with a rule that completely misunderstands 🏈
Long  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/23/2023 11:53 am : link
story short, the NFL (and much of corporate America) is now run by retards.
This  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/23/2023 11:57 am : link
will really help the fan experience...

Your team scores.

Commercial.

Kickoff that is fair caught and comes out to 25 yard line.

Commercial.

The team with the prettier uniform  
GiantSteps : 5/23/2023 12:05 pm : link
gets a complimentary touchdown to start the game, as per league source
so now kickoffs  
Giantsfan79 : 5/23/2023 12:06 pm : link
will become squib kicks which can't be fair caught?
RE: The next step  
Mayo2JZ : 5/23/2023 12:16 pm : link
In comment 16121730 Blueworm said:
Quote:
Will be spotting the ball at the 25 automatically instead of a kickoff.


Really, what's the difference? kick into the end zone it comes out to the 25. Fair catch inside the 25 and it comes out to the 25. Might as well eliminate the kickoff altogether.
can't comment  
Thegratefulhead : 5/23/2023 12:21 pm : link
Would really need to know the amount and types of injuries sustained on kickoffs compared to other plays.
Meh  
BH28 : 5/23/2023 12:22 pm : link
Kickoffs have sucked for a while. At this point just get rid of them.

What will happen is special teams coordinators will now teach kickers to squib it so you can't fair catch it. So instead of high short kicks to pin inside the 15, you'll see squibs trying to create the same effect.
So they have basically taken the strategy/skill out of the kickoff  
Tom in NY : 5/23/2023 1:03 pm : link
Gano, among other kickers, had perfected the "mortar" kickoff that was high and dropped between the 5 and 1 yard line forcing the returner into a run back, with an effort by the kicking team to keep the returner inside the 20 yard line.

As mentioned earlier, if it doesn't completely eliminate the kickoff, it certainly is turning into more of a ceremonial activity.
A question no one has asked in this thread  
ThreePoints : 5/23/2023 1:10 pm : link
What's the actual, practical implication of this? What's the average length of a kick return in the NFL now?

If the ball is kicked and fielded at the 5 yard line, does the average return make it past the 25 yard line?

In other words, do we expect returns to actually fair catch fieldable balls, or not?
Why waste the time then  
Beer Man : 5/23/2023 1:22 pm : link
Just put the ball on the 25 yard line and forget about kicking.
what effect will this have on roster construction  
Sec_149 : 5/23/2023 1:29 pm : link
Besides being stupid, and making kickoff more meaningless. I wonder what effect it will have on roster construction.

With kickoffs being meaningless, do you instruct you punter to drop it out of bounds, and make those backend special team only players not worth a roster spot?
RE: what effect will this have on roster construction  
Giantsfan79 : 5/23/2023 1:41 pm : link
In comment 16121868 Sec_149 said:
Quote:
Besides being stupid, and making kickoff more meaningless. I wonder what effect it will have on roster construction.

With kickoffs being meaningless, do you instruct you punter to drop it out of bounds, and make those backend special team only players not worth a roster spot?


and will teams really need to pay special team coordinators anymore. seems like an assistant coach could cover extra point kicks and punts.
Third paragraph from the ESPN article  
Semipro Lineman : 5/23/2023 1:43 pm : link
Quote:
Concussion rates on kickoffs have surged over the past two seasons, to nearly twice as high as the average offensive or defensive play, despite a series of previous tweaks to its format that have resulted in touchbacks on roughly 60% of kickoffs on an annual basis. According to Rich McKay, chairman of the NFL's competition committee, most of that surge can be traced to an increase in returns caused by pop-up kicks.


I get why some people are frustrated but at the same time, as quoted in the article, pop-up kicks came with a price. And yes, we know the NFL cares more about money than about player safety etc. But eliminating pop-up kicks isn't going to dramatically change the game either
Link - ( New Window )
RE: This  
myquealer : 5/23/2023 1:54 pm : link
In comment 16121741 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
will really help the fan experience...

Your team scores.

Commercial.

Kickoff that is fair caught and comes out to 25 yard line.

Commercial.


As opposed to the far more common:

Your team scores.

Commercial.

Kickoff into the end zone and comes out to 25 yard line.

Commercial.

The game has been completely ruined by this one relatively inconsequential change! I'm never watching again! /s
This has been a college rule for a while  
ElitoCanton : 5/23/2023 1:57 pm : link
Not a big deal.
What?  
noro9 : 5/23/2023 2:03 pm : link
.
RE: RE: This  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/23/2023 2:04 pm : link
In comment 16121895 myquealer said:
Quote:
In comment 16121741 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


will really help the fan experience...

Your team scores.

Commercial.

Kickoff that is fair caught and comes out to 25 yard line.

Commercial.




As opposed to the far more common:

Your team scores.

Commercial.

Kickoff into the end zone and comes out to 25 yard line.

Commercial.

The game has been completely ruined by this one relatively inconsequential change! I'm never watching again! /s


I don't tend to watch other games anymore. I used to watch all the ones I could.
RE: This has been a college rule for a while  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/23/2023 2:06 pm : link
In comment 16121897 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
Not a big deal.


Between moving the kickoff forward and now this, yes it has an impact. They are legislation the elimination of the kickoff return.
RE: Making the game safer  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/23/2023 2:12 pm : link
In comment 16121715 mittenedman said:
Quote:
by not playing football.

Brilliant!


Don't call Goodell if you have rats in your barn.
RE: This  
Spiciest Memelord : 5/23/2023 2:14 pm : link
In comment 16121741 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
will really help the fan experience...

Your team scores.

Commercial.

Kickoff that is fair caught and comes out to 25 yard line.

Commercial.


They will certainly never implement a rule that decreases commercials.
RE: This has been a college rule for a while  
ThomasG : 5/23/2023 2:14 pm : link
In comment 16121897 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
Not a big deal.


Exactly. This is really about nothing.
Here's my question  
BlackLight : 5/23/2023 2:16 pm : link
If the returner signals fair catch and lets the ball hit the ground at the five yard line, is it a live ball? Does the return team need to field it to end the play? What if it rolls into the endzone?
RE: Here's my question  
Semipro Lineman : 5/23/2023 2:24 pm : link
In comment 16121927 BlackLight said:
Quote:
If the returner signals fair catch and lets the ball hit the ground at the five yard line, is it a live ball? Does the return team need to field it to end the play? What if it rolls into the endzone?


Non-ref opinion, the ball is live until the ref blows the whistle. We have all seen them blow the whistle for kick-offs into the end-zone that aren't caught but I have never seen a whistle blown for a fair catch that hits the ground.
How many times have you seen a fair catch inside the 25 yd line?  
Ivan15 : 5/23/2023 2:41 pm : link
Are we now going to see fair catches on the 5 yd line?

A short kickoff really encourages players to run the ball back because there is a good chance they can make it past the 25 yard line so this really becomes a non-rule, until some kickers can kick off with the trajectory of a punt high enough so it can’t be run back.

Punts are a different issue. This probably will encourage players to fair catch balls that were intended to die on the 5 yard line but I’m not sure this decreases the risk of injury. The greater risk may be when a player who drops a fair catch and the ensuing scramble.
One of the most exciting plays in sports to me.  
BigBlue in Keys : 5/23/2023 2:41 pm : link
If it's really that dangerous just stop playing the game.

Is there an incentive to running it out? Wouldn't you want your team to take it at the 25? Maybe a last ditch effort at the end of the game I could see it. I always looked at special teams as an equalizer between teams.
Make the returners wear these.  
BigBlue in Keys : 5/23/2023 2:46 pm : link


Hell make everyone wear them. I'd rather a goofy look than goofy rules.
RE: Here's my question  
Giantsfan79 : 5/23/2023 3:02 pm : link
In comment 16121927 BlackLight said:
Quote:
If the returner signals fair catch and lets the ball hit the ground at the five yard line, is it a live ball? Does the return team need to field it to end the play? What if it rolls into the endzone?


Yes it's a live ball but as long as no return team member touches it, the only thing the kicking team can do is down it, they can't pick it up and try to score unless someone touches it.
How will this impact onside kicks?  
Del Shofner : 5/23/2023 3:06 pm : link
(If at all.). Can the receiving team signal fair catch in an onside kick situation?
RE: How will this impact onside kicks?  
kinard : 5/23/2023 3:48 pm : link
In comment 16121971 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
(If at all.). Can the receiving team signal fair catch in an onside kick situation?


It sounds like the "fair catch" comes into play only if the kick is inside the 25 yard line which would mean that it won't impact onsides kicks at all.
I said it on the other tread earlier today, and thinking about it more  
rasbutant : 5/23/2023 4:09 pm : link
I think I have a better idea. It would accomplish what they are trying to eliminate with this rule, but add some intrigue and have the play based on some level of talent by the kicker.

A touchback the ball is placed at the 25 yard line (just like now)
A kick through the endzone the ball is placed at the 20 yard line. (returner will need to stop balls that are rolling to keep them to 25 instead of 20)
A kick through the uprights the other team starts at the 15 yard line

If this is the rule, the strategy is almost always going to be trying to get it through the uprights. The high kick to pin them would no longer be the best strategy. Plus, The play has meaning again, and it's based on the talent of the kicker.

Just thought of this too...If you really want to make it interesting, if the ball hits the uprights or crossbar, the ball is placed at the 5 yard line!?? Wonder what the probabilities are? Maybe that's going too far!
This is not a big deal, why make it one?  
5BowlsSoon : 5/23/2023 4:17 pm : link
How many guys who catch the ball in the playing field (not end zone) will call “fair catch?” I seriously doubt any will….but I hope every NY Giant will because we hardly ever get past the 20 yard line. So I will be happy with the 25 and not concern myself with the possibility of a long one.
RE: This is not a big deal, why make it one?  
Mad Mike : 5/23/2023 4:22 pm : link
In comment 16122047 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
How many guys who catch the ball in the playing field (not end zone) will call “fair catch?” I seriously doubt any will….

I think it will be fairly common for kicks inside the 5 to be fair caught.
Kickoffs are one of the most exciting plays...  
DefenseWins : 5/23/2023 4:27 pm : link
and they have taken it out of the game.

Reminds of how Bettman thought minimizing fighting would help with the popularity of the game.

Idiots
players want it too  
uther99 : 5/23/2023 4:39 pm : link
it was inevitable
RE: Long  
middleground : 5/23/2023 4:50 pm : link
In comment 16121738 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
story short, the NFL (and much of corporate America) is now run by retards.


I know it's been a few hours but I would like to +1 this thank you.
At this rate the position of Special Teams Coordinator  
PatersonPlank : 5/23/2023 4:51 pm : link
will be gone in 5 years.
RE: players want it too  
middleground : 5/23/2023 4:54 pm : link
In comment 16122068 uther99 said:
Quote:
it was inevitable


Which players? I'm guessing not the ones that are specifically employed to be on special teams.
RE: RE: Long  
uther99 : 5/23/2023 4:55 pm : link
In comment 16122072 middleground said:
Quote:
In comment 16121738 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


story short, the NFL (and much of corporate America) is now run by retards.



I know it's been a few hours but I would like to +1 this thank you.


The players sued the NFL over concussions and got a big settlement. I'm no lawyer, but NFL needs to make game safer to avoid more lawsuits.
We still see  
RicFlair : 5/23/2023 4:55 pm : link
players returning kicks out of the end zone quite frequently.

RE: RE: RE: Long  
middleground : 5/23/2023 4:57 pm : link
In comment 16122080 uther99 said:
Quote:
In comment 16122072 middleground said:


Quote:


In comment 16121738 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


story short, the NFL (and much of corporate America) is now run by retards.



I know it's been a few hours but I would like to +1 this thank you.



The players sued the NFL over concussions and got a big settlement. I'm no lawyer, but NFL needs to make game safer to avoid more lawsuits.


Then why flex TNF if player safety is of primary importance?
RE: RE: players want it too  
uther99 : 5/23/2023 4:58 pm : link
In comment 16122077 middleground said:
Quote:
In comment 16122068 uther99 said:


Quote:


it was inevitable



Which players? I'm guessing not the ones that are specifically employed to be on special teams.


[Url]https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-ex-players-agree-to-765m-settlement-in-concussions-suit-0ap1000000235494[/url]
RE: RE: RE: players want it too  
middleground : 5/23/2023 5:02 pm : link
In comment 16122084 uther99 said:
Quote:
In comment 16122077 middleground said:


Quote:


In comment 16122068 uther99 said:


Quote:


it was inevitable



Which players? I'm guessing not the ones that are specifically employed to be on special teams.



[Url]https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-ex-players-agree-to-765m-settlement-in-concussions-suit-0ap1000000235494[/url]


sorry but you're going to have a hard time convincing me that a lawsuit from 2013 is going to placate the worries of players who are currently being employed specifically for special teams roles.
Just need more kickers that can bury it in the end zone for  
steve in ky : 5/23/2023 6:09 pm : link
A traditional touchback
Put a massive DT at the 25  
Joe Beckwith : 5/23/2023 6:46 pm : link
and a KR at the 26.
If it’s at or beyond the 25, the DT waves his arm.
If it’s the 26 forward, the DT is a hulking bulk of blocker with a head of steam running interference.
A unique sight indeed!
RE: Put a massive DT at the 25  
steve in ky : 5/23/2023 7:11 pm : link
In comment 16122129 Joe Beckwith said:
Quote:
and a KR at the 26.
If it’s at or beyond the 25, the DT waves his arm.
If it’s the 26 forward, the DT is a hulking bulk of blocker with a head of steam running interference.
A unique sight indeed!


Once he waves his arms that massive DT would have to field the kick.
As with all of these types of minor changes  
Aaroninma : 5/23/2023 7:22 pm : link
None of us will care by week 3
Why bother with the kick off at all, just spot it on the 25 and be  
Jack Stroud : 5/23/2023 7:54 pm : link
done with it.
It's all about litigation  
Vanzetti : 5/24/2023 1:11 am : link
The NFL knows it will continue to face more and more lawsuits predicated on the idea that they have a dangerous work space for employees

So they continually have to "make a good faith effort" to show they are working to reduce possible injuries

Once the NCAA adopts a practice, it becomes the industry gold standard and the NFL has to follow suit

So blame the litigation culture that we have created. It's not the NFL and it's not Roger G. Goodell is actually doing the smart thing.

As far as players and coaches opposing it, that is meaningless. The players who someday will file suit will claim they were forced and coerced to engage in this violent practice if they wanted to keep their jobs.

Kickoff  
stretch234 : 5/24/2023 6:22 am : link
I don’t recall seeing this as being a mandatory fair catch scenario. Players are still going to run back kicks. There are still very good kick returners and nothing will change with them

It will be interesting to see what coaches will do. The Giants return game generally sucks

You still have plenty of kickers who can kick the ball out of the end zone

This is a reaction to the mortar kicks  
armstead98 : 5/24/2023 6:40 am : link
Kickers have gotten very good at these forcing teams to return the ball. The NFL wants kick returns to be optional for the receiving team, this allows that.

I don’t think it’s a huge deal, most kicks are touchbacks these days anyway.
They should make it the 20 yard line instead of 25  
steve in ky : 5/24/2023 6:54 am : link
Makes much more sense
RE: Kickoff  
RicFlair : 5/24/2023 7:12 am : link
In comment 16122306 stretch234 said:
Quote:
I don’t recall seeing this as being a mandatory fair catch scenario. Players are still going to run back kicks. There are still very good kick returners and nothing will change with them

It will be interesting to see what coaches will do. The Giants return game generally sucks

You still have plenty of kickers who can kick the ball out of the end zone



Exactly. The overreaction seems partially performative.
RE: RE: Kickoff  
HBart : 5/24/2023 7:22 am : link
In comment 16122313 RicFlair said:
Quote:
In comment 16122306 stretch234 said:


Quote:


I don’t recall seeing this as being a mandatory fair catch scenario. Players are still going to run back kicks. There are still very good kick returners and nothing will change with them

It will be interesting to see what coaches will do. The Giants return game generally sucks

You still have plenty of kickers who can kick the ball out of the end zone





Exactly. The overreaction seems partially performative.

While I'd prefer a return to good old fashioned kickoffs, this doesn't seem like a big deal. It realistically matters only on an occasional kick.

The numbers I saw were 36% of KOs returned last year estimated to drop to 31%.
If it's an overreaction  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/24/2023 7:32 am : link
then why did all of the special teams coaches in the NFL oppose it?
RE: If it's an overreaction  
ThomasG : 5/24/2023 8:38 am : link
In comment 16122319 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
then why did all of the special teams coaches in the NFL oppose it?


It's a piece of their pie being taken away. Rendering what they do a notch lower on the overall relevance scale in the game.
RE: If it's an overreaction  
HBart : 5/24/2023 10:29 am : link
In comment 16122319 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
then why did all of the special teams coaches in the NFL oppose it?

Probably because it reduces potential impact plays. Maybe also because it waters down the sport -- that's why I oppose it.

Given only ~1/3 of all kickoffs returned, of which a large % could have been touchbacks anyway, I can't envision much impact.

Don't get me wrong - I'm with you. I wish they'd stop F'ing with the game.

RE: RE: If it's an overreaction  
HBart : 5/24/2023 10:30 am : link
In comment 16122346 ThomasG said:
Quote:
In comment 16122319 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


then why did all of the special teams coaches in the NFL oppose it?



It's a piece of their pie being taken away. Rendering what they do a notch lower on the overall relevance scale in the game.

+1
RE: RE: RE: If it's an overreaction  
Big Blue '56 : 5/24/2023 11:12 am : link
In comment 16122407 HBart said:
Quote:
In comment 16122346 ThomasG said:


Quote:


In comment 16122319 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


then why did all of the special teams coaches in the NFL oppose it?



It's a piece of their pie being taken away. Rendering what they do a notch lower on the overall relevance scale in the game.


+1


+2
This is a putrid rule  
Matt M. : 5/24/2023 7:02 pm : link
It rewards a shitty return unit if they choose the fair catch and punishes a PK if he is skilled enough to put a kickoff high and inside the 10. I would hate this even more, but at this point just put the ball at the 25 and skip the kickoff.
RE: RE: Here's my question  
jomps : 5/24/2023 8:16 pm : link
In comment 16121967 Giantsfan79 said:
Quote:
In comment 16121927 BlackLight said:


Quote:


If the returner signals fair catch and lets the ball hit the ground at the five yard line, is it a live ball? Does the return team need to field it to end the play? What if it rolls into the endzone?



Yes it's a live ball but as long as no return team member touches it, the only thing the kicking team can do is down it, they can't pick it up and try to score unless someone touches it.


Actually, what you described is the rule for punts.

On kickoffs it's always a live ball, it just needs to travel 10+ yards, and you don't need the returning team to touch it before you can recover it or score.
RE: This is a putrid rule  
Del Shofner : 5/24/2023 10:05 pm : link
In comment 16122709 Matt M. said:
Quote:
It rewards a shitty return unit if they choose the fair catch and punishes a PK if he is skilled enough to put a kickoff high and inside the 10. I would hate this even more, but at this point just put the ball at the 25 and skip the kickoff.


I agree. Who I think this rule change prejudices most is teams with good specials who go down in a game and could come back by good kickoffs and kickoff coverage - but this rule takes that opportunity away.
Rich  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/26/2023 8:11 am : link
Eisen and I are on the same wavelength here. His monologue on this subject is my POV.
Rich Eisen: NFL’s New Fair Catch Rule Has Essentially Destroyed the Kickoff | The Rich Eisen Show - ( New Window )
RE: Rich  
DefenseWins : 5/30/2023 7:49 pm : link
In comment 16123459 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Eisen and I are on the same wavelength here. His monologue on this subject is my POV. Rich Eisen: NFL’s New Fair Catch Rule Has Essentially Destroyed the Kickoff | The Rich Eisen Show - ( New Window )


I saw Rich Eisen's take on this. He is also correct.

Ruining the game slowly with all of the changes. Individually, not single change will push fans away. It is something that will happen over time.

At some point, fans will not want to go to games. The best parts of the game will be removed including hard hits. Yes, that is already happening. Roughness calls on extremely hard hits are already being called. Now, removing kickoffs and the excitement that comes with that play.
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