for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Home Title Theft

GmeninPSL : 5/23/2023 12:05 pm
Has anyone subscribed to a "Title Lock" company? I'm beginning to see more and more ads regarding how this is becoming a serious crime where it would not be so hard for a thief/scammer to basically take over the title of your house and you would never know about it. They than sell the home (which sounds strange as it appears like the house would not shown and there wouldn't even be a realtor involved) or if not sold the scammer would then cash out on the equity of the home. So is this FEAR mongering or is this real? Just curious to see if anyone has taken steps to prevent this horrible crime?
No, sounds like bullshit  
allstarjim : 5/23/2023 12:29 pm : link
There is a legal concept of adverse possession in which if you can show you've maintained and improved a property and paid its taxes over a period of time (in Florida it's 7 years), you can take Adverse Possession of the property, which after a period of 7 years of un-interrupted occupancy of the property, the person seeking adverse possession may petition the court for title to be granted to them, but the burden is on them to show they have met all legal requirements.

Otherwise, I don't see how someone can steal a title to a home. It's filed in county records, conveyance is notarized, a consideration must be transferred to the previous owner...this doesn't seem like it's logistically possible.
Now  
allstarjim : 5/23/2023 12:32 pm : link
to follow up, fraud does exist, of course, so a criminal could do attempt to fraudulently file deed transfer paperwork and so forth with forged documents, but this would be fraud, and would probably be very easily found out and prosecuted.
Sorry to say - that this does exist  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/23/2023 12:41 pm : link
there are crooks that file fraudulent deeds. I can't tell you exactly how prevalent it is, but I can tell you that it does occur.

Mostly I've seen it in distressed neighborhoods, but it is all too easy to implement, and very, very hard to undo once it happens.
These companies show  
GmeninPSL : 5/23/2023 12:47 pm : link
how someone can do a quit claim deed over the internet and stamp it with a fake notary stamp. Basically no one checks, they typically just push the paperwork through. I'm just wondering with the evolution of AI, will this crime become the next big thing.
RE: Now  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/23/2023 12:47 pm : link
In comment 16121797 allstarjim said:
Quote:
to follow up, fraud does exist, of course, so a criminal could do attempt to fraudulently file deed transfer paperwork and so forth with forged documents, but this would be fraud, and would probably be very easily found out and prosecuted.


you would think so - but many time this happens and it takes many years before it is discovered. Most people don't check their title periodically. And even when it is discovered the proofs are more difficult than you would think it ought to be, making it very hard to undo.

There are two cases I know of prosecutions on this, and the fraudster in both cases had done several of them. They took place over a 20 year period and even then they had difficulty unraveling which of the filings were fraudulent and which weren't.
RE: These companies show  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/23/2023 12:48 pm : link
In comment 16121816 GmeninPSL said:
Quote:
how someone can do a quit claim deed over the internet and stamp it with a fake notary stamp. Basically no one checks, they typically just push the paperwork through. I'm just wondering with the evolution of AI, will this crime become the next big thing.


yes -- this is exactly how they do it.
RE: RE: Now  
SJGiant : 5/23/2023 1:00 pm : link
In comment 16121817 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 16121797 allstarjim said:


Quote:


to follow up, fraud does exist, of course, so a criminal could do attempt to fraudulently file deed transfer paperwork and so forth with forged documents, but this would be fraud, and would probably be very easily found out and prosecuted.



you would think so - but many time this happens and it takes many years before it is discovered. Most people don't check their title periodically. And even when it is discovered the proofs are more difficult than you would think it ought to be, making it very hard to undo.

There are two cases I know of prosecutions on this, and the fraudster in both cases had done several of them. They took place over a 20 year period and even then they had difficulty unraveling which of the filings were fraudulent and which weren't.


Can you please inform me how does one check their title? Thank you
It is amazing...  
BC Eagles94 : 5/23/2023 1:10 pm : link
what fear can do to people. Let me guess, people worried about this...are also the same people that hid in their house for several months during COVID and worse masks for 1-2 years?
I would think it varies by jurisdiction.  
MOOPS : 5/23/2023 1:10 pm : link
In my county I just go to the Assessors web page, find my lot and check the ownership and title. It's real easy in my case. Takes about 30 seconds. By habit I do it weekly.
This can, and does, occassionally happen  
TEPLimey : 5/23/2023 1:13 pm : link
I litigated a case where a fraudster posed as the homeowner and, marketed the property, and sold it to a third-party using a fake ID at closing.

It took more than a modicum of effort, but ultimately the Court determined that there was no transfer of the property to the alleged purchasers. At the end of the day, the actual owner kept the property, the defrauded purchasers were reimbursed for the full purchase price by their title insurance, and at least some of the fraudsters were caught and ultimately incarcerated.

As far as someone filing a purely "fake" deed and then later transferring it to a third-party, I would imagine that this is fairly uncommon and ultimately the outcome would be the same as described above.

Also, I would imagine that title companies are going to be pretty leery of an unfinanced buyer who quickly looks to sell the property for a similar purchase price. The chain of events would look suspicious on a title report.
To expand on my previous post...  
TEPLimey : 5/23/2023 1:18 pm : link
I am not advocating for purchasing "title lock" insurance. I was just explaining that these things do occassionally happen based on personal experience.
RE: It is amazing...  
Gatorade Dunk : 5/23/2023 1:29 pm : link
In comment 16121842 BC Eagles94 said:
Quote:
what fear can do to people. Let me guess, people worried about this...are also the same people that hid in their house for several months during COVID and worse masks for 1-2 years?

People worried about this are respectful of those around them? What a travesty!
My county has a fraud registration, you create an account  
Mellowmood92 : 5/23/2023 1:38 pm : link
and they'll send you and alert if a new document is filed on your property. Takes about a minute, you just need your block / lot information.
I think this is a worry  
Vanzetti : 5/23/2023 2:29 pm : link
For houses that have been left vacant or maybe where old people live. Or where the municipality has some abnormal property laws.

If you have lived in your house for a reasonably long time, paid taxes and utility bills, I would not worry about it.

However, it is worth checking the deed and title to make sure there are no errors. For example, a misspelled last name or title that was not updated properly

To me, I would only consider a company like this if I had elderly parents living in NY and I lived in another part of the country and I did not want them to fall prey to some fraud. But for a normal family, it seems completely unnecessary.
RE: This can, and does, occassionally happen  
allstarjim : 5/23/2023 3:46 pm : link
In comment 16121850 TEPLimey said:
Quote:
I litigated a case where a fraudster posed as the homeowner and, marketed the property, and sold it to a third-party using a fake ID at closing.

It took more than a modicum of effort, but ultimately the Court determined that there was no transfer of the property to the alleged purchasers. At the end of the day, the actual owner kept the property, the defrauded purchasers were reimbursed for the full purchase price by their title insurance, and at least some of the fraudsters were caught and ultimately incarcerated.

As far as someone filing a purely "fake" deed and then later transferring it to a third-party, I would imagine that this is fairly uncommon and ultimately the outcome would be the same as described above.

Also, I would imagine that title companies are going to be pretty leery of an unfinanced buyer who quickly looks to sell the property for a similar purchase price. The chain of events would look suspicious on a title report.


Yeah, I was going to add, this is what title insurance is for.
Back to the Corner