NFT: NFT: Mets @ Cubs: Game 3 - Carrasco vs. Hendricks - 7:40 pm

Mets Activate Tomás Nido, DFA Gary Sánchez - By Michael Mayer | Updated: May 25, 2023

Mets reinstate Tomás Nido from IL, designate Gary Sánchez for assignment: The Gary Sánchez experiment was brief. | By Chris McShane @chrismcshane | May 25, 2023 |6:12pm EDT

How an impending Mets roster move will spoil any goodwill with the front office | By Tim Boyle | May 24, 2023

Quote:

GENY Mets Report @genymets “We're happy with the way he's progressing down there and continue down that path with him. They all have a chance to work their way up. I like the idea of having Nimmo hit behind him.” #LGM ~ Buck Showalter on continuing to bat Francisco Álvarez ninth.

GENY Mets Report @genymets - 7:06 PM · May 25, 2023 · 301 Views - ( New Window )

vientos' 93.0 mph exit velo on 9 bbe is higher than everyone in today's starting lineup. Last year in 24 bbe it was 93.3 and highest on the team.

just an absolute joke that they are still treating vogelbach like he's some kind of must start. the guy is an average DH at best with extreme limitations.

they went nowhere with vogelbach as the big addition last year.

they have done nothing with him this year through 50 games.

he can get off on watching strike 3's from the bench just the same as the batters box.

baty and alvarez were both less productive at aaa over shorter periods of time than vientos. they got better as they got more playing time despite buck's same preference toward veterans. the definition of insanity is doing the same stupid shit over and over again (like rooting for the mets).

"but eric, they are professionals, maybe they see something in his swing beyond the numbers"

if they do and they are right it will be the first time in 2 years. whatever they saw in ruf, naquin, and vogelbach was wrong and whatever they didn't see in JDD was even more wrong.

I'm sick of Buck. Did you see how visibly agitated Buck was at the question in the tweet I posted above regarding the question about batting Alvy 9th? He composed himself to give a milquetoast answer after holding his tongue for a few seconds.

In comment 16123295 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

I'm sick of Buck. Did you see how visibly agitated Buck was at the question in the tweet I posted above regarding the question about batting Alvy 9th? He composed himself to give a milquetoast answer after holding his tongue for a few seconds.

i care less about lineup as long as they are playing the best guys. it's stupid but at least he's learning and getting a chance to play, and at least they arent rewarding guys who are a waste of time.

vogelbach's hit the ball pretty hard as a met - exit velocity isn't the issue. they dont go over the fence. 8 homers 38 rbis in 100 games or so including part of what was his career year generally says it all. he has had his chances. time to give someone else a fair shake.

Mets at Cubs - May 25, 2023 - 7:40 pm EDT start - TV Broadcast: Mets' feed on SNY w/Gary and Keith

Mets at Cubs - May 25, 2023 - 7:40 pm EDT start - TV Broadcast: Cubs' feed

MLB.com - Gameday Box Score for Mets at Cubs - May 25, 2023

Just mindboggling how he’s on this roster, still. Hope both Eppler and Buck are gone this off-season.

In comment 16123322 Sammo85 said:

Quote:

Just mindboggling how he’s on this roster, still. Hope both Eppler and Buck are gone this off-season.

Caught looking AGAIN at strike 3...

has to be the easiest spot to fill. Just let Vientos/Alvarez/Narvaez split the role.

simple moves

just hit a monster blast off Joey Lucchesi


Link - ( New Window )

In comment 16123326 spike said:

Quote:

has to be the easiest spot to fill. Just let Vientos/Alvarez/Narvaez split the role.

It’s not exactly rocket science. Awful short and long term managing here.

he will still pick up 1 or 2 starts per week and can get into late game when you need a baserunner.

they should probably play baty in lf and vientos at 3b once a week or so just to keep them sharp at either spot. alonso should dh once or twice a week with vientos at 1st too.

fangraphs write-up of vientos defensively at 3rd was probably the most eye opening thing i've read about his defense ever.

give vientos a month now because once they promote mauricio then the lineup is going to get even harder.

Jose Reyes
@lamelaza_7
·
18m
I’m not sure if Vogey understands this concept but…

You have to SWING THE BAT to hit the ball…🤦🏿‍♂️

How do you take strike three with a runner in scoring position?

Also, how 'bout we move Baty up in the line-up and (god forbid) drop Lindor down? He looks lost right now.

Please play Vientos...

Don't know what to say anymore. I know he has good numbers against Hendricks (5 for 11 I think), but how much longer will it take this management group to give Vientos some regular playing time?

In comment 16123337 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

Jose Reyes @lamelaza_7 · 18m I’m not sure if Vogey understands this concept but… You have to SWING THE BAT to hit the ball…🤦🏿‍♂️

lol. Real talk man.

In comment 16123333 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 16123326 spike said: Quote: has to be the easiest spot to fill. Just let Vientos/Alvarez/Narvaez split the role. It’s not exactly rocket science. Awful short and long term managing here.

It’s not “managing”. It’s the coach making decisions out of spite. Which is worse. Even if your eye-test is failing you, all the stats and conventional wisdom tell Buck what should be done. He’s an arrogant Putz.

And there goes Vogelsnacks again - looking at strike three. Keep padding those stats!

And I’m tired of the excuse of “they are great clubhouse guys”. Escobar, Vogelsucks, Canha, Pham…they’ve all been here a year or less. Give me a break. The Mets could cut all of them tomorrow and I doubt it would have any affect on the clubhouse. The guys that matter (Nimmo, McNeil, Lindor, Alonso) all love the kids. Let it go Buck, let it go.

Cant wait til Quintana returns

cannot pinch run, cannot play defense. Cannot hit either

for the kids (Alvarez, Vientos, Baty, and Mauricio) to join the core (Alonso, Lindor, McNeil, and Nimmo) and for this lineup to evolve.

That should have always been the intention this year. Dont know why we are pussy footing around.

In comment 16123346 spike said:

Quote:

cannot pinch run, cannot play defense. Cannot hit either

Mets are facing quite a roster crunch soon.

1 - Gary was talking about how Narvaez should be back in about two weeks. The Mets will have to either send down Alvy--risking a rebellion---or trade/DFA Nidon't.

2 - Quintana will start once up in what seems to be July. What do the Mets do with Carrasco at that point? Trade him or put him in the bullpen? He's crap when it comes to pitching the 1st inning. Not sure how'd he'd do in long relief.

What happens to Vogey, Pham, Escobar, or Canha after that with Mauricio looming.

with Quintana, Carrasco, Senga, Megill, Verlander, Scherzer

In comment 16123355 spike said:

Quote:

with Quintana, Carrasco, Senga, Megill, Verlander, Scherzer

Megill will probably hit a pitching limit some time in August. Let's just hope Quintana makes it back and looks good when he does. The rest will work itself out.

In comment 16123350 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

for the kids (Alvarez, Vientos, Baty, and Mauricio) to join the core (Alonso, Lindor, McNeil, and Nimmo) and for this lineup to evolve. That should have always been the intention this year. Dont know why we are pussy footing around.

This.....such a no brainer..

Nido has to be DFA'd when Narvaez is back.

Mauricio needs to come up eventually.

You then have Canha, Pham, Vogelbach, Ecobar, and Narvaez to figure out. One has to go, the rest can form your bench. Of those 5, Escobar (because he backs up the IF) and Narvaez are locks.

So you gotta get rid of one of Canha, Vogelbach, or Pham.

Dont care who. Just do it.

north of the Mendoza line - regardless of his exit velocity.

In comment 16123364 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Nido has to be DFA'd when Narvaez is back. Mauricio needs to come up eventually. You then have Canha, Pham, Vogelbach, Ecobar, and Narvaez to figure out. One has to go, the rest can form your bench. Of those 5, Escobar (because he backs up the IF) and Narvaez are locks. So you gotta get rid of one of Canha, Vogelbach, or Pham. Dont care who. Just do it.

It's gotta be down to either Vogey or Pham to hit the road.

In comment 16123365 Ira said:

Quote:

north of the Mendoza line - regardless of his exit velocity.

1104 OPS in AAA all year not good enough for you?

Or are you taking his 4 game ML sample?

In comment 16123368 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

In comment 16123364 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Nido has to be DFA'd when Narvaez is back. Mauricio needs to come up eventually. You then have Canha, Pham, Vogelbach, Ecobar, and Narvaez to figure out. One has to go, the rest can form your bench. Of those 5, Escobar (because he backs up the IF) and Narvaez are locks. So you gotta get rid of one of Canha, Vogelbach, or Pham. Dont care who. Just do it. It's gotta be down to either Vogey or Pham to hit the road.

Agreed.

If I had to pick one of Pham or Vogey to get rid of, it'd be interesting. I'm not sure what I'd do honestly. I think Vogey would get more back in a trade between the two, but I could be wrong.

7th! Never thought Id be saying that tonight. lol

He's retired the last 7 batters and is still rolling. I'd leave hi to at least start the 7th inning/ Here's his line so far tonight:

-88 P (59 S)
-6 IP
-4 H
-1 R (1 ER)
-1 HR
-2 BB
-4 K
6.93 ERA

Extend him yesterday please Uncle Steve.

In comment 16123375 Optimus-NY said:

Quote:

If I had to pick one of Pham or Vogey to get rid of, it'd be interesting. I'm not sure what I'd do honestly. I think Vogey would get more back in a trade between the two, but I could be wrong.

Someone will get injured somewhere

What a GREAT start!

-100 P (66 S)
-6 and 2/3 IP
-5 H
-1 R (1 ER)
-1 HR
-2 H
-4 K
6.75 ERA

No much. Not Holderman certainly. But some.

Pham has no trade value at 6 million, with awful defense and meh offense. Not to mention that he is psycho

Nice to have a laugher:


.
.
.

.
.
.
Gameday Wrap - MLB.com - May 25, 2023 - Mets @ Cubs
.
.
.
Game Story from MLB.com - Mets at Cubs - May 25, 2023
.
.
.

Acting up woke up the sleeping giants?

In comment 16123473 Shecky said:

Quote:

Acting up woke up the sleeping giants?

I don't know. Vogelbach still didn't do much.

at least to me. I was looking at his game log. He has not struck out since May 16. 5 starts, 18 ABs. He has 3 HR since his last K. Very surprising to me as I view him as a high K guy. He has really exceeded my wildest expectations this early in his MLB career. Dude is a star

feast your eyes stro.

Lindor gets his bat heated up soon.. definitely been a struggle for consistency. Let

In comment 16123534 KDavies said:

Quote:

at least to me. I was looking at his game log. He has not struck out since May 16. 5 starts, 18 ABs. He has 3 HR since his last K. Very surprising to me as I view him as a high K guy. He has really exceeded my wildest expectations this early in his MLB career. Dude is a star

this is an amateur opinion but limiting k's and getting better pitch selection seem to me to be the most intuitive skills a player can learn as they adjust to the big leagues and they can only be learned with reps.

definitely where some guys sink/swim but a big reason why the mauricio hate over the last few years re swing decisions always seemed a little over the top. if you can make contact with a better than average batting average while hitting for power and not a ton of k's you can still be a very good player even without walks.

this is where i think dom got caught - he never found an approach where he could hit for power and maintain his batting average. it was one or the other. this year his k rate is way down (15%) and he's hitting .282 with a .364 obp but he's hitting for no power. just 1 homer. in partial time in 19-20 he did both but for whatever reason he's never been able to get back to that. his exit velocities have always been mediocre, especially for a power hitter, and this year they are way under average. i think his raw power just wasnt powerful enough taking the contact approach that served him best.

50 games, .316 BA, 10 HR, 21 doubles, .993 OPS. Never came close to that again. He was their best hitter. Imagine Dom close to that in this lineup, splitting 1B/DH with Alonso. He is one of my biggest hitter what-ifs for the Mets. Such a tease

Isn't Dom basically lefty Vogelbach at this point?

In comment 16123573 GF1080 said:

Quote:

Isn't Dom basically lefty Vogelbach at this point?

Vogelbach is lefty Vogelbach

Meant same as Vogelbach at this point. Didn't mean lefty.

In comment 16123580 GF1080 said:

Quote:

Meant same as Vogelbach at this point. Didn't mean lefty.

Then yes, basically, except Dom is a better hitter and runs a bit faster. I mean, I think Yadier Molina and Miguel Cabrera runs faster than Vogelbach.

Drawn 21 walks in 174 at bats. Not much else.
I had hopes for him once, but he's basically found a role of sorts on a bottom feeder team.

In comment 16123392 Vanzetti said:

Quote:

No much. Not Holderman certainly. But some. Pham has no trade value at 6 million, with awful defense and meh offense. Not to mention that he is psycho

Vogelbach has absolutely no trade value. Hes an aging, overweight lefty bat who watches and takes a ton of pitches. He can't run, can't play any defensive position and looks like he can't hit for consistent power anymore.

He's a AAA filler player. His presence on this roster is laughable and the attempts by management to continue to keep giving him chances is borderline offensive to anyone with eyes and a brain.

The trade was bad at the time, and is bad. Eppler stinks as a GM (Angels are still trying to recover from his utter failures), and Buck is a stubborn senile person who needs to be ushered out door in offseason with Eppler.

As a result, there's a roster crunch. The reality is this: there's lots of dead weight on this team. Vogelbach is one such player amongst a few. The others include Nido and Pham in one boat with Vogelbach, and Canha and Escobar in another. The second group still offer some value off of the bench, but the former are really next to useless now. Pham can at least play all 3 outfield positions, but Vogelbach can't play any defense whatsoever. He's an albatross if he doesn't hit.

The trade deadline is July 31st this season and with the way the Mets' front office is taking a drawn out approach to this team now, it would make the most sense that any moves that would occur would take place closer to that date than now. Quintana will be back in about a month and change. What will happen to Carrasco and Megill once he's back? Mauricio is guy who's a Triple A star now. Will they bring him up by then or will they continue to favor washed up veterans who probably won't be on this team next year anyway?

Before making any decisions on trades.

They currently are tied for 5/6 Wild Card. So I think they believe they have time.

Also, believe it or not, Vogey's OPS+ is 99, which means he is only a tick below average as a DH. The expansion of the DH to NL has really watered down the position.

By way of comparison, Lindor and Baty are 95 and 96, meaning Vogey is a better hitter for his position than they are for their positions. Of course, Vogey is a liability on the bases, which is unaccounted for in OPS+.

But Mets are driven by analytics now, so Vogey is not viewed as a liability with a 99 OPS+. They are getting average production from a guy making very little money

Then throw in that Eppler and Buck were behind the acquisition and are thus going to give Vogey every opportunity. So I don't see Vogey getting displaced any time soon unless he craters.

In comment 16123739 Vanzetti said:

Quote:

Before making any decisions on trades. They currently are tied for 5/6 Wild Card. So I think they believe they have time. Also, believe it or not, Vogey's OPS+ is 99, which means he is only a tick below average as a DH. The expansion of the DH to NL has really watered down the position. By way of comparison, Lindor and Baty are 95 and 96, meaning Vogey is a better hitter for his position than they are for their positions. Of course, Vogey is a liability on the bases, which is unaccounted for in OPS+. But Mets are driven by analytics now, so Vogey is not viewed as a liability with a 99 OPS+. They are getting average production from a guy making very little money Then throw in that Eppler and Buck were behind the acquisition and are thus going to give Vogey every opportunity. So I don't see Vogey getting displaced any time soon unless he craters.

Well that probably explains why they are desperately and barely a .500 baseball team.

is its a stat even some quants admit is subjectively scaled and not a good representative fit for all players, especially ones who are unevenly distributed with how they are used and their at-bats are disparately applied in different ballparks.

somehow Vogelbach gets more ABs.

In comment 16123892 Metnut said:

Quote:

somehow Vogelbach gets more ABs.

Buck is a god damn joke.

In comment 16123893 GF1080 said:

Quote:

In comment 16123892 Metnut said: Quote: somehow Vogelbach gets more ABs. Buck is a god damn joke.

No, he’s just as asshole.