to have us thinking it is either Shiv as CEO with a Mattson buyout, or Kendall with Mattson blocked.
Therefore, it is neither.
They make constant comparisons of Mencken to Hitler. Many industrialists backed Hitler's rise to power thinking he could be controlled. That plan backfired. This has been on my mind, so I have to think Mencken backstabs everyone. Either he allows Mattson to purchase, but his own choice of CEO (not Shiv), or he blocks the sale, while also blocking Kendall taking CEO. Does Connor know dirt on Kendall? Would be funny seeing Connor throw the family under the bus in order to get his cushy diplomat post.
Is related to Tom's surname: Wambsganss. It's the same last name as a famous baseball player, Bill Wambsganss... known for having executed the only un assisted triple play in the World Series.....people knowing this history are wondering if Tom also pulls off a triple play and ends up at the helm of Waystar after out maneuvering the three siblings.
Everything to me is pointing to Kendal winning. He’s come up big or at least not fallen flat in every big moment of late (the smart home launch, bailing out Roman on the fly at the Funeral Eulogy, winning some of the old guard over). He has also become the “killer” which his father criticized him for lacking that critical trait (not sure if he has maybe gone too far but the hostility with his ex wife this season seems like it’s headed for disaster).
Meanwhile the other siblings have failed due to not being able to develop past their personal deficiencies. Roman a bit unhinged which has always blown up in his face all last week. Shiv’s trust issues always breaking down her relationships as she always has to play both sides trying to have a favorable out which always backfires. Colin just being a bit of an eccentric that has always just been a little out of touch With reality.
Will be fun to see how it all plays out, but with only one episode to go my money is this is set up for Ken to execute a takeover. Will be interesting to see what he does with his siblings and what comes of Tom and Greg.
I don’t see how Kendall gets the top job given the fact that so many of his “opponents” know about his role in the death of the waiter a few seasons ago.
Hadn’t heard of the Tom theory mentioned above with the last name and the unassisted triple play. That could not be a coincidence and that makes the most sense to me. Plus, I can see Tom having a spin off show that would work.
Kendall. This is Kendall's moment and Greg will play a role here. Tom will blow up Shiv for sure and Roman is heading towards a breakdown but do not discount Geri here.. They showed her briefly recently looking after Roman as he walked away, there are feelings still there...
Has Kendall, Roman, and Shiv thrown off the top of the Waystar building. Last shot is of their blood spattered remains in the street below, while Logan, Tom, and Greg look down with satisfaction.
The show has always been about Kendall growth from an ambitious ex-junkee to the personable killer Logan always wanted. Last week Kendall knew for sure his wife was taking his kids, and that his siblings are out for themselves. That’s when the lights went on, and he said fuck everyone.
was the black sheep of the family, but I don't see the show as being his story. He was always the guy angling for a hostile takeover, and thus had a bit bigger role than the other siblings.
If it was anyone's show, it was Logan's. The story of a guy whose self centered greed couldn't allow him to properly groom and anoint a successor, leading to a succession battle which Logan fought all the way til his dying breath.
that’s something that happened as a result of failed attempts at trying to do it the right way. I agree with those above who think it’s his show and I’d like to see him come out on top.
Like I really would've liked to see Shiv confront Madsen. Shiv having second thoughts felt kind of forced. If anything, it should've been Roman. If there was going to be an objector, it should've been Roman, not Shiv, especially after what Madsen did to her.
But all in all, it was okay. I got the sense that they may be setting up for a movie. Like I was half-expecting Kendall to jump in the water or kill himself, but the fact that he remained alive leads me to believe that it may not be entirely over?
RE: Finale was alright. Kind of felt rushed at times.
Like I really would've liked to see Shiv confront Madsen. Shiv having second thoughts felt kind of forced. If anything, it should've been Roman. If there was going to be an objector, it should've been Roman, not Shiv, especially after what Madsen did to her.
But all in all, it was okay. I got the sense that they may be setting up for a movie. Like I was half-expecting Kendall to jump in the water or kill himself, but the fact that he remained alive leads me to believe that it may not be entirely over?
For Shiv to change her mind on a dime like that was disappointing. It was nice seeing the three kids aligned even if it was so brief. I knew Kendall killing that guy would resurface. Wanted Kendall to win, don’t like Tom winning. A complete empty suit.
None of the siblings had a moral right to the throne, so seeing them all lose was the correct outcome.
I also really loved the fifteen minute stretch when the sibs all seemed to be getting along.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
Shiv isn't Team Tom. Him winding up as CEO, when their marriage is the only reason he's even allowed in the building, isn't a win for her. Even she knows it - on the last look, the best she can do is lay her land limply over his in the backseat of the car.
RE: RE: I guess I'm the only one who really liked it.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
But she doesn’t love him. She never did. She said it a lot. As someone else said, she couldn’t even bring herself to hold Tom’s hand at the end. She looked miserable.
I was happy to see the kids all get along and make a choice to keep the company. Instead Shiv suddenly changes her mind and fucks over her brothers.
I honestly need to rewatch this entire series over again. I really misread the Shiv character. I just don’t understand her motivation. In season 1 she has a success political campaign manager career and she seems to be really good at it. She is then drag into the business world by her dad, and she just forgets about the career she had? I just don’t understand her motivation. Like why is being CEO so important for her?
Tom as CEO makes sense, Mattson wants a cucked CEO who he can control. Tom is perfect. He isn't a visionary, strategic thinker, etc. He wants to be CEO.
Kendall getting unhinged was well done.
Shiv is the wife to the CEO of a subsidiary company in a terrible marriage. But she is probably best positioned of the three. They're all miserable billionaires.
I was happy to see the kids all get along and make a choice to keep the company. Instead Shiv suddenly changes her mind and fucks over her brothers.
I honestly need to rewatch this entire series over again. I really misread the Shiv character. I just don’t understand her motivation. In season 1 she has a success political campaign manager career and she seems to be really good at it. She is then drag into the business world by her dad, and she just forgets about the career she had? I just don’t understand her motivation. Like why is being CEO so important for her?
All the siblings were mindfucked by their father. They were all destined to spend their lives chasing his approval (save for Connor). Once Shiv got a taste of what it felt like to be seen by him, she spent the rest of the series jonesing for it, making bad decision after bad decision.
I'll grant that her final turn where she flips her vote at the last possible second seemed unmotivated, but the subsequent shouting match proved she was right.
Not sure if it’s egos or what. You would think the kids lost the company. They freakin sold it and made billions. They all have enough money for there great great grandchildren.
Not sure if it’s egos or what. You would think the kids lost the company. They freakin sold it and made billions. They all have enough money for there great great grandchildren.
For all intents and purposes, they've had money their entire lives. They wanted the thing they never had.
Seemed like the aha moment for Shiv was when Kendall was sitting in Logan’s chair for the first time and he was promising Stewy the Chairman title as well as favours for others. She was reminded that Ken is not his father, not a serious businessperson with the chops to succeed and given his train wreck past was likely to send the company, it’s reputation and her net worth plunging
I didn’t think Ken would jump in the water. The theme of water as redemption/resetting has been constant throughout the show. His threat to Shiv was all manipulative to try and get her to vote to block the deal and she saw right through him.
Ultimately none of the kids deserved to succeed Logan as they all lacked their father’s ability to read people correctly and ruthlessly act accordingly
Seemed obvious from the beginning that none of the kids were up to the task. None of them were the right person. Logan knew it. That truth played out. If not them then who. Tom made as much sense as anyone. Maybe more with his connection to Shiv. Played out just as it should have. True to the characters.
none are qualified and it wasn't really just to be CEO (in Logan's mind), it was to basically be him. Mattson was probably the closest to Logan (even though obviously Mattson was not how he planned it).
One thing the limo scene made me think of was maybe deep down Shiv orchestrated this and it wasn't a "she changed her mind and flipped in the moment" scenario. Not sure if that's true or not, but sure seemed like that scene (even with no words) hinted at that.
The conference room scene was cartoonishly bad.
I don't think the election really matters at this point. Mencken kind of alluded to the fact he wasn't going to kill the deal anyway when he basically told Kendall "I'll see what I can do". Or at least there was some doubt if he would.
I don't think it was ever intended to be realistic, though.
I was right in that none of the three kids would get it. Wrong in thinking Mencken would be a part in it. Should have seen it coming. The show has repeatedly built something up, only to abandon it with a token throwaway line. They throw out a lot of dead end plot lines. Sloppy? Or trying too hard to be cunning by having a lot of chaff to keep the missile from honing in?
At the top of the unrealistic heap is Tom getting the nod as CEO. I was so wrong about them going in such a farcical direction. Ultimately, though, under the definition of farce genre, a thumbnail of this show is all that is needed.
Kendall not being true blood and that Shiv was more the real heir? Maybe I misunderstood that comment..
He said something about Kendall's children. his daughter was adopted and his son was born via sperm donor.
not sure how that makes Shiv the heir, but more to the point I think it highlights how they consider the succession as a birth-rite like a monarchy not something based on competence that you earn.
This show started to bore me last 2 seasons, but I loved the ending.
I love the fact that ultimately these are just worthless rich kids. Even Roman says they are jack shit in the end. Completely accurate about generational wealth. Hits home, because in my fancy pants North Shore LI neighborhood, there are 2 types of people. Those that become successful by personal achievement (doctors, lawyers, etc). And then there those that inherited their wealth, who think they are the shit but are actually just shit. When I am forced to interact with them (like at my kids little league game), you can tell they just fucking dumb shits who are clueless in life. In the beginning I wondered how someone so stupid can afford to live in this zipcode, and then you find out they inherited the family wealth/business.
Even Tom being CEO rings so true. I'm a doctor at a prestigious medical center. The department chairs are usually not the best doctors, but the ones that are most connected and suck the best dick. Succession rings so true.
Very appropriate. Like Kendall said in the funeral episode, "Life is contingent. People who love you also fuck you." To go from the good times in their mom's kitchen to the embarrassment in the boardroom was quick but fitting for these three that were constantly flipping on each other. None of the siblings could live with the idea of one of the others "winning."
And I certainly wouldn't say Shiv ends up on top just because she's still with Tom. The power dynamic of that relationship, the one thing she liked about it, has completely flipped. She's in a lifeless relationship with a puppet CEO. Pantheon level show
who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
Is correct, but Tom deserves it even less. Tom winning ruins the show for me.
Doesn't matter who deserves it, that's really the point. It's about who was shameless enough enough to throw away his pride in the name of achieving power and status. That's Tom in a nutshell. Mattson literally tells him he wants to fuck his wife and he just shakes it off to get the job. Completely neutered. I think Tom in charge at the end makes a ton of sense
who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
Agree with this 100%
I did not believe Shiv’s character there. It’s not that I didn’t believe she would feel the way she felt, but the writing gave no evidence of that change of heart. No reason. She despises Mattson. She despises her husband. She resents but does love her brother.
She’s probably right that he wouldn’t do a great job. But the story this season has been about Kendall stepping up over and over again when it mattered. He’s surprised people around him (to the upside) multiple times when the chips were down, in particular post Logan’s death.
Had Shiv kept it from him spitefully from the start, or planned to stab him, it would have made sense. For her to just wilt in the room - there was no reason given for it.
that she got up from the room at least unsure of her vote, but then Kendall's actions convinced her 100% that he was not right for the job? He kind of proved her point in that room.
Shiv's face changed when Kendall put his feet up in Logan's office and started offering things to Stewie with the vote up in the air.
1. Shiv saw Kendall claiming victory too soon and not ensuring those on his side were happy.
2. Shiv saw Kendall could never be Logan when he was sitting at the desk.
Looked to me that it went from unsure after that meeting in Logan's office to absolutely not based on Kendall's actions when in the conference room.
I don’t buy that at all. Feet up on the desk did him in? She went from fucking Mattson and Tom over to taking the company away from her family just because of that? And he did secure the votes, she experienced it live in person. I’ll admit that it’s par for the course of this show where people’s minds change in a dime, and I think that’s why I’ve grown not to enjoy watching it.
This wasn't a show about a family that rallies together. It was a show about family disunity. Roman couldn't fathom that he blew it, and recoiled into self pity. Shiv couldn't stand that she got played by Mattson, and rather than support her brother, sabotaged him to prove she still could impact things. They were a tear down family. That was their humor. That was their actions. Yeah, there was an element of not believing Kendall could do it, but it was more Shiv believing she could do it better, and denying him was better than letting him have it.
This wasn't a show about a family that rallies together. It was a show about family disunity. Roman couldn't fathom that he blew it, and recoiled into self pity. Shiv couldn't stand that she got played by Mattson, and rather than support her brother, sabotaged him to prove she still could impact things. They were a tear down family. That was their humor. That was their actions. Yeah, there was an element of not believing Kendall could do it, but it was more Shiv believing she could do it better, and denying him was better than letting him have it.
The kids constantly got their faces blown off when prematurely assuming victory, as Kendall did here.
I think Shiv did it for multiple reasons: 1. Couldn't bare seeing Kendall win. 2. Thought Kendall as CEO put significant risk to her billions. 3. Thought being wife to the CEO gave her a leg up on the siblings, as well as gave her child a shot at a not awful family.
The camera pivoting to Shiv's face in the meeting with the three siblings and Stewie were - in my view - certainly meant to show Shiv starting to change her mind. I thought the writers were showing Shiv realizing Kendall was never going to fill Logan's chair.
I don't think it was ever intended to be realistic, though.
I was right in that none of the three kids would get it. Wrong in thinking Mencken would be a part in it. Should have seen it coming. The show has repeatedly built something up, only to abandon it with a token throwaway line. They throw out a lot of dead end plot lines. Sloppy? Or trying too hard to be cunning by having a lot of chaff to keep the missile from honing in?
At the top of the unrealistic heap is Tom getting the nod as CEO. I was so wrong about them going in such a farcical direction. Ultimately, though, under the definition of farce genre, a thumbnail of this show is all that is needed.
it was a fitting end. I was hoping that it'd end on a happier note following the bonding they just had, but all 3 of them can't control their jealously. Roman and Shiv both hesitated when the day came because they both thought it should be them. Kendall seemed like the best choice of the 3 by far and I doubt the company is in better hand with a fraud like Matson and Tom. The "if I can't have it, no one can" result does seem to fit the characters though. I can't believe that weasel, Greg, ended up fine after betraying Tom. He should have gutted him right there.
This wasn't a show about a family that rallies together. It was a show about family disunity. Roman couldn't fathom that he blew it, and recoiled into self pity. Shiv couldn't stand that she got played by Mattson, and rather than support her brother, sabotaged him to prove she still could impact things. They were a tear down family. That was their humor. That was their actions. Yeah, there was an element of not believing Kendall could do it, but it was more Shiv believing she could do it better, and denying him was better than letting him have it.
Bingo. It was just pure pettiness, spite, and ego. She truly couldn’t stand for it to be one of her siblings and not her. Roman was nearly as bad because he spent the entire ep whining about how it should’ve/could’ve/would’ve been him, yet he didn’t even want the damn job at the end. He was quite happy to get the hell out of there. But at least he didn’t make up some nonsense in order to not vote for Ken. When Shiv brought up the guy’s death, that was a tell. She knew that information the entire time, yet presented it at the last moment as a reason Ken couldn’t be CEO. Nonsense. Plus, her actions the entire season were duplicitous. She could’ve been entirely above board with her support of Matsson. As for Ken, his actions in the ep were reprehensible, including trying to injure Roman twice. I was rooting for him, but he was always destined to be Charlie getting the ball yanked away as he got close.
As I said numerous times, the idiots probably could’ve done a good job if they subjugated their egos and worked together. But that was too much for them. Ken getting screwed and Tom becoming CEO was a rather obvious ending.
This wasn't a show about a family that rallies together. It was a show about family disunity. Roman couldn't fathom that he blew it, and recoiled into self pity. Shiv couldn't stand that she got played by Mattson, and rather than support her brother, sabotaged him to prove she still could impact things. They were a tear down family. That was their humor. That was their actions. Yeah, there was an element of not believing Kendall could do it, but it was more Shiv believing she could do it better, and denying him was better than letting him have it.
Bingo. It was just pure pettiness, spite, and ego. She truly couldn’t stand for it to be one of her siblings and not her. Roman was nearly as bad because he spent the entire ep whining about how it should’ve/could’ve/would’ve been him, yet he didn’t even want the damn job at the end. He was quite happy to get the hell out of there. But at least he didn’t make up some nonsense in order to not vote for Ken. When Shiv brought up the guy’s death, that was a tell. She knew that information the entire time, yet presented it at the last moment as a reason Ken couldn’t be CEO. Nonsense. Plus, her actions the entire season were duplicitous. She could’ve been entirely above board with her support of Matsson. As for Ken, his actions in the ep were reprehensible, including trying to injure Roman twice. I was rooting for him, but he was always destined to be Charlie getting the ball yanked away as he got close.
As I said numerous times, the idiots probably could’ve done a good job if they subjugated their egos and worked together. But that was too much for them. Ken getting screwed and Tom becoming CEO was a rather obvious ending.
that's how i see it. shiv took her ball and went home.
i appreciate the result of the ending with all 3 basically left with a void they need to fill. even though there's little hope they fill it well there was probably even less hope they'd fill it well continuing to fight for logan's approval from the grave.
the way they got there was pretty stupid though. shiv getting shiv'd by matsson was obvious from 10000 miles away but the way it played out was just stupid. for all intents and purposes he was inches from costing himself the deal over something he didnt need to do before the vote - so the entire flip flop flip back just felt stupid.
...and an interesting flip from two weeks ago with Shiv's argument with Tom. She accused him of marrying her to get close to power and money. Now she votes for the deal and stays with Tom for the same reason.
it was a fitting end. I was hoping that it'd end on a happier note following the bonding they just had, but all 3 of them can't control their jealously. Roman and Shiv both hesitated when the day came because they both thought it should be them. Kendall seemed like the best choice of the 3 by far and I doubt the company is in better hand with a fraud like Matson and Tom. The "if I can't have it, no one can" result does seem to fit the characters though. I can't believe that weasel, Greg, ended up fine after betraying Tom. He should have gutted him right there.
I think because he knew Greg was just like him. He knew he would of done that exact same thing.
Seemed like the aha moment for Shiv was when Kendall was sitting in Logan’s chair for the first time and he was promising Stewy the Chairman title as well as favours for others. She was reminded that Ken is not his father, not a serious businessperson with the chops to succeed and given his train wreck past was likely to send the company, it’s reputation and her net worth plunging
This is a really good point that I didn't catch when I was watching.
That Greg squealing would actually screw Tom? Mattson says to keep it quiet, Tom tells Greg, Greg tells Shiv and she goes nuts. Mattson isn't upset with Tom? Or i guess not enough to take away CEO from him?
That Greg squealing would actually screw Tom? Mattson says to keep it quiet, Tom tells Greg, Greg tells Shiv and she goes nuts. Mattson isn't upset with Tom? Or i guess not enough to take away CEO from him?
Why would he be upset with Tom? Greg used a translation app to translate Matsson and Oskar's conversation to learn the plan.
Once Greg told Tom what he learned, Tom called Matsson and said "big problem" or whatever he said to let Matsson know word was out and the Roy's would be scrambling to get votes now that they possibly lured Shiv back and the vote on the go-jo sale would be close.
Was Greg aware it was going to be Tom when he called Kendall? I don't think he was.
Maybe I'm mistaken.
They only found it was Tom when they were at the house and Shiv could read it on his face.
And Tom told her, when he said "Shiv, it's me"
Shiv SE that in motion- with her pushing ideas on Mattson, that article that made it seem like Mattson was her puppet and then her answer about Tom.to Mattson- he knew she couldn't be truly trusted and knew that Tom would be his perfect puppet.
the scene in the limo at the end I kind of wondered if Shiv pulled a con on all of them and orchestrated the whole thing.
Maybe left the conference room to milk the moment, cherish the power she always wanted and dramatically and ruthlessly put the nail in Kendall's coffin.
But I kind of think I'm giving her character (and the writers) too much credit. Her reaction to Tom telling her it was him definitely didn't seem like she was the puppet master unless that act was part of the ruse.
it would be a better "Shiv story", if that was the case and it was her doing. If in fact she felt like Tom as US CEO and Matsson (who wants to bang her) as global CEO put her in some better position than she would ever get from Kendall, but again, I don't know it's fair to say she manipulated Matsson into naming Tom CEO (she was lukewarm on it when Lukas point blank asked her) about it and I'm not sure what Tom as US CEO does for her. Other it's not Kendall. Maybe that's enough to give her some satisfaction.
if Shiv planned it we would have been shown that and if we were I wouldn’t have as big of an issue with it as I do. Generally I don’t like when vital decisions are made uncharacteristically, or against the shows rules, and out of thin air to create fake drama.
but maybe that’s the point. These kids couldn’t shoot straight and Tom, who had to always maneuver for his seat at the table, was just able to maneuver (with some luck) the only seat left against a bunch of incompetent dummies. Shiv got the worst sentence because the entire dynamic of her relationship with Tom basically flipped. In the end, she was so desperate to stay close to power she took his hand.
The entire show is the kids couldn't shoot straight
That's why Logan never retired and he sold to Mattson. The kids always talked a tough game behind the scenes, but every single time it was time for them to step-up or take the lead, they choked it away or acted irrationally.
To me there was always an underling of, "I'd rather watch the whole thing burn down than see one of my siblings take over" and that's pretty much what happened.
Their other downfall was power divided. Logan and Mattson had absolute power, the kids could never realize their power was divided by 3 and they needed to work toghether but their egos prevented that. You either have absolute power (Logan/Mattson) or complete shill (Greg/Tom) to 'win'. The Roy kids had that taste of power but in the end didn't or couldn't realize there would need to be a compromise to 'win'.
I do think their is an irony that Ken finally seemed to get it and step-up but all his previous missteps were too much baggage.
Scene - Ken had an opportunity to step up and passionately explain why the GoJo offer should be rejected. Logan would have eloquently logically and forcefully argued his case. Instead Ken wasted the opportunity by saying limply “you’ve all read the deck, let’s just skip to the vote”. He could have swayed Shiv and possibly others who were not entirely sold on GoJo with an epic presentation. I think people would have overlooked his temper and shady history if he was smart inspirational and competent. But he did not have his father’s charisma work ethic or smarts.The contrast between the video of Logan charming the dinner guests with his riff on the Presidents and Ken’s speech to kickoff the board meeting could not have been more stark. He thought because he’s the eldest boy he can take the throne without putting in the effort.
Forgave Greg other than Greg not knowing Tom would be CEO. Although I was dying laughing when Mattsen called Greg Judas.
I think because he felt like he could control him and it would give Tom some measure of power in a role he will realistically have none as a figurehead/puppet.
Putting the sticker on Greg's forehead was funny, kind of symbolic too, IMO, sort of a "this is the only remnant from Logan's world I am keeping" moment.
Forgave Greg other than Greg not knowing Tom would be CEO. Although I was dying laughing when Mattsen called Greg Judas.
I think Tom respected Greg for it. When he told Shiv after she found out he was going to be CEO, “if the roles were reversed, you’d do the same.”
Greg made the right move. He had no idea Tom was getting CEO, he just wanted to stay on. Tom hinted at a massive pay cut. So, Greg uses his information to his advantage.
I think Tom respected it.
RE: RE: I am still struggling to understand why Tom
Forgave Greg other than Greg not knowing Tom would be CEO. Although I was dying laughing when Mattsen called Greg Judas.
I think Tom respected Greg for it. When he told Shiv after she found out he was going to be CEO, “if the roles were reversed, you’d do the same.”
Greg made the right move. He had no idea Tom was getting CEO, he just wanted to stay on. Tom hinted at a massive pay cut. So, Greg uses his information to his advantage.
I think Tom respected it.
The move was similar to Tom’s move at end of season 3. I think Tom also trusts Greg and that was why he said “I just had enough capital” to save you. I think if you look at the show it is really the only relationship that truly survives. Greg is going to still be his lackey. But with that said, it was a bold move against Mattsen and Mattsen knows it—not sure how it could be forgiven so easily.
In stories (whether it be books, tv, movies) there really is little ambiguity when you go after the king. Either you kill the king or the king kills you. Greg went after Mattsen and is still around breathing which is just an unconventional outcome.
I often think, why do people make decisions, based on what. Thinking through the Roy sibs, although well educated they were always trapped by their father's shadow and subsequent jockeying and jealousy played out in that conf room. I think Shiv had a ton of stuff running through her head and had she had to vote first? Might have voted yes. But when the hammer stroke fell she voted as they are all wont to do, even Rome barely said yes.
Scene - Ken had an opportunity to step up and passionately explain why the GoJo offer should be rejected. Logan would have eloquently logically and forcefully argued his case. Instead Ken wasted the opportunity by saying limply “you’ve all read the deck, let’s just skip to the vote”. He could have swayed Shiv and possibly others who were not entirely sold on GoJo with an epic presentation. I think people would have overlooked his temper and shady history if he was smart inspirational and competent. But he did not have his father’s charisma work ethic or smarts.The contrast between the video of Logan charming the dinner guests with his riff on the Presidents and Ken’s speech to kickoff the board meeting could not have been more stark. He thought because he’s the eldest boy he can take the throne without putting in the effort.
This is a great point, that I really didn’t think about. I think he got overly confident because he knew he had the numbers to push through. This season has shown that Kendall can give a great speech and get people behind him, but his own ego got in the best of him as the most crucial time possible.
In comment 16124812 JOrthman said:They only found it was Tom when they were at the house and Shiv could read it on his face./////////
And Tom told her, when he said "Shiv, it's me"
Shiv wasn't reading it, yet, still stunned by Mattson's switch, she was groping--as she thought Tom was too: I saw those moments as taut and dramatic, when Tom seemed to be on the same page with Shiv in not knowing who Mattson was going to annoint--when he had known for the past xx hours--as the ultimate stab in the back and smug, controlled schadenfreud and vengeance for all the months of her smug keeping Tom at her family name fingertips: "I have it and you don't, and, yes, it's me." The tables turned once and for all from Tom as hanger on, dependent on Shiv for access, but now he rules the roost.
I got a huge kick out of the scene when Tom goes at Greg
Forgave Greg other than Greg not knowing Tom would be CEO. Although I was dying laughing when Mattsen called Greg Judas.
I think Tom respected Greg for it. When he told Shiv after she found out he was going to be CEO, “if the roles were reversed, you’d do the same.”
Greg made the right move. He had no idea Tom was getting CEO, he just wanted to stay on. Tom hinted at a massive pay cut. So, Greg uses his information to his advantage.
I think Tom respected it.
Exactly, he knew he would have done the same thing and kind of saw Greg as a version of him.
In comment 16124812 JOrthman said:They only found it was Tom when they were at the house and Shiv could read it on his face./////////
And Tom told her, when he said "Shiv, it's me"
Shiv wasn't reading it, yet, still stunned by Mattson's switch, she was groping--as she thought Tom was too: I saw those moments as taut and dramatic, when Tom seemed to be on the same page with Shiv in not knowing who Mattson was going to annoint--when he had known for the past xx hours--as the ultimate stab in the back and smug, controlled schadenfreud and vengeance for all the months of her smug keeping Tom at her family name fingertips: "I have it and you don't, and, yes, it's me." The tables turned once and for all from Tom as hanger on, dependent on Shiv for access, but now he rules the roost.
I disagree. I felt like she sensed it, based on the look on her face. His own demeanor in the scene gave it away and then he said it, which confirmed what she was thinking.
to me that "Tom would have done the same thing" which is a shitty thing and could have cost Tom his future, so he "respects" the backstabbery and deceit by Greg so he gives him a job?
lol. Ok.
The "you would have done the same thing" to Shiv makes sense and those two keeping a relationship also makes sense, since besides everything else in their history that is who they always were in their relationship (selfish, power hungry, etc.) and now they will share a child.
But IMO Tom keeps Greg for Tom (power) not because he would have done the same thing or because he "respects" it.
who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
100% agree. You could make the argument that Tom deserved it because he was the most ruthless (next to Logan, of course). The kids had no chance, they were so damaged from growing up under Logan’s thumb that it would have been a miracle that any of them were remotely normal. Tom doesn’t have that excuse. He chose this lifestyle and was willing to sacrifice any dignity to get the ring, even as short-lived as that would be (the Swede would almost certainly can him the minute the Waystar sale is approved).
In comment 16124812 JOrthman said:They only found it was Tom when they were at the house and Shiv could read it on his face./////////
And Tom told her, when he said "Shiv, it's me"
Shiv wasn't reading it, yet, still stunned by Mattson's switch, she was groping--as she thought Tom was too: I saw those moments as taut and dramatic, when Tom seemed to be on the same page with Shiv in not knowing who Mattson was going to annoint--when he had known for the past xx hours--as the ultimate stab in the back and smug, controlled schadenfreud and vengeance for all the months of her smug keeping Tom at her family name fingertips: "I have it and you don't, and, yes, it's me." The tables turned once and for all from Tom as hanger on, dependent on Shiv for access, but now he rules the roost.
I disagree. I felt like she sensed it, based on the look on her face. His own demeanor in the scene gave it away and then he said it, which confirmed what she was thinking.
I felt like she sensed something was up. She could tell Tom had some powerful intel and she knew she had to draw it out.
who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
100% agree. You could make the argument that Tom deserved it because he was the most ruthless (next to Logan, of course). The kids had no chance, they were so damaged from growing up under Logan’s thumb that it would have been a miracle that any of them were remotely normal. Tom doesn’t have that excuse. He chose this lifestyle and was willing to sacrifice any dignity to get the ring, even as short-lived as that would be (the Swede would almost certainly can him the minute the Waystar sale is approved).
I also think Tom who is experienced AF also got himself a golden parachute ($100M+). As much of a sycophant that he is he is experienced and knows what comes with CEO perks. The motherlode of stocks and a buyout if he gets fired. I mean how long do CEOs last anyway?
tom may be ceo but matsson could change his mind and shit can him any time. tom has fewer people of influence he can trust than before. greg is going to be his mini pain sponge and will probably be an asset for tom. his betrayal of matsson should have worked and sort of proved he has learned under tom's mentorship, he didnt know he was betraying tom at the time.
the big logic gap for me is still the actual board vote. i think some of the above points about kendall patting himself on the back too much are probably right. she and roman couldnt stomach giving him a W and were elated to give him the L. kendall played the best hand and did "deserve" it more than shiv who got herself screwed betting on the wrong horse, roman who went through an emotional breakdown all season, and matsson who was consistently sloppier and more erratic trying to close the deal. kendall was the alternative that got the majority of the board votes not counting his sibs because he actually did present an arguably better alternative. roman and shiv proved positive that they were bullshit with their own misplays and i think it's possible they were most afraid of kendall continuing to get positive recognition. the eulogies were basically a metaphor for the whole season, roman fucked it, kendall stepped up unexpectedly, shiv desperately tried to do the same but failed.
the way the vote played out still feels like a logic gap though because frank went first with everyone thinking kendall had the votes, why in that scenario would he vote for matsson? for self preservation wouldnt he have flipped his vote?
to me that "Tom would have done the same thing" which is a shitty thing and could have cost Tom his future, so he "respects" the backstabbery and deceit by Greg so he gives him a job?
lol. Ok.
The "you would have done the same thing" to Shiv makes sense and those two keeping a relationship also makes sense, since besides everything else in their history that is who they always were in their relationship (selfish, power hungry, etc.) and now they will share a child.
But IMO Tom keeps Greg for Tom (power) not because he would have done the same thing or because he "respects" it.
but, just my opinion.
He didn't know it was Tom at the time. Tom never told him, so he didn't know who he was backstabbing. He only knew he was trying to secure his future. All Tom told him was that he thought he'd be "Ok" with the GoJo winning.
he would survive the gojo sale and he would, he had aligned himself with Matsson. Greg knew this.
When Greg found out about the plan to not name Shiv USA CEO, he brought that information to Kendall understanding it would blow up the deal, and Greg would have a place in Waystar/Royco leadership leaving Tom hung out to dry.
Greg didn't do it to hang Tom out to dry. He did it to help himself, but the results would be the same. Kendall made clear he had no use for Tom so the results of Greg "trading" the information to Kendall would have been the end of Tom (in any capacity with Waystar/Royco).
RE: tom kept greg around bc he's still useful to him
tom may be ceo but matsson could change his mind and shit can him any time. tom has fewer people of influence he can trust than before. greg is going to be his mini pain sponge and will probably be an asset for tom. his betrayal of matsson should have worked and sort of proved he has learned under tom's mentorship, he didnt know he was betraying tom at the time.
the big logic gap for me is still the actual board vote. i think some of the above points about kendall patting himself on the back too much are probably right. she and roman couldnt stomach giving him a W and were elated to give him the L. kendall played the best hand and did "deserve" it more than shiv who got herself screwed betting on the wrong horse, roman who went through an emotional breakdown all season, and matsson who was consistently sloppier and more erratic trying to close the deal. kendall was the alternative that got the majority of the board votes not counting his sibs because he actually did present an arguably better alternative. roman and shiv proved positive that they were bullshit with their own misplays and i think it's possible they were most afraid of kendall continuing to get positive recognition. the eulogies were basically a metaphor for the whole season, roman fucked it, kendall stepped up unexpectedly, shiv desperately tried to do the same but failed.
the way the vote played out still feels like a logic gap though because frank went first with everyone thinking kendall had the votes, why in that scenario would he vote for matsson? for self preservation wouldnt he have flipped his vote?
I don't think it was quite obvious they had the votes. After the call from Tom, Mattson goes on red alert and we don't know who Gojo called. Shiv was supposed to lean on Sandy and Sandy and we never saw what transpired there either, but obviously not good enough since they voted, 'yes'.
I dont really think Frank was threatened by Kendall so he wanted to sell, knowing worst case, he still had a seat at the table if the Roys won.
he would survive the gojo sale and he would, he had aligned himself with Matsson. Greg knew this.
When Greg found out about the plan to not name Shiv USA CEO, he brought that information to Kendall understanding it would blow up the deal, and Greg would have a place in Waystar/Royco leadership leaving Tom hung out to dry.
Greg didn't do it to hang Tom out to dry. He did it to help himself, but the results would be the same. Kendall made clear he had no use for Tom so the results of Greg "trading" the information to Kendall would have been the end of Tom (in any capacity with Waystar/Royco).
yes but tom presented a not-compelling case for the new world post-gojo to greg with the threat of the massive paycut. whether he was fucking with him or just trying to throw him off the scent, tom played the key role in panicking greg into thinking the sibs were his better play.
he would survive the gojo sale and he would, he had aligned himself with Matsson. Greg knew this.
When Greg found out about the plan to not name Shiv USA CEO, he brought that information to Kendall understanding it would blow up the deal, and Greg would have a place in Waystar/Royco leadership leaving Tom hung out to dry.
Greg didn't do it to hang Tom out to dry. He did it to help himself, but the results would be the same. Kendall made clear he had no use for Tom so the results of Greg "trading" the information to Kendall would have been the end of Tom (in any capacity with Waystar/Royco).
yes but tom presented a not-compelling case for the new world post-gojo to greg with the threat of the massive paycut. whether he was fucking with him or just trying to throw him off the scent, tom played the key role in panicking greg into thinking the sibs were his better play.
Did Tom say Greg got paid 200k? Did I hear that scene right and he would probably get bumped down to 30-40k if Matsson kept him? lol.
RE: RE: tom kept greg around bc he's still useful to him
I dont really think Frank was threatened by Kendall so he wanted to sell, knowing worst case, he still had a seat at the table if the Roys won.
Agree here, even w/o a seat at the table if Kendall, et al. won. Frank wanted his payday after all was said and done, quite enough of the Roys for one lifetime. He was pretty candid when asked at several junctures his opinion of Logan.
RE: RE: tom kept greg around bc he's still useful to him
I dont really think Frank was threatened by Kendall so he wanted to sell, knowing worst case, he still had a seat at the table if the Roys won.
i think frank had a seat at the table if kendall won but only if he was on their team. that's why i think it's strange he voted the way he did because unlike karl he had never really expressed any desperation for the golden parachute. and then at the end both of them talked about possibly wanting to stay on which we know wont happen. frank's only chance to remain in the mix was voting for kendall so he self sabotaged, but i guess that's his sort of his MO back to when logan fired him the first time.
he would survive the gojo sale and he would, he had aligned himself with Matsson. Greg knew this.
When Greg found out about the plan to not name Shiv USA CEO, he brought that information to Kendall understanding it would blow up the deal, and Greg would have a place in Waystar/Royco leadership leaving Tom hung out to dry.
Greg didn't do it to hang Tom out to dry. He did it to help himself, but the results would be the same. Kendall made clear he had no use for Tom so the results of Greg "trading" the information to Kendall would have been the end of Tom (in any capacity with Waystar/Royco).
yes but tom presented a not-compelling case for the new world post-gojo to greg with the threat of the massive paycut. whether he was fucking with him or just trying to throw him off the scent, tom played the key role in panicking greg into thinking the sibs were his better play.
Did Tom say Greg got paid 200k? Did I hear that scene right and he would probably get bumped down to 30-40k if Matsson kept him? lol.
i think you heard right, tom's greatest joy was fucking with greg and in that instance it almost cost him everything.
i think everyone gets focused so much on the 3 kids being unlikeable screw ups that they look past the scale of everyone else being unlikeable screw ups sometimes at an even grander scale.
The show presented him as a buffoon character, while at the same time showed that he knew how to protect himself. When they sent him on the scapegoat mission of destroying documents, which was early in the show, Greg adroitly protected himself by saving some of the documents. He's inexperienced, but he's not dumb.
who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
100% agree. You could make the argument that Tom deserved it because he was the most ruthless (next to Logan, of course). The kids had no chance, they were so damaged from growing up under Logan’s thumb that it would have been a miracle that any of them were remotely normal. Tom doesn’t have that excuse. He chose this lifestyle and was willing to sacrifice any dignity to get the ring, even as short-lived as that would be (the Swede would almost certainly can him the minute the Waystar sale is approved).
I also think Tom who is experienced AF also got himself a golden parachute ($100M+). As much of a sycophant that he is he is experienced and knows what comes with CEO perks. The motherlode of stocks and a buyout if he gets fired. I mean how long do CEOs last anyway?
Sure, but money isn’t the issue, power is. His wife has all the money in the world, now granted, it’s not HIS money, but I think the power, and the proximity to it, drove both of them.
Shiv has her husband as CEO, and more importantly, the real power player who wants to fuck her. Meanwhile, she’s gotten rid of her annoying brothers. Win, win.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not sure why people are hung up on
who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
100% agree. You could make the argument that Tom deserved it because he was the most ruthless (next to Logan, of course). The kids had no chance, they were so damaged from growing up under Logan’s thumb that it would have been a miracle that any of them were remotely normal. Tom doesn’t have that excuse. He chose this lifestyle and was willing to sacrifice any dignity to get the ring, even as short-lived as that would be (the Swede would almost certainly can him the minute the Waystar sale is approved).
I also think Tom who is experienced AF also got himself a golden parachute ($100M+). As much of a sycophant that he is he is experienced and knows what comes with CEO perks. The motherlode of stocks and a buyout if he gets fired. I mean how long do CEOs last anyway?
Sure, but money isn’t the issue, power is. His wife has all the money in the world, now granted, it’s not HIS money, but I think the power, and the proximity to it, drove both of them.
Shiv has her husband as CEO, and more importantly, the real power player who wants to fuck her. Meanwhile, she’s gotten rid of her annoying brothers. Win, win.
Not saying he didn't crave that (power) but he wasn't in that weight class of wealth imo. Tom may have had tens of millions of dollars, but he was living the billionaire lifestyle due to Shiv. I think money was huge for Tom, more than power.
I still remember his conversation with Greg about being rich, "Its better than being a superhero, you can do whatever you want"
little mentioned is Romulus, alone, at a (cool) bar, and a martini
allowing himself a brief parting of the lips, as I read it, a smug and self-satisfied smirk: his two older siblings, each of whom has tried at various times to screw and backstab him, have gone down in flames. As the one who probably wanted Royco power to wield the least, he can let the C-suite pass him by without too much angst. He's a billionaire who can play his personal games--Gerri might even retire to join him ): (:
Scene - Ken had an opportunity to step up and passionately explain why the GoJo offer should be rejected. Logan would have eloquently logically and forcefully argued his case. Instead Ken wasted the opportunity by saying limply “you’ve all read the deck, let’s just skip to the vote”. He could have swayed Shiv and possibly others who were not entirely sold on GoJo with an epic presentation. I think people would have overlooked his temper and shady history if he was smart inspirational and competent. But he did not have his father’s charisma work ethic or smarts.The contrast between the video of Logan charming the dinner guests with his riff on the Presidents and Ken’s speech to kickoff the board meeting could not have been more stark. He thought because he’s the eldest boy he can take the throne without putting in the effort.
I think you’re misreading people’s motivations, in particular, Shiv. She says during the conference room scene, ”Really I love you, but I cannot fucking stomach you.” There was no speech or business plan that was going to sway her. She just didn’t want it to be him if it wasn’t going to be her.
As for your point about Logan, the one thing that separated him from his kids was that he was calculating about business. He was never going to let emotions get in the way of the numbers. His kids were utter failures at that. He also had a personality that engendered fear and loyalty. Matsson is somewhat similar in that way. During this entire show, the only person who stayed loyal to one of the kids was Stewy to Ken. Willa was loyal to Con up to a point and Gerri was loyal to Roman until he fired her in a fit of pique.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is Shiv fashioned herself
as a feminist (whether rightly or wrongly) and I'm sure it ate at her that all the men were set to be winning.
If you had told me 5 years ago: "You're going to be really caught up in a fictionalized story of billionaire nepo-babies where the *losers* walk away with billions," I would not have believed you.
Therefore, it is neither.
They make constant comparisons of Mencken to Hitler. Many industrialists backed Hitler's rise to power thinking he could be controlled. That plan backfired. This has been on my mind, so I have to think Mencken backstabs everyone. Either he allows Mattson to purchase, but his own choice of CEO (not Shiv), or he blocks the sale, while also blocking Kendall taking CEO. Does Connor know dirt on Kendall? Would be funny seeing Connor throw the family under the bus in order to get his cushy diplomat post.
Tom and Greg are out the door.
Meanwhile the other siblings have failed due to not being able to develop past their personal deficiencies. Roman a bit unhinged which has always blown up in his face all last week. Shiv’s trust issues always breaking down her relationships as she always has to play both sides trying to have a favorable out which always backfires. Colin just being a bit of an eccentric that has always just been a little out of touch With reality.
Will be fun to see how it all plays out, but with only one episode to go my money is this is set up for Ken to execute a takeover. Will be interesting to see what he does with his siblings and what comes of Tom and Greg.
Hadn’t heard of the Tom theory mentioned above with the last name and the unassisted triple play. That could not be a coincidence and that makes the most sense to me. Plus, I can see Tom having a spin off show that would work.
If it was anyone's show, it was Logan's. The story of a guy whose self centered greed couldn't allow him to properly groom and anoint a successor, leading to a succession battle which Logan fought all the way til his dying breath.
But all in all, it was okay. I got the sense that they may be setting up for a movie. Like I was half-expecting Kendall to jump in the water or kill himself, but the fact that he remained alive leads me to believe that it may not be entirely over?
But all in all, it was okay. I got the sense that they may be setting up for a movie. Like I was half-expecting Kendall to jump in the water or kill himself, but the fact that he remained alive leads me to believe that it may not be entirely over?
I was sure he was going to kill himself.
Shiv stayed true to her name. Romulus killed his brother.
Logan originally stayed on because Kendall wasn't willing to do what it took to succeed.
That's the universe that was laid out for us.
Kendall finally got to that point, and the winner is a lap dog? That defies the rules of the universe.
I don't mind the Roy's eating each other up, but that's a hollow ending.
Agreed of all the people he is the most despicable and most whore like..
I also really loved the fifteen minute stretch when the sibs all seemed to be getting along.
I also really loved the fifteen minute stretch when the sibs all seemed to be getting along.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
Quote:
None of the siblings had a moral right to the throne, so seeing them all lose was the correct outcome.
I also really loved the fifteen minute stretch when the sibs all seemed to be getting along.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
Shiv isn't Team Tom. Him winding up as CEO, when their marriage is the only reason he's even allowed in the building, isn't a win for her. Even she knows it - on the last look, the best she can do is lay her land limply over his in the backseat of the car.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
But she doesn’t love him. She never did. She said it a lot. As someone else said, she couldn’t even bring herself to hold Tom’s hand at the end. She looked miserable.
Tom putting the sticker on Greg’s forehead.
I honestly need to rewatch this entire series over again. I really misread the Shiv character. I just don’t understand her motivation. In season 1 she has a success political campaign manager career and she seems to be really good at it. She is then drag into the business world by her dad, and she just forgets about the career she had? I just don’t understand her motivation. Like why is being CEO so important for her?
Tom as CEO makes sense, Mattson wants a cucked CEO who he can control. Tom is perfect. He isn't a visionary, strategic thinker, etc. He wants to be CEO.
Kendall getting unhinged was well done.
Shiv is the wife to the CEO of a subsidiary company in a terrible marriage. But she is probably best positioned of the three. They're all miserable billionaires.
I honestly need to rewatch this entire series over again. I really misread the Shiv character. I just don’t understand her motivation. In season 1 she has a success political campaign manager career and she seems to be really good at it. She is then drag into the business world by her dad, and she just forgets about the career she had? I just don’t understand her motivation. Like why is being CEO so important for her?
All the siblings were mindfucked by their father. They were all destined to spend their lives chasing his approval (save for Connor). Once Shiv got a taste of what it felt like to be seen by him, she spent the rest of the series jonesing for it, making bad decision after bad decision.
I'll grant that her final turn where she flips her vote at the last possible second seemed unmotivated, but the subsequent shouting match proved she was right.
For all intents and purposes, they've had money their entire lives. They wanted the thing they never had.
I didn’t think Ken would jump in the water. The theme of water as redemption/resetting has been constant throughout the show. His threat to Shiv was all manipulative to try and get her to vote to block the deal and she saw right through him.
Ultimately none of the kids deserved to succeed Logan as they all lacked their father’s ability to read people correctly and ruthlessly act accordingly
none are qualified and it wasn't really just to be CEO (in Logan's mind), it was to basically be him. Mattson was probably the closest to Logan (even though obviously Mattson was not how he planned it).
One thing the limo scene made me think of was maybe deep down Shiv orchestrated this and it wasn't a "she changed her mind and flipped in the moment" scenario. Not sure if that's true or not, but sure seemed like that scene (even with no words) hinted at that.
The conference room scene was cartoonishly bad.
I don't think the election really matters at this point. Mencken kind of alluded to the fact he wasn't going to kill the deal anyway when he basically told Kendall "I'll see what I can do". Or at least there was some doubt if he would.
I was right in that none of the three kids would get it. Wrong in thinking Mencken would be a part in it. Should have seen it coming. The show has repeatedly built something up, only to abandon it with a token throwaway line. They throw out a lot of dead end plot lines. Sloppy? Or trying too hard to be cunning by having a lot of chaff to keep the missile from honing in?
At the top of the unrealistic heap is Tom getting the nod as CEO. I was so wrong about them going in such a farcical direction. Ultimately, though, under the definition of farce genre, a thumbnail of this show is all that is needed.
He said something about Kendall's children. his daughter was adopted and his son was born via sperm donor.
not sure how that makes Shiv the heir, but more to the point I think it highlights how they consider the succession as a birth-rite like a monarchy not something based on competence that you earn.
Even Tom being CEO rings so true. I'm a doctor at a prestigious medical center. The department chairs are usually not the best doctors, but the ones that are most connected and suck the best dick. Succession rings so true.
And I certainly wouldn't say Shiv ends up on top just because she's still with Tom. The power dynamic of that relationship, the one thing she liked about it, has completely flipped. She's in a lifeless relationship with a puppet CEO. Pantheon level show
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
Doesn't matter who deserves it, that's really the point. It's about who was shameless enough enough to throw away his pride in the name of achieving power and status. That's Tom in a nutshell. Mattson literally tells him he wants to fuck his wife and he just shakes it off to get the job. Completely neutered. I think Tom in charge at the end makes a ton of sense
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
Agree with this 100%
I did not believe Shiv’s character there. It’s not that I didn’t believe she would feel the way she felt, but the writing gave no evidence of that change of heart. No reason. She despises Mattson. She despises her husband. She resents but does love her brother.
She’s probably right that he wouldn’t do a great job. But the story this season has been about Kendall stepping up over and over again when it mattered. He’s surprised people around him (to the upside) multiple times when the chips were down, in particular post Logan’s death.
Had Shiv kept it from him spitefully from the start, or planned to stab him, it would have made sense. For her to just wilt in the room - there was no reason given for it.
1. Shiv saw Kendall claiming victory too soon and not ensuring those on his side were happy.
2. Shiv saw Kendall could never be Logan when he was sitting at the desk.
Looked to me that it went from unsure after that meeting in Logan's office to absolutely not based on Kendall's actions when in the conference room.
This wasn't a show about a family that rallies together. It was a show about family disunity. Roman couldn't fathom that he blew it, and recoiled into self pity. Shiv couldn't stand that she got played by Mattson, and rather than support her brother, sabotaged him to prove she still could impact things. They were a tear down family. That was their humor. That was their actions. Yeah, there was an element of not believing Kendall could do it, but it was more Shiv believing she could do it better, and denying him was better than letting him have it.
This wasn't a show about a family that rallies together. It was a show about family disunity. Roman couldn't fathom that he blew it, and recoiled into self pity. Shiv couldn't stand that she got played by Mattson, and rather than support her brother, sabotaged him to prove she still could impact things. They were a tear down family. That was their humor. That was their actions. Yeah, there was an element of not believing Kendall could do it, but it was more Shiv believing she could do it better, and denying him was better than letting him have it.
Well said
I think Shiv did it for multiple reasons: 1. Couldn't bare seeing Kendall win. 2. Thought Kendall as CEO put significant risk to her billions. 3. Thought being wife to the CEO gave her a leg up on the siblings, as well as gave her child a shot at a not awful family.
The camera pivoting to Shiv's face in the meeting with the three siblings and Stewie were - in my view - certainly meant to show Shiv starting to change her mind. I thought the writers were showing Shiv realizing Kendall was never going to fill Logan's chair.
I was right in that none of the three kids would get it. Wrong in thinking Mencken would be a part in it. Should have seen it coming. The show has repeatedly built something up, only to abandon it with a token throwaway line. They throw out a lot of dead end plot lines. Sloppy? Or trying too hard to be cunning by having a lot of chaff to keep the missile from honing in?
At the top of the unrealistic heap is Tom getting the nod as CEO. I was so wrong about them going in such a farcical direction. Ultimately, though, under the definition of farce genre, a thumbnail of this show is all that is needed.
homing
This wasn't a show about a family that rallies together. It was a show about family disunity. Roman couldn't fathom that he blew it, and recoiled into self pity. Shiv couldn't stand that she got played by Mattson, and rather than support her brother, sabotaged him to prove she still could impact things. They were a tear down family. That was their humor. That was their actions. Yeah, there was an element of not believing Kendall could do it, but it was more Shiv believing she could do it better, and denying him was better than letting him have it.
Bingo. It was just pure pettiness, spite, and ego. She truly couldn’t stand for it to be one of her siblings and not her. Roman was nearly as bad because he spent the entire ep whining about how it should’ve/could’ve/would’ve been him, yet he didn’t even want the damn job at the end. He was quite happy to get the hell out of there. But at least he didn’t make up some nonsense in order to not vote for Ken. When Shiv brought up the guy’s death, that was a tell. She knew that information the entire time, yet presented it at the last moment as a reason Ken couldn’t be CEO. Nonsense. Plus, her actions the entire season were duplicitous. She could’ve been entirely above board with her support of Matsson. As for Ken, his actions in the ep were reprehensible, including trying to injure Roman twice. I was rooting for him, but he was always destined to be Charlie getting the ball yanked away as he got close.
As I said numerous times, the idiots probably could’ve done a good job if they subjugated their egos and worked together. But that was too much for them. Ken getting screwed and Tom becoming CEO was a rather obvious ending.
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Shiv being a sore loser.
This wasn't a show about a family that rallies together. It was a show about family disunity. Roman couldn't fathom that he blew it, and recoiled into self pity. Shiv couldn't stand that she got played by Mattson, and rather than support her brother, sabotaged him to prove she still could impact things. They were a tear down family. That was their humor. That was their actions. Yeah, there was an element of not believing Kendall could do it, but it was more Shiv believing she could do it better, and denying him was better than letting him have it.
Bingo. It was just pure pettiness, spite, and ego. She truly couldn’t stand for it to be one of her siblings and not her. Roman was nearly as bad because he spent the entire ep whining about how it should’ve/could’ve/would’ve been him, yet he didn’t even want the damn job at the end. He was quite happy to get the hell out of there. But at least he didn’t make up some nonsense in order to not vote for Ken. When Shiv brought up the guy’s death, that was a tell. She knew that information the entire time, yet presented it at the last moment as a reason Ken couldn’t be CEO. Nonsense. Plus, her actions the entire season were duplicitous. She could’ve been entirely above board with her support of Matsson. As for Ken, his actions in the ep were reprehensible, including trying to injure Roman twice. I was rooting for him, but he was always destined to be Charlie getting the ball yanked away as he got close.
As I said numerous times, the idiots probably could’ve done a good job if they subjugated their egos and worked together. But that was too much for them. Ken getting screwed and Tom becoming CEO was a rather obvious ending.
that's how i see it. shiv took her ball and went home.
i appreciate the result of the ending with all 3 basically left with a void they need to fill. even though there's little hope they fill it well there was probably even less hope they'd fill it well continuing to fight for logan's approval from the grave.
the way they got there was pretty stupid though. shiv getting shiv'd by matsson was obvious from 10000 miles away but the way it played out was just stupid. for all intents and purposes he was inches from costing himself the deal over something he didnt need to do before the vote - so the entire flip flop flip back just felt stupid.
I think because he knew Greg was just like him. He knew he would of done that exact same thing.
This is a really good point that I didn't catch when I was watching.
Why would he be upset with Tom? Greg used a translation app to translate Matsson and Oskar's conversation to learn the plan.
Once Greg told Tom what he learned, Tom called Matsson and said "big problem" or whatever he said to let Matsson know word was out and the Roy's would be scrambling to get votes now that they possibly lured Shiv back and the vote on the go-jo sale would be close.
Maybe I'm mistaken.
Maybe I'm mistaken.
Yeah, he just knew it wouldn't be Shiv
Maybe I'm mistaken.
They only found it was Tom when they were at the house and Shiv could read it on his face.
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Was Greg aware it was going to be Tom when he called Kendall? I don't think he was.
Maybe I'm mistaken.
They only found it was Tom when they were at the house and Shiv could read it on his face.
And Tom told her, when he said "Shiv, it's me"
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In comment 16124803 BrettNYG10 said:
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Was Greg aware it was going to be Tom when he called Kendall? I don't think he was.
Maybe I'm mistaken.
They only found it was Tom when they were at the house and Shiv could read it on his face.
And Tom told her, when he said "Shiv, it's me"
Shiv SE that in motion- with her pushing ideas on Mattson, that article that made it seem like Mattson was her puppet and then her answer about Tom.to Mattson- he knew she couldn't be truly trusted and knew that Tom would be his perfect puppet.
Maybe left the conference room to milk the moment, cherish the power she always wanted and dramatically and ruthlessly put the nail in Kendall's coffin.
But I kind of think I'm giving her character (and the writers) too much credit. Her reaction to Tom telling her it was him definitely didn't seem like she was the puppet master unless that act was part of the ruse.
it would be a better "Shiv story", if that was the case and it was her doing. If in fact she felt like Tom as US CEO and Matsson (who wants to bang her) as global CEO put her in some better position than she would ever get from Kendall, but again, I don't know it's fair to say she manipulated Matsson into naming Tom CEO (she was lukewarm on it when Lukas point blank asked her) about it and I'm not sure what Tom as US CEO does for her. Other it's not Kendall. Maybe that's enough to give her some satisfaction.
BTW- Kendall's breakdown moment of I am the Eldest Boy was borderline quite telling..
BTW- Kendall's breakdown moment of I am the Eldest Boy was borderline quite telling..
Sorry borderline psychotic and quite telling.
To me there was always an underling of, "I'd rather watch the whole thing burn down than see one of my siblings take over" and that's pretty much what happened.
Their other downfall was power divided. Logan and Mattson had absolute power, the kids could never realize their power was divided by 3 and they needed to work toghether but their egos prevented that. You either have absolute power (Logan/Mattson) or complete shill (Greg/Tom) to 'win'. The Roy kids had that taste of power but in the end didn't or couldn't realize there would need to be a compromise to 'win'.
I do think their is an irony that Ken finally seemed to get it and step-up but all his previous missteps were too much baggage.
I think because he felt like he could control him and it would give Tom some measure of power in a role he will realistically have none as a figurehead/puppet.
Putting the sticker on Greg's forehead was funny, kind of symbolic too, IMO, sort of a "this is the only remnant from Logan's world I am keeping" moment.
I think Tom respected Greg for it. When he told Shiv after she found out he was going to be CEO, “if the roles were reversed, you’d do the same.”
Greg made the right move. He had no idea Tom was getting CEO, he just wanted to stay on. Tom hinted at a massive pay cut. So, Greg uses his information to his advantage.
I think Tom respected it.
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Forgave Greg other than Greg not knowing Tom would be CEO. Although I was dying laughing when Mattsen called Greg Judas.
I think Tom respected Greg for it. When he told Shiv after she found out he was going to be CEO, “if the roles were reversed, you’d do the same.”
Greg made the right move. He had no idea Tom was getting CEO, he just wanted to stay on. Tom hinted at a massive pay cut. So, Greg uses his information to his advantage.
I think Tom respected it.
The move was similar to Tom’s move at end of season 3. I think Tom also trusts Greg and that was why he said “I just had enough capital” to save you. I think if you look at the show it is really the only relationship that truly survives. Greg is going to still be his lackey. But with that said, it was a bold move against Mattsen and Mattsen knows it—not sure how it could be forgiven so easily.
He didn't "forgive" as much as he made him his stooge.
This is a great point, that I really didn’t think about. I think he got overly confident because he knew he had the numbers to push through. This season has shown that Kendall can give a great speech and get people behind him, but his own ego got in the best of him as the most crucial time possible.
And Tom told her, when he said "Shiv, it's me"
Shiv wasn't reading it, yet, still stunned by Mattson's switch, she was groping--as she thought Tom was too: I saw those moments as taut and dramatic, when Tom seemed to be on the same page with Shiv in not knowing who Mattson was going to annoint--when he had known for the past xx hours--as the ultimate stab in the back and smug, controlled schadenfreud and vengeance for all the months of her smug keeping Tom at her family name fingertips: "I have it and you don't, and, yes, it's me." The tables turned once and for all from Tom as hanger on, dependent on Shiv for access, but now he rules the roost.
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Forgave Greg other than Greg not knowing Tom would be CEO. Although I was dying laughing when Mattsen called Greg Judas.
I think Tom respected Greg for it. When he told Shiv after she found out he was going to be CEO, “if the roles were reversed, you’d do the same.”
Greg made the right move. He had no idea Tom was getting CEO, he just wanted to stay on. Tom hinted at a massive pay cut. So, Greg uses his information to his advantage.
I think Tom respected it.
Exactly, he knew he would have done the same thing and kind of saw Greg as a version of him.
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In comment 16124812 JOrthman said:They only found it was Tom when they were at the house and Shiv could read it on his face./////////
And Tom told her, when he said "Shiv, it's me"
Shiv wasn't reading it, yet, still stunned by Mattson's switch, she was groping--as she thought Tom was too: I saw those moments as taut and dramatic, when Tom seemed to be on the same page with Shiv in not knowing who Mattson was going to annoint--when he had known for the past xx hours--as the ultimate stab in the back and smug, controlled schadenfreud and vengeance for all the months of her smug keeping Tom at her family name fingertips: "I have it and you don't, and, yes, it's me." The tables turned once and for all from Tom as hanger on, dependent on Shiv for access, but now he rules the roost.
I disagree. I felt like she sensed it, based on the look on her face. His own demeanor in the scene gave it away and then he said it, which confirmed what she was thinking.
lol. Ok.
The "you would have done the same thing" to Shiv makes sense and those two keeping a relationship also makes sense, since besides everything else in their history that is who they always were in their relationship (selfish, power hungry, etc.) and now they will share a child.
But IMO Tom keeps Greg for Tom (power) not because he would have done the same thing or because he "respects" it.
but, just my opinion.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
100% agree. You could make the argument that Tom deserved it because he was the most ruthless (next to Logan, of course). The kids had no chance, they were so damaged from growing up under Logan’s thumb that it would have been a miracle that any of them were remotely normal. Tom doesn’t have that excuse. He chose this lifestyle and was willing to sacrifice any dignity to get the ring, even as short-lived as that would be (the Swede would almost certainly can him the minute the Waystar sale is approved).
The finale began with just about the most vulnerable we've ever seen Shiv, person to person, asking Tom if he wanted a real relationship.
My read is her pregnancy was the nail in the coffin for her decision. Anointing Tom was "convenient".
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In comment 16124815 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 16124812 JOrthman said:They only found it was Tom when they were at the house and Shiv could read it on his face./////////
And Tom told her, when he said "Shiv, it's me"
Shiv wasn't reading it, yet, still stunned by Mattson's switch, she was groping--as she thought Tom was too: I saw those moments as taut and dramatic, when Tom seemed to be on the same page with Shiv in not knowing who Mattson was going to annoint--when he had known for the past xx hours--as the ultimate stab in the back and smug, controlled schadenfreud and vengeance for all the months of her smug keeping Tom at her family name fingertips: "I have it and you don't, and, yes, it's me." The tables turned once and for all from Tom as hanger on, dependent on Shiv for access, but now he rules the roost.
I disagree. I felt like she sensed it, based on the look on her face. His own demeanor in the scene gave it away and then he said it, which confirmed what she was thinking.
I felt like she sensed something was up. She could tell Tom had some powerful intel and she knew she had to draw it out.
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who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
100% agree. You could make the argument that Tom deserved it because he was the most ruthless (next to Logan, of course). The kids had no chance, they were so damaged from growing up under Logan’s thumb that it would have been a miracle that any of them were remotely normal. Tom doesn’t have that excuse. He chose this lifestyle and was willing to sacrifice any dignity to get the ring, even as short-lived as that would be (the Swede would almost certainly can him the minute the Waystar sale is approved).
I also think Tom who is experienced AF also got himself a golden parachute ($100M+). As much of a sycophant that he is he is experienced and knows what comes with CEO perks. The motherlode of stocks and a buyout if he gets fired. I mean how long do CEOs last anyway?
the big logic gap for me is still the actual board vote. i think some of the above points about kendall patting himself on the back too much are probably right. she and roman couldnt stomach giving him a W and were elated to give him the L. kendall played the best hand and did "deserve" it more than shiv who got herself screwed betting on the wrong horse, roman who went through an emotional breakdown all season, and matsson who was consistently sloppier and more erratic trying to close the deal. kendall was the alternative that got the majority of the board votes not counting his sibs because he actually did present an arguably better alternative. roman and shiv proved positive that they were bullshit with their own misplays and i think it's possible they were most afraid of kendall continuing to get positive recognition. the eulogies were basically a metaphor for the whole season, roman fucked it, kendall stepped up unexpectedly, shiv desperately tried to do the same but failed.
the way the vote played out still feels like a logic gap though because frank went first with everyone thinking kendall had the votes, why in that scenario would he vote for matsson? for self preservation wouldnt he have flipped his vote?
lol. Ok.
The "you would have done the same thing" to Shiv makes sense and those two keeping a relationship also makes sense, since besides everything else in their history that is who they always were in their relationship (selfish, power hungry, etc.) and now they will share a child.
But IMO Tom keeps Greg for Tom (power) not because he would have done the same thing or because he "respects" it.
but, just my opinion.
He didn't know it was Tom at the time. Tom never told him, so he didn't know who he was backstabbing. He only knew he was trying to secure his future. All Tom told him was that he thought he'd be "Ok" with the GoJo winning.
When Greg found out about the plan to not name Shiv USA CEO, he brought that information to Kendall understanding it would blow up the deal, and Greg would have a place in Waystar/Royco leadership leaving Tom hung out to dry.
Greg didn't do it to hang Tom out to dry. He did it to help himself, but the results would be the same. Kendall made clear he had no use for Tom so the results of Greg "trading" the information to Kendall would have been the end of Tom (in any capacity with Waystar/Royco).
the big logic gap for me is still the actual board vote. i think some of the above points about kendall patting himself on the back too much are probably right. she and roman couldnt stomach giving him a W and were elated to give him the L. kendall played the best hand and did "deserve" it more than shiv who got herself screwed betting on the wrong horse, roman who went through an emotional breakdown all season, and matsson who was consistently sloppier and more erratic trying to close the deal. kendall was the alternative that got the majority of the board votes not counting his sibs because he actually did present an arguably better alternative. roman and shiv proved positive that they were bullshit with their own misplays and i think it's possible they were most afraid of kendall continuing to get positive recognition. the eulogies were basically a metaphor for the whole season, roman fucked it, kendall stepped up unexpectedly, shiv desperately tried to do the same but failed.
the way the vote played out still feels like a logic gap though because frank went first with everyone thinking kendall had the votes, why in that scenario would he vote for matsson? for self preservation wouldnt he have flipped his vote?
I don't think it was quite obvious they had the votes. After the call from Tom, Mattson goes on red alert and we don't know who Gojo called. Shiv was supposed to lean on Sandy and Sandy and we never saw what transpired there either, but obviously not good enough since they voted, 'yes'.
I dont really think Frank was threatened by Kendall so he wanted to sell, knowing worst case, he still had a seat at the table if the Roys won.
When Greg found out about the plan to not name Shiv USA CEO, he brought that information to Kendall understanding it would blow up the deal, and Greg would have a place in Waystar/Royco leadership leaving Tom hung out to dry.
Greg didn't do it to hang Tom out to dry. He did it to help himself, but the results would be the same. Kendall made clear he had no use for Tom so the results of Greg "trading" the information to Kendall would have been the end of Tom (in any capacity with Waystar/Royco).
yes but tom presented a not-compelling case for the new world post-gojo to greg with the threat of the massive paycut. whether he was fucking with him or just trying to throw him off the scent, tom played the key role in panicking greg into thinking the sibs were his better play.
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he would survive the gojo sale and he would, he had aligned himself with Matsson. Greg knew this.
When Greg found out about the plan to not name Shiv USA CEO, he brought that information to Kendall understanding it would blow up the deal, and Greg would have a place in Waystar/Royco leadership leaving Tom hung out to dry.
Greg didn't do it to hang Tom out to dry. He did it to help himself, but the results would be the same. Kendall made clear he had no use for Tom so the results of Greg "trading" the information to Kendall would have been the end of Tom (in any capacity with Waystar/Royco).
yes but tom presented a not-compelling case for the new world post-gojo to greg with the threat of the massive paycut. whether he was fucking with him or just trying to throw him off the scent, tom played the key role in panicking greg into thinking the sibs were his better play.
Did Tom say Greg got paid 200k? Did I hear that scene right and he would probably get bumped down to 30-40k if Matsson kept him? lol.
Agree here, even w/o a seat at the table if Kendall, et al. won. Frank wanted his payday after all was said and done, quite enough of the Roys for one lifetime. He was pretty candid when asked at several junctures his opinion of Logan.
I dont really think Frank was threatened by Kendall so he wanted to sell, knowing worst case, he still had a seat at the table if the Roys won.
i think frank had a seat at the table if kendall won but only if he was on their team. that's why i think it's strange he voted the way he did because unlike karl he had never really expressed any desperation for the golden parachute. and then at the end both of them talked about possibly wanting to stay on which we know wont happen. frank's only chance to remain in the mix was voting for kendall so he self sabotaged, but i guess that's his sort of his MO back to when logan fired him the first time.
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In comment 16125121 pjcas18 said:
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he would survive the gojo sale and he would, he had aligned himself with Matsson. Greg knew this.
When Greg found out about the plan to not name Shiv USA CEO, he brought that information to Kendall understanding it would blow up the deal, and Greg would have a place in Waystar/Royco leadership leaving Tom hung out to dry.
Greg didn't do it to hang Tom out to dry. He did it to help himself, but the results would be the same. Kendall made clear he had no use for Tom so the results of Greg "trading" the information to Kendall would have been the end of Tom (in any capacity with Waystar/Royco).
yes but tom presented a not-compelling case for the new world post-gojo to greg with the threat of the massive paycut. whether he was fucking with him or just trying to throw him off the scent, tom played the key role in panicking greg into thinking the sibs were his better play.
Did Tom say Greg got paid 200k? Did I hear that scene right and he would probably get bumped down to 30-40k if Matsson kept him? lol.
i think you heard right, tom's greatest joy was fucking with greg and in that instance it almost cost him everything.
i think everyone gets focused so much on the 3 kids being unlikeable screw ups that they look past the scale of everyone else being unlikeable screw ups sometimes at an even grander scale.
The show presented him as a buffoon character, while at the same time showed that he knew how to protect himself. When they sent him on the scapegoat mission of destroying documents, which was early in the show, Greg adroitly protected himself by saving some of the documents. He's inexperienced, but he's not dumb.
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In comment 16124608 UConn4523 said:
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who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
100% agree. You could make the argument that Tom deserved it because he was the most ruthless (next to Logan, of course). The kids had no chance, they were so damaged from growing up under Logan’s thumb that it would have been a miracle that any of them were remotely normal. Tom doesn’t have that excuse. He chose this lifestyle and was willing to sacrifice any dignity to get the ring, even as short-lived as that would be (the Swede would almost certainly can him the minute the Waystar sale is approved).
I also think Tom who is experienced AF also got himself a golden parachute ($100M+). As much of a sycophant that he is he is experienced and knows what comes with CEO perks. The motherlode of stocks and a buyout if he gets fired. I mean how long do CEOs last anyway?
Sure, but money isn’t the issue, power is. His wife has all the money in the world, now granted, it’s not HIS money, but I think the power, and the proximity to it, drove both of them.
Shiv has her husband as CEO, and more importantly, the real power player who wants to fuck her. Meanwhile, she’s gotten rid of her annoying brothers. Win, win.
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In comment 16125073 Section331 said:
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In comment 16124608 UConn4523 said:
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who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
100% agree. You could make the argument that Tom deserved it because he was the most ruthless (next to Logan, of course). The kids had no chance, they were so damaged from growing up under Logan’s thumb that it would have been a miracle that any of them were remotely normal. Tom doesn’t have that excuse. He chose this lifestyle and was willing to sacrifice any dignity to get the ring, even as short-lived as that would be (the Swede would almost certainly can him the minute the Waystar sale is approved).
I also think Tom who is experienced AF also got himself a golden parachute ($100M+). As much of a sycophant that he is he is experienced and knows what comes with CEO perks. The motherlode of stocks and a buyout if he gets fired. I mean how long do CEOs last anyway?
Sure, but money isn’t the issue, power is. His wife has all the money in the world, now granted, it’s not HIS money, but I think the power, and the proximity to it, drove both of them.
Shiv has her husband as CEO, and more importantly, the real power player who wants to fuck her. Meanwhile, she’s gotten rid of her annoying brothers. Win, win.
Not saying he didn't crave that (power) but he wasn't in that weight class of wealth imo. Tom may have had tens of millions of dollars, but he was living the billionaire lifestyle due to Shiv. I think money was huge for Tom, more than power.
I still remember his conversation with Greg about being rich, "Its better than being a superhero, you can do whatever you want"
I think you’re misreading people’s motivations, in particular, Shiv. She says during the conference room scene, ”Really I love you, but I cannot fucking stomach you.” There was no speech or business plan that was going to sway her. She just didn’t want it to be him if it wasn’t going to be her.
As for your point about Logan, the one thing that separated him from his kids was that he was calculating about business. He was never going to let emotions get in the way of the numbers. His kids were utter failures at that. He also had a personality that engendered fear and loyalty. Matsson is somewhat similar in that way. During this entire show, the only person who stayed loyal to one of the kids was Stewy to Ken. Willa was loyal to Con up to a point and Gerri was loyal to Roman until he fired her in a fit of pique.
If you had told me 5 years ago: "You're going to be really caught up in a fictionalized story of billionaire nepo-babies where the *losers* walk away with billions," I would not have believed you.
Very well done show.