to have us thinking it is either Shiv as CEO with a Mattson buyout, or Kendall with Mattson blocked.
Therefore, it is neither.
They make constant comparisons of Mencken to Hitler. Many industrialists backed Hitler's rise to power thinking he could be controlled. That plan backfired. This has been on my mind, so I have to think Mencken backstabs everyone. Either he allows Mattson to purchase, but his own choice of CEO (not Shiv), or he blocks the sale, while also blocking Kendall taking CEO. Does Connor know dirt on Kendall? Would be funny seeing Connor throw the family under the bus in order to get his cushy diplomat post.
Is related to Tom's surname: Wambsganss. It's the same last name as a famous baseball player, Bill Wambsganss... known for having executed the only un assisted triple play in the World Series.....people knowing this history are wondering if Tom also pulls off a triple play and ends up at the helm of Waystar after out maneuvering the three siblings.
Everything to me is pointing to Kendal winning. He’s come up big or at least not fallen flat in every big moment of late (the smart home launch, bailing out Roman on the fly at the Funeral Eulogy, winning some of the old guard over). He has also become the “killer” which his father criticized him for lacking that critical trait (not sure if he has maybe gone too far but the hostility with his ex wife this season seems like it’s headed for disaster).
Meanwhile the other siblings have failed due to not being able to develop past their personal deficiencies. Roman a bit unhinged which has always blown up in his face all last week. Shiv’s trust issues always breaking down her relationships as she always has to play both sides trying to have a favorable out which always backfires. Colin just being a bit of an eccentric that has always just been a little out of touch With reality.
Will be fun to see how it all plays out, but with only one episode to go my money is this is set up for Ken to execute a takeover. Will be interesting to see what he does with his siblings and what comes of Tom and Greg.
I don’t see how Kendall gets the top job given the fact that so many of his “opponents” know about his role in the death of the waiter a few seasons ago.
Hadn’t heard of the Tom theory mentioned above with the last name and the unassisted triple play. That could not be a coincidence and that makes the most sense to me. Plus, I can see Tom having a spin off show that would work.
Kendall. This is Kendall's moment and Greg will play a role here. Tom will blow up Shiv for sure and Roman is heading towards a breakdown but do not discount Geri here.. They showed her briefly recently looking after Roman as he walked away, there are feelings still there...
Has Kendall, Roman, and Shiv thrown off the top of the Waystar building. Last shot is of their blood spattered remains in the street below, while Logan, Tom, and Greg look down with satisfaction.
The show has always been about Kendall growth from an ambitious ex-junkee to the personable killer Logan always wanted. Last week Kendall knew for sure his wife was taking his kids, and that his siblings are out for themselves. That’s when the lights went on, and he said fuck everyone.
was the black sheep of the family, but I don't see the show as being his story. He was always the guy angling for a hostile takeover, and thus had a bit bigger role than the other siblings.
If it was anyone's show, it was Logan's. The story of a guy whose self centered greed couldn't allow him to properly groom and anoint a successor, leading to a succession battle which Logan fought all the way til his dying breath.
that’s something that happened as a result of failed attempts at trying to do it the right way. I agree with those above who think it’s his show and I’d like to see him come out on top.
Like I really would've liked to see Shiv confront Madsen. Shiv having second thoughts felt kind of forced. If anything, it should've been Roman. If there was going to be an objector, it should've been Roman, not Shiv, especially after what Madsen did to her.
But all in all, it was okay. I got the sense that they may be setting up for a movie. Like I was half-expecting Kendall to jump in the water or kill himself, but the fact that he remained alive leads me to believe that it may not be entirely over?
RE: Finale was alright. Kind of felt rushed at times.
Like I really would've liked to see Shiv confront Madsen. Shiv having second thoughts felt kind of forced. If anything, it should've been Roman. If there was going to be an objector, it should've been Roman, not Shiv, especially after what Madsen did to her.
But all in all, it was okay. I got the sense that they may be setting up for a movie. Like I was half-expecting Kendall to jump in the water or kill himself, but the fact that he remained alive leads me to believe that it may not be entirely over?
For Shiv to change her mind on a dime like that was disappointing. It was nice seeing the three kids aligned even if it was so brief. I knew Kendall killing that guy would resurface. Wanted Kendall to win, don’t like Tom winning. A complete empty suit.
None of the siblings had a moral right to the throne, so seeing them all lose was the correct outcome.
I also really loved the fifteen minute stretch when the sibs all seemed to be getting along.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
Shiv isn't Team Tom. Him winding up as CEO, when their marriage is the only reason he's even allowed in the building, isn't a win for her. Even she knows it - on the last look, the best she can do is lay her land limply over his in the backseat of the car.
RE: RE: I guess I'm the only one who really liked it.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
But she doesn’t love him. She never did. She said it a lot. As someone else said, she couldn’t even bring herself to hold Tom’s hand at the end. She looked miserable.
I was happy to see the kids all get along and make a choice to keep the company. Instead Shiv suddenly changes her mind and fucks over her brothers.
I honestly need to rewatch this entire series over again. I really misread the Shiv character. I just don’t understand her motivation. In season 1 she has a success political campaign manager career and she seems to be really good at it. She is then drag into the business world by her dad, and she just forgets about the career she had? I just don’t understand her motivation. Like why is being CEO so important for her?
Tom as CEO makes sense, Mattson wants a cucked CEO who he can control. Tom is perfect. He isn't a visionary, strategic thinker, etc. He wants to be CEO.
Kendall getting unhinged was well done.
Shiv is the wife to the CEO of a subsidiary company in a terrible marriage. But she is probably best positioned of the three. They're all miserable billionaires.
I was happy to see the kids all get along and make a choice to keep the company. Instead Shiv suddenly changes her mind and fucks over her brothers.
I honestly need to rewatch this entire series over again. I really misread the Shiv character. I just don’t understand her motivation. In season 1 she has a success political campaign manager career and she seems to be really good at it. She is then drag into the business world by her dad, and she just forgets about the career she had? I just don’t understand her motivation. Like why is being CEO so important for her?
All the siblings were mindfucked by their father. They were all destined to spend their lives chasing his approval (save for Connor). Once Shiv got a taste of what it felt like to be seen by him, she spent the rest of the series jonesing for it, making bad decision after bad decision.
I'll grant that her final turn where she flips her vote at the last possible second seemed unmotivated, but the subsequent shouting match proved she was right.
Not sure if it’s egos or what. You would think the kids lost the company. They freakin sold it and made billions. They all have enough money for there great great grandchildren.
Not sure if it’s egos or what. You would think the kids lost the company. They freakin sold it and made billions. They all have enough money for there great great grandchildren.
For all intents and purposes, they've had money their entire lives. They wanted the thing they never had.
Seemed like the aha moment for Shiv was when Kendall was sitting in Logan’s chair for the first time and he was promising Stewy the Chairman title as well as favours for others. She was reminded that Ken is not his father, not a serious businessperson with the chops to succeed and given his train wreck past was likely to send the company, it’s reputation and her net worth plunging
I didn’t think Ken would jump in the water. The theme of water as redemption/resetting has been constant throughout the show. His threat to Shiv was all manipulative to try and get her to vote to block the deal and she saw right through him.
Ultimately none of the kids deserved to succeed Logan as they all lacked their father’s ability to read people correctly and ruthlessly act accordingly
Seemed obvious from the beginning that none of the kids were up to the task. None of them were the right person. Logan knew it. That truth played out. If not them then who. Tom made as much sense as anyone. Maybe more with his connection to Shiv. Played out just as it should have. True to the characters.
none are qualified and it wasn't really just to be CEO (in Logan's mind), it was to basically be him. Mattson was probably the closest to Logan (even though obviously Mattson was not how he planned it).
One thing the limo scene made me think of was maybe deep down Shiv orchestrated this and it wasn't a "she changed her mind and flipped in the moment" scenario. Not sure if that's true or not, but sure seemed like that scene (even with no words) hinted at that.
The conference room scene was cartoonishly bad.
I don't think the election really matters at this point. Mencken kind of alluded to the fact he wasn't going to kill the deal anyway when he basically told Kendall "I'll see what I can do". Or at least there was some doubt if he would.
I don't think it was ever intended to be realistic, though.
I was right in that none of the three kids would get it. Wrong in thinking Mencken would be a part in it. Should have seen it coming. The show has repeatedly built something up, only to abandon it with a token throwaway line. They throw out a lot of dead end plot lines. Sloppy? Or trying too hard to be cunning by having a lot of chaff to keep the missile from honing in?
At the top of the unrealistic heap is Tom getting the nod as CEO. I was so wrong about them going in such a farcical direction. Ultimately, though, under the definition of farce genre, a thumbnail of this show is all that is needed.
Kendall not being true blood and that Shiv was more the real heir? Maybe I misunderstood that comment..
He said something about Kendall's children. his daughter was adopted and his son was born via sperm donor.
not sure how that makes Shiv the heir, but more to the point I think it highlights how they consider the succession as a birth-rite like a monarchy not something based on competence that you earn.
This show started to bore me last 2 seasons, but I loved the ending.
I love the fact that ultimately these are just worthless rich kids. Even Roman says they are jack shit in the end. Completely accurate about generational wealth. Hits home, because in my fancy pants North Shore LI neighborhood, there are 2 types of people. Those that become successful by personal achievement (doctors, lawyers, etc). And then there those that inherited their wealth, who think they are the shit but are actually just shit. When I am forced to interact with them (like at my kids little league game), you can tell they just fucking dumb shits who are clueless in life. In the beginning I wondered how someone so stupid can afford to live in this zipcode, and then you find out they inherited the family wealth/business.
Even Tom being CEO rings so true. I'm a doctor at a prestigious medical center. The department chairs are usually not the best doctors, but the ones that are most connected and suck the best dick. Succession rings so true.
Very appropriate. Like Kendall said in the funeral episode, "Life is contingent. People who love you also fuck you." To go from the good times in their mom's kitchen to the embarrassment in the boardroom was quick but fitting for these three that were constantly flipping on each other. None of the siblings could live with the idea of one of the others "winning."
And I certainly wouldn't say Shiv ends up on top just because she's still with Tom. The power dynamic of that relationship, the one thing she liked about it, has completely flipped. She's in a lifeless relationship with a puppet CEO. Pantheon level show
who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
Is correct, but Tom deserves it even less. Tom winning ruins the show for me.
Doesn't matter who deserves it, that's really the point. It's about who was shameless enough enough to throw away his pride in the name of achieving power and status. That's Tom in a nutshell. Mattson literally tells him he wants to fuck his wife and he just shakes it off to get the job. Completely neutered. I think Tom in charge at the end makes a ton of sense
who deserved it. Such a strange qualifier given how you can argue most if not all of the cast doesn’t deserve it. And I’m sure Logan loves that Tom, a guy he treated like a peasant, is now the face of his company, lol.
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
Agree with this 100%
I did not believe Shiv’s character there. It’s not that I didn’t believe she would feel the way she felt, but the writing gave no evidence of that change of heart. No reason. She despises Mattson. She despises her husband. She resents but does love her brother.
She’s probably right that he wouldn’t do a great job. But the story this season has been about Kendall stepping up over and over again when it mattered. He’s surprised people around him (to the upside) multiple times when the chips were down, in particular post Logan’s death.
Had Shiv kept it from him spitefully from the start, or planned to stab him, it would have made sense. For her to just wilt in the room - there was no reason given for it.
that she got up from the room at least unsure of her vote, but then Kendall's actions convinced her 100% that he was not right for the job? He kind of proved her point in that room.
Shiv's face changed when Kendall put his feet up in Logan's office and started offering things to Stewie with the vote up in the air.
1. Shiv saw Kendall claiming victory too soon and not ensuring those on his side were happy.
2. Shiv saw Kendall could never be Logan when he was sitting at the desk.
Looked to me that it went from unsure after that meeting in Logan's office to absolutely not based on Kendall's actions when in the conference room.
I don’t buy that at all. Feet up on the desk did him in? She went from fucking Mattson and Tom over to taking the company away from her family just because of that? And he did secure the votes, she experienced it live in person. I’ll admit that it’s par for the course of this show where people’s minds change in a dime, and I think that’s why I’ve grown not to enjoy watching it.
Therefore, it is neither.
They make constant comparisons of Mencken to Hitler. Many industrialists backed Hitler's rise to power thinking he could be controlled. That plan backfired. This has been on my mind, so I have to think Mencken backstabs everyone. Either he allows Mattson to purchase, but his own choice of CEO (not Shiv), or he blocks the sale, while also blocking Kendall taking CEO. Does Connor know dirt on Kendall? Would be funny seeing Connor throw the family under the bus in order to get his cushy diplomat post.
Tom and Greg are out the door.
Meanwhile the other siblings have failed due to not being able to develop past their personal deficiencies. Roman a bit unhinged which has always blown up in his face all last week. Shiv’s trust issues always breaking down her relationships as she always has to play both sides trying to have a favorable out which always backfires. Colin just being a bit of an eccentric that has always just been a little out of touch With reality.
Will be fun to see how it all plays out, but with only one episode to go my money is this is set up for Ken to execute a takeover. Will be interesting to see what he does with his siblings and what comes of Tom and Greg.
Hadn’t heard of the Tom theory mentioned above with the last name and the unassisted triple play. That could not be a coincidence and that makes the most sense to me. Plus, I can see Tom having a spin off show that would work.
If it was anyone's show, it was Logan's. The story of a guy whose self centered greed couldn't allow him to properly groom and anoint a successor, leading to a succession battle which Logan fought all the way til his dying breath.
But all in all, it was okay. I got the sense that they may be setting up for a movie. Like I was half-expecting Kendall to jump in the water or kill himself, but the fact that he remained alive leads me to believe that it may not be entirely over?
But all in all, it was okay. I got the sense that they may be setting up for a movie. Like I was half-expecting Kendall to jump in the water or kill himself, but the fact that he remained alive leads me to believe that it may not be entirely over?
I was sure he was going to kill himself.
Shiv stayed true to her name. Romulus killed his brother.
Logan originally stayed on because Kendall wasn't willing to do what it took to succeed.
That's the universe that was laid out for us.
Kendall finally got to that point, and the winner is a lap dog? That defies the rules of the universe.
I don't mind the Roy's eating each other up, but that's a hollow ending.
Agreed of all the people he is the most despicable and most whore like..
I also really loved the fifteen minute stretch when the sibs all seemed to be getting along.
I also really loved the fifteen minute stretch when the sibs all seemed to be getting along.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
Quote:
None of the siblings had a moral right to the throne, so seeing them all lose was the correct outcome.
I also really loved the fifteen minute stretch when the sibs all seemed to be getting along.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
Shiv isn't Team Tom. Him winding up as CEO, when their marriage is the only reason he's even allowed in the building, isn't a win for her. Even she knows it - on the last look, the best she can do is lay her land limply over his in the backseat of the car.
Shiv didn’t really lose though. If it would’ve been a random CEO and not Tom she would’ve.
But she doesn’t love him. She never did. She said it a lot. As someone else said, she couldn’t even bring herself to hold Tom’s hand at the end. She looked miserable.
Tom putting the sticker on Greg’s forehead.
I honestly need to rewatch this entire series over again. I really misread the Shiv character. I just don’t understand her motivation. In season 1 she has a success political campaign manager career and she seems to be really good at it. She is then drag into the business world by her dad, and she just forgets about the career she had? I just don’t understand her motivation. Like why is being CEO so important for her?
Tom as CEO makes sense, Mattson wants a cucked CEO who he can control. Tom is perfect. He isn't a visionary, strategic thinker, etc. He wants to be CEO.
Kendall getting unhinged was well done.
Shiv is the wife to the CEO of a subsidiary company in a terrible marriage. But she is probably best positioned of the three. They're all miserable billionaires.
I honestly need to rewatch this entire series over again. I really misread the Shiv character. I just don’t understand her motivation. In season 1 she has a success political campaign manager career and she seems to be really good at it. She is then drag into the business world by her dad, and she just forgets about the career she had? I just don’t understand her motivation. Like why is being CEO so important for her?
All the siblings were mindfucked by their father. They were all destined to spend their lives chasing his approval (save for Connor). Once Shiv got a taste of what it felt like to be seen by him, she spent the rest of the series jonesing for it, making bad decision after bad decision.
I'll grant that her final turn where she flips her vote at the last possible second seemed unmotivated, but the subsequent shouting match proved she was right.
For all intents and purposes, they've had money their entire lives. They wanted the thing they never had.
I didn’t think Ken would jump in the water. The theme of water as redemption/resetting has been constant throughout the show. His threat to Shiv was all manipulative to try and get her to vote to block the deal and she saw right through him.
Ultimately none of the kids deserved to succeed Logan as they all lacked their father’s ability to read people correctly and ruthlessly act accordingly
none are qualified and it wasn't really just to be CEO (in Logan's mind), it was to basically be him. Mattson was probably the closest to Logan (even though obviously Mattson was not how he planned it).
One thing the limo scene made me think of was maybe deep down Shiv orchestrated this and it wasn't a "she changed her mind and flipped in the moment" scenario. Not sure if that's true or not, but sure seemed like that scene (even with no words) hinted at that.
The conference room scene was cartoonishly bad.
I don't think the election really matters at this point. Mencken kind of alluded to the fact he wasn't going to kill the deal anyway when he basically told Kendall "I'll see what I can do". Or at least there was some doubt if he would.
I was right in that none of the three kids would get it. Wrong in thinking Mencken would be a part in it. Should have seen it coming. The show has repeatedly built something up, only to abandon it with a token throwaway line. They throw out a lot of dead end plot lines. Sloppy? Or trying too hard to be cunning by having a lot of chaff to keep the missile from honing in?
At the top of the unrealistic heap is Tom getting the nod as CEO. I was so wrong about them going in such a farcical direction. Ultimately, though, under the definition of farce genre, a thumbnail of this show is all that is needed.
He said something about Kendall's children. his daughter was adopted and his son was born via sperm donor.
not sure how that makes Shiv the heir, but more to the point I think it highlights how they consider the succession as a birth-rite like a monarchy not something based on competence that you earn.
Even Tom being CEO rings so true. I'm a doctor at a prestigious medical center. The department chairs are usually not the best doctors, but the ones that are most connected and suck the best dick. Succession rings so true.
And I certainly wouldn't say Shiv ends up on top just because she's still with Tom. The power dynamic of that relationship, the one thing she liked about it, has completely flipped. She's in a lifeless relationship with a puppet CEO. Pantheon level show
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
Doesn't matter who deserves it, that's really the point. It's about who was shameless enough enough to throw away his pride in the name of achieving power and status. That's Tom in a nutshell. Mattson literally tells him he wants to fuck his wife and he just shakes it off to get the job. Completely neutered. I think Tom in charge at the end makes a ton of sense
Just don’t like the 11th hour mind change to have it end on a “Fuck You” moment. It usually means lazy writing and that’s exactly how it felt watching the last 20 minutes.
Agree with this 100%
I did not believe Shiv’s character there. It’s not that I didn’t believe she would feel the way she felt, but the writing gave no evidence of that change of heart. No reason. She despises Mattson. She despises her husband. She resents but does love her brother.
She’s probably right that he wouldn’t do a great job. But the story this season has been about Kendall stepping up over and over again when it mattered. He’s surprised people around him (to the upside) multiple times when the chips were down, in particular post Logan’s death.
Had Shiv kept it from him spitefully from the start, or planned to stab him, it would have made sense. For her to just wilt in the room - there was no reason given for it.
1. Shiv saw Kendall claiming victory too soon and not ensuring those on his side were happy.
2. Shiv saw Kendall could never be Logan when he was sitting at the desk.
Looked to me that it went from unsure after that meeting in Logan's office to absolutely not based on Kendall's actions when in the conference room.