Since I know nothing about him save for what I’ve read, I’m wondering why many refer to him as “not a true number 1?”
Please don’t parrot the “route tree” stuff unless you’ve actually watched him play beyond some YouTube highlights and are actually familiar with what he was or wasn’t asked to do in college.
We have a terrific coaching staff who seem to be noted for getting players to realize their full and true potential.
So aside from “anything’s possible,” does he have the requisite skillset to be a number 1 receiver IYO?
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They said the same thing about Amani Toomer.
Love Toomer, but remember we had to get a better no.1 wr to win the super bowl.
Toomer made a lot of big catches and plays during that championship season, he was a part of the reason Plax was a effective he was
Plax was also trending down in '03 -'04. Who knows, maybe he wouldn't have been a FA otherwise.
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In comment 16124709 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 16124698 Mike from Ohio said:
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Not sure why that can’t be discussed.
We don’t know if he can run the whole route tree effectively because he didn’t do it in college. We also don’t know if he can beat press coverage off the line because he never had to do it in college. There is a reason the guy was available in the 3rd round.
Nobody knows what the guys true capability is, but he is coming into the league with a lot more question marks than most guys who go on to become top receivers.
It’s a valid concern if, as I mentioned in the OP, people actually saw him play and deduced that he wasn’t a good “route-treer.” But my sense is that a bunch of the media just parrots what they’ve heard and didn’t actually watch him play or even noticed the “route tree.” If that is true, I learn nothing from them and that’s WHY I alluded to it in my OP..
I want to learn why he supposedly has a problem with it and not that he does without substance to the assertion.
Did you watch him play and deduce that he CAN in fact run the whole route tree?
Reading is fundamental. I said I never saw him play. I said unless someone actually saw him run or didn’t run a route tree, I don’t want to read it from those who are parroting what they read or heard. I want actual observations on this subject. That’s how I learn.
Forgive me oh wise one for not going back and re-reading the original post before replying to this one.
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In comment 16124711 RicFlair said:
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In comment 16124709 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 16124698 Mike from Ohio said:
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Not sure why that can’t be discussed.
We don’t know if he can run the whole route tree effectively because he didn’t do it in college. We also don’t know if he can beat press coverage off the line because he never had to do it in college. There is a reason the guy was available in the 3rd round.
Nobody knows what the guys true capability is, but he is coming into the league with a lot more question marks than most guys who go on to become top receivers.
It’s a valid concern if, as I mentioned in the OP, people actually saw him play and deduced that he wasn’t a good “route-treer.” But my sense is that a bunch of the media just parrots what they’ve heard and didn’t actually watch him play or even noticed the “route tree.” If that is true, I learn nothing from them and that’s WHY I alluded to it in my OP..
I want to learn why he supposedly has a problem with it and not that he does without substance to the assertion.
Did you watch him play and deduce that he CAN in fact run the whole route tree?
Reading is fundamental. I said I never saw him play. I said unless someone actually saw him run or didn’t run a route tree, I don’t want to read it from those who are parroting what they read or heard. I want actual observations on this subject. That’s how I learn.
Forgive me oh wise one for not going back and re-reading the original post before replying to this one.
That “Reading is Fundamental” was not necessary Ric..Apologies
There are several routes that aren't actually on the tree.
Otherwise you're talking about the ability to run a dig (90* cuts), slants posts and corners (45ish* cuts), curls, hooks, arrows etc...
The real test for me is recognizing with the defense actually is post-snap and adjusting your route or choosing the required option instantly.
I agree with the comment that"running the entire route tree" is nothing more than people parroting what they believe is an "industry term."
When we had Nicks and Cruz who would be considered the number one you could say it was Cruz you could say it was Nicks. Did it really matter. Take Miami right now. They have Tyreek Hill and Waddle. Who is the number one does it really matter?
When we had Nicks and Cruz who would be considered the number one you could say it was Cruz you could say it was Nicks. Did it really matter. Take Miami right now. They have Tyreek Hill and Waddle. Who is the number one does it really matter?
It's divisive for the team, IMHO. So don't sweat it.
rookies dont work out for a variety of reasons but the truth is nobody knows whether or not any of them will work out from the first pick to the last. brock purdy was literally mr irrelevant the year after zach wilson went #2 and his own team traded a haul to move up to #3 for trey lance.
there's of course a difference in the talent level of earlier and later picks but that's why hyatt is exciting because his pure talent level for a 3rd rounder is about as high as it gets. he is an explosive talent. no other player has put up more than 3 tds against a nick saban defense, even the ones who run a full route tree.
The league is just reluctant because of the number of WRs who have flopped from that system.
I think it was Kafka who said the other day college is like 4 years ahead of the NFL, so I hope he's implementing some of the Briles + Heupel stuff.
The league is just reluctant because of the number of WRs who have flopped from that system.
I think it was Kafka who said the other day college is like 4 years ahead of the NFL, so I hope he's implementing some of the Briles + Heupel stuff.
the briles system specifically under briles (or the leach/dykes teams and even up to stoops/snyder) havent had a lot of big talents tested against top competition. there have been a lot of big 12 wr busts generally, id imagine in large part because they got overrated playing against crappy defenses. there have also been success from that snyder/stoops/leach tree from tyler lockett to crabtree to lamb to hollywood brown. just not as many as the sec but i would first guess that's bc they don't get players as good as the sec (or even big 10/acc).
there's a reason the spread has expanded the way it has through the sec over the last decade to great effect. lane kiffin is probably the single person most responsible for adapting the bama offense that's pumped out just as many stud wrs as osu/lsu. lincoln riley just got paid a fortune bc his fingerprints are over the nfl (in part why he was able to spend a fortune to get addison). joe brady unlocked lsu with the spread and launched himself into the nfl in 1 year. heupel may do some unique stuff but the spread is basically ubiquitous at this point. the fact that heupel coached gabe davis should give us some confidence that daboll/schoen have a pretty good handle on the specific task ahead.
hyatt's biggest risk imo is not the system or scheme projection but just that he hasnt played a ton of football as a junior entry whose first year was the covid year and missing a chunk of his second year with injury. there just isn't a huge track record to go on. but i would bet if he went back and had a healthy senior year he would not have made it anywhere close to pick 73.
I think worries about press coverage and his weight are overrated. I do think he needs to keep hitting the weights to add strength in his lower half..their were yac opportunities in his videos where if he had kept his balance just broke an arm tackle there’s chance for huge gains. I think he will though. If you read enough on him, there’s a few articles where they mention that early on in his career he was reluctant to put on weight because he was worried it would impact his speed. For those complaining about his weight/frame realize he was playing his freshman year under 160lbs. I think it’s only in the last year or maybe slightly more that he bought in and really focused on the weight room and obviously it didn’t impact his speed in a negative manner..quite the opposite(the tape doesn’t lie..it’s legitimate elite downfield speed).
We don’t know if he can run the whole route tree effectively because he didn’t do it in college. We also don’t know if he can beat press coverage off the line because he never had to do it in college. There is a reason the guy was available in the 3rd round.
Nobody knows what the guys true capability is, but he is coming into the league with a lot more question marks than most guys who go on to become top receivers.
I don't understand this at all... he's obviously stupid fast, a great athlete and has great hands. So we're saying he may not be able to run a slant? Or a Go-route??? Really?
The "can't run the route tree" is the hot take of the 2020s...
Isn't that semantics, though? If your TE1 is getting the target-share that a WR1 in a prolific offense would get, does it matter whether you label your top WR a WR1 or not? Unless you use the player like a WR1 gets used, he's not a WR1, IMO.
Like how Ron Dayne was arguably the best RB in CFB when he won the Heisman?
And if you're being fair, Toomer is a very good example of a receiver who was at his best as a 1B with a 1A (Burress) opposite him, and even without Plax, Toomer was generally viewed as a 2nd tier WR1 (at best). So those same things could have been said about Toomer and they could have been valid, even as he was compiling a tremendous body of work for the Giants over the course of his full career.
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of course he can be a #1 receiver in the nfl (whatever way you want to quantify it).
Like how Ron Dayne was arguably the best RB in CFB when he won the Heisman?
projecting to the pros ron dayne's standout qualities were what?
Hyatt is fast and had a monster game against Alabama and that got him a Belitnikoff award. But the point is NFL GMs thought 9 other college wide receivers have games that translate better to the pros.
he certainly wasnt randy moss or marvin harrison, but after the 5-10 guys in that cluster he was in the next group with the terry glenn, joey galloway, jimmy smiths, keyshawn johnsons of the world even though his reputation was more under the radar.
when he hit 30 his explosiveness went over a cliff and he became a role player. body control was still there but he had no ability to separate.
Hyatt is fast and had a monster game against Alabama and that got him a Belitnikoff award. But the point is NFL GMs thought 9 other college wide receivers have games that translate better to the pros.
howie roseman thought jalen reagor would translate better to the pros than justin jefferson.
dk metcalf was the 9ther wr taken in 2019, a few picks after andy isabella. howie roseman took JJ arcega whiteside ahead of him.
that same draft ajb and deebo samuel went in round 2 (after bill belichek took nkeal harry in round 1).
those are 4 glaring mistakes so as far as gm consensus when splitting hairs between wr5/wr9 there's an extensive recent history of sec wrs in the 2nd/3rd round outperforming guys picked ahead of them so it's not the best position to argue the power of conventional gm wisdom.
the draft is an unknown, im not quite sure what your point is but ron dayne has nothing in common with jalin hyatt. ron dayne was a 4 year starter who at the time didn't just win a heisman for 1 great year but was more anointed a lifetime achievement award for breaking ricky williams career record. he didnt perform at the combine because he weighed in at 259 pounds and probably would have run a 4.8. the giants made a stupid pick.
As for Hyatt yeah why not, could be 1 or not.
As for Hyatt yeah why not, could be 1 or not.
Michigan ran the wing T in the early 1990s?
Does any of these jokes even make you chuckle? Because I doubt they bring any humor to anyone else.
the point of my post was that he has that potential, not that he's some kind of lock to reach his potential, so it seems you agree with that?
if you reread my post i specifically noted that the probability is a separate part of the equation.
In comment 16124873 Eric on Li said:
the dayne reference continues to be flawed. i hated the ron dayne pick in real time, still remember exactly where i was when i heard they made it, but if he was an exceptional athlete who had a great combine in combination with his production perhaps his NFL career would have actually tracked ricky williams and nobody would have hated it? and certainly if that happened AND he'd fallen to the 2nd or 3rd round even those of us that hated the pick would have felt very differently.
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Not sure why that can’t be discussed.
We don’t know if he can run the whole route tree effectively because he didn’t do it in college. We also don’t know if he can beat press coverage off the line because he never had to do it in college. There is a reason the guy was available in the 3rd round.
Nobody knows what the guys true capability is, but he is coming into the league with a lot more question marks than most guys who go on to become top receivers.
It’s a valid concern if, as I mentioned in the OP, people actually saw him play and deduced that he wasn’t a good “route-treer.” But my sense is that a bunch of the media just parrots what they’ve heard and didn’t actually watch him play or even noticed the “route tree.” If that is true, I learn nothing from them and that’s WHY I alluded to it in my OP..
I want to learn why he supposedly has a problem with it and not that he does without substance to the assertion.
So you want people to explain why he can't do something he has never done? The questions are there simply because he has never done it - or possibly never been asked to do it.
You can equate this with returning punts. Can Jalin Hyatt return punts? Nobody has seen anything to prove he can't, but would you just believe he can do it at a high level? It is an unknown. Running the full route tree at an NFL level is not easy. We'll all believe he can do it at a high level when there is evidence to suggest he can.
If Hyatt had shown everything teams needed to see on tape to be a first round grade, he would have been a first rounder. Per Schoen the Giants were comfortable drafting Banks despite having only one big year on his belt, because he showed everything he needed to see.
There was a good article after the Bama win in the Athletic describing how Heupel has combined a lot of the Air Raid and spread concepts, with the more extreme elements of Briles offense.
I watched way more college ball at that time, and that Briles system is extreme. The WRs are stacked and lined up basically off the screen. The entire offense is about scheming one guy open over the top open. It's an awesome system. It's also largely a single read system so that might favor Jones as well.
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Not sure why that can’t be discussed.
We don’t know if he can run the whole route tree effectively because he didn’t do it in college. We also don’t know if he can beat press coverage off the line because he never had to do it in college. There is a reason the guy was available in the 3rd round.
Nobody knows what the guys true capability is, but he is coming into the league with a lot more question marks than most guys who go on to become top receivers.
I don't understand this at all... he's obviously stupid fast, a great athlete and has great hands. So we're saying he may not be able to run a slant? Or a Go-route??? Really?
The "can't run the route tree" is the hot take of the 2020s...
So everyone who is fast can gain separation in the NFL? Running routes is just about speed and knowing which way to run?
This site...
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Not sure why that can’t be discussed.
We don’t know if he can run the whole route tree effectively because he didn’t do it in college. We also don’t know if he can beat press coverage off the line because he never had to do it in college. There is a reason the guy was available in the 3rd round....
Oh it can be discussed. Now do you(or I) know what "running the entire route tree" means? That is an important question.
And he did have press coverage in college and he did beat it. It was not often, but he faced it.
And believe it or not, there are ways to defeat press coverage - motion, stacked formations, etc., besides muscling through it. And then that brings in the point that if he beats press off the LoS, he is likely going to have a huge gain with his speed. Very few CBs will be able to run with him. Once he gets a step, good bye.
Of course you can scheme guys open and stack formations to keep a WR from press coverage. The question is then "how many #1 WRs in the NFL need that on a regular basis?" I think that answer would be none, because you are describing a guy who has limitations you need to plan around.
Hyatt may be able to easily beat press coverage and run the full route tree at an exceptionally high level. I hope he can do both and explodes into a top WR in this league. I just don't understand the view of "explain to me why the guy drafted in the third round won't be special" argument. As JonC said, the odds are against it. Someone beats those odds every year and I hope Hyatt does, but it is certainly more realistic to hope this guy can contribute as opposed to dominate.
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In comment 16124717 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 16124711 RicFlair said:
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In comment 16124709 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 16124698 Mike from Ohio said:
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Not sure why that can’t be discussed.
We don’t know if he can run the whole route tree effectively because he didn’t do it in college. We also don’t know if he can beat press coverage off the line because he never had to do it in college. There is a reason the guy was available in the 3rd round.
Nobody knows what the guys true capability is, but he is coming into the league with a lot more question marks than most guys who go on to become top receivers.
It’s a valid concern if, as I mentioned in the OP, people actually saw him play and deduced that he wasn’t a good “route-treer.” But my sense is that a bunch of the media just parrots what they’ve heard and didn’t actually watch him play or even noticed the “route tree.” If that is true, I learn nothing from them and that’s WHY I alluded to it in my OP..
I want to learn why he supposedly has a problem with it and not that he does without substance to the assertion.
Did you watch him play and deduce that he CAN in fact run the whole route tree?
Reading is fundamental. I said I never saw him play. I said unless someone actually saw him run or didn’t run a route tree, I don’t want to read it from those who are parroting what they read or heard. I want actual observations on this subject. That’s how I learn.
Forgive me oh wise one for not going back and re-reading the original post before replying to this one.
That “Reading is Fundamental” was not necessary Ric..Apologies
Appreciated and forgiven.
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In comment 16124698 Mike from Ohio said:
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Not sure why that can’t be discussed.
We don’t know if he can run the whole route tree effectively because he didn’t do it in college. We also don’t know if he can beat press coverage off the line because he never had to do it in college. There is a reason the guy was available in the 3rd round.
Nobody knows what the guys true capability is, but he is coming into the league with a lot more question marks than most guys who go on to become top receivers.
It’s a valid concern if, as I mentioned in the OP, people actually saw him play and deduced that he wasn’t a good “route-treer.” But my sense is that a bunch of the media just parrots what they’ve heard and didn’t actually watch him play or even noticed the “route tree.” If that is true, I learn nothing from them and that’s WHY I alluded to it in my OP..
I want to learn why he supposedly has a problem with it and not that he does without substance to the assertion.
So you want people to explain why he can't do something he has never done? The questions are there simply because he has never done it - or possibly never been asked to do it.
You can equate this with returning punts. Can Jalin Hyatt return punts? Nobody has seen anything to prove he can't, but would you just believe he can do it at a high level? It is an unknown. Running the full route tree at an NFL level is not easy. We'll all believe he can do it at a high level when there is evidence to suggest he can.
You’re missing the point. I am not discounting the import of the route tree. I just don’t want to hear opinions I can easily google. I want opinions from those people who have seen him play in real time. Not highlights, not YouTube, not general opinions. I want info from those who have watched Hyatt live either in person (preferable) or on TV..
If you have seen Hyatt play full games, I want to learn from you. Otherwise, I couldn’t care less what you have culled from media reports. I can do that myself.
I am not interested in the route tree per se, I am interested in Hyatt only as it pertains to it. Whether he’s run it or not, I want to hear from those who have seen him run it or have not seen him run it while watching him in real time.
That’s all I care about
if zay flowers came out as a junior he wouldn't have been a first round pick.
if devonta smith came out as a junior he wouldn't have been a first round pick.
jameson williams had 15 total catches in college heading into his junior year and entered the draft rehabbing a torn acl.
trying to make sense of the draft is like trying to make sense of the stock market at one given moment in time. some things are obvious, others are confusing in real time and for me hyatt's slide to the 3rd round is one of those things because the red flags arent tangible like being 5'7.
hyatt was possibly the highest upside selection relative to pick # of any nyg pick i can recall. tuck is the only comparable one i can think of (he was also one of the first juniors i remember the nyg drafting). id have been just as thrilled with tank dell so this isn't an irrational love of 1 player but rather that he and tank happened to be the best big play guys in the draft with enormous productivity and that's why the nyg needed. would have been happy with either in round 2 over jms (though i get why they did that). getting either in round 3 seemed unrealistic to me, and hyatt much moreso than dell since he did it against better competition and has better tangibles.
I think teams are drafting more on ceiling than anything else at WR, so I was surprised he lasted.
The entire football world seems to agree great production, great hands, elite speed. I don't think it's complicated why he wasn't a round one player. At best it's going to take some time for him to establish he can do the table stakes stuff he wasn't asked to do in college. And there's an outside chance he can't do those things.
The first and most relevant point is that even the pros are clearly not very good at predicting ceilings well. Ample evidence of that...
There are just too many unknowns here to weigh in the affirmative as for a low probability event it gets even lower if you are not referring to various dominant college seasons.
Add in for a #1 you are probably talking about needing to have at least 2 to in all likelihood 3 elite traits in terms of speed/elusiveness/hands/size/route running. I'd say he only really has proven 1 at this point although upper echelon there clearly.
But you can't really do Tyreek because Tyreek is like top of class in speed and elusiveness so you can even debate the rest of the traits all you want there but Hyatt isn't going to learn to be on the same continent as Hill in elusiveness.
I really think we will be happy with him as a pick, especially in the 3rd round but hoping for him to turn into a #1 seems to just be setting yourself up for disappointment.
i see the point you are trying to make here but it's just incorrect. there are a lot of college players who compile statistics and awards but dont project well to the pros because of a lack of athleticism and ron dayne's 4 years as one of the most decorated rbs in cfb history was a poster child for them.
hyatt is an explosive track athlete 1 year wonder early declaration, which is basically the exact opposite type of profile.
dayne was literally and figuratively on the opposite end of the scale. this is a comparison so stupid i cant believe it's taken this many replies to use the word the stupid.
The first and most relevant point is that even the pros are clearly not very good at predicting ceilings well. Ample evidence of that...
There are just too many unknowns here to weigh in the affirmative as for a low probability event it gets even lower if you are not referring to various dominant college seasons.
Add in for a #1 you are probably talking about needing to have at least 2 to in all likelihood 3 elite traits in terms of speed/elusiveness/hands/size/route running. I'd say he only really has proven 1 at this point although upper echelon there clearly.
But you can't really do Tyreek because Tyreek is like top of class in speed and elusiveness so you can even debate the rest of the traits all you want there but Hyatt isn't going to learn to be on the same continent as Hill in elusiveness.
I really think we will be happy with him as a pick, especially in the 3rd round but hoping for him to turn into a #1 seems to just be setting yourself up for disappointment.
"setting yourself up for disappointment"
Is this not a fan's #1 job?
:)
The first and most relevant point is that even the pros are clearly not very good at predicting ceilings well. Ample evidence of that...
There are just too many unknowns here to weigh in the affirmative as for a low probability event it gets even lower if you are not referring to various dominant college seasons.
Add in for a #1 you are probably talking about needing to have at least 2 to in all likelihood 3 elite traits in terms of speed/elusiveness/hands/size/route running. I'd say he only really has proven 1 at this point although upper echelon there clearly.
But you can't really do Tyreek because Tyreek is like top of class in speed and elusiveness so you can even debate the rest of the traits all you want there but Hyatt isn't going to learn to be on the same continent as Hill in elusiveness.
I really think we will be happy with him as a pick, especially in the 3rd round but hoping for him to turn into a #1 seems to just be setting yourself up for disappointment.
hoping for any player to turn into a #1 anything is setting yourself up for disappointment but that's the draft. the odds are that deonte banks wont be a #1 corner, jms wont be an elite C, and hyatt wont be a #1 wr. getting 1 out of 3 would be a good outcome for the nyg.
if you cant navigate that there are inherent low probability odds of success then why even discuss draft picks before they play a game? evan neal may have been considered one of the safest draft picks the giants have made in my lifetime and by all metrics he was 1 of the worst RT in football last year.
I think teams are drafting more on ceiling than anything else at WR, so I was surprised he lasted.
The entire football world seems to agree great production, great hands, elite speed. I don't think it's complicated why he wasn't a round one player. At best it's going to take some time for him to establish he can do the table stakes stuff he wasn't asked to do in college. And there's an outside chance he can't do those things.
i dont think he would have needed to up his statistics proportionally, he already had a better year than flowers senior season. if he had just stayed healthy, not regressed in any major way, and showed some normal amount of progression he probably would have been a first round pick even with some statistical regression like addison.
he also could have gotten injured or not done those things. so dont confuse what im saying for a guarantee. there are no more guarantees with draft prospects than stock picks.
the point is his consensus ranking already supported a borderline first round talent. jeremiah had him as high as #23 and only as low as #42 in his top 50's. we know of 2 teams where it's come out publicly he was also graded in that range (raiders/giants). there's a pretty clear upside relative to where the nyg got him. he's a real deal sam beal.
Going out and roughly proving it again would have boded well for him. I think going out and having big YoY improvement like some of the guys you mentioned certainly would have boded well.
I imagine consistency is a pretty big factor in rating a player. But the Giants took a guy at 24 with one big time season, and didn't downgrade him for that. So my bet is there's more to it than that with Hyatt.
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In comment 16124709 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 16124698 Mike from Ohio said:
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Not sure why that can’t be discussed.
We don’t know if he can run the whole route tree effectively because he didn’t do it in college. We also don’t know if he can beat press coverage off the line because he never had to do it in college. There is a reason the guy was available in the 3rd round.
Nobody knows what the guys true capability is, but he is coming into the league with a lot more question marks than most guys who go on to become top receivers.
It’s a valid concern if, as I mentioned in the OP, people actually saw him play and deduced that he wasn’t a good “route-treer.” But my sense is that a bunch of the media just parrots what they’ve heard and didn’t actually watch him play or even noticed the “route tree.” If that is true, I learn nothing from them and that’s WHY I alluded to it in my OP..
I want to learn why he supposedly has a problem with it and not that he does without substance to the assertion.
So you want people to explain why he can't do something he has never done? The questions are there simply because he has never done it - or possibly never been asked to do it.
You can equate this with returning punts. Can Jalin Hyatt return punts? Nobody has seen anything to prove he can't, but would you just believe he can do it at a high level? It is an unknown. Running the full route tree at an NFL level is not easy. We'll all believe he can do it at a high level when there is evidence to suggest he can.
You’re missing the point. I am not discounting the import of the route tree. I just don’t want to hear opinions I can easily google. I want opinions from those people who have seen him play in real time. Not highlights, not YouTube, not general opinions. I want info from those who have watched Hyatt live either in person (preferable) or on TV..
If you have seen Hyatt play full games, I want to learn from you. Otherwise, I couldn’t care less what you have culled from media reports. I can do that myself.
I am not interested in the route tree per se, I am interested in Hyatt only as it pertains to it. Whether he’s run it or not, I want to hear from those who have seen him run it or have not seen him run it while watching him in real time.
That’s all I care about
I did misunderstand, Doc. I don't know how you are expecting to get opinions on how he runs route trees when he didn't really do it in college, but this is BBI so I am guessing you will get lots of strong opinions based on nothing.
Going out and roughly proving it again would have boded well for him. I think going out and having big YoY improvement like some of the guys you mentioned certainly would have boded well.
I imagine consistency is a pretty big factor in rating a player. But the Giants took a guy at 24 with one big time season, and didn't downgrade him for that. So my bet is there's more to it than that with Hyatt.
there are obvious tangible differences:
1. banks is a rarer athlete who played a position of greater need (for nyg). add 25 pounds to hyatt while losing no speed and he probably goes closer to where banks went. add 25 pounds to addison or zay flowers and those may be the guys the nyg are trying to trade up for instead of banks.
2. banks is a year older and played an extra year at maryland. he played in 11 games a freshman starting 8 in 2019, started the 2020 season was shortened to 5 games by covid, and got his full senior year after the injury as a junior. the giants specifically noted it:
you (and others) seem to be missing the point re hyatt's fall. it didn't happen for no reason but rather for reasons that may have been solved just by playing more games at UT and modest developments (like gaining the 5-10 pounds he's supposedly gained since the draft). it's great to get safer plug and play guys like jms too but on the flip side he's 24 and played more than everyone he's faced for the past several seasons so you could send him back to college as many years as you want he probably isn't changing much.
hyatt entered the draft early as a 1 hit wonder and the giants got a big discount on upside because of that. there is no guarantee any 3rd round pick will work out, this one obviously included, but normally you dont get guys with both that much explosiveness and production from the sec out of the top 50. that's why dabs was excited to pick him even at #57 if the bears took jms. the only few i can think of in the last half decade are aj brown, dk metcalf, and if you want to squint maybe you could count terrace marshall's covid shortened year and george pickens, though he was coming off a missed year for an acl and had some off the field stuff. wandale went #43 and i made a version of this same argument because he too had insane production in the sec though in his case the size risks were a lot more tangible.
I'm glad he only had the 1 big year! We wouldn't have gotten him in the 3rd rd if he stayed and had a similar Sr year! (obviously, we wouldn't have gotten him this year at all if he had stayed, but we wouldn't have in the 3rd in '24 either).
No one knows exactly what he's going to become, but I think it's very possible people are going to be asking someday "how did the Giants get Jalen Hyatt in the 3rd round?!" And the fact he came out as a Jr after only 1 big yr will be part of the answer.
I'm glad he'll be spending what could've been his Sr yr in college, instead learning the pro game and helping the Giants win beginning in '23 (he can finish his degree later, he might even appreciate it more).
i dont think they are going to be able to keep him off the field but his skill set can make an impact even in a very limited capacity. as many have said, his 1 trick is a very good trick.
sort of like christian watson (and not totally different from how wandale was tracking) last year i think early on we'll see him get worked in slowly with some shots but once he starts getting confident and playing fast the talent difference will be obvious. i think campbell and slayton are going to have a pretty tough time holding him off as the year progresses unless they step up beyond what they've been so far.
I think it's a factor in addition to him playing in a system that didn't demand many of skills required at the next level.
Jalin Hyatt appeared in 35 college games and logged 1305 snaps (~100 less than London did when he got drafted 7th).
Tae Banks appeared in 30 college games and logged 1492 snaps.
I think the Giants (and the league) had plenty of data to make an informed decision, and determined he was the 73rd most desirable player.
I don't think serious talent evaluators conclude a player has all the requisite skills to be a first round investment, but skip him 40 more times because he only had one big season.
100%, especially Slayton. Day one I think Hyatt can do everything Slayton can downfield but with better hands and ease with ball over his shoulder.
unless you have 32 team boards there's no way to do a forensic analysis of where he was rated. just like the nyg chose jms he may have been the fallback option on 10 different teams boards.
the draft is a multi-dimensional thing. it is possible teams high on him didn't have the need and teams that werent as high on him did. going into the draft he was the consensus WR4 or WR5, so the difference of where he went and where he was projected to go were the teams higher than expected on Jon Mingo, Tank Dell, Rashee Rice, and Jayden Reed because they all went ahead of their consensus ranks. also all seniors and i think all played in senior bowl. with mingo and dell i very much get it, i may have chosen either of them over hyatt too. it wasnt a great WR draft at the top but it did have solid depth (if you dont remember you can go back but before the draft my preference was defense round 1 and then WR round 2 or 3 for exactly that reason, just expected hyatt would be gone and it would be someone like dell or mingo).
But now we have the benefit of hindsight and reality. He was the 73rd selection. That's obviously a culmination of where he was graded by teams going in + how things played out over those two days. When it really came down to it, no matter who says what, no one valued him above 73. It's not like he was 35th pick.
Hypothetical -- Hyatt stays at Tennessee, Heupel mixes in more traditional NFL looks, Hyatt struggles in those sets, but puts up a strong statistical season. Does he go in round one?
But now we have the benefit of hindsight and reality. He was the 73rd selection. That's obviously a culmination of where he was graded by teams going in + how things played out over those two days. When it really came down to it, no matter who says what, no one valued him above 73. It's not like he was 35th pick.
Hypothetical -- Hyatt stays at Tennessee, Heupel mixes in more traditional NFL looks, Hyatt struggles in those sets, but puts up a strong statistical season. Does he go in round one?
not enough information to determine and i dont think heupel's offense matters a ton. if you told me 2022 addison w/ lincoln riley caleb willliams would put up half the yardage he did in 2021 and test as poorly as he did i wouldnt have believed you and he still went rd 1. it entirely depends on how the class stacks up relative to each other.
ill say this though if hyatt led the sec in yards/tds again id say lock first rounder. or just 1k/10 tds. i think the number of players who have done that are on less than 2 hands and prob all first rounders.