once enough teams fail to hit on the money saving strategies they will come around. Prices are bargains and I think the market has already bottomed out.
trends in the college and pro games stay in place as true headwinds. Doesn't mean that NFL GMs will ignore them on Day 1 or Day 2 of the draft, only that their respective needs from time to time and very cheap rookie dollars drive their decisions. Heavy free agent supply will also keep ceiling in place.
Zeke didn't report before he got paid would not be surprised if Barkley does the same.
I’m hoping he stays out until the regular season opener. Stay in shape. Doesn’t take long to get used to being hit (once he returns).
Bruce, lol. What do you think is more likely ...
Barkley signs today and gets hurt in training camp or Barkley signs the week of Game 1 and gets hurt playing in the games with no camp? I truly have no idea why people believe players sitting out is a good thing.
Zeke didn't report before he got paid would not be surprised if Barkley does the same.
I’m hoping he stays out until the regular season opener. Stay in shape. Doesn’t take long to get used to being hit (once he returns).
Bruce, lol. What do you think is more likely ...
Barkley signs today and gets hurt in training camp or Barkley signs the week of Game 1 and gets hurt playing in the games with no camp? I truly have no idea why people believe players sitting out is a good thing.
Many have done it and most do fine save for the usual soreness. I’d rather he be fresh for ghe start of the season and Yes, I always have felt that way. They no their bodies and nothing of substance would be gained by him going to camp, imv..Worked for Strahan and others
Zeke didn't report before he got paid would not be surprised if Barkley does the same.
I’m hoping he stays out until the regular season opener. Stay in shape. Doesn’t take long to get used to being hit (once he returns).
Bruce, lol. What do you think is more likely ...
Barkley signs today and gets hurt in training camp or Barkley signs the week of Game 1 and gets hurt playing in the games with no camp? I truly have no idea why people believe players sitting out is a good thing.
Many have done it and most do fine save for the usual soreness. I’d rather he be fresh for ghe start of the season and Yes, I always have felt that way. They no their bodies and nothing of substance would be gained by him going to camp, imv..Worked for Strahan and others
By your logic, players should never practice so they are fresh for the games. Do you really think training camp is tough anymore? They are so micromanaged. Players need to practice.
I didn't see a "case" at all. I saw a guy trying to justify his own contract, and lamenting the fact that the position he plays has been devalued over time. I didn't see anything to warrant reversing that trend.
No, not all players. Just the key vets who know the system, know how
once enough teams fail to hit on the money saving strategies they will come around. Prices are bargains and I think the market has already bottomed out.
I agree. Even in today's nfl it is still too important of a position, though I think it may take a while to get there
Is good. Timing. Acclimated to the team which will have changes in players.
End of the world no. But don't think it's very wise. Yes or lll not getting the money he thought. And he may never. But under the think w have any control over. Near the top lol. He will show up or won't. Think he needs to swallow some pride and take less money to be w the NYGs. Think it's a really good place for him. But we will see
I didn't see a "case" at all. I saw a guy trying to justify his own contract, and lamenting the fact that the position he plays has been devalued over time. I didn't see anything to warrant reversing that trend.
This. There might be a case to pay them, but CMC does not make it. The reality remains the same: the 33rd best RB in football replaces much more RB production than the 33rd best player at almost any other position. Since a player really should only get paid above minimum for the amount he produces above replacement value, RBs are not going to get paid.
players should be there preseason, although its kind of ok if you are vet in the system and you miss out some. Back in the day preseason used to be brutal.
I didn't see a "case" at all. I saw a guy trying to justify his own contract, and lamenting the fact that the position he plays has been devalued over time. I didn't see anything to warrant reversing that trend.
This. There might be a case to pay them, but CMC does not make it. The reality remains the same: the 33rd best RB in football replaces much more RB production than the 33rd best player at almost any other position. Since a player really should only get paid above minimum for the amount he produces above replacement value, RBs are not going to get paid.
I see this posted a lot and there isn’t much data backing it up, if any. There’s a wide gap in ability from the best 2-3 RBs and the 15th - so where are you getting double that number from? NFL coaches don’t care amour fantasy football and that’s what quoting production numbers only gets you. There’s so many other variables besides YPC.
The position is so cheap that it’s now a bargain to pay a top player at the position. Problem is the 3 guys who’d be getting big contracts arent/weren’t UFAs and got tagged. So the market correction will have to wait until next year.
Zeke didn't report before he got paid would not be surprised if Barkley does the same.
I’m hoping he stays out until the regular season opener. Stay in shape. Doesn’t take long to get used to being hit (once he returns).
I think I heard that he can't negotiate anymore until sometime in January after July 15. At that point, it's sign the tag or don't play. If he wants to get paid in 2023, and doesn't have a new deal before 7/15 or so, he'll have no choice but to stay in shape and show up.
. . . get that the conventional wisdom is don't invest in RBs, but I would love to see a statistical comparison comparing top RBs to top WRs entering their second contract/late 30s.
Maybe it's just my Giants-fan-stripes-showing but doesn't it seem like a truckload of WRs peter out in their late 20s these days? The Giants alone had four seemingly-star WRs in their early 20s - Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Odell Beckham, Michael Golladay - none of whom was good on their second Contract and that's all in like the last 15 years.
Other examples that spring to mind - Adam Thielen just got cut, Antonio Brown was out of the league around age 30, Calvin Johnson retired around age 30... I'm sure there are others.
Anywho sort of off topic but seems odd that it doesn't get talked about . . . (note this isn't a 'RBs should get paid' comment but more of a 'Football is an insanely brutal sport and very few humans can play it for long without getting hurt' note)
I’ve been very against a lot of these WR deals. I’d rather pay the top RB than get a borderline WR1 for about the same or more money. So many WRs just aren’t worth their contracts.
Once Hopkins lands on his new team 28 WRs will make more money than Barkley on the tag. Guys like Hunter Renfrow, Corey Davis, Michael Gallup, Jakobi Meyers and bunch more just don’t come close to impacting the game like Barkley does.
I’d rather trade for a WR or draft one. Paying one in free agency is unbelievably risky.
I’ve been very against a lot of these WR deals. I’d rather pay the top RB than get a borderline WR1 for about the same or more money. So many WRs just aren’t worth their contracts.
Once Hopkins lands on his new team 28 WRs will make more money than Barkley on the tag. Guys like Hunter Renfrow, Corey Davis, Michael Gallup, Jakobi Meyers and bunch more just don’t come close to impacting the game like Barkley does.
I’d rather trade for a WR or draft one. Paying one in free agency is unbelievably risky.
I mean, sure - paying market value for ANY player in the NFL these days is a huge risk. Even QBs are hard to justify since the NFL CBA basically makes salary binary: players on their rookie Contract are essentially free labor and established stars are all as a result, effectively overpaid (Except for Patrick Mahomes).
That said, unless/until you can draft 50 players in the same year you gotta pay someone ... I'm just more curious about how the conventional wisdom has evolved that RBs in their late 20s are ALWAYS a bad bet whereas there is no such stigma against aging WRs.... when honestly I'm not sure there is that much of a difference. Any NFL player that relies on speed and athleticism will see their abilities diminish a lot once the injuries/hits pile up....
Right but the risk with RBs isn’t what it’s cracked up to be
I’d rather risk paying Barkley $13m a season than re-sign Hunter Renfrow, a chain mover, at $14m. Corey Davis got $27m guaranteed which is a good deal above what I think we offered Barkley, and it’s like he doesn’t exist on the Jets, a complete nobody.
5 years ago handing a RB $50m guaranteed was a bad idea. Now, it’s not even 50% of that yet the production remains the same. It’s a bargain.
RE: Right but the risk with RBs isn’t what it’s cracked up to be
I’d rather risk paying Barkley $13m a season than re-sign Hunter Renfrow, a chain mover, at $14m. Corey Davis got $27m guaranteed which is a good deal above what I think we offered Barkley, and it’s like he doesn’t exist on the Jets, a complete nobody.
5 years ago handing a RB $50m guaranteed was a bad idea. Now, it’s not even 50% of that yet the production remains the same. It’s a bargain.
Oh that's a reasonable argument. I didn't like the Slayton over Julian Love contract pretty much for the same reason. Assuming the WRs are somewhat healthy Slayton is probably like the 4th guy and unlikely to see much action (and he's not a special teams guy either). Meanwhile Julian Love was an every down starter and glue guy - not a super star of course, but pretty much the definition of smart, tough, and dependable. But the Giants saw it otherwise I guess.
Market prices run on supply and demand; not what you "deserve." Ask a nurse if you don't believe me.
Barkley must either play on the tag, or negotiate something else by July 15 at 4:00. Or sit out. My guess is that a deal gets done around 3:30 on July 15th. There is no pressure on either side until then.
The team and Barkley can work out practice and preseason loads to balance preparation and wear and tear. And the team should be doing that for all the players.
I’m hoping he stays out until the regular season opener. Stay in shape. Doesn’t take long to get used to being hit (once he returns).
Quote:
Zeke didn't report before he got paid would not be surprised if Barkley does the same.
I’m hoping he stays out until the regular season opener. Stay in shape. Doesn’t take long to get used to being hit (once he returns).
Bruce, lol. What do you think is more likely ...
Barkley signs today and gets hurt in training camp or Barkley signs the week of Game 1 and gets hurt playing in the games with no camp? I truly have no idea why people believe players sitting out is a good thing.
Quote:
In comment 16124948 Chip said:
Quote:
Zeke didn't report before he got paid would not be surprised if Barkley does the same.
I’m hoping he stays out until the regular season opener. Stay in shape. Doesn’t take long to get used to being hit (once he returns).
Bruce, lol. What do you think is more likely ...
Barkley signs today and gets hurt in training camp or Barkley signs the week of Game 1 and gets hurt playing in the games with no camp? I truly have no idea why people believe players sitting out is a good thing.
Many have done it and most do fine save for the usual soreness. I’d rather he be fresh for ghe start of the season and Yes, I always have felt that way. They no their bodies and nothing of substance would be gained by him going to camp, imv..Worked for Strahan and others
Quote:
In comment 16124955 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16124948 Chip said:
Quote:
Zeke didn't report before he got paid would not be surprised if Barkley does the same.
I’m hoping he stays out until the regular season opener. Stay in shape. Doesn’t take long to get used to being hit (once he returns).
Bruce, lol. What do you think is more likely ...
Barkley signs today and gets hurt in training camp or Barkley signs the week of Game 1 and gets hurt playing in the games with no camp? I truly have no idea why people believe players sitting out is a good thing.
Many have done it and most do fine save for the usual soreness. I’d rather he be fresh for ghe start of the season and Yes, I always have felt that way. They no their bodies and nothing of substance would be gained by him going to camp, imv..Worked for Strahan and others
By your logic, players should never practice so they are fresh for the games. Do you really think training camp is tough anymore? They are so micromanaged. Players need to practice.
Completely disagree. Do you think this will be the same offense as last year?
Quote:
to get in shape..Very little to learn for a star like SB. Stay fresh, esp. given the beating his position takes for many snaps a game..
Completely disagree. Do you think this will be the same offense as last year?
We will NEVER, EVER agree on this. Whatever the O is, he’ll pick up quickly..Let’s discuss other things on other threads. This is a total stalemate..😎
I agree. Even in today's nfl it is still too important of a position, though I think it may take a while to get there
These guys produce huge, only to get told “too bad” because we aren’t paying for that moving forward.
So you never truly get compensated fairly for the large production. That isn’t right.
End of the world no. But don't think it's very wise. Yes or lll not getting the money he thought. And he may never. But under the think w have any control over. Near the top lol. He will show up or won't. Think he needs to swallow some pride and take less money to be w the NYGs. Think it's a really good place for him. But we will see
This. There might be a case to pay them, but CMC does not make it. The reality remains the same: the 33rd best RB in football replaces much more RB production than the 33rd best player at almost any other position. Since a player really should only get paid above minimum for the amount he produces above replacement value, RBs are not going to get paid.
Quote:
I didn't see a "case" at all. I saw a guy trying to justify his own contract, and lamenting the fact that the position he plays has been devalued over time. I didn't see anything to warrant reversing that trend.
This. There might be a case to pay them, but CMC does not make it. The reality remains the same: the 33rd best RB in football replaces much more RB production than the 33rd best player at almost any other position. Since a player really should only get paid above minimum for the amount he produces above replacement value, RBs are not going to get paid.
I see this posted a lot and there isn’t much data backing it up, if any. There’s a wide gap in ability from the best 2-3 RBs and the 15th - so where are you getting double that number from? NFL coaches don’t care amour fantasy football and that’s what quoting production numbers only gets you. There’s so many other variables besides YPC.
The position is so cheap that it’s now a bargain to pay a top player at the position. Problem is the 3 guys who’d be getting big contracts arent/weren’t UFAs and got tagged. So the market correction will have to wait until next year.
Quote:
Zeke didn't report before he got paid would not be surprised if Barkley does the same.
I’m hoping he stays out until the regular season opener. Stay in shape. Doesn’t take long to get used to being hit (once he returns).
I think I heard that he can't negotiate anymore until sometime in January after July 15. At that point, it's sign the tag or don't play. If he wants to get paid in 2023, and doesn't have a new deal before 7/15 or so, he'll have no choice but to stay in shape and show up.
Some backs have proven to be clear difference makers. You just have to pay the right ones and determine what impact the RB has in the equation.
Maybe it's just my Giants-fan-stripes-showing but doesn't it seem like a truckload of WRs peter out in their late 20s these days? The Giants alone had four seemingly-star WRs in their early 20s - Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Odell Beckham, Michael Golladay - none of whom was good on their second Contract and that's all in like the last 15 years.
Other examples that spring to mind - Adam Thielen just got cut, Antonio Brown was out of the league around age 30, Calvin Johnson retired around age 30... I'm sure there are others.
Anywho sort of off topic but seems odd that it doesn't get talked about . . . (note this isn't a 'RBs should get paid' comment but more of a 'Football is an insanely brutal sport and very few humans can play it for long without getting hurt' note)
Once Hopkins lands on his new team 28 WRs will make more money than Barkley on the tag. Guys like Hunter Renfrow, Corey Davis, Michael Gallup, Jakobi Meyers and bunch more just don’t come close to impacting the game like Barkley does.
I’d rather trade for a WR or draft one. Paying one in free agency is unbelievably risky.
Once Hopkins lands on his new team 28 WRs will make more money than Barkley on the tag. Guys like Hunter Renfrow, Corey Davis, Michael Gallup, Jakobi Meyers and bunch more just don’t come close to impacting the game like Barkley does.
I’d rather trade for a WR or draft one. Paying one in free agency is unbelievably risky.
I mean, sure - paying market value for ANY player in the NFL these days is a huge risk. Even QBs are hard to justify since the NFL CBA basically makes salary binary: players on their rookie Contract are essentially free labor and established stars are all as a result, effectively overpaid (Except for Patrick Mahomes).
That said, unless/until you can draft 50 players in the same year you gotta pay someone ... I'm just more curious about how the conventional wisdom has evolved that RBs in their late 20s are ALWAYS a bad bet whereas there is no such stigma against aging WRs.... when honestly I'm not sure there is that much of a difference. Any NFL player that relies on speed and athleticism will see their abilities diminish a lot once the injuries/hits pile up....
5 years ago handing a RB $50m guaranteed was a bad idea. Now, it’s not even 50% of that yet the production remains the same. It’s a bargain.
5 years ago handing a RB $50m guaranteed was a bad idea. Now, it’s not even 50% of that yet the production remains the same. It’s a bargain.
Oh that's a reasonable argument. I didn't like the Slayton over Julian Love contract pretty much for the same reason. Assuming the WRs are somewhat healthy Slayton is probably like the 4th guy and unlikely to see much action (and he's not a special teams guy either). Meanwhile Julian Love was an every down starter and glue guy - not a super star of course, but pretty much the definition of smart, tough, and dependable. But the Giants saw it otherwise I guess.
Barkley must either play on the tag, or negotiate something else by July 15 at 4:00. Or sit out. My guess is that a deal gets done around 3:30 on July 15th. There is no pressure on either side until then.
The team and Barkley can work out practice and preseason loads to balance preparation and wear and tear. And the team should be doing that for all the players.