My son plays on a 8U travel baseball team. It is parent coaches. The Head Coach right now got kind of thrusted into it when our first HC quit. Nice guy, but totally doesn’t know what he is doing in terms of youth coach. On our 8U team we have three siblings from the 9U team. One of those siblings on the 9U team is eligible to play 8U ball because he is of age along with another member of the 8U team. Those two 8U eligible players are struggling at 9U and not getting pitching and catching opportunities that I guess they think they deserve. So our HC emails the 8U parents saying that the two 8U eligible kids that play on the 9U team will play for us whenever they don’t have a 9U conflict. We already have 12 kids and this would take time away from other kids. I have never said a word to the coach’s in my life for any of my sons, but doesn’t this seem terribly wrong and sends the wrong message. If those 9U players who are 8U eligible wanted to play for the 8U team they should have tried out for it. Instead they tried out for the 9U team, the 9U team took them and is now using our team as like a practice squad to mollify parents who are upset their kids aren’t getting playing time at 9U. Was wondering what other people would do or say, knowing if I complain I probably hurt my kid because these guys might take it out on him as tue 9U/8U leadership is very cliquey.
I hear hockey is rough with regard to the traveling that's often required, but I have zero experience with that.
I will say it sounds like you're not getting much for your money.
If no other parents feel the same as you, I'd just wait out the season and move on.
if others do too I'd tell the coach how the parents feel.
this isn't a gripe about your kids playing time, it's legitimately calling out someone's bullshit.
I don’t think that’s the issue. His issue is kids not on the team will now be added with the team and that is definitely not how it should work.
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then this is the way it is, and will be until your child graduates high school. The best kids play, and each year there are new kids coming on and current kids moving on. If this isn't what you want then maybe sticking with a rec team is a better option. Traveling teams (and my experience is in soccer) isn't a place where everyone plays, its a place where everything is competitive and the top kids play.
I don’t think that’s the issue. His issue is kids not on the team will now be added with the team and that is definitely not how it should work.
I get it, and its definitely happened on my daughters teams. In a big club with many teams, there were always kids "playing up" for some reason. If they couldn't hack it the club would try to move them to a team more in their own skill level (or their own age), rather than lose them to another club. Not saying they will start or play, that will be determined by the coach after he sees how good they are, but it definitely has happened.
Its funny you say this because this has really been the decisive factor for me in keeping my mouth shut. My kid does not know or understand the nerve of this parent to put developing his kid over the development of other kids. In fact, one of the kids from the 9U team he is really close friends with and is happy to have him on his team. While I am not happy for my kid and I think he is on a poorly run team, it is not about me--its about him and he is having fun (in part because he does not know any better). In the end, it really comes down to whether I advocate for him when he does not know better and cannot advocate for himself.
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In comment 16126138 PatersonPlank said:
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then this is the way it is, and will be until your child graduates high school. The best kids play, and each year there are new kids coming on and current kids moving on. If this isn't what you want then maybe sticking with a rec team is a better option. Traveling teams (and my experience is in soccer) isn't a place where everyone plays, its a place where everything is competitive and the top kids play.
I don’t think that’s the issue. His issue is kids not on the team will now be added with the team and that is definitely not how it should work.
I get it, and its definitely happened on my daughters teams. In a big club with many teams, there were always kids "playing up" for some reason. If they couldn't hack it the club would try to move them to a team more in their own skill level (or their own age), rather than lose them to another club. Not saying they will start or play, that will be determined by the coach after he sees how good they are, but it definitely has happened.
It is more than that; it would be one thing if they said we are moving them to this team and they are on this team. I think that would be a tough pill to swallow, but I would not be as outraged as I am now when they say they will play with us "whenever available" while staying on the 9U team. The whenever available means whenever it is convenient for them so as to not miss their 9U games. So these two kids get to develop at the expense of the development of two of our 8u kids. That, to me, is the outrageous aspect of it.
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In comment 16126183 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 16126138 PatersonPlank said:
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then this is the way it is, and will be until your child graduates high school. The best kids play, and each year there are new kids coming on and current kids moving on. If this isn't what you want then maybe sticking with a rec team is a better option. Traveling teams (and my experience is in soccer) isn't a place where everyone plays, its a place where everything is competitive and the top kids play.
I don’t think that’s the issue. His issue is kids not on the team will now be added with the team and that is definitely not how it should work.
I get it, and its definitely happened on my daughters teams. In a big club with many teams, there were always kids "playing up" for some reason. If they couldn't hack it the club would try to move them to a team more in their own skill level (or their own age), rather than lose them to another club. Not saying they will start or play, that will be determined by the coach after he sees how good they are, but it definitely has happened.
It is more than that; it would be one thing if they said we are moving them to this team and they are on this team. I think that would be a tough pill to swallow, but I would not be as outraged as I am now when they say they will play with us "whenever available" while staying on the 9U team. The whenever available means whenever it is convenient for them so as to not miss their 9U games. So these two kids get to develop at the expense of the development of two of our 8u kids. That, to me, is the outrageous aspect of it.
Ok. The other thing I've seen pretty regularly related to this, and it may end up being what happens here too, is tournament play. This really pisses parents off. The 9U may have a different tournament schedule, so they would just show up at tournament time and take a spot of someone who has been starting up until then. It was all about winning the tourny.
as for me, I coached youth soccer from U8 to U12.
I actually had good experiences with the parents. Maybe because I was always ripping the rec council for setting some teams up to struggle intentionally. Most of the 'crooked' stuff I saw was at the admin level.
Maybe it was because although I certainly played some kids a little more than others, I was kind and helpful to every child no matter their skill level. So many coaches yell and berate these kids. These are 9-11 year olds. It made me cringe.
Ultimately, it's rec soccer, no one's getting paid. I never cared about the results provided we weren't getting skunked. We seemed to have a lot more success during indoor seasons than outdoor.
Great advise. When my son was very young he played some type of pewee football and I had to laugh after one game where they lost on the drive home I asked him if he had fun and his reply was an enthusiastic “ yeah I think we won”
I don't see a problem with swapping rosters within a program, as long as there's an understanding that just because the older kids are down for a game or series, it doesn't mean they get preference.
It's a crappy thing for some, a great opportunity for others, and it's all part of the fun. lol
I don't see a problem with swapping rosters within a program, as long as there's an understanding that just because the older kids are down for a game or series, it doesn't mean they get preference.
It's a crappy thing for some, a great opportunity for others, and it's all part of the fun. lol
It is not swapping rosters. The kids are not on our team, they are coming in whenever they don't have another 9u commitment.
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If not I wouldn't mention it or harp on it. This will only sour the experience for them. 8yo travel teams. Things have really changed in the last 20 years.
Its funny you say this because this has really been the decisive factor for me in keeping my mouth shut. My kid does not know or understand the nerve of this parent to put developing his kid over the development of other kids. In fact, one of the kids from the 9U team he is really close friends with and is happy to have him on his team. While I am not happy for my kid and I think he is on a poorly run team, it is not about me--its about him and he is having fun (in part because he does not know any better). In the end, it really comes down to whether I advocate for him when he does not know better and cannot advocate for himself.
This is the answer you need. It's 8U, not the Cuban national team. Let him have fun with his friend. If it's not bothering him, you shouldn't let it bother you.
And if you really think the team is poorly run, you should volunteer to coach. At least volunteer to help him without being a dick about it. I coached a million teams because I was one of the same group of guys that always volunteered. I love coaching my kids, but it's a grind sometimes.
What I am saying is to me the point of a good travel program is for the kids to be able to develop their skills in that sport through games, volume repetition in practice of all things baseball (grounders, pops, hitting etc) that you would not otherwise get in a rec league. Obviously, there are games being played and teams want to win; I want my kids to win, but at the end of the day, if the goal is to be the best travel team, you will probably be disappointed at some point. If the goal is to develop a good ballplayer and have your son or daughter maximize their potential and career (and by career I usually mean through HS), then I think travel sports can be very beneficial. It is like the rule of 10,000 that Malcolm Gladwell discusses. If you spend 10,000 hours at doing something, you can master it. Many chess players play 10,000 hours, only one is the world champion. My purpose in signing up my kid for travel is not to hang some trophy on the wall (or plaque, or tshirt that he will outgrow) but to get him to be a better player and enjoy the process. Obviously, winning is very important and I don't want to discount it, but it can't be the only measure for a travel organization.
So your goal is your son to play HS? If that’s your goal, they’re a different ways to do this. I’d be more than happy to share some advice. I don’t know it all, no one does. But I’ve seen a lot.
Every kid, and every parent wants their kid, to play all the time and it is a complete impossibility.
The only "fair" way to divvy up the time isn't fair to the kids who always show up and play their asses off and are successful at doing so.
Typically on a team of 12 I would have 4-5 players that met the above, 3-4 that were good players with lousy attitudes and 3-4 that had good attitudes but weren't very good players (in comparison to the rest).
It can't hurt to have a respectful conversation with the coach (especially if he is new at this), but your first conversation should be with your kid to make sure he is working hard and has a good attitude whether he is playing as much as he wants to or not.
Also - not sure of your league rules, but the league I coached in allowed both a DH and an EH and I would utilize both those things to get as many kids playing at once as possible.
If they want kids to play on 2 teams they should have been assigned as part of the 12 and also pay double fees.
So your goal is your son to play HS? If that’s your goal, they’re a different ways to do this. I’d be more than happy to share some advice. I don’t know it all, no one does. But I’ve seen a lot.
I am mature enough to discuss this and take nothing personally as I realize some will have different opinions.
I am all for development, but we make choices in that development. I don't get a refund if the coach I pay for private lessons isn't as good as another coach. He made the choice to play up, if that turned out wrong I don't see why it gets to be corrected at the expense of our children's (the 8U team) development.
But 99% of it I absolutely loved. and I felt after all the years of youth sports that I played and all those volunteer coach hours I benefited from, as long as I was able it was my duty to give something back.
I wasn't self-righteous or sanctimonious but I did try and weave some life lessons in to sports and coach the kids to be better on field and off the field. We had tons of great moments. A lot of wins, some tough losses that were great teaching moments, some struggles off ice for kids that also presented teaching moments and growth - in positive ways.
but I found it rewarding personally and I hope the kids I coached got something out of it.
The parental/organizational bullshit was tiresome, but if I had to do it all over again (my youngest is now in high school so my coaching days are over), I absolutely would.
A good coach and a bad coach can be equally influential in a young athletes life - just in different ways.
But 99% of it I absolutely loved. and I felt after all the years of youth sports that I played and all those volunteer coach hours I benefited from, as long as I was able it was my duty to give something back.
I wasn't self-righteous or sanctimonious but I did try and weave some life lessons in to sports and coach the kids to be better on field and off the field. We had tons of great moments. A lot of wins, some tough losses that were great teaching moments, some struggles off ice for kids that also presented teaching moments and growth - in positive ways.
but I found it rewarding personally and I hope the kids I coached got something out of it.
The parental/organizational bullshit was tiresome, but if I had to do it all over again (my youngest is now in high school so my coaching days are over), I absolutely would.
A good coach and a bad coach can be equally influential in a young athletes life - just in different ways.
I agree with all of this, except I was baseball, soccer, and basketball instead of hockey. I loved coaching my kids, I loved getting to know all the kids that made up the world my kids lived in, I loved teaching them all the stuff about playing "the right way". Some other coaches are such raging douchebags reliving their failed sports careers. I never shied away from taking the crappy players those jerks tried to avoid. I know I could provide a lot more to the guys at the bottom of the bench than the boys at the top whose dads were grooming them for scholarships at 8 years old. These were kids that didn't even know how to throw a ball. Or catch it. I hope I made a difference for kids like that. It was very rewarding for me, and a lifetime of memories I hope for my kids. I made it out pretty lucky with very few parent issues. Other coaches were always my biggest peeve.
Don't keep your mouth shut if it is hurting your kid's development. When I was younger I played on some village-run sports teams where nobody gets cut. One soccer league the coach was abysmal (basically the coach's kid and all of his friends got to play whatever positions they wanted and played all game whereas everyone else played whatever was left, usually defense, and got substituted for to give everyone playing time when there were enough players to have subs). What made it worse was in previous seasons I had had a great coach who my parents are still friendly with. His policy was that unless you wanted a specific position that others would find less desirable or were clearly a stud if you played defense in the first half you played forward in the second half or vice versa and that everyone rotated playing in goal. My parents spoke up about the abysmal coach (it helped that they knew some people who ran the program) and I don't think he was ever a coach again after that season.
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except with one of my kids.
But 99% of it I absolutely loved. and I felt after all the years of youth sports that I played and all those volunteer coach hours I benefited from, as long as I was able it was my duty to give something back.
I wasn't self-righteous or sanctimonious but I did try and weave some life lessons in to sports and coach the kids to be better on field and off the field. We had tons of great moments. A lot of wins, some tough losses that were great teaching moments, some struggles off ice for kids that also presented teaching moments and growth - in positive ways.
but I found it rewarding personally and I hope the kids I coached got something out of it.
The parental/organizational bullshit was tiresome, but if I had to do it all over again (my youngest is now in high school so my coaching days are over), I absolutely would.
A good coach and a bad coach can be equally influential in a young athletes life - just in different ways.
I agree with all of this, except I was baseball, soccer, and basketball instead of hockey. I loved coaching my kids, I loved getting to know all the kids that made up the world my kids lived in, I loved teaching them all the stuff about playing "the right way". Some other coaches are such raging douchebags reliving their failed sports careers. I never shied away from taking the crappy players those jerks tried to avoid. I know I could provide a lot more to the guys at the bottom of the bench than the boys at the top whose dads were grooming them for scholarships at 8 years old. These were kids that didn't even know how to throw a ball. Or catch it. I hope I made a difference for kids like that. It was very rewarding for me, and a lifetime of memories I hope for my kids. I made it out pretty lucky with very few parent issues. Other coaches were always my biggest peeve.
Chris...that is awesome...and that is the exact type of coach I was.
A lot of the fees are winter workout fees. You have to pay indoor facilities to rent space and you usually use professional coaches in the winter to teach or reinforce mechanics. But given that our group is parent run for coaches, it is on the expensive side. The unis were $410 by themselves.
A lot of these coaches don't have any special qualifications other than they signed up. There is tons of politics and they play their kids first and then their kids friends or the kids of parents they are friends with.
It sounds like the real problem is a crappy coach. Unfortunately coaches putting their own kids over the team is the rule, not the exception. Even with well-coached teams it can be hard to get a lot reps per kid at practice. At that age just rounding up the kids can be a challenge!
If he loves the game just having him play catch outside of the team (with you, his u9 friend, a net,…) will make a world of difference. Size and power will always be in demand - once he gets locked in things should fall into place.
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If they meet the age requirement and they're better than the bottom 2 or 3 existing players on the 8U, they should play where they can most help the team. The other players on the team deserve that the program is putting out the best roster generally speaking.
Don't punish the players for the mistakes of the parents. But let this be the end of their days of "playing up". They shouldn't get to double-dip every season going forward. The experiment failed.
Of course, the parents of the bottom level players on the existing rosters will have some frustration. But in my experience, that's just travel ball.
Overall, this is why I believe that kids "playing up" on older teams should not be prohibited, but should truly be used sparingly and only when the players in question fall in the top ~third of the older team that they are stretching into. You do the kids no favors by having them play above their correct age group just to be the bottom-feeders on that roster.
If this is a school team then I get it. But if this is a league where parents are paying good money for their kids to play then it isn't a good idea. 14 kids on a team is a lot. It really depends on the situation and rules.
In my experience, the only team the team I have been involved with have taken eligible kids (usually siblings or friends) from another team, it's to ensure we have enough to play. Otherwise, the kids on our team play and that's it.
and yes, you want your kid to play, but in our contracts it says that equal ice time is not guaranteed and this is a competitive team. Meaning the program gets prestige and attention by winning or having success.
In hockey at least, there are town programs where equal ice time is expected, and winning is less a goal than fundamentals, but at least for hockey this is not an expectation.
That said, when I coach, every kid plays. Not necessarily equal amounts that's hard to do, but they all play.
I do think 8U is too young for this level of competitiveness, those kids should 100% still be focusing on fundamentals, but as they get into U10 and U12 and definitely U14 100% they should earn playing time. At the high school level not all the kids play and you need to develop that mind set in kids.
But what Essex posted about doesn't sound like that, it sounds like a coach or parent taking advantage of a situation to get their kid playing time on a team they didn't pay for at the expense of kids who did pay, and it's bullshit.
Like I said, this is my first time not coaching in 14 years. This is because my son asked me not to coach. He is playing for the first time with friends from school because his prior coach of the last 4 years moved to another league. My son, I think was embarrassed of his friends and didn't want me coaching them. After 2 practices he came to me and said he made a mistake because the team needs help. He's not wrong.
I'll help during games, but I haven't been going to practices. This team needs it and I blame the coaches. It is a rec league, but at this age, literally every other team is more prepared and is actually playing with intensity and to win...as sports at that age should be. This coach is constantly complaining each week that the other coach doesn't realize this is a rec league. That was fine when they were 9 or 10. At 13 kids, the kids know the game and want to really play. They take it seriously. This coach is the only one not getting that. Now I wish I didn't listen to my son and I signed up as a an assistant coach.
The original post is quite clear, my kid tried out and earned a spot and paid fro a spot on a travel team so now he can sit while someone develops a nine-year-old. It's bullshit and the fact that they played all the older kids against a bunch of 7-year-olds tells you all you need to know.
I've seen pitches with ruined arms by the age of twelve because their dads overworked them.
I'm very proud of my almost zero win lifetime winning percentage coaching hundreds or rec lacrosse games. (Developing program all new some rosters had 22 kids so I was playing them by stopwatch.) Most of the dads had no idea how lacrosse worked so I just told them to sit down and shut up and let their kids learn the game and support each other. Pre Lasso Ted Lasso like.
For some reason this stuff still bothers me. I think watching Vic Morrow overzealously coach the Yankees left a lasting imprint on me. It also shows how little has changed in 50 years.
Obviously dad ego does play a role, but man some of those moms are brutal.
Obviously dad ego does play a role, but man some of those moms are brutal.
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...It's all Dad ego driven..
I’m dealing with this now. I’m one of the few dads at soccer practice, it’s mostly the moms and we’ve gotten close with a few over the years, very good friends actually but 1 in particular is just a nightmare to be around right now. I’ve had to pull back at practice / games, and also in our personal life not hanging out so much. She thinks her kid is the best player on the team (she isn’t) and is pissed about some of the changes our coach is making next fall and constantly talks about it. Her girl, like mine, isn’t even 8 yet and while athletic, is still very much learning the game. But you’d swear she’s getting ready for the USWNT tryouts next week.
That being said, if the travel team had a tryout and the 2 boys tried out for the u9 team, then their parents need to get over the lack of playing time and stay on u9. Unless the u8 team is low on numbers for a game and you need a sub.
Why is the assistant u9 coach an assistant u8 coach? Clearly his intentions for his kid have back fired. He probably gets an ear full from his wife before bed about "lack of playing time"
to me, the bigger issue is lack of development during practice for a travel team. And that is what your conversation with the coach should be about. B/c even if the kids get less game reps, as long as the practice reps are there, they will continue to get better and still enjoy their time on the team.
The original post is quite clear, my kid tried out and earned a spot and paid fro a spot on a travel team so now he can sit while someone develops a nine-year-old. It's bullshit and the fact that they played all the older kids against a bunch of 7-year-olds tells you all you need to know.
I've seen pitches with ruined arms by the age of twelve because their dads overworked them.
I'm very proud of my almost zero win lifetime winning percentage coaching hundreds or rec lacrosse games. (Developing program all new some rosters had 22 kids so I was playing them by stopwatch.) Most of the dads had no idea how lacrosse worked so I just told them to sit down and shut up and let their kids learn the game and support each other. Pre Lasso Ted Lasso like.
For some reason this stuff still bothers me. I think watching Vic Morrow overzealously coach the Yankees left a lasting imprint on me. It also shows how little has changed in 50 years.
That is really the thing. I do not coach travel, but I have coached rec teams for my kids and I always tell them that winning is a result and if that is the only goal then you won't win very much. The effort toward winning is everything and if you do that, you have won. You will always find a more talented team and there is nothing you can do about that other than dig down, try your hardest, and if you get a few breaks and win great. If you don't, but you gave that effort toward winning, you are a winner no matter the final score.
Youth Sports whether travel or rec should always be about
1. development of skills
2. effort toward winning
3. teammates and bonding with teammates
results are very secondary and if you concentrate on the top 3 they will take care of themselves.
Obviously dad ego does play a role, but man some of those moms are brutal.
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...It's all Dad ego driven..
The absolute worst behavior I have seen have been from mothers. I have seen dads do embarrassing shit (mostly arguing with umps and refs), but sports mothers can be vipers...
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about wins, losses, and stats for 8 and 9 year-olds. Kids that age wouldn't care but their parents beat it into them about winning and losing. In a team sport especially when you lose it's easy to blame the kid who made the mistake, gave up the homerun, dropped the ball, struck out, etc. It's all Dad ego driven.
The original post is quite clear, my kid tried out and earned a spot and paid fro a spot on a travel team so now he can sit while someone develops a nine-year-old. It's bullshit and the fact that they played all the older kids against a bunch of 7-year-olds tells you all you need to know.
I've seen pitches with ruined arms by the age of twelve because their dads overworked them.
I'm very proud of my almost zero win lifetime winning percentage coaching hundreds or rec lacrosse games. (Developing program all new some rosters had 22 kids so I was playing them by stopwatch.) Most of the dads had no idea how lacrosse worked so I just told them to sit down and shut up and let their kids learn the game and support each other. Pre Lasso Ted Lasso like.
For some reason this stuff still bothers me. I think watching Vic Morrow overzealously coach the Yankees left a lasting imprint on me. It also shows how little has changed in 50 years.
That is really the thing. I do not coach travel, but I have coached rec teams for my kids and I always tell them that winning is a result and if that is the only goal then you won't win very much. The effort toward winning is everything and if you do that, you have won. You will always find a more talented team and there is nothing you can do about that other than dig down, try your hardest, and if you get a few breaks and win great. If you don't, but you gave that effort toward winning, you are a winner no matter the final score.
Youth Sports whether travel or rec should always be about
1. development of skills
2. effort toward winning
3. teammates and bonding with teammates
results are very secondary and if you concentrate on the top 3 they will take care of themselves.
You are on the money with that. Unfortunately most of the people that sign up for coaching are hardo dads or someone that doesn't understand sports and just puts their own kids first at all times and think winning is success.
When I coached my daughters softball teams I would have a batting order done alphabetically and changed every game. So if you hit first one game you would hit 2nd the next game and whoever hit last would hit first the next game. Also kept them engaged by having them rotate counter clockwise in the field every inning so they were engaged in the action at some point. Never lost a game. Even beat the travel teams that would sign up for the rec leagues too.
When I have friends of young kids tell me their kids didn't like baseball or softball I usually can guess that some coach put them in the outfield where the ball isn't hit much at that age. It's a shame how adults ruin sports.
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In comment 16126697 oghwga said:
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about wins, losses, and stats for 8 and 9 year-olds. Kids that age wouldn't care but their parents beat it into them about winning and losing. In a team sport especially when you lose it's easy to blame the kid who made the mistake, gave up the homerun, dropped the ball, struck out, etc. It's all Dad ego driven.
The original post is quite clear, my kid tried out and earned a spot and paid fro a spot on a travel team so now he can sit while someone develops a nine-year-old. It's bullshit and the fact that they played all the older kids against a bunch of 7-year-olds tells you all you need to know.
I've seen pitches with ruined arms by the age of twelve because their dads overworked them.
I'm very proud of my almost zero win lifetime winning percentage coaching hundreds or rec lacrosse games. (Developing program all new some rosters had 22 kids so I was playing them by stopwatch.) Most of the dads had no idea how lacrosse worked so I just told them to sit down and shut up and let their kids learn the game and support each other. Pre Lasso Ted Lasso like.
For some reason this stuff still bothers me. I think watching Vic Morrow overzealously coach the Yankees left a lasting imprint on me. It also shows how little has changed in 50 years.
That is really the thing. I do not coach travel, but I have coached rec teams for my kids and I always tell them that winning is a result and if that is the only goal then you won't win very much. The effort toward winning is everything and if you do that, you have won. You will always find a more talented team and there is nothing you can do about that other than dig down, try your hardest, and if you get a few breaks and win great. If you don't, but you gave that effort toward winning, you are a winner no matter the final score.
Youth Sports whether travel or rec should always be about
1. development of skills
2. effort toward winning
3. teammates and bonding with teammates
results are very secondary and if you concentrate on the top 3 they will take care of themselves.
You are on the money with that. Unfortunately most of the people that sign up for coaching are hardo dads or someone that doesn't understand sports and just puts their own kids first at all times and think winning is success.
When I coached my daughters softball teams I would have a batting order done alphabetically and changed every game. So if you hit first one game you would hit 2nd the next game and whoever hit last would hit first the next game. Also kept them engaged by having them rotate counter clockwise in the field every inning so they were engaged in the action at some point. Never lost a game. Even beat the travel teams that would sign up for the rec leagues too.
When I have friends of young kids tell me their kids didn't like baseball or softball I usually can guess that some coach put them in the outfield where the ball isn't hit much at that age. It's a shame how adults ruin sports.
The irony is that people believe you are either a parent who doesn't want to win or doesn't emphasize having fun and that it is an either/or box. I always say why can't we have both. But, if you lose site of the process of winning, which is the three steps I discussed above, then you really are not really setting yourself up to win consistently. When you have a travel team such as my kids 8U team where all the kids are generally very good, the difference between the best 3B and the 3rd String 3B is not much. But if the 3 string 3B doesn't get the reps, he falls behind, becomes disinterested etc. I understand all teams are not like my son's travel team in terms of talent, but the coach on my son's 8U team plays the IF first string players the entire way except if one of them is pitching and will only do substitutions in the OF. It is a terrible way to do it at 8u that serves nobody's interests and hardly even advances winning (because as I said the difference between the best and the third string is miniscule so that over the course of six inning game maybe it would contribute to one additional error--which is another story many of these hardo youth sport coaches are not very bright to begin with and do not understand nuanced concepts).
My kids all played sports from the time they were old enough to walk until college. My youngest will probably play in college.
I do think parents *can* ruin youth sports for kids by living vicariously through them or putting too much pressure on them or even too much emphasis on the wrong things, but I think that's the exception.
I would say (in my anecdotal experience) the overwhelming majority of kids have their lives enriched by youth sports and it's due in major part to their parents and coaches. For some kids it does become a nightmare but I think it's a smal percentage.
The way I handled it is I took my cues from my kids.
Almost every sport I believe has level of competitiveness and normally with the more competitiveness comes higher fees.
So if my kids came to me and said they wanted to try out for club teams we did, it was never my decision. I may have let them know what options they had and if they asked my advice I gave it, but they basically controlled their activity.
My only rule was they couldn't quit anything. They didn't have to do a season 2 or 3 or whatever, but once they signed up and tried out they made a commitment.
And while the athletic part of sports was a bonus, I think the teamwork, confidence, social skills, life lessons, etc. were far more valuable than the athletics.
Anyway, long way of saying I don't think youth sports are ruined and for every nightmare story there are hundreds of successes and good experiences. IMO.
And you want to hear the real nightmare that is 100% coaches/parent driven it's "tryout season" for club teams that might be the most negative aspect of youth sports (outside of safe sport violations) and again it has little impact on the kids. that is the main place I see adult/ego driven decisions being made.
On an unrelated note, I always seem to miss the get-togethers with the rest of the parents. The date of said get-togthers always seems to be incorrect by a day when I receive them.