he deserves a top ten spot. That was the catalyst behind his 2022 performance. He is a legit two-way threat.
If you analyze Jones purely as a thrower, that's where the conversation changes. And you move him down closer to 15.
Running is a big part of his game and makes him a weapon from the QB spot. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind take that part of his game away in an honest analysis of the position? That’s like evaluating RBs and saying Christian McCaffrey is top 10 if we count his receiving production but wouldn’t be if we evaluate only his carries and forget his receptions. That’s not how it works. Unless you have an agenda and just have to try to put an asterisk on a player you thought sucked
I'm not discounting the running piece. I simply suggested if someone wanted to rank QBs purely as passers, that changes the dynamics where Jones would be ranked.
he deserves a top ten spot. That was the catalyst behind his 2022 performance. He is a legit two-way threat.
If you analyze Jones purely as a thrower, that's where the conversation changes. And you move him down closer to 15.
Running is a big part of his game and makes him a weapon from the QB spot. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind take that part of his game away in an honest analysis of the position? That’s like evaluating RBs and saying Christian McCaffrey is top 10 if we count his receiving production but wouldn’t be if we evaluate only his carries and forget his receptions. That’s not how it works. Unless you have an agenda and just have to try to put an asterisk on a player you thought sucked
I'm not discounting the running piece. I simply suggested if someone wanted to rank QBs purely as passers, that changes the dynamics where Jones would be ranked.
I agree with your point here, but I think Jones is a better passer than you are giving him credit for.
Hold onto your seats, but ultimately Jones succeeded much like former BBIer GoTerps said he wanted the Giants to use him: in a quick single read passing game and showcasing Jones as a runner.
Hold onto your seats, but ultimately Jones succeeded much like former BBIer GoTerps said he wanted the Giants to use him: in a quick single read passing game and showcasing Jones as a runner.
Yes, but his reasoning was that Jones was an idiot that couldn't process anything or throw a decent pass. He did not give any credence to the fact that terrible coaching, piss poor OL and lack of offensive weapons had anything to do with the offense (or Jones specifically) struggling.
Hold onto your seats, but ultimately Jones succeeded much like former BBIer GoTerps said he wanted the Giants to use him: in a quick single read passing game and showcasing Jones as a runner.
Yes, but his reasoning was that Jones was an idiot that couldn't process anything or throw a decent pass. He did not give any credence to the fact that terrible coaching, piss poor OL and lack of offensive weapons had anything to do with the offense (or Jones specifically) struggling.
100% correct. Terps was wrong about Jones; flat out.
Hold onto your seats, but ultimately Jones succeeded much like former BBIer GoTerps said he wanted the Giants to use him: in a quick single read passing game and showcasing Jones as a runner.
Terps also said Jones would not ever get a second contract from the Giants and that he was never so sure of anything in his life…
Hold onto your seats, but ultimately Jones succeeded much like former BBIer GoTerps said he wanted the Giants to use him: in a quick single read passing game and showcasing Jones as a runner.
He didn’t want the giants to use him at all. He carpet-bombed this site with his opinion he was not a professional player and they could only succeed after he was gone. Come on.
Hold onto your seats, but ultimately Jones succeeded much like former BBIer GoTerps said he wanted the Giants to use him: in a quick single read passing game and showcasing Jones as a runner.
This single read talk is pure nonsense. And everyone wanted DJ to run more. Judge was just a chicken shit clown.
The Giants do NOT run a single read offense. Matter of fact just about every team doesn't run a single read offense, except for maybe the Browns when Mayfield was there.
in thinking Jones should be featured more as a runner - what a unique take that was solely his, lol.
That's a bizarre conclusion. Who said that?
That’s how your post reads, why else bring him up? His legend on this site is that of a unique mind who’s near infallible. In reality he was dead wrong on Jones (and a bunch of other players).
Hold onto your seats, but ultimately Jones succeeded much like former BBIer GoTerps said he wanted the Giants to use him: in a quick single read passing game and showcasing Jones as a runner.
This single read talk is pure nonsense. And everyone wanted DJ to run more. Judge was just a chicken shit clown.
The Giants do NOT run a single read offense. Matter of fact just about every team doesn't run a single read offense, except for maybe the Browns when Mayfield was there.
Bingo. I don't know what is worse - trying to bend over backwards to say a guy who went as far to say Jones wasn't even a good QB in HS and that resigning him would be an IQ test only a moron could fail was right or that any NFL team runs a one-read offense.
But can't wait to see a lecture about others football acumen.
in thinking Jones should be featured more as a runner - what a unique take that was solely his, lol.
That's a bizarre conclusion. Who said that?
That’s how your post reads, why else bring him up? His legend on this site is that of a unique mind who’s near infallible. In reality he was dead wrong on Jones (and a bunch of other players).
I think a lot of people wanted Jones to run more and get rid of the ball more quickly, not just Go Terps.
I think Go Terps meant it as an insult, and I think it's funny it turned out adopting that style of play is what cemented Jones as a legitimate threat and earned him a nice extension.
I'll take this moment to say hello and sorry to our infrequent sage FMiC. I shouldn't have said literally single read. That was an unnecessary exaggeration.
A more accurate assessment is probably the Giants wanted Jones to consider running if the first read wasn't there. As Brandon Graham described.
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"Just taking away that first read because we knew they wanted to take us out of the game by getting away quick throws and by him extending the play with his legs,” Eagles defensive end Brandon Graham said after. “When you look at [Bills quarterback] Josh Allen and you see the system that he runs, it’s similar to what [the Giants] run; the same thing. We just played off that. Take away his first [read] and get him to move around. We gave ourselves a chance to put pressure on him. I think it’s a credit to [Eagles Defensive Coordinator Jonathan Gannon] and the coaches.”
But its also because he didnt really have much to throw at and the Eagles front 7 destroyed our OL. HE had a look at Hodgins, Bellinger and then... Richie James. He didnt have any time to let Slayton get open.
Swap in Waller, Campbell and even Crowder/Wandale and all of a sudden those quick strikes loosen up the defense. More first downs happen and the D gets gassed.
BG has always had a big mouth, but I think he is overrating what his D had to deal with. Sure, they were still a great unit. But lets not make it like they played against an offense that had all of its horses. Not one single week 1 starter started that playoff and even the week one guys were noting to sing about.
God I hope we fuck them up at least once this year.
Graham had the benefit of playing against a really weak offense
For 3 years he called him garbage..Not even a worthy back-up and the sooner he was off the Giants the better it would be. He inundated us every fucking day on virtually every fucking thread that you couldn’t even scroll past his idiotic posts without some blatant bullshit catching your eye.
He doesn’t even possess a modicum of class to come on here and admit he was 100% wrong about DJ..
Gutless
RE: Please stop with giving Terps ANYcredit for ANYTHING Jones.
For 3 years he called him garbage..Not even a worthy back-up and the sooner he was off the Giants the better it would be. He inundated us every fucking day on virtually every fucking thread that you couldn’t even scroll past his idiotic posts without some blatant bullshit catching your eye.
He doesn’t even possess a modicum of class to come on here and admit he was 100% wrong about DJ..
Gutless
Honestly, I forgot about that guy totally. The DJ hate train stopped so suddenly thatI didnt realize which of the old school posters fell off. Lol.
I do remember threads where as soon as I saw him post, I got out of the thread. But then it was on virtually every single thread and I had to not open the board for a few weeks. Definitely tiresome.
RE: Graham had the benefit of playing against a really weak offense
not sure how much if what he said matters, the talent gap was immense and they coasted.
I don't think the talent gap changes Jones's strengths last year were getting the ball out quickly and running the ball (all the data backs this up), and the Giants built the offense around that. You think that's not true?
and there was no one to account for other than Barkley. Not sure how you can still think the WRs didn’t matter either. It was easy to executive that gameplan because there really weren’t any threats. Better personnel changes everything.
RE: RE: Please stop with giving Terps ANYcredit for ANYTHING Jones.
For 3 years he called him garbage..Not even a worthy back-up and the sooner he was off the Giants the better it would be. He inundated us every fucking day on virtually every fucking thread that you couldn’t even scroll past his idiotic posts without some blatant bullshit catching your eye.
He doesn’t even possess a modicum of class to come on here and admit he was 100% wrong about DJ..
Gutless
Honestly, I forgot about that guy totally. The DJ hate train stopped so suddenly thatI didnt realize which of the old school posters fell off. Lol.
I do remember threads where as soon as I saw him post, I got out of the thread. But then it was on virtually every single thread and I had to not open the board for a few weeks. Definitely tiresome.
Nice to see you were able to overcome that crippling fear of posting so quickly. 🙄
But its also because he didnt really have much to throw at and the Eagles front 7 destroyed our OL. HE had a look at Hodgins, Bellinger and then... Richie James. He didnt have any time to let Slayton get open.
Swap in Waller, Campbell and even Crowder/Wandale and all of a sudden those quick strikes loosen up the defense. More first downs happen and the D gets gassed.
BG has always had a big mouth, but I think he is overrating what his D had to deal with. Sure, they were still a great unit. But lets not make it like they played against an offense that had all of its horses. Not one single week 1 starter started that playoff and even the week one guys were noting to sing about.
God I hope we fuck them up at least once this year.
Given the talent gap, being on the field at all on January 21 is a credit to Jones and every other Giant.
How would Joe Montana fared with no Taylor and Rice on a team with a crap line and historically bad run defense? How hard would that be to defensive game plan. 1) Take away Roger Craig. 2) See number one.
The Eagles still have more proven players and better depth. But with reasonable heath I think both games will be wars, and both in play for wins.
But its also because he didnt really have much to throw at and the Eagles front 7 destroyed our OL. HE had a look at Hodgins, Bellinger and then... Richie James. He didnt have any time to let Slayton get open.
Swap in Waller, Campbell and even Crowder/Wandale and all of a sudden those quick strikes loosen up the defense. More first downs happen and the D gets gassed.
BG has always had a big mouth, but I think he is overrating what his D had to deal with. Sure, they were still a great unit. But lets not make it like they played against an offense that had all of its horses. Not one single week 1 starter started that playoff and even the week one guys were noting to sing about.
God I hope we fuck them up at least once this year.
Given the talent gap, being on the field at all on January 21 is a credit to Jones and every other Giant.
How would Joe Montana fared with no Taylor and Rice on a team with a crap line and historically bad run defense? How hard would that be to defensive game plan. 1) Take away Roger Craig. 2) See number one.
The Eagles still have more proven players and better depth. But with reasonable heath I think both games will be wars, and both in play for wins.
It's a valid point. And I hope DJ becomes as overrated as Montana is.
I didn't bring up that Graham quote as a commentary on talent, it's simply an anecdote from an opponent supporting the view the Giants looked to pass quickly, and if it wasn't there have Jones take off.
The data fully supports this. Jones led the league in short passes, he was 2nd to last in the league in intended air yards per attempt (6.4 YPA).
Jones was 10th in the league in yards after catch to air yards ratio. He produce 1609 with his arm, the pass catchers produced 1596 with their legs. The pass game was get the ball to targets quickly and let them do the work.
And despite the running the language no one was ever open -- according ESPN advanced analytics, Jones was one of 3 QBs in the league with 3 receivers in the top 50 in open rate (Slayton was 18th, James was 24th, Hodgins was 34th). The Packers and Bengals were the only other teams with 3 pass catchers in the top 50.
Jones was third in the league in scrambles and 2nd in the league in scrambles to pass attempts ratio.
Of course the Giants needed to improve pass protection, of course the Giants needed to improve the talent in the pass catching group. I've never said anything to the contrary.
The question is if this is an offense designed around Jones's strengths, or a gimmick offense (as Lines of Scrimmage called it last week), designed in reaction to poor talent.
You know who led the league in yards produced after the catch by pass targets? Patrick Mahomes. You know who was one of the 2 QBs who scrambled more than Jones? Josh Allen. Who was tied for 2nd to last in air yards per attempt? Justin Herbert.
My money is on this being the Giants offense in 2023. I don't think Jones is going to transform into a pocket passer, routinely waiting for plays to develop. I think they'll continue to look to get the ball out short and quickly. I think they'll still look for Jones to use his legs.
I think with better pass pro, Jones will increase the number of deep shots he takes. And I think with the addition of Waller and Campbell, that YAC number will be above 2K yards.
but you are using that observation incorrectly IMO. We will still be a quick pass offense but we will have better personnel to execute (we hope) and in turn won’t be as easy to defend against. So Graham and co won’t be trying to stop Richie James anymore, and instead a few guys with 4.3/4.4 speed + a huge TE over the middle.
Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
his YAC was pitiful and the worst of his career. Some of that was scheme but he never broke anything, which good players do regardless of scheme. In sum, he didn’t scare anyone and never a threat to take it the distance.
Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Jones did everything he was asked and more. He wasn't asked to throw downfield much for all the obvious reasons. But was excellent when he did. Daniel Jones was among NFL's best deep ball passers in 2022 - ( New Window )
What are the things he did he wasn't asked to do? I'm not sure what that means.
Re: James, he insanely reliable. And the Giants spent ~4X more money to get Campbell presumably because they feel he has untapped potential. Even if that comes at the risk of being less dependable.
but when theirs no upside than the potential is capped. I’m not shitting on James, I’m just refuting the notion that our personnel wasn’t the reason why our quick hitting offense didn’t work against Philly. Between the overwhelmed OL and lack of game breaking ability at WR/TE, we simply weren’t threatening and very easy to defend.
but when theirs no upside than the potential is capped. I’m not shitting on James, I’m just refuting the notion that our personnel wasn’t the reason why our quick hitting offense didn’t work against Philly. Between the overwhelmed OL and lack of game breaking ability at WR/TE, we simply weren’t threatening and very easy to defend.
Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Jones did everything he was asked and more. He wasn't asked to throw downfield much for all the obvious reasons. But was excellent when he did. Daniel Jones was among NFL's best deep ball passers in 2022 - ( New Window )
What are the things he did he wasn't asked to do? I'm not sure what that means.
Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Jones did everything he was asked and more. He wasn't asked to throw downfield much for all the obvious reasons. But was excellent when he did. Daniel Jones was among NFL's best deep ball passers in 2022 - ( New Window )
What are the things he did he wasn't asked to do? I'm not sure what that means.
Throw downfield, as you said.
Is that to suggest that his downfield throws, few though they may have been, were rogue and outside of Daboll & Kafka's plan?
Otherwise, I'd say it falls under the category of "definitely something that DJ was asked to do when he did it."
Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Jones did everything he was asked and more. He wasn't asked to throw downfield much for all the obvious reasons. But was excellent when he did. Daniel Jones was among NFL's best deep ball passers in 2022 - ( New Window )
What are the things he did he wasn't asked to do? I'm not sure what that means.
Throw downfield, as you said.
Is that to suggest that his downfield throws, few though they may have been, were rogue and outside of Daboll & Kafka's plan?
Otherwise, I'd say it falls under the category of "definitely something that DJ was asked to do when he did it."
While he rarely threw downfield, when asked, he did it well. I have no way to know but I doubt he made many if any "rogue" throws. Downfield throws just weren't our bag last season.
I suspect downfield throws just aren't the Giants bag. Certainly not in the way I think Garrett envisioned big bodied targets eating real estate before the catch. That's the modern take from the Coryell disciples. That's why the Giants wanted Golladay, he was the ultimate yards before catch WR.
I suspect Daboll/Kafka want to get the ball in the hands of the targets as many times as possible and rely on them to get the yards.
Waller fits this profile perfectly. He's a killer YAC weapon. It's also an area where Slayton got a lot better at last year.
While he rarely threw downfield, when asked, he did it well. I have no way to know but I doubt he made many if any "rogue" throws. Downfield throws just weren't our bag last season.
Right, so wouldn't it be fair to say that "DJ did everything asked of him" and just leave the "and more" off the end?
But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
Campbell's skills more than support why he was a second-round pick in 2019. The ability jumped off the screen when he was playing at Wide Receiver U. If he's healthy, it's time for him to live up to his potential.
BTW, just think about the receivers taken after Campbell in 2019 - Terry McLaurin, DK Metcalf, and Diontae Johnson. That was a very good draft for WRs taken in the first round. The aforementioned, and guys like Deebo, Hardman, AJ Brown.
But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
Campbell's skills more than support why he was a second-round pick in 2019. The ability jumped off the screen when he was playing at Wide Receiver U. If he's healthy, it's time for him to live up to his potential.
BTW, just think about the receivers taken after Campbell in 2019 - Terry McLaurin, DK Metcalf, and Diontae Johnson. That was a very good draft for WRs taken in the first round. The aforementioned, and guys like Deebo, Hardman, AJ Brown.
Nailed it. His OSU highlights show amazing explosiveness, shiftiness and nice hands. He could be the team's highlight reel on his own. But his Indy highlights don't even look like highlights. Not surprising given the dreck they've had at QB during Campbells time.
Maybe the pollyanna is coming out, but my spidey sense tells me Campbell is going to be a monster (if he's healthy). He has all the pieces to live up to his potential here including coaches who know how to leverage his talent.
But like your Pollyanna antenna suggests, if he start answering them, and start to live up to his pre-draft billing, there is a lot to like...
Looking at his Indy stats, his 5.5 air yard average stands out like a sore thumb. Less (significantly less) than all the receivers ranked above him (stat-wise) and far less even than our 22 receivers. Slayton's was 10; Hodgins 8. Makes no sense to me -- it's like they only threw him hitches and quick outs.
But like your Pollyanna antenna suggests, if he starts answering them, and starts to live up to his pre-draft billing, there is a lot to like...
Looking at his Indy stats, his 5.5 air yard average stands out like a sore thumb. Less (significantly less) than all the receivers ranked above him (stat-wise) and far less even than our 22 receivers. Slayton's was 10; Hodgins 8. Makes no sense to me -- it's like they only threw him hitches and quick outs.
It's so hard to evaluate Campbell's NFL career so far with the injuries in his first three years and last year playing with a washed-up, rag arm Matt Ryan and check-down Sam Ehlinger.
Even Pittman took a step back in YPC in 2022.
Hopefully, a change of scenery is what Campbell needs.
But like your Pollyanna antenna suggests, if he starts answering them, and starts to live up to his pre-draft billing, there is a lot to like...
Looking at his Indy stats, his 5.5 air yard average stands out like a sore thumb. Less (significantly less) than all the receivers ranked above him (stat-wise) and far less even than our 22 receivers. Slayton's was 10; Hodgins 8. Makes no sense to me -- it's like they only threw him hitches and quick outs.
It's so hard to evaluate Campbell's NFL career so far with the injuries in his first three years and last year playing with a washed-up, rag arm Matt Ryan and check-down Sam Ehlinger.
Even Pittman took a step back in YPC in 2022.
Hopefully, a change of scenery is what Campbell needs.
Yup.
What's your bw-sense tell you BBI will be saying about Campbell in January?
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he deserves a top ten spot. That was the catalyst behind his 2022 performance. He is a legit two-way threat.
If you analyze Jones purely as a thrower, that's where the conversation changes. And you move him down closer to 15.
Running is a big part of his game and makes him a weapon from the QB spot. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind take that part of his game away in an honest analysis of the position? That’s like evaluating RBs and saying Christian McCaffrey is top 10 if we count his receiving production but wouldn’t be if we evaluate only his carries and forget his receptions. That’s not how it works. Unless you have an agenda and just have to try to put an asterisk on a player you thought sucked
I'm not discounting the running piece. I simply suggested if someone wanted to rank QBs purely as passers, that changes the dynamics where Jones would be ranked.
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In comment 16127661 bw in dc said:
Quote:
he deserves a top ten spot. That was the catalyst behind his 2022 performance. He is a legit two-way threat.
If you analyze Jones purely as a thrower, that's where the conversation changes. And you move him down closer to 15.
Running is a big part of his game and makes him a weapon from the QB spot. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind take that part of his game away in an honest analysis of the position? That’s like evaluating RBs and saying Christian McCaffrey is top 10 if we count his receiving production but wouldn’t be if we evaluate only his carries and forget his receptions. That’s not how it works. Unless you have an agenda and just have to try to put an asterisk on a player you thought sucked
I'm not discounting the running piece. I simply suggested if someone wanted to rank QBs purely as passers, that changes the dynamics where Jones would be ranked.
I agree with your point here, but I think Jones is a better passer than you are giving him credit for.
Why?
Yes, but his reasoning was that Jones was an idiot that couldn't process anything or throw a decent pass. He did not give any credence to the fact that terrible coaching, piss poor OL and lack of offensive weapons had anything to do with the offense (or Jones specifically) struggling.
Quote:
Hold onto your seats, but ultimately Jones succeeded much like former BBIer GoTerps said he wanted the Giants to use him: in a quick single read passing game and showcasing Jones as a runner.
Yes, but his reasoning was that Jones was an idiot that couldn't process anything or throw a decent pass. He did not give any credence to the fact that terrible coaching, piss poor OL and lack of offensive weapons had anything to do with the offense (or Jones specifically) struggling.
100% correct. Terps was wrong about Jones; flat out.
Terps also said Jones would not ever get a second contract from the Giants and that he was never so sure of anything in his life…
Terps was ahead of his time!
He didn’t want the giants to use him at all. He carpet-bombed this site with his opinion he was not a professional player and they could only succeed after he was gone. Come on.
That's a bizarre conclusion. Who said that?
This single read talk is pure nonsense. And everyone wanted DJ to run more. Judge was just a chicken shit clown.
The Giants do NOT run a single read offense. Matter of fact just about every team doesn't run a single read offense, except for maybe the Browns when Mayfield was there.
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in thinking Jones should be featured more as a runner - what a unique take that was solely his, lol.
That's a bizarre conclusion. Who said that?
That’s how your post reads, why else bring him up? His legend on this site is that of a unique mind who’s near infallible. In reality he was dead wrong on Jones (and a bunch of other players).
Quote:
Hold onto your seats, but ultimately Jones succeeded much like former BBIer GoTerps said he wanted the Giants to use him: in a quick single read passing game and showcasing Jones as a runner.
This single read talk is pure nonsense. And everyone wanted DJ to run more. Judge was just a chicken shit clown.
The Giants do NOT run a single read offense. Matter of fact just about every team doesn't run a single read offense, except for maybe the Browns when Mayfield was there.
Bingo. I don't know what is worse - trying to bend over backwards to say a guy who went as far to say Jones wasn't even a good QB in HS and that resigning him would be an IQ test only a moron could fail was right or that any NFL team runs a one-read offense.
But can't wait to see a lecture about others football acumen.
Sheesh.
Quote:
In comment 16127837 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
in thinking Jones should be featured more as a runner - what a unique take that was solely his, lol.
That's a bizarre conclusion. Who said that?
That’s how your post reads, why else bring him up? His legend on this site is that of a unique mind who’s near infallible. In reality he was dead wrong on Jones (and a bunch of other players).
I think a lot of people wanted Jones to run more and get rid of the ball more quickly, not just Go Terps.
I think Go Terps meant it as an insult, and I think it's funny it turned out adopting that style of play is what cemented Jones as a legitimate threat and earned him a nice extension.
I'll take this moment to say hello and sorry to our infrequent sage FMiC. I shouldn't have said literally single read. That was an unnecessary exaggeration.
A more accurate assessment is probably the Giants wanted Jones to consider running if the first read wasn't there. As Brandon Graham described.
Swap in Waller, Campbell and even Crowder/Wandale and all of a sudden those quick strikes loosen up the defense. More first downs happen and the D gets gassed.
BG has always had a big mouth, but I think he is overrating what his D had to deal with. Sure, they were still a great unit. But lets not make it like they played against an offense that had all of its horses. Not one single week 1 starter started that playoff and even the week one guys were noting to sing about.
God I hope we fuck them up at least once this year.
He doesn’t even possess a modicum of class to come on here and admit he was 100% wrong about DJ..
Gutless
He doesn’t even possess a modicum of class to come on here and admit he was 100% wrong about DJ..
Gutless
Honestly, I forgot about that guy totally. The DJ hate train stopped so suddenly thatI didnt realize which of the old school posters fell off. Lol.
I do remember threads where as soon as I saw him post, I got out of the thread. But then it was on virtually every single thread and I had to not open the board for a few weeks. Definitely tiresome.
I don't think the talent gap changes Jones's strengths last year were getting the ball out quickly and running the ball (all the data backs this up), and the Giants built the offense around that. You think that's not true?
Quote:
For 3 years he called him garbage..Not even a worthy back-up and the sooner he was off the Giants the better it would be. He inundated us every fucking day on virtually every fucking thread that you couldn’t even scroll past his idiotic posts without some blatant bullshit catching your eye.
He doesn’t even possess a modicum of class to come on here and admit he was 100% wrong about DJ..
Gutless
Honestly, I forgot about that guy totally. The DJ hate train stopped so suddenly thatI didnt realize which of the old school posters fell off. Lol.
I do remember threads where as soon as I saw him post, I got out of the thread. But then it was on virtually every single thread and I had to not open the board for a few weeks. Definitely tiresome.
Nice to see you were able to overcome that crippling fear of posting so quickly. 🙄
Swap in Waller, Campbell and even Crowder/Wandale and all of a sudden those quick strikes loosen up the defense. More first downs happen and the D gets gassed.
BG has always had a big mouth, but I think he is overrating what his D had to deal with. Sure, they were still a great unit. But lets not make it like they played against an offense that had all of its horses. Not one single week 1 starter started that playoff and even the week one guys were noting to sing about.
God I hope we fuck them up at least once this year.
Given the talent gap, being on the field at all on January 21 is a credit to Jones and every other Giant.
How would Joe Montana fared with no Taylor and Rice on a team with a crap line and historically bad run defense? How hard would that be to defensive game plan. 1) Take away Roger Craig. 2) See number one.
The Eagles still have more proven players and better depth. But with reasonable heath I think both games will be wars, and both in play for wins.
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But its also because he didnt really have much to throw at and the Eagles front 7 destroyed our OL. HE had a look at Hodgins, Bellinger and then... Richie James. He didnt have any time to let Slayton get open.
Swap in Waller, Campbell and even Crowder/Wandale and all of a sudden those quick strikes loosen up the defense. More first downs happen and the D gets gassed.
BG has always had a big mouth, but I think he is overrating what his D had to deal with. Sure, they were still a great unit. But lets not make it like they played against an offense that had all of its horses. Not one single week 1 starter started that playoff and even the week one guys were noting to sing about.
God I hope we fuck them up at least once this year.
Given the talent gap, being on the field at all on January 21 is a credit to Jones and every other Giant.
How would Joe Montana fared with no Taylor and Rice on a team with a crap line and historically bad run defense? How hard would that be to defensive game plan. 1) Take away Roger Craig. 2) See number one.
The Eagles still have more proven players and better depth. But with reasonable heath I think both games will be wars, and both in play for wins.
It's a valid point. And I hope DJ becomes as overrated as Montana is.
The data fully supports this. Jones led the league in short passes, he was 2nd to last in the league in intended air yards per attempt (6.4 YPA).
Jones was 10th in the league in yards after catch to air yards ratio. He produce 1609 with his arm, the pass catchers produced 1596 with their legs. The pass game was get the ball to targets quickly and let them do the work.
And despite the running the language no one was ever open -- according ESPN advanced analytics, Jones was one of 3 QBs in the league with 3 receivers in the top 50 in open rate (Slayton was 18th, James was 24th, Hodgins was 34th). The Packers and Bengals were the only other teams with 3 pass catchers in the top 50.
Jones was third in the league in scrambles and 2nd in the league in scrambles to pass attempts ratio.
Of course the Giants needed to improve pass protection, of course the Giants needed to improve the talent in the pass catching group. I've never said anything to the contrary.
The question is if this is an offense designed around Jones's strengths, or a gimmick offense (as Lines of Scrimmage called it last week), designed in reaction to poor talent.
You know who led the league in yards produced after the catch by pass targets? Patrick Mahomes. You know who was one of the 2 QBs who scrambled more than Jones? Josh Allen. Who was tied for 2nd to last in air yards per attempt? Justin Herbert.
My money is on this being the Giants offense in 2023. I don't think Jones is going to transform into a pocket passer, routinely waiting for plays to develop. I think they'll continue to look to get the ball out short and quickly. I think they'll still look for Jones to use his legs.
I think with better pass pro, Jones will increase the number of deep shots he takes. And I think with the addition of Waller and Campbell, that YAC number will be above 2K yards.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Jones did everything he was asked and more. He wasn't asked to throw downfield much for all the obvious reasons. But was excellent when he did.
Daniel Jones was among NFL's best deep ball passers in 2022 - ( New Window )
Richie James was NFL's most reliable receiver in 2022 - ( New Window )
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Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Jones did everything he was asked and more. He wasn't asked to throw downfield much for all the obvious reasons. But was excellent when he did. Daniel Jones was among NFL's best deep ball passers in 2022 - ( New Window )
What are the things he did he wasn't asked to do? I'm not sure what that means.
I think everyone agrees with you, no?
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In comment 16129825 christian said:
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Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Jones did everything he was asked and more. He wasn't asked to throw downfield much for all the obvious reasons. But was excellent when he did. Daniel Jones was among NFL's best deep ball passers in 2022 - ( New Window )
What are the things he did he wasn't asked to do? I'm not sure what that means.
Throw downfield, as you said.
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In comment 16129882 HBart said:
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In comment 16129825 christian said:
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Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Jones did everything he was asked and more. He wasn't asked to throw downfield much for all the obvious reasons. But was excellent when he did. Daniel Jones was among NFL's best deep ball passers in 2022 - ( New Window )
What are the things he did he wasn't asked to do? I'm not sure what that means.
Throw downfield, as you said.
Is that to suggest that his downfield throws, few though they may have been, were rogue and outside of Daboll & Kafka's plan?
Otherwise, I'd say it falls under the category of "definitely something that DJ was asked to do when he did it."
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In comment 16129896 christian said:
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In comment 16129882 HBart said:
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In comment 16129825 christian said:
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Richie James is pretty fast, he's a legit 4.4 guy. But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
The other obvious upgrade is Waller. But along the same lines, in his 2 monster years he did a lot of his damage with his leagues. He had 570+ YAC in both 2019 and 2020, compared to 575 and 624 air yards.
Jones did everything he was asked and more. He wasn't asked to throw downfield much for all the obvious reasons. But was excellent when he did. Daniel Jones was among NFL's best deep ball passers in 2022 - ( New Window )
What are the things he did he wasn't asked to do? I'm not sure what that means.
Throw downfield, as you said.
Is that to suggest that his downfield throws, few though they may have been, were rogue and outside of Daboll & Kafka's plan?
Otherwise, I'd say it falls under the category of "definitely something that DJ was asked to do when he did it."
While he rarely threw downfield, when asked, he did it well. I have no way to know but I doubt he made many if any "rogue" throws. Downfield throws just weren't our bag last season.
I suspect Daboll/Kafka want to get the ball in the hands of the targets as many times as possible and rely on them to get the yards.
Waller fits this profile perfectly. He's a killer YAC weapon. It's also an area where Slayton got a lot better at last year.
Right, so wouldn't it be fair to say that "DJ did everything asked of him" and just leave the "and more" off the end?
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
Campbell's skills more than support why he was a second-round pick in 2019. The ability jumped off the screen when he was playing at Wide Receiver U. If he's healthy, it's time for him to live up to his potential.
BTW, just think about the receivers taken after Campbell in 2019 - Terry McLaurin, DK Metcalf, and Diontae Johnson. That was a very good draft for WRs taken in the first round. The aforementioned, and guys like Deebo, Hardman, AJ Brown.
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But Campbell is one of the fastest players in the NFL, and to my eyes is a smoother in the transition from catch > run.
I think he's the dark horse big upgrade. If he's healthy I think he's an X factor type of player.
Campbell's skills more than support why he was a second-round pick in 2019. The ability jumped off the screen when he was playing at Wide Receiver U. If he's healthy, it's time for him to live up to his potential.
BTW, just think about the receivers taken after Campbell in 2019 - Terry McLaurin, DK Metcalf, and Diontae Johnson. That was a very good draft for WRs taken in the first round. The aforementioned, and guys like Deebo, Hardman, AJ Brown.
Nailed it. His OSU highlights show amazing explosiveness, shiftiness and nice hands. He could be the team's highlight reel on his own. But his Indy highlights don't even look like highlights. Not surprising given the dreck they've had at QB during Campbells time.
Maybe the pollyanna is coming out, but my spidey sense tells me Campbell is going to be a monster (if he's healthy). He has all the pieces to live up to his potential here including coaches who know how to leverage his talent.
But like your Pollyanna antenna suggests, if he start answering them, and start to live up to his pre-draft billing, there is a lot to like...
But like your Pollyanna antenna suggests, if he start answering them, and start to live up to his pre-draft billing, there is a lot to like...
Looking at his Indy stats, his 5.5 air yard average stands out like a sore thumb. Less (significantly less) than all the receivers ranked above him (stat-wise) and far less even than our 22 receivers. Slayton's was 10; Hodgins 8. Makes no sense to me -- it's like they only threw him hitches and quick outs.
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Campbell is full of question marks.
But like your Pollyanna antenna suggests, if he starts answering them, and starts to live up to his pre-draft billing, there is a lot to like...
Looking at his Indy stats, his 5.5 air yard average stands out like a sore thumb. Less (significantly less) than all the receivers ranked above him (stat-wise) and far less even than our 22 receivers. Slayton's was 10; Hodgins 8. Makes no sense to me -- it's like they only threw him hitches and quick outs.
It's so hard to evaluate Campbell's NFL career so far with the injuries in his first three years and last year playing with a washed-up, rag arm Matt Ryan and check-down Sam Ehlinger.
Even Pittman took a step back in YPC in 2022.
Hopefully, a change of scenery is what Campbell needs.
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In comment 16130167 bw in dc said:
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Campbell is full of question marks.
But like your Pollyanna antenna suggests, if he starts answering them, and starts to live up to his pre-draft billing, there is a lot to like...
Looking at his Indy stats, his 5.5 air yard average stands out like a sore thumb. Less (significantly less) than all the receivers ranked above him (stat-wise) and far less even than our 22 receivers. Slayton's was 10; Hodgins 8. Makes no sense to me -- it's like they only threw him hitches and quick outs.
It's so hard to evaluate Campbell's NFL career so far with the injuries in his first three years and last year playing with a washed-up, rag arm Matt Ryan and check-down Sam Ehlinger.
Even Pittman took a step back in YPC in 2022.
Hopefully, a change of scenery is what Campbell needs.
Yup.
What's your bw-sense tell you BBI will be saying about Campbell in January?
Yup.
What's your bw-sense tell you BBI will be saying about Campbell in January?
One of two outcomes...
1) Now we know why the Colts lost interest.
2) This staff knows how to identify undervalued assets and get them to fit into their system.