Improvement at center....will impact both guards.....
Any Improvement with Neal.....has ramifications across the line.
I contend....a 2nd season playing as a group....and I am including the entire OL room...as the backups....ideally should have little impact on overall play of the line.
Thomas is irreplaceable.....as only star.
Neal and JMS are potential stars....and any jump would make a massive impact on the OL
Everything should gel better.....consistent coaching matters.
I keep going back....stopping the coaching turnstile was the key to rebuild.
It would be a huge disappointment if this OL isn't vastly improved
the big issue to start the season is finding a reliable LG. If everything falls into place, the big issue by the end of the season will be finding someone to push Glowinski off the 2024 roster at RG.
There are plenty of candidates for RG but no obvious “leader in the clubhouse”. Bredeson may be the best prospect but that depends on someone beating him out for LG.
This is a pretty fair breakdown of the ceiling and floor
But whats really missing is what is reasonable to consider likely to happen if we take injury out of it.
So, barring injury, its likely a reasonable assumption that Thomas continues his excellent play.
Barring injury, it's likely that Glowinski and Bredneson at least continue to be average and more or less replacement level players respectively.
The real questions are the rookie Center and the RT.
What's reasonable to expect from JMS? I think it's reasonable to expect ups and downs but overall better play from JMS than we got from Feliciano and Gates. He is universally regarded as a good center prospect with a higher ceiling than both those players. I think it's reasonable to expect him to be better than both of them, even this year.
The real question is how much improvement can be expected from Neal. He was bad last year. I still believe that his ceiling is high but he was bad enough that it brings into question how much a guy can improve in one offseason. Either way, I do think it's reasonable to expect that he improves. Not to his ceiling in one year but I think a big improvement is in order, in part because he was basically terrible last year.
In summary, it's reasonable to expect improvement. Barring a big injury bug, they should be better than their floor by a significant margin. It's unlikely they are top ten, but 14-18 seems pretty reasonable to me.
The only thing I'm worried about, besides injuries...
But whats really missing is what is reasonable to consider likely to happen if we take injury out of it.
So, barring injury, its likely a reasonable assumption that Thomas continues his excellent play.
Barring injury, it's likely that Glowinski and Bredneson at least continue to be average and more or less replacement level players respectively.
The real questions are the rookie Center and the RT.
What's reasonable to expect from JMS? I think it's reasonable to expect ups and downs but overall better play from JMS than we got from Feliciano and Gates. He is universally regarded as a good center prospect with a higher ceiling than both those players. I think it's reasonable to expect him to be better than both of them, even this year.
The real question is how much improvement can be expected from Neal. He was bad last year. I still believe that his ceiling is high but he was bad enough that it brings into question how much a guy can improve in one offseason. Either way, I do think it's reasonable to expect that he improves. Not to his ceiling in one year but I think a big improvement is in order, in part because he was basically terrible last year.
In summary, it's reasonable to expect improvement. Barring a big injury bug, they should be better than their floor by a significant margin. It's unlikely they are top ten, but 14-18 seems pretty reasonable to me.
Mr. White, if Neal gels as I expect (hope) and JMS gives, at the very least, better than average production, I can easily see top 5-10, not that rankings mean all that much given the subjectivity.
Thomas should be excellent at LT and Glowinski should be average at RG. Expect JMS to have rookie growing pains. LG, between Bredeson and Ezeudu, and RT with Neal are complete unknowns. But both positions start the year as below average based on how they finished last year. How good the OK is will depend on those unknowns. I'd expect the OL to be stronger in the second half of the season than in the first half.
Neal Question .... Anyone seen a side by side video of
True, but I felt the same in 2020 when we drafted AT, Peart, and Lemieux.
I felt optimistic in 21 with Gates coming off a surprisingly solid year, and anticipated development of the prior year’s draftees.
I felt good last year with the addition of Neal, Ezeudu, and Glowinski.
So as usual, I’m hopeful we’re positioned to show significant improvement. But I have to temper my enthusiasm until we see it on the field.
They should have three long-term starters in place
which will improve edge play and cohesion with the guards. If not, new guard(s) will be procured and build will continue. But, the talent level is now much improved.
I think the BBV report is overly optimistic about everyone besides
which will improve edge play and cohesion with the guards. If not, new guard(s) will be procured and build will continue. But, the talent level is now much improved.
The key word is cohesion...everybody on the same page. That takes time to develop, but, hopefully, not a lot of time, because they're going to be tested right out of the gate.
I expect the best case scenario. If they weren't confident in this group we'd have added to it. I'm confident in them.
As noted, a decent OL in '23 distills down to Neal getting better and JMS not sucking. That's from a stretch -- I'd say that's the baseline barring injury.
IMO in look at the Guard position as our biggest issue
Thomas, Neal, JMS are all high draft picks and I expect them to do nothing but improve. The Guards are journeymen or much lower draft picks, who knows how they will do. Hoping EZE improves and takes a spot, but right now Glow and Bredeson don't instill confidence in me.
Thomas, Neal, JMS are all high draft picks and I expect them to do nothing but improve. The Guards are journeymen or much lower draft picks, who knows how they will do. Hoping EZE improves and takes a spot, but right now Glow and Bredeson don't instill confidence in me.
Considering what the O-Line was at the end of the 2021 season, I'd say that if our OG's are our biggest concern now we're in pretty good shape. I figure any deficiencies will be addressed in 2024, assuming there's little or no development of the OG's currently on the roster.
and Neal is still struggling at RT? If your going to think of the upside you have to look at the other side as well.
The transition to NFL RT is much tougher than C, and the impact of poor play greater. Also Neal was picked for his high ceiling; JMS for his high floor.
So while a risk I believe it's unlikely.
RE: RE: IMO in look at the Guard position as our biggest issue
Thomas, Neal, JMS are all high draft picks and I expect them to do nothing but improve. The Guards are journeymen or much lower draft picks, who knows how they will do. Hoping EZE improves and takes a spot, but right now Glow and Bredeson don't instill confidence in me.
Considering what the O-Line was at the end of the 2021 season, I'd say that if our OG's are our biggest concern now we're in pretty good shape. I figure any deficiencies will be addressed in 2024, assuming there's little or no development of the OG's currently on the roster.
True. In the past Guard would have been our strength - LOL
Having better WR’s and TE play will allow the ball to come out quicker. Helping the oline. The better Daniel is the better the line is. The better the line is the better Barkley is. Hopefully they can put it all together.
AT is the only player is who better than the player on that very good OL. RG may not be on the roster but hopefully the C, LG and RT are going to all be good players.
I agree with Big Blue View seeing a wide gap of what this OL can be.
Also agree with George in Pa's point.
Hoping for a lot of progress.
You need a upper tier OL to play in the NFCE and to come out of the NFC. Too many good defenses to contend with.
Not sure I agree with George's point re. 2nd year together having little impact, unless I read it wrong/he wrote it wrong. I'm with Klaatu re. the cohesion point. That said--and maybe this is what George is saying--if Neal is as bad or only marginally better than he was last year, cohesion may be a wish and a prayer.
I'm not really sure what to take from the BBV piece, throwing all the PFF numbers into the ping pong ball mixer and coming out with BINGO at better, same, worse? Strikes me as arbitrary and random. It's not camp yet, but the eyes will be the early detection system.
I had to laugh at the photos accompanying the piece: there was EN still anchored in his 3-point stance while the Eagles (?) LDE was already in stride to attack the protection. ooff
if the starting group can stay on field together for continuity.
Who were the 'no brainers'? Not Barkley, Not Daniel Jones, maybe Dexter, but a no brainer should be just that, something that does not require much thinking at all.
Andrew Thomas? Maybe a no brainer position pick, but I don't think he was the no brainer LT pick at the time. Kadarious Toney?
Not sure I agree with George's point re. 2nd year together having little impact, unless I read it wrong/he wrote it wrong. I'm with Klaatu re. the cohesion point. That said--and maybe this is what George is saying--if Neal is as bad or only marginally better than he was last year, cohesion may be a wish and a prayer.
I'm not really sure what to take from the BBV piece, throwing all the PFF numbers into the ping pong ball mixer and coming out with BINGO at better, same, worse? Strikes me as arbitrary and random. It's not camp yet, but the eyes will be the early detection system.
I had to laugh at the photos accompanying the piece: there was EN still anchored in his 3-point stance while the Eagles (?) LDE was already in stride to attack the protection. ooff
Maybe a 3-man line where the edge is in a two-point stance?
Ezedeu and Neal must win their positions with ease and
show us why they were drafted. I mean both have to be above average if even just a bit for this line to move up and be viable. Our pass protection last year sucked with Neal and OC and OG woes galore.
Any Improvement with Neal.....has ramifications across the line.
I contend....a 2nd season playing as a group....and I am including the entire OL room...as the backups....ideally should have little impact on overall play of the line.
Thomas is irreplaceable.....as only star.
Neal and JMS are potential stars....and any jump would make a massive impact on the OL
Everything should gel better.....consistent coaching matters.
I keep going back....stopping the coaching turnstile was the key to rebuild.
Agreed. I expect (hope) that JMS is the deal, rookie indoctrination notwithstanding, but the big key, aside from the health of the OL, is Neal.
There are plenty of candidates for RG but no obvious “leader in the clubhouse”. Bredeson may be the best prospect but that depends on someone beating him out for LG.
But whats really missing is what is reasonable to consider likely to happen if we take injury out of it.
So, barring injury, its likely a reasonable assumption that Thomas continues his excellent play.
Barring injury, it's likely that Glowinski and Bredneson at least continue to be average and more or less replacement level players respectively.
The real questions are the rookie Center and the RT.
What's reasonable to expect from JMS? I think it's reasonable to expect ups and downs but overall better play from JMS than we got from Feliciano and Gates. He is universally regarded as a good center prospect with a higher ceiling than both those players. I think it's reasonable to expect him to be better than both of them, even this year.
The real question is how much improvement can be expected from Neal. He was bad last year. I still believe that his ceiling is high but he was bad enough that it brings into question how much a guy can improve in one offseason. Either way, I do think it's reasonable to expect that he improves. Not to his ceiling in one year but I think a big improvement is in order, in part because he was basically terrible last year.
In summary, it's reasonable to expect improvement. Barring a big injury bug, they should be better than their floor by a significant margin. It's unlikely they are top ten, but 14-18 seems pretty reasonable to me.
But whats really missing is what is reasonable to consider likely to happen if we take injury out of it.
So, barring injury, its likely a reasonable assumption that Thomas continues his excellent play.
Barring injury, it's likely that Glowinski and Bredneson at least continue to be average and more or less replacement level players respectively.
The real questions are the rookie Center and the RT.
What's reasonable to expect from JMS? I think it's reasonable to expect ups and downs but overall better play from JMS than we got from Feliciano and Gates. He is universally regarded as a good center prospect with a higher ceiling than both those players. I think it's reasonable to expect him to be better than both of them, even this year.
The real question is how much improvement can be expected from Neal. He was bad last year. I still believe that his ceiling is high but he was bad enough that it brings into question how much a guy can improve in one offseason. Either way, I do think it's reasonable to expect that he improves. Not to his ceiling in one year but I think a big improvement is in order, in part because he was basically terrible last year.
In summary, it's reasonable to expect improvement. Barring a big injury bug, they should be better than their floor by a significant margin. It's unlikely they are top ten, but 14-18 seems pretty reasonable to me.
Mr. White, if Neal gels as I expect (hope) and JMS gives, at the very least, better than average production, I can easily see top 5-10, not that rankings mean all that much given the subjectivity.
True, but I felt the same in 2020 when we drafted AT, Peart, and Lemieux.
I felt optimistic in 21 with Gates coming off a surprisingly solid year, and anticipated development of the prior year’s draftees.
I felt good last year with the addition of Neal, Ezeudu, and Glowinski.
So as usual, I’m hopeful we’re positioned to show significant improvement. But I have to temper my enthusiasm until we see it on the field.
The key word is cohesion...everybody on the same page. That takes time to develop, but, hopefully, not a lot of time, because they're going to be tested right out of the gate.
As noted, a decent OL in '23 distills down to Neal getting better and JMS not sucking. That's from a stretch -- I'd say that's the baseline barring injury.
Considering what the O-Line was at the end of the 2021 season, I'd say that if our OG's are our biggest concern now we're in pretty good shape. I figure any deficiencies will be addressed in 2024, assuming there's little or no development of the OG's currently on the roster.
The transition to NFL RT is much tougher than C, and the impact of poor play greater. Also Neal was picked for his high ceiling; JMS for his high floor.
So while a risk I believe it's unlikely.
Quote:
Thomas, Neal, JMS are all high draft picks and I expect them to do nothing but improve. The Guards are journeymen or much lower draft picks, who knows how they will do. Hoping EZE improves and takes a spot, but right now Glow and Bredeson don't instill confidence in me.
Considering what the O-Line was at the end of the 2021 season, I'd say that if our OG's are our biggest concern now we're in pretty good shape. I figure any deficiencies will be addressed in 2024, assuming there's little or no development of the OG's currently on the roster.
True. In the past Guard would have been our strength - LOL
AT is the only player is who better than the player on that very good OL. RG may not be on the roster but hopefully the C, LG and RT are going to all be good players.
I agree with Big Blue View seeing a wide gap of what this OL can be.
Also agree with George in Pa's point.
Hoping for a lot of progress.
You need a upper tier OL to play in the NFCE and to come out of the NFC. Too many good defenses to contend with.
Not sure I agree with George's point re. 2nd year together having little impact, unless I read it wrong/he wrote it wrong. I'm with Klaatu re. the cohesion point. That said--and maybe this is what George is saying--if Neal is as bad or only marginally better than he was last year, cohesion may be a wish and a prayer.
I'm not really sure what to take from the BBV piece, throwing all the PFF numbers into the ping pong ball mixer and coming out with BINGO at better, same, worse? Strikes me as arbitrary and random. It's not camp yet, but the eyes will be the early detection system.
I had to laugh at the photos accompanying the piece: there was EN still anchored in his 3-point stance while the Eagles (?) LDE was already in stride to attack the protection. ooff
Who were the 'no brainers'? Not Barkley, Not Daniel Jones, maybe Dexter, but a no brainer should be just that, something that does not require much thinking at all.
Andrew Thomas? Maybe a no brainer position pick, but I don't think he was the no brainer LT pick at the time. Kadarious Toney?
Not sure I agree with George's point re. 2nd year together having little impact, unless I read it wrong/he wrote it wrong. I'm with Klaatu re. the cohesion point. That said--and maybe this is what George is saying--if Neal is as bad or only marginally better than he was last year, cohesion may be a wish and a prayer.
I'm not really sure what to take from the BBV piece, throwing all the PFF numbers into the ping pong ball mixer and coming out with BINGO at better, same, worse? Strikes me as arbitrary and random. It's not camp yet, but the eyes will be the early detection system.
I had to laugh at the photos accompanying the piece: there was EN still anchored in his 3-point stance while the Eagles (?) LDE was already in stride to attack the protection. ooff
Maybe a 3-man line where the edge is in a two-point stance?