Tomon Fox: The Giants' Forgotten Man at OLB.

Seems like a weird title when the writer doesn’t think he’ll make the team this year.

I’m quite a bit more optimistic in his year 2 growth. He seems to have a solid skill set and when he does hit someone it’s violent. Wink has commented on the way Beavers hits players so we know that’s a part of the evaluation

USDA make it multiple years? He could be the forgotten man when he's cut this year.

Elerson Smith
Oshane Ximines
Habakkuk Baldonado

EDGE #3 is Jihad Ward, a useful, year-to-year veteran backup who sets a nice edge against the run and offers a bit of positional versatility, but not much else.

EDGE #2 is Azeez Ojulari, a dynamic pass rusher who can't be relied on from week to week.

The one fixture is EDGE #1, Kayvon Thibodeaux.

There's no way to forget Tomon Fox - not as the depth chart currently stands - although his upside at 25 seems limited. Besides, he seems to do enough things well to at least be an adequate backup for another year or two.

By improved depth at other positions.

I like Fox, but he wasn't the "only undrafted free agent to make the final roster in New York’s first season under the Brian Daboll...".

Not that it even matters, but CB Zyon Gilbert and RB Jashaun Corbin also stuck.

mavric said:

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Not that it even matters, but CB Zyon Gilbert and RB Jashaun Corbin also stuck.

Gilbert and Corbin were waived on August 30th. Both were signed the next day to the practice squad, where they spent the season. Temporary promotions notwithstanding, I don't think either was ever on the 53-man roster. Ryder Anderson eventually made the 53-man in December, after using up his promotions. Trenton Thompson made it for a week in November because the two PS promotions were needed elsewhere.

I could see the Giants bringing in a veteran edge rusher with credentials. They don't have the money now but they could wait until someone decent is cut or they can get the money if and when they sign Barkley to a multi year contract which could happen in July.

A solid backup. He may bounce around but will probably get 4-5 years in the league somewhere. He made more plays than Ximines last year and Smith in 2 years.

He is this year. If he worked on his body, he could see legitimate minutes.

Solid post, one that demonstrates just how thin team is at ER/OLB. Smith/Ximenes/Baldonado, not exactly frightening competition, with Smith an utter mystery yet to prove if he still warrants roster spot, and Ximenes, very surprised JS/BD brought him back. His positive to negative (washed out) play ratio is about 1:3.

Ojulari, in my mind a very large ?. Along with others, my view is that ER is close to #1 priority in '24 draft.

In comment 16127078 ColHowPepper said:

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Solid post, one that demonstrates just how thin team is at ER/OLB. Smith/Ximenes/Baldonado, not exactly frightening competition, with Smith an utter mystery yet to prove if he still warrants roster spot, and Ximenes, very surprised JS/BD brought him back. His positive to negative (washed out) play ratio is about 1:3. Ojulari, in my mind a very large ?. Along with others, my view is that ER is close to #1 priority in '24 draft.

BJ really needs to stay healthy. I like Jihad Ward on obvious run downs setting the edge. But he is exposed with too many snaps. 10-15 a game works fine. Ojulari in the rest of the time. Would’ve loved a developmental ER/olb but may be a next yr thing. Too many holes to fill them all in yr 1. I wonder if beavers can slide over some. He did play all over in college.

Held the edge pretty well last year. Tough, violent player. Can always use those guys.

In comment 16127031 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Elerson Smith Oshane Ximines Habakkuk Baldonado EDGE #3 is Jihad Ward, a useful, year-to-year veteran backup who sets a nice edge against the run and offers a bit of positional versatility, but not much else. EDGE #2 is Azeez Ojulari, a dynamic pass rusher who can't be relied on from week to week. The one fixture is EDGE #1, Kayvon Thibodeaux. There's no way to forget Tomon Fox - not as the depth chart currently stands - although his upside at 25 seems limited. Besides, he seems to do enough things well to at least be an adequate backup for another year or two.

^This. We're thin behind KT and AO, and the latter has had difficulty staying healthy. Everyone else, including Fox, is a journeyman at best. But right now, Ward and Fox look like the best of that bunch.

In comment 16127031 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Elerson Smith Oshane Ximines Habakkuk Baldonado EDGE #3 is Jihad Ward, a useful, year-to-year veteran backup who sets a nice edge against the run and offers a bit of positional versatility, but not much else. EDGE #2 is Azeez Ojulari, a dynamic pass rusher who can't be relied on from week to week. The one fixture is EDGE #1, Kayvon Thibodeaux. There's no way to forget Tomon Fox - not as the depth chart currently stands - although his upside at 25 seems limited. Besides, he seems to do enough things well to at least be an adequate backup for another year or two.

I put him slightly behind Ximines at #2 on that list.

In comment 16127031 Big Blue Blogger said:

Quote:

Elerson Smith Oshane Ximines Habakkuk Baldonado EDGE #3 is Jihad Ward, a useful, year-to-year veteran backup who sets a nice edge against the run and offers a bit of positional versatility, but not much else. EDGE #2 is Azeez Ojulari, a dynamic pass rusher who can't be relied on from week to week. The one fixture is EDGE #1, Kayvon Thibodeaux. There's no way to forget Tomon Fox - not as the depth chart currently stands - although his upside at 25 seems limited. Besides, he seems to do enough things well to at least be an adequate backup for another year or two.

This post really points out how exposed the team is with questionable names on the edge. Desperately need Ojulari to step up, Thibodeaux to develop further and have Wink "manufacture" EDGE #3 pressure from sending various guys via his schemes.

In comment 16127120 ThomasG said:

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In comment 16127031 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: Elerson Smith Oshane Ximines Habakkuk Baldonado EDGE #3 is Jihad Ward, a useful, year-to-year veteran backup who sets a nice edge against the run and offers a bit of positional versatility, but not much else. EDGE #2 is Azeez Ojulari, a dynamic pass rusher who can't be relied on from week to week. The one fixture is EDGE #1, Kayvon Thibodeaux. There's no way to forget Tomon Fox - not as the depth chart currently stands - although his upside at 25 seems limited. Besides, he seems to do enough things well to at least be an adequate backup for another year or two. This post really points out how exposed the team is with questionable names on the edge. Desperately need Ojulari to step up, Thibodeaux to develop further and have Wink "manufacture" EDGE #3 pressure from sending various guys via his schemes.

A need for sure but can’t fix everything in a yr

In comment 16127066 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:

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He is this year. If he worked on his body, he could see legitimate minutes.

It's not always a matter of strength. Sometimes a guy isn't quick/fast enough, sometimes his instincts or reaction time aren't fast enough.

In comment 16127095 Payasdaddy said:

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In comment 16127078 ColHowPepper said: Quote: Solid post, one that demonstrates just how thin team is at ER/OLB. Smith/Ximenes/Baldonado, not exactly frightening competition, with Smith an utter mystery yet to prove if he still warrants roster spot, and Ximenes, very surprised JS/BD brought him back. His positive to negative (washed out) play ratio is about 1:3. Ojulari, in my mind a very large ?. Along with others, my view is that ER is close to #1 priority in '24 draft./////// BJ really needs to stay healthy. I like Jihad Ward on obvious run downs setting the edge. But he is exposed with too many snaps. 10-15 a game works fine. Ojulari in the rest of the time. Would’ve loved a developmental ER/olb but may be a next yr thing. Too many holes to fill them all in yr 1. I wonder if beavers can slide over some. He did play all over in college.

Payasdaddy, I'm blanking on BJ ?
Beavers looked so comfortable in the middle; honestly no idea if he possesses the speed to move outside; that plus the ongoing re-hab from ACL tear. If he can return at something nearing what he was showing in camp last year in the first quarter of the season or so, would be a +

Easy to confuse them, although I try to remember every BJ - especially those that demonstrate enough pro-level skills to provide some depth.

Ojulari doesn't need to step up, he simply needs to stay on the field like he did in 2021.

As a rookie he had 27 pressures including 8 sacks and 8 tackles for loss.

Pro-rate his 2022 production to 17 games and he's a 13 sack, 40 pressure, 9 TFL player.

He had a very good rookie year, and a banged up 2nd year. As a dedicated pass rusher he's a very productive.

BBB, thanks; thought it had a familiar ring

christian, what you say may be right and is what fans 'hope' plays out. That said, even in '21, he was not a good edge setter. Unless he is taught and achieves an expansion of his game, being on the field primarily to rush the passer does have its limitations, can be schemed/screened around, etc. Team's (near) league bottom in defense vs the run was multi-factored. Hoping JS has in mind a dual purpose edge next year.

In comment 16127163 christian said:

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Ojulari doesn't need to step up, he simply needs to stay on the field like he did in 2021. As a rookie he had 27 pressures including 8 sacks and 8 tackles for loss. Pro-rate his 2022 production to 17 games and he's a 13 sack, 40 pressure, 9 TFL player. He had a very good rookie year, and a banged up 2nd year. As a dedicated pass rusher he's a very productive.

I agree with this take. AO was tremendous as a rookie, he gained a bunch of muscle and then had I believe multiple soft tissue injuries for '22? The weird thing is, he fell in the draft because of I believe issues with his knee. So the injuries arent related. When you rush back from a muscle injury, sometimes you injure another muscle group.

But as far as his play, I think he had 5.5 sacks in 8 games last year? Thats pretty good production.

Don't get me wrong - we could do worse than have him develop into a specialist like Haason Reddick. Even Reddick took four years to develop into Haason Reddick. It's hard to be sure what we have in Ojulari. He's a bit bigger than Reddick, and has been more productive than Reddick was initially. His ceiling - against both the run and the pass - remains unknown.

While Fox may not be maxed out, there's reason to think he's farther in that direction than Ojulari.

is for coaches to compare two of their own players who are at the same position. The competition for Fox seems to be weak. Maybe the decision might come down to special teams play, or salary. But IMHO, the coaches will have no problem selecting their best players at LB.

In comment 16127244 Marty in Albany said:

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is for coaches to compare two of their own players who are at the same position. The competition for Fox seems to be weak. Maybe the decision might come down to special teams play, or salary. But IMHO, the coaches will have no problem selecting their best players at LB.

Yeah, you'd think so, but how many times did I say to myself wtf are they thinking when they start a guy who sucks because he did well in practice and then he sucked in games? :)

Wink can play schematically more to his liking.

They gave up 21.5 pts which is not great but not horrible considering they let up 145ypg on the ground overall and 189ypg against division opponents which may be one of the worst run D's in NFCE history. The NFCE is also a much better division running the ball then where Wink came from so maybe he makes some adjustments as well.

Maybe Ojulari develops more in the run game or maybe Wink utilizes him more situationally but still has starter reps.

We'll see where Fox fits in or somebody else.

Better run D will will create more poor down/down situations which will lead to more hits, sacks and turnovers which they also need to improve at.

In comment 16127176 ColHowPepper said:

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christian, what you say may be right and is what fans 'hope' plays out. That said, even in '21, he was not a good edge setter. Unless he is taught and achieves an expansion of his game, being on the field primarily to rush the passer does have its limitations, can be schemed/screened around, etc. Team's (near) league bottom in defense vs the run was multi-factored. Hoping JS has in mind a dual purpose edge next year.

Sure, a 3-down outside linebacker on both sides would be ideal.

But if you look at the probabilities -- ~65% of plays are passes. So then take out the obvious run downs where Ward will be on the field, and take out the inside rush attempts where edge setting is (but) less of a factor, and we're really only talking a handful of snaps a game where the rush attempts are going directly to his play side.

I think and the Giants seem to agree the bigger issue in the run game was they only had two defensive lineman they trusted as they year went on. A couple of games they tried to run Anderson out there and he was benched early. Robinson and Roches are where they put the resources and they are running out the same group at outside linebacker, so presumably that's the plan.

not running 65% pass plays.

In comment 16127368 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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not running 65% pass plays.

Yup, typo on my part, pass plays are 55% not 65%.

Only reason Ximenes was drafted 2nd day was inflated sack totals against inferior college opposition.

Would love to see whether speed training would have a massive impact on Fox as an outside rusher.

He may make the team but to say he was forgotten is a little over the top.

Ojulari and Thibs combo is in the top 10 in pass rush imo. The problem is that AO was hurt most of the year so Ward and others had to play a lot more. I personally think the Giants will play more 3 down lineman on 1st and 2nd down based on who they signed in the offseason. There were no quality pass rushers on the market so they shored up the DL and brought back the guys they know.

Fox is in a battle for the final 53 but may wind up on the PS. He is a guy you root for but his game has some major holes.

Fox displays some explosion and downhill pop, and X looks like he's being dragged to the finish line out there.

In comment 16127163 christian said:

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Ojulari doesn't need to step up, he simply needs to stay on the field like he did in 2021. As a rookie he had 27 pressures including 8 sacks and 8 tackles for loss. Pro-rate his 2022 production to 17 games and he's a 13 sack, 40 pressure, 9 TFL player. He had a very good rookie year, and a banged up 2nd year. As a dedicated pass rusher he's a very productive.

This.