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| Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures,” he said. |
The old saying applies "where there's smoke, there's fire". There's been a shitload of smoke (figuratively) over the decades, witnessed by countless pilots, astronauts, engineers, air traffic control, people who aren't drunken hillbillies.
I saw something i could never explain about 25 yrs ago and it's pretty annoying when I tell people about it and they try to explain it away. It's insulting. You weren't there! You have no idea what I saw! It wasn't a f^king plane!
The counterargument is that it is very easy to plausibly argue that humanity is the only sentient life in the galaxy. People also tend to see what they want to see, and it scares people to think that we are alone in the galaxy, or even worse, the entire universe. As Arther C. Clarke said, “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”
At this point, I don't know what to believe.
Well, if depends on what you mean by UFOs. Do I believe there are sightings of things in the sky that defy explanation? Sure. Do I think that constitutes proof of extraterrestrial life visiting this planet? No.
😂😂😂
Frankly, they are probably correct. Inevitably, they (aliens) contradict God and religion.
Without God and religion to keep people behaving, they fear a free for all, where people are like "there's no God?......well I am gonna go hog wild then".....They think that people's motivation for a lot of the way we behave is because there is a God with or without the law.
This is 1950's thinking although one can't help but wonder how more religiously devout countries would deal with this.
Fact is, just like there are people who are invariably inclined to believe in supernatural stuff, there are people who, for whatever reason, are psychologically hardwired to be skeptical of everything. An alien could land on their front lawn and shake their hand and they would say "well it's probably a weather balloon."
Some people, on both extreme spectrums, will simply believe what they believe regardless of any evidence presented
Frankly, they are probably correct. Inevitably, they (aliens) contradict God and religion.
Without God and religion to keep people behaving, they fear a free for all, where people are like "there's no God?......well I am gonna go hog wild then".....They think that people's motivation for a lot of the way we behave is because there is a God with or without the law.
This is 1950's thinking although one can't help but wonder how more religiously devout countries would deal with this.
Everyone has their own "religion" now. For some, it is a social agenda that they have shaped their entire life around and for others it is whoever their god is.
No matter what it is, those who believe in their religion will not accept the truth if that truth contradicts their beliefs.
I think we're kind of at a tipping point here, not enough people blabbing to make it a possibility but if a few more come out and add to the chatter it will add some credibility.
Like Mulder, I want to believe.
So today's article is telling us about some evidence and testimony of a whistleblower to congress without actually giving any evidence. Ok. I guess we continue to wait until actual evidence arrives.
There is a great book for those interested: Rare Earth - Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe. It outlines all the incredible unique things about Earth that allows it to sustain life . . . size of our sun, Earth's distance from it, plate tectonics, size of our moon, and a many other factors all based in science.
If there is life out there (I believe there probably is . . .), the odds are it is 100 trillion miles or more in distance. For it to get here would require knowledge of sustained energy, high speed space travel and life support beyond our comprehension. Like my favorite science fiction technology . . . when Doc Brown returns from the future with "Mr. Fusion". That would definitely help.
Aside from fuzzy videos, is there any real, concrete(or should I say metallic) evidence.
Is it possible? of course....is it likely? I doubt it.
We know this, because there has been at least one president in recent years who is famously been proven incapable of keeping his mouth shut on the record, in matters from national security to his own deposition for sexual assault.
If the U.S. govt is hiding flying saucers or aliens, at least one of these loose-lipped presidents would have spilled the beans. Or else a different conspiracy is at work.
The old saying applies "where there's smoke, there's fire". There's been a shitload of smoke (figuratively) over the decades, witnessed by countless pilots, astronauts, engineers, air traffic control, people who aren't drunken hillbillies.
I saw something i could never explain about 25 yrs ago and it's pretty annoying when I tell people about it and they try to explain it away. It's insulting. You weren't there! You have no idea what I saw! It wasn't a f^king plane!
Why be insulted about something that has yet to be proven? I think something exists but I don’t know what and likely won’t believe it until I see it. Why would that bother you?
Frankly, they are probably correct. Inevitably, they (aliens) contradict God and religion.
I don't agree that aliens contradict God and religion. I believe in God and I believe there's a good chance there are other life forms on other planets.
I believe the first 5 books of the Bible were written (or dictated) by Moses, as inspired by God. I believe God told Moses what was important for us to know (btw, the original Hebrew word used to describe the time period of the creation, "yom" didn't necessarily mean 6 - 24 hour days as we know it. It had multiple meanings, including period of time).
That God didn't tell Moses about his other creations, including dinosaurs and beings on other planets, makes sense (it wasn't important enough) and has no effect on my belief.
God or super creator or whatever we dub it can be for all creation, not just human
Way past my pay grade though
There is a great book for those interested: Rare Earth - Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe. It outlines all the incredible unique things about Earth that allows it to sustain life . . . size of our sun, Earth's distance from it, plate tectonics, size of our moon, and a many other factors all based in science.
If there is life out there (I believe there probably is . . .), the odds are it is 100 trillion miles or more in distance. For it to get here would require knowledge of sustained energy, high speed space travel and life support beyond our comprehension. Like my favorite science fiction technology . . . when Doc Brown returns from the future with "Mr. Fusion". That would definitely help.
"Rare Earth" makes a very good case for why complex life is extremely rare in the universe. A more recent study comes to the same conclusion. Even rarer is complex life that is intelligent enough to traverse the stars.
There is also the possibility that most intelligent beings inevitably destroy themselves as they consume the resources of their home planet (see humanity). This is part of the "great barrier" answer to the Fermi paradox.
A few people also correctly noted that keeping evidence of extraterrestrial contact secret would be difficult given the number of people involved. My guess is that would be especially difficult in the age of the internet and instant communication.
Link - ( New Window )
My stance has always been that if aliens ever did find us, we'd know pretty quickly and it wouldn't be pretty, at least if they're anything like us.
Back in the early 90s shortly after I graduated college I was catching up with a high school friend who I hadn't seen in a couple of years. While we were bs'ing about anything and everything that happened to come to mind, she shared a story that really resonated with me, as my sister and I (with our mother in the car) had seen a UFO one night (I have only a vague memory of it, but it was widely reported in the local newspapers the next day as dozens of reports were called in to area police departments).
A friend of hers who was in ROTC at her college had graduated a year ahead of her and entered the Air Force as an engineer. While he had been home visiting on leave, he told her a story that had shaken him. He and two other engineers were were taken without advance notice to an undisclosed location (as I recall I believe she'd told me they were blindfolded while in transit) where they were shown the remnants of a damaged, and presumably crashed, aircraft. The officers who brought them there just said, "figure out how it works." They were never told what it's origin was or how it was obtained, just reverse engineer it (which they couldn't).
The other thing he told her was (paraphrasing) "believe everything you see on TV, aliens are real." During this time period in the early 1990s cable TV was inundated with UFO shows. They were generally low budget, sensational and quite frankly barely believable, but I was hooked on them for a little while and usually enjoyed them. Anyone that watched there after I viewed with a more critical eye.
Anyone from the lower Hudson Valley who was around in the late 1980s certainly remembers the Black Triangle sightings. I never saw it (or them) myself, but a couple of people I know did (I was away at college during the peak of the phenomenon apparently).
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I never understand how when the question "do you believe UFOs exist?" comes up, some people are so certain the answer is NO! Why? How? How could anyone be so certain?
The old saying applies "where there's smoke, there's fire". There's been a shitload of smoke (figuratively) over the decades, witnessed by countless pilots, astronauts, engineers, air traffic control, people who aren't drunken hillbillies.
I saw something i could never explain about 25 yrs ago and it's pretty annoying when I tell people about it and they try to explain it away. It's insulting. You weren't there! You have no idea what I saw! It wasn't a f^king plane!
Why be insulted about something that has yet to be proven? I think something exists but I don’t know what and likely won’t believe it until I see it. Why would that bother you?
I think you missed my point. What's insulting is when I describe in detail what I personally saw (I had a pretty close view and it was definitely NOT an airplane) and someone who wasn't there acts like - no, it couldn't be a UFO, "maybe it was an airplane".
That's happened to me, more than once. I'm an easy going guy and don't express anger about it, but it is really annoying. Like I'm stupid and don't know what a f^king plane in the sky looks like.
And it's not like I see this stuff every weekend. I'm 60+ yrs old, have looked in the sky multiple thousands of times. Only once have I seen what I saw that night. It was pretty close, looked like others have described and even photographed (I've described it on BBI before), lasted about 2 minutes, freaked me out and is something I'll never forget (at least until I get Alzheimer's). But to some people who weren't there, I was just seeing normal stuff that night. They just know, somehow.
As a believer with a science background (chemical engineer), I don't deny the big bang, evolution or dinosaurs. I don't know anyone that does.
I believe the big bang is evidence of a creator. I believe in evolution to the extent that has actually been proven, i.e., species adapt, survival of the fittest, etc. And as I said above, I believe God told Moses what was important for us to know and dinosaurs (and aliens on other planets) didn't make the cut.
The dam is breaking.
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But they'd be open to aliens?
As a believer with a science background (chemical engineer), I don't deny the big bang, evolution or dinosaurs. I don't know anyone that does.
I believe the big bang is evidence of a creator. I believe in evolution to the extent that has actually been proven, i.e., species adapt, survival of the fittest, etc. And as I said above, I believe God told Moses what was important for us to know and dinosaurs (and aliens on other planets) didn't make the cut.
That's good that you've found a way to reconcile the conflicts. But none of these religious texts are presented this way, i.e. "this is what you need to know". They're presented in a pretty unequivocal way as universal truths. And so Scientology (as far as I know) seems to be the only one that's ready for Aliens to be real. Aliens would be another challenge to these religions. Some folks would adapt their beliefs like you have and some wouldn't.
Our star is the right spectral type (G).
Our star is stable. (The sun is about halfway through its expected life as a main sequence star.)
Our solar system is located well away from the galactic center.
Our solar system only has one star.
Our solar system has the right astronomical geometry (smaller inner planets protected by bigger gas giants that are further away.)
Earth is far enough away from the Sun so that it is not tidally locked.
Earth rotates regularly on its axis.
Earth is in the habitable ("goldilocks") zone around the Sun, where liquid water can exist on its surface.
Earth has a moon.
Earth is a rocky planet.
Earth is big enough to have a magnetic field that can deflect solar radiation.
Earth has an abundance of the elements needed for life.
Very few solar systems meet all or even most of these criteria. We'd therefore likely be very high on the list of solar systems aliens would want to investigate.
There is a great book for those interested: Rare Earth - Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe. It outlines all the incredible unique things about Earth that allows it to sustain life . . . size of our sun, Earth's distance from it, plate tectonics, size of our moon, and a many other factors all based in science.
Of course all of the science covered in this book is Earth based science.
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In comment 16128007 Heisenberg said:
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But they'd be open to aliens?
As a believer with a science background (chemical engineer), I don't deny the big bang, evolution or dinosaurs. I don't know anyone that does.
I believe the big bang is evidence of a creator. I believe in evolution to the extent that has actually been proven, i.e., species adapt, survival of the fittest, etc. And as I said above, I believe God told Moses what was important for us to know and dinosaurs (and aliens on other planets) didn't make the cut.
That's good that you've found a way to reconcile the conflicts. But none of these religious texts are presented this way, i.e. "this is what you need to know". They're presented in a pretty unequivocal way as universal truths. And so Scientology (as far as I know) seems to be the only one that's ready for Aliens to be real. Aliens would be another challenge to these religions. Some folks would adapt their beliefs like you have and some wouldn't.
It's not about adapting my faith. It doesn't affect my faith, at all. There is no where in the Bible that says God created life ONLY on earth. Other planets aren't mentioned. Why would they be?
If you invent a device and write an operating manual, are you going to include information on other stuff that's totally unrelated?
And large beasts are mentioned, who knows if they are what we now call dinosaurs (or if the dinosaurs were long gone before Moses time and God didn't tell him about them. Who cares?).
None of it matters to me. It's not important at all. If you were to sum up the Bible, especially the New Testament in one word, it would be "love". Love God, and love each other. Dinosaurs and aliens were not important in what God was trying to teach us. They were unimportant details that we didn't need to know about at the time. Believing that is in no way adapting my faith.
So today's article is telling us about some evidence and testimony of a whistleblower to congress without actually giving any evidence. Ok. I guess we continue to wait until actual evidence arrives.
religion's best track record is for killing and repressing people who don't think like them...
Concrete Podcast - Diana Walsh Pasulka - ( New Window )
LOL! Great movie!
Biological beings have needs and issues with space travel. Machines, not so much..and machines with AI have the best of both worlds. Make them self replicating/self repairing, and they can make as many of themselves as needed.
You don't need more than one or two worlds to start the ball rolling by creating AI robots and space travel. We are in the beginning stages of AI...what will happen in 2-300 years?
The other thing Aliens could be...is US! If Time travel becomes possible, it explains a lot of what we're seeing with UFO's. Time travelers would take incredible precautions not to interact with people from an earlier time, so the basic time line is not polluted.
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and for a more devout country - there's not a lot of room for aliens in any of these religions - except Scientology. A more devout nation would probably have added incentive to hide the evidence of aliens.
So today's article is telling us about some evidence and testimony of a whistleblower to congress without actually giving any evidence. Ok. I guess we continue to wait until actual evidence arrives.
religion's best track record is for killing and repressing people who don't think like them...
Well, for the last century or so:
Mao Zedong (atheist) was responsible for the deaths of estimated 40 to 80 million people through starvation, persecution, prison labor and mass executions
Hitler (Satanic Occultist) was responsible for the death of at least 10+ million people between the Jews and prisoners of war.
Stalin (atheist) was responsible for the death of at least 7 million people through similar acts as Mao.
Pol Pot (atheist) - estimates from 1.5 to 3 million
The Un's of N. Korea (atheists) and who knows how many deaths
So if you compare Atheist/Occultists with Christians over the last century it's about 100 million deaths to what?
Also, one thing not taught much these days, the Crusades that took place over several centuries were originally defensive. They were in response to the invasions, massacres, pillaging, oppression, etc. from a certain other religion.
If ET lands at a high school, the video goes viral that afternoon whether the Government likes it or not.
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In comment 16127928 Heisenberg said:
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and for a more devout country - there's not a lot of room for aliens in any of these religions - except Scientology. A more devout nation would probably have added incentive to hide the evidence of aliens.
So today's article is telling us about some evidence and testimony of a whistleblower to congress without actually giving any evidence. Ok. I guess we continue to wait until actual evidence arrives.
religion's best track record is for killing and repressing people who don't think like them...
Well, for the last century or so:
Mao Zedong (atheist) was responsible for the deaths of estimated 40 to 80 million people through starvation, persecution, prison labor and mass executions
Hitler (Satanic Occultist) was responsible for the death of at least 10+ million people between the Jews and prisoners of war.
Stalin (atheist) was responsible for the death of at least 7 million people through similar acts as Mao.
Pol Pot (atheist) - estimates from 1.5 to 3 million
The Un's of N. Korea (atheists) and who knows how many deaths
So if you compare Atheist/Occultists with Christians over the last century it's about 100 million deaths to what?
Also, one thing not taught much these days, the Crusades that took place over several centuries were originally defensive. They were in response to the invasions, massacres, pillaging, oppression, etc. from a certain other religion.
I'm not here to argue about anything in this thread, but I'm wondering where you come up with the designation of Hitler as Satanic/Occultist. Seems like something between an oversimplification and a mischaracterization, given what's written in the massive, well-sourced Wikipedia entry "Religious Views of Adolf Hitler."
Peace!
They took our jobs! - ( New Window )