JosinaAnderson
@JosinaAnderson
Yes. He is with the #Giants today.
Quote Tweet
Tyler Dunne
@TyDunne
·
1h
Leslie Frazier clearly plans to coach. twitter.com/josinaanderson… Link - ( New Window )
He wasn't. He took time away for personal/medical reasons. I'm not sure if he's still under contract with Buffalo.
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Unless this is purely a meeting to visit with old friends, he must have gotten approval from Buffalo, otherwise it would clearly be tampering.
He has a unique background in both man and zone foundations
[Josina Anderson] After attending the NFL’s recent Accelerator Program in Minneapolis, former #Bills AHC & DC Leslie Frazier spent two days with the #Packers, is currently spending two days with the #Commanders, and is scheduled to spend two days with the #Giants after that to maintain dialogue.
He's touring. He's keeping his name in circulation. He's networking. He's probably doing some consulting while he is in each place as a fresh set of eyes.
They’d be wrong. McDermott gets some bonuses for program he runs up there but he largely was in charge of defense and ultimately deciding adjustments. Frazier was not always in total control and final say on defense even if he developed plans and called most defenses. McDermott is reaching a point as HC where sometimes messaging and discipline is becoming a problem and his mingling in with the defense caused issues last few years. I’d argue Dorsey showed a lot of warts as OC too last year. Allen was allowed to freelance and streetball a bit, they moved off standard run game at times, and it got him hurt a few times in games.
They’d be wrong. McDermott gets some bonuses for program he runs up there but he largely was in charge of defense and ultimately deciding adjustments. Frazier was not always in total control and final say on defense even if he developed plans and called most defenses. McDermott is reaching a point as HC where sometimes messaging and discipline is becoming a problem and his mingling in with the defense caused issues last few years. I’d argue Dorsey showed a lot of warts as OC too last year. Allen was allowed to freelance and streetball a bit, they moved off standard run game at times, and it got him hurt a few times in games.
________________________
Interesting take and I can’t disagree. Frazier seemed to be stuck in a rut. Solid but not a brilliant defensive mind. Regarding Dorsey, I have always liked him because he is a Miami guy but he doesn’t appear to be very creative offensively and it is glaring since he had to follow Daboll.
They’d be wrong. McDermott gets some bonuses for program he runs up there but he largely was in charge of defense and ultimately deciding adjustments. Frazier was not always in total control and final say on defense even if he developed plans and called most defenses. McDermott is reaching a point as HC where sometimes messaging and discipline is becoming a problem and his mingling in with the defense caused issues last few years. I’d argue Dorsey showed a lot of warts as OC too last year. Allen was allowed to freelance and streetball a bit, they moved off standard run game at times, and it got him hurt a few times in games.
________________________
Interesting take and I can’t disagree. Frazier seemed to be stuck in a rut. Solid but not a brilliant defensive mind. Regarding Dorsey, I have always liked him because he is a Miami guy but he doesn’t appear to be very creative offensively and it is glaring since he had to follow Daboll.
Anarumo handed Dorsey his lunch in playoff game. In sloppy conditions, Dorsey looked clueless and offense was unprepared for what Bengals were doing. It wasn’t just the Bills defense that got pushed around. Allen and Dorsey looked painedand at a loss during the game. That’s just a death knell for any game never mind playoffs. They seemed to be overconfident based on being able to play opened up in the Miami game too.
I don’t blame Frazier really at all for this years loss. That defense was on fumes end of year and their secondary was showing signs of breaking too much. The collapse in KC year before was really more so but again that’s also on McDermott to share evenly.
They’d be wrong. McDermott gets some bonuses for program he runs up there but he largely was in charge of defense and ultimately deciding adjustments. Frazier was not always in total control and final say on defense even if he developed plans and called most defenses. McDermott is reaching a point as HC where sometimes messaging and discipline is becoming a problem and his mingling in with the defense caused issues last few years. I’d argue Dorsey showed a lot of warts as OC too last year. Allen was allowed to freelance and streetball a bit, they moved off standard run game at times, and it got him hurt a few times in games.
Ok, not trying to argue anything here, because the above is often the public perception of what happened in Buffalo, but this is not at all, and the tape tends to prove it. I caveat everything below with the fact that Frazier is an excellent DC, and would be an asset to any team. But the fit was not right.
McDermott and Frazier both came in, in 2017. Early on the Bills defense was a much more aggressive defense, especially in regards to blitzing and man coverage. During the first two years of Frazier and McDermott together, there were multiple occasions when McDermott took over defensive play calling, and unfortunately for Frazier, the defense generally looked better when he did. McDermott has a reputation for being a more aggressive play caller.
Over the past three seasons, the defense has been Frazier's to run and you can see the difference. Though the Bills always rank in the top 10 in pass defense, they gave up plenty of third and longs with good QBs taking advantage of Frazier's soft coverage schemes, with the KC playoff game being exhibit A, and the Bengals games last year being exhibit B. Lots of zone, not a lot of disguises, and not a lot of packages to create pressure. Even Bengals WRs commented about this. Over the past three seasons, the Bills defense has been good, but it has been soft and prone to giving up first downs on third downs they should win. During the past three seasons McDermott never took over play calling during a game.
There is no doubt, the Bills defense the last several seasons as more Frazier than McDermott. The two styles are in contrast.
McDermott is a Jim Johnson disciple, and every Giants fan who remembers the eagles defense of the early 2000s, remembers that defensive style. Aggressive, penetrating DTs, physical secondary. Sean McDermott learned under Johnson and brought that style of 4-3 defense to the Panthers.
There is no proof of this, but the speculation based on available evidence is that McDermott and Frazier have very different defensive philosophies and things had to change. Not to mention when you look at the Bills investments on defense, they fit the Jim Johnson/Sean McDermott approach, not the Leslie Frazier approach.
I do not agree that there is any evidence McDermott has a messaging or discipline problem. That team loves their HC. And after the Hamlin incident, they respect him and know he cares about them. I think that situation is fine, but is McDermott at the point where he needs to get to an AFC title game, ABSOLUTELY.
I agree on Ken Dorsey. The jury is still out. It wasn't that Allen was freelancing so much last year, as the Bills had NOTHING that consistently attacked the middle of the field. Not having Cole Beasley (or that type) of player really hurt the offense. There were no layups. If you look at the Bills' front office approach to this offseason, they brought in three players that can play the slot and work the middle of the field. But Dorsey has all eyes on him, for sure.
Leslie Frazier has experience coaching under Wink Martindale.
Passing Coordinator?
Assistant Head Coach?
Senior Defensive Assistant?
Note
Ryan Cowder is Executive Advisor to the General Manager and Dennis Hickey is Assistant Director of Player Personnel. One is a former GM and one a future GM, both seem to have roles bigger than their official job titles.
Schoen and Daboll are certainly able to attract talented people into the building.
If you go back and watch the game, McDermott looked like he was lost from time to time in the game. While the defense was under Frasier and he is responsible, I think McDermott is not a good decision maker in games.
I think we got the better coach in Daboll, hopefully we will find out soon.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
4m
Been asked about Leslie Frazier visiting with #NYGiants and speculation about what it means. Here's what I have learned:
Not a job interview for Frazier with NYG. He's visiting teams. Yes, connections with Daboll, Schoen + Wink lead to conclusions, but I'm told this isn't that.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
4m
Been asked about Leslie Frazier visiting with #NYGiants and speculation about what it means. Here's what I have learned:
Not a job interview for Frazier with NYG. He's visiting teams. Yes, connections with Daboll, Schoen + Wink lead to conclusions, but I'm told this isn't that.
He's regarded as one of the NFL's better defensive minds and actually interviewed for the NYG head coaching vacancy in 2022, along with Daboll.
Maybe so, but go to a decent Bills Messge Board and you will see a very vocal group of Bills Mafia not upset one bit at Frazier leaving this year. Too conservative for my liking too…didn’t we have that before Wink? (Graham) How did that work out for us? I think practically every team scored a TD on us just before halftime, no matter how much time they had to play with.
If you like Graham then I’m sure you will like Frazier. I don’t…..
Ok, not trying to argue anything here, because the above is often the public perception of what happened in Buffalo, but this is not at all, and the tape tends to prove it. I caveat everything below with the fact that Frazier is an excellent DC, and would be an asset to any team. But the fit was not right.
McDermott and Frazier both came in, in 2017. Early on the Bills defense was a much more aggressive defense, especially in regards to blitzing and man coverage. During the first two years of Frazier and McDermott together, there were multiple occasions when McDermott took over defensive play calling, and unfortunately for Frazier, the defense generally looked better when he did. McDermott has a reputation for being a more aggressive play caller.
Over the past three seasons, the defense has been Frazier's to run and you can see the difference. Though the Bills always rank in the top 10 in pass defense, they gave up plenty of third and longs with good QBs taking advantage of Frazier's soft coverage schemes, with the KC playoff game being exhibit A, and the Bengals games last year being exhibit B. Lots of zone, not a lot of disguises, and not a lot of packages to create pressure. Even Bengals WRs commented about this. Over the past three seasons, the Bills defense has been good, but it has been soft and prone to giving up first downs on third downs they should win. During the past three seasons McDermott never took over play calling during a game.
There is no doubt, the Bills defense the last several seasons as more Frazier than McDermott. The two styles are in contrast.
McDermott is a Jim Johnson disciple, and every Giants fan who remembers the eagles defense of the early 2000s, remembers that defensive style. Aggressive, penetrating DTs, physical secondary. Sean McDermott learned under Johnson and brought that style of 4-3 defense to the Panthers.
There is no proof of this, but the speculation based on available evidence is that McDermott and Frazier have very different defensive philosophies and things had to change. Not to mention when you look at the Bills investments on defense, they fit the Jim Johnson/Sean McDermott approach, not the Leslie Frazier approach.
Sounds plausible to me. But if that's true, McDermott should shoulder some responsibility (as head coach and defensive guru) for a) hiring a coordinator whose style didn't fit the talent being assembled and b) not changing things up sooner.
To be fair to Frazier, Buffalo's D has had solid regular season showings, and he's an experienced hand who would be useful wherever he goes. I'm sure those playoff meltdowns are tough for Buffalo fans to swallow, though, so I'm not surprised he was scapegoated for it.
You can have legitimate concerns of two different defensive styles, but most of the NFL plays bend but don't break now.
And equating Frazier, who has a long and proven track record of defensive success, with Graham, who does not, is just downright lazy.
Eric, read Emil’s very detailed post that gives you a very honest evaluation of Frazier and his 5- 6 years stay in Buffalo. The man is spot on and if you don’t want to believe him, do your own research.
I surmise McDermott went to Frazier after the playoffs and said, “I don’t want to embarrass you so let’s do your good bye honorably…”……and now you see why he is running around available. And I fully support McDermott in this decision. Frazier had to go……just like Graham had to go.
I know some here on BBI wanted Graham to stay, but anybody who prefers Graham over Wink perhaps doesn’t know much about the nuances of football and what it takes to be successful. By the way, is there anyone out there praising Graham for his work last year? Was he taking many interviews for HC openings like Wink was? Just wondering….
Lastly, if Wink does get a HC job next year and we hire Frazier to replace him, we have taken a huge step backwards and get ready for mediocrity…..again.
He wasn't. He took time away for personal/medical reasons. I'm not sure if he's still under contract with Buffalo.
Quote:
he was let go.
He wasn't. He took time away for personal/medical reasons. I'm not sure if he's still under contract with Buffalo.
AT least from what was written at the time, it seemed to be a mutually agreed upon decision by both Frasier and the Bills.
Quote:
he was let go.
He wasn't. He took time away for personal/medical reasons. I'm not sure if he's still under contract with Buffalo.
Unless this is purely a meeting to visit with old friends, he must have gotten approval from Buffalo, otherwise it would clearly be tampering.
But it isn't an interview.
He's regarded as one of the NFL's better defensive minds and actually interviewed for the NYG head coaching vacancy in 2022, along with Daboll.
They’d be wrong. McDermott gets some bonuses for program he runs up there but he largely was in charge of defense and ultimately deciding adjustments. Frazier was not always in total control and final say on defense even if he developed plans and called most defenses. McDermott is reaching a point as HC where sometimes messaging and discipline is becoming a problem and his mingling in with the defense caused issues last few years. I’d argue Dorsey showed a lot of warts as OC too last year. Allen was allowed to freelance and streetball a bit, they moved off standard run game at times, and it got him hurt a few times in games.
Quote:
Are glad he left…..he was their weakest link.
They’d be wrong. McDermott gets some bonuses for program he runs up there but he largely was in charge of defense and ultimately deciding adjustments. Frazier was not always in total control and final say on defense even if he developed plans and called most defenses. McDermott is reaching a point as HC where sometimes messaging and discipline is becoming a problem and his mingling in with the defense caused issues last few years. I’d argue Dorsey showed a lot of warts as OC too last year. Allen was allowed to freelance and streetball a bit, they moved off standard run game at times, and it got him hurt a few times in games.
Interesting take and I can’t disagree. Frazier seemed to be stuck in a rut. Solid but not a brilliant defensive mind. Regarding Dorsey, I have always liked him because he is a Miami guy but he doesn’t appear to be very creative offensively and it is glaring since he had to follow Daboll.
Quote:
In comment 16128081 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
Are glad he left…..he was their weakest link.
They’d be wrong. McDermott gets some bonuses for program he runs up there but he largely was in charge of defense and ultimately deciding adjustments. Frazier was not always in total control and final say on defense even if he developed plans and called most defenses. McDermott is reaching a point as HC where sometimes messaging and discipline is becoming a problem and his mingling in with the defense caused issues last few years. I’d argue Dorsey showed a lot of warts as OC too last year. Allen was allowed to freelance and streetball a bit, they moved off standard run game at times, and it got him hurt a few times in games.
________________________
Interesting take and I can’t disagree. Frazier seemed to be stuck in a rut. Solid but not a brilliant defensive mind. Regarding Dorsey, I have always liked him because he is a Miami guy but he doesn’t appear to be very creative offensively and it is glaring since he had to follow Daboll.
Anarumo handed Dorsey his lunch in playoff game. In sloppy conditions, Dorsey looked clueless and offense was unprepared for what Bengals were doing. It wasn’t just the Bills defense that got pushed around. Allen and Dorsey looked painedand at a loss during the game. That’s just a death knell for any game never mind playoffs. They seemed to be overconfident based on being able to play opened up in the Miami game too.
I don’t blame Frazier really at all for this years loss. That defense was on fumes end of year and their secondary was showing signs of breaking too much. The collapse in KC year before was really more so but again that’s also on McDermott to share evenly.
Quote:
Are glad he left…..he was their weakest link.
They’d be wrong. McDermott gets some bonuses for program he runs up there but he largely was in charge of defense and ultimately deciding adjustments. Frazier was not always in total control and final say on defense even if he developed plans and called most defenses. McDermott is reaching a point as HC where sometimes messaging and discipline is becoming a problem and his mingling in with the defense caused issues last few years. I’d argue Dorsey showed a lot of warts as OC too last year. Allen was allowed to freelance and streetball a bit, they moved off standard run game at times, and it got him hurt a few times in games.
Ok, not trying to argue anything here, because the above is often the public perception of what happened in Buffalo, but this is not at all, and the tape tends to prove it. I caveat everything below with the fact that Frazier is an excellent DC, and would be an asset to any team. But the fit was not right.
McDermott and Frazier both came in, in 2017. Early on the Bills defense was a much more aggressive defense, especially in regards to blitzing and man coverage. During the first two years of Frazier and McDermott together, there were multiple occasions when McDermott took over defensive play calling, and unfortunately for Frazier, the defense generally looked better when he did. McDermott has a reputation for being a more aggressive play caller.
Over the past three seasons, the defense has been Frazier's to run and you can see the difference. Though the Bills always rank in the top 10 in pass defense, they gave up plenty of third and longs with good QBs taking advantage of Frazier's soft coverage schemes, with the KC playoff game being exhibit A, and the Bengals games last year being exhibit B. Lots of zone, not a lot of disguises, and not a lot of packages to create pressure. Even Bengals WRs commented about this. Over the past three seasons, the Bills defense has been good, but it has been soft and prone to giving up first downs on third downs they should win. During the past three seasons McDermott never took over play calling during a game.
There is no doubt, the Bills defense the last several seasons as more Frazier than McDermott. The two styles are in contrast.
McDermott is a Jim Johnson disciple, and every Giants fan who remembers the eagles defense of the early 2000s, remembers that defensive style. Aggressive, penetrating DTs, physical secondary. Sean McDermott learned under Johnson and brought that style of 4-3 defense to the Panthers.
There is no proof of this, but the speculation based on available evidence is that McDermott and Frazier have very different defensive philosophies and things had to change. Not to mention when you look at the Bills investments on defense, they fit the Jim Johnson/Sean McDermott approach, not the Leslie Frazier approach.
I do not agree that there is any evidence McDermott has a messaging or discipline problem. That team loves their HC. And after the Hamlin incident, they respect him and know he cares about them. I think that situation is fine, but is McDermott at the point where he needs to get to an AFC title game, ABSOLUTELY.
I agree on Ken Dorsey. The jury is still out. It wasn't that Allen was freelancing so much last year, as the Bills had NOTHING that consistently attacked the middle of the field. Not having Cole Beasley (or that type) of player really hurt the offense. There were no layups. If you look at the Bills' front office approach to this offseason, they brought in three players that can play the slot and work the middle of the field. But Dorsey has all eyes on him, for sure.
actually with Martindale. Pees was DC, Martindale LB coach.
Still they have coached together
@Miami 8 Oct
@Bills 15 Oct
Jets29 Oct
Pats 26 Mov
Frazier's experience with the Bills could be a useful addition to our Defence.
It all depends (and may not matter that much)
Passing Coordinator?
Assistant Head Coach?
Senior Defensive Assistant?
Note
Ryan Cowder is Executive Advisor to the General Manager and Dennis Hickey is Assistant Director of Player Personnel. One is a former GM and one a future GM, both seem to have roles bigger than their official job titles.
Schoen and Daboll are certainly able to attract talented people into the building.
I think we got the better coach in Daboll, hopefully we will find out soon.
@art_stapleton
·
4m
Been asked about Leslie Frazier visiting with #NYGiants and speculation about what it means. Here's what I have learned:
Not a job interview for Frazier with NYG. He's visiting teams. Yes, connections with Daboll, Schoen + Wink lead to conclusions, but I'm told this isn't that.
@art_stapleton
·
4m
Been asked about Leslie Frazier visiting with #NYGiants and speculation about what it means. Here's what I have learned:
Not a job interview for Frazier with NYG. He's visiting teams. Yes, connections with Daboll, Schoen + Wink lead to conclusions, but I'm told this isn't that.
mort stapleton nailed it.
Quote:
Are glad he left…..he was their weakest link.
He's regarded as one of the NFL's better defensive minds and actually interviewed for the NYG head coaching vacancy in 2022, along with Daboll.
Maybe so, but go to a decent Bills Messge Board and you will see a very vocal group of Bills Mafia not upset one bit at Frazier leaving this year. Too conservative for my liking too…didn’t we have that before Wink? (Graham) How did that work out for us? I think practically every team scored a TD on us just before halftime, no matter how much time they had to play with.
If you like Graham then I’m sure you will like Frazier. I don’t…..
You can have legitimate concerns of two different defensive styles, but most of the NFL plays bend but don't break now.
And equating Frazier, who has a long and proven track record of defensive success, with Graham, who does not, is just downright lazy.
You can have legitimate concerns of two different defensive styles, but most of the NFL plays bend but don't break now.
And equating Frazier, who has a long and proven track record of defensive success, with Graham, who does not, is just downright lazy.
Keep in mind that 5Bowls is a Bills fan, he has admitted as much. The "logical Bills fans" he's referring to are his own personal opinion.
McDermott and Frazier both came in, in 2017. Early on the Bills defense was a much more aggressive defense, especially in regards to blitzing and man coverage. During the first two years of Frazier and McDermott together, there were multiple occasions when McDermott took over defensive play calling, and unfortunately for Frazier, the defense generally looked better when he did. McDermott has a reputation for being a more aggressive play caller.
Over the past three seasons, the defense has been Frazier's to run and you can see the difference. Though the Bills always rank in the top 10 in pass defense, they gave up plenty of third and longs with good QBs taking advantage of Frazier's soft coverage schemes, with the KC playoff game being exhibit A, and the Bengals games last year being exhibit B. Lots of zone, not a lot of disguises, and not a lot of packages to create pressure. Even Bengals WRs commented about this. Over the past three seasons, the Bills defense has been good, but it has been soft and prone to giving up first downs on third downs they should win. During the past three seasons McDermott never took over play calling during a game.
There is no doubt, the Bills defense the last several seasons as more Frazier than McDermott. The two styles are in contrast.
McDermott is a Jim Johnson disciple, and every Giants fan who remembers the eagles defense of the early 2000s, remembers that defensive style. Aggressive, penetrating DTs, physical secondary. Sean McDermott learned under Johnson and brought that style of 4-3 defense to the Panthers.
There is no proof of this, but the speculation based on available evidence is that McDermott and Frazier have very different defensive philosophies and things had to change. Not to mention when you look at the Bills investments on defense, they fit the Jim Johnson/Sean McDermott approach, not the Leslie Frazier approach.
Sounds plausible to me. But if that's true, McDermott should shoulder some responsibility (as head coach and defensive guru) for a) hiring a coordinator whose style didn't fit the talent being assembled and b) not changing things up sooner.
To be fair to Frazier, Buffalo's D has had solid regular season showings, and he's an experienced hand who would be useful wherever he goes. I'm sure those playoff meltdowns are tough for Buffalo fans to swallow, though, so I'm not surprised he was scapegoated for it.
You can have legitimate concerns of two different defensive styles, but most of the NFL plays bend but don't break now.
And equating Frazier, who has a long and proven track record of defensive success, with Graham, who does not, is just downright lazy.
Eric, read Emil’s very detailed post that gives you a very honest evaluation of Frazier and his 5- 6 years stay in Buffalo. The man is spot on and if you don’t want to believe him, do your own research.
I surmise McDermott went to Frazier after the playoffs and said, “I don’t want to embarrass you so let’s do your good bye honorably…”……and now you see why he is running around available. And I fully support McDermott in this decision. Frazier had to go……just like Graham had to go.
I know some here on BBI wanted Graham to stay, but anybody who prefers Graham over Wink perhaps doesn’t know much about the nuances of football and what it takes to be successful. By the way, is there anyone out there praising Graham for his work last year? Was he taking many interviews for HC openings like Wink was? Just wondering….
Lastly, if Wink does get a HC job next year and we hire Frazier to replace him, we have taken a huge step backwards and get ready for mediocrity…..again.