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NFT: June 6 1944

Earl the goat : 6/6/2023 7:01 am
D-Day.
One of the most important days in US history
And the greatest generation
Thank you for our freedom
Thanks indeed!  
Sec 103 : 6/6/2023 7:11 am : link
Brass balls, can't muster anything else.
From the Time Ghost Channels (World War II)  
Klaatu : 6/6/2023 7:24 am : link
Enjoy.

D-Day 24 Hours - ( New Window )
Truly astounding...  
rnargi : 6/6/2023 8:01 am : link
we all owe a debt that can never be repaid.
RE: From the Time Ghost Channels (World War II)  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/6/2023 8:03 am : link
In comment 16128363 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Enjoy. D-Day 24 Hours - ( New Window )


Time Ghost! Those guys are awesome.
Always such an important and special day  
Stu11 : 6/6/2023 8:31 am : link
I can't imagine what it was like being on a boat approaching those beaches or in a plane getting ready to jump. I'm visiting Normandy in a little less than a month. Staying in Ouistreham. I'm looking very forward to it. Its definitely on the bucket list of trips I've wanted to take.
Both of my grandfathers served in WWII  
Chris684 : 6/6/2023 8:34 am : link
although they were not at Normandy Beach.

I have always been proud to have this day as my birthday. I was born in the 40th anniversary. The day of Reagan’s speech at Pointe du Hoc.
My grandfather was in the 29th infantry  
bigblue5611 : 6/6/2023 8:41 am : link
and part of the first wave to land at Omaha Beach. I still vividly remember him telling me a little about that day, and exactly describing those opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan well before that movie was even in production. Having to jump ship and make his way to shore due to the rough water (and gunfire), cutting 70-80lbs of gear off his back since it was making him sink and as he was getting closer to shore, feeling something hitting into the back of his leg only to look down and see it was a dead US soldier washing into the back of him.

Greatest Generation seems to be an understatement at times. Always thankful for them.
RE: RE: From the Time Ghost Channels (World War II)  
Klaatu : 6/6/2023 8:43 am : link
In comment 16128390 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16128363 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Enjoy. D-Day 24 Hours - ( New Window )



Time Ghost! Those guys are awesome.


They created this channel specifically for their D-Day coverage, with video length averaging about an hour. They'll have five-hour compilation videos on their main channel.
RE: Always such an important and special day  
rnargi : 6/6/2023 9:03 am : link
In comment 16128401 Stu11 said:
Quote:
I can't imagine what it was like being on a boat approaching those beaches or in a plane getting ready to jump. I'm visiting Normandy in a little less than a month. Staying in Ouistreham. I'm looking very forward to it. Its definitely on the bucket list of trips I've wanted to take.


Stu,

I'm planning a trip for next year. Had a buddy go a couple years ago, and he hooked up with a local who took him everywhere for a week. How are you doing the trip? Tour? Self guided? Looking for a local?
RE: RE: Always such an important and special day  
Stu11 : 6/6/2023 9:26 am : link
In comment 16128421 rnargi said:
Quote:
In comment 16128401 Stu11 said:


Quote:


I can't imagine what it was like being on a boat approaching those beaches or in a plane getting ready to jump. I'm visiting Normandy in a little less than a month. Staying in Ouistreham. I'm looking very forward to it. Its definitely on the bucket list of trips I've wanted to take.



Stu,

I'm planning a trip for next year. Had a buddy go a couple years ago, and he hooked up with a local who took him everywhere for a week. How are you doing the trip? Tour? Self guided? Looking for a local?

we're researching now its all kind of come together the last month or so as we had planned just a trip to England. Then I mentioned to my wife that if we're that close we should hit France and Normandy. We ended up splitting it up 4 nights in London, 2 nights in Normandy and a few nights in Paris. I think we are going to do Normandy more self guided as the public tours are really expensive and long. The local guide sounds interesting. I'm gonna research that.
RE: RE: RE: Always such an important and special day  
Klaatu : 6/6/2023 9:35 am : link
In comment 16128436 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 16128421 rnargi said:


Quote:


In comment 16128401 Stu11 said:


Quote:


I can't imagine what it was like being on a boat approaching those beaches or in a plane getting ready to jump. I'm visiting Normandy in a little less than a month. Staying in Ouistreham. I'm looking very forward to it. Its definitely on the bucket list of trips I've wanted to take.



Stu,

I'm planning a trip for next year. Had a buddy go a couple years ago, and he hooked up with a local who took him everywhere for a week. How are you doing the trip? Tour? Self guided? Looking for a local?


we're researching now its all kind of come together the last month or so as we had planned just a trip to England. Then I mentioned to my wife that if we're that close we should hit France and Normandy. We ended up splitting it up 4 nights in London, 2 nights in Normandy and a few nights in Paris. I think we are going to do Normandy more self guided as the public tours are really expensive and long. The local guide sounds interesting. I'm gonna research that.


A must-visit in Ouistreham:

Link - ( New Window )
Eisenhower's pre-battle message to the soldiers  
Greg from LI : 6/6/2023 9:42 am : link
Not just one of the most  
k2tampa : 6/6/2023 9:44 am : link
important dates in U.S. history. One of the most important dates in world history. Imagine if the Allies had never been able to get into Western Europe. Yeah, they probably would have eventually succeeded even if D-Day failed. But imagine a world where Germany (or the Soviet Union) controlled Europe.
The horror of being  
Bill in UT : 6/6/2023 9:50 am : link
part of that invasion is beyond comprehension. God bless them all
among the men there: Yogi Berra  
Greg from LI : 6/6/2023 9:55 am : link
He was a sailor who was a machine gunner on a landing support craft. Took a bullet in the hand during the action.
I rewtached Band of Brothers this Memorial Day  
Jim in Forest Hills : 6/6/2023 9:58 am : link
I have no connections to these men personally but I was so grateful for their bravery.
Can you imagine being on one of those landing craft  
Blue21 : 6/6/2023 10:37 am : link
and knowing when that ramp dropped what you were going to face maybe even your death? My Father landed on Omaha beach after the initial landing a few days later. He was wounded in combat in France. RIP Dad. Forever greatful and proud.
If you've ever seen the movie The Longest Day...  
Klaatu : 6/6/2023 10:59 am : link
You'll recognize the name "Rupert." In this video, British historian Mark Felton tells the story of the "Ruperts," and the men who accompanied them into France.

Quote:
In the early hours of June 6th, 1944, an extraordinary secret operation codenamed 'TITANIC' began in support of the Normandy Landings. Small teams of brave SAS were parachuted deep behind German lines along with hundreds of dummies, to make the Germans think that large parachute landings were underway - the ruse was designed to lure German forces away from the real parachute landing zones and the beaches. For the SAS who went with the dummies, for most of them 'TITANIC' was a one-way mission...


D-Day - The Forgotten SAS Operation - ( New Window )
Klaatu  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/6/2023 11:01 am : link
Mark Felton is another guy who I watch regularly.
RE: Klaatu  
Klaatu : 6/6/2023 11:41 am : link
In comment 16128539 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Mark Felton is another guy who I watch regularly.


So do I, but the first book of his that I read wasn't about WWII. It was about the Indian Wars in the American West.
1914 -1945  
djm : 6/6/2023 11:50 am : link
Should be drilled into every living soul as often as possible. Every single detail.
My Uncle stormed the beach  
bluesince56 : 6/6/2023 11:50 am : link
Got shot in knee. Went home. Had a limp the rest of his life. Many others weren’t so fortunate
RE: RE: RE: RE: Always such an important and special day  
Stu11 : 6/6/2023 12:22 pm : link
In comment 16128446 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 16128436 Stu11 said:


Quote:


In comment 16128421 rnargi said:


Quote:


In comment 16128401 Stu11 said:


Quote:


I can't imagine what it was like being on a boat approaching those beaches or in a plane getting ready to jump. I'm visiting Normandy in a little less than a month. Staying in Ouistreham. I'm looking very forward to it. Its definitely on the bucket list of trips I've wanted to take.



Stu,

I'm planning a trip for next year. Had a buddy go a couple years ago, and he hooked up with a local who took him everywhere for a week. How are you doing the trip? Tour? Self guided? Looking for a local?


we're researching now its all kind of come together the last month or so as we had planned just a trip to England. Then I mentioned to my wife that if we're that close we should hit France and Normandy. We ended up splitting it up 4 nights in London, 2 nights in Normandy and a few nights in Paris. I think we are going to do Normandy more self guided as the public tours are really expensive and long. The local guide sounds interesting. I'm gonna research that.



A must-visit in Ouistreham: Link - ( New Window )

Thanks! Will do. I think I'm going to research a self guided tour. We rented a car for that leg of the tour.
My father fought in the Pacific, on Okinawa...  
Klaatu : 6/6/2023 12:40 pm : link
Which, by the way, was a much larger operation that Overlord, but he used to scoff at the notion that his was "the greatest generation."

From a strictly American standpoint, was it any greater than the generation that fought in the Revolution, or in the Civil War, or colonized the West? This was not to diminish his generation's accomplishments, just to put them in perspective.
If you haven't read The Longest Day...  
Grey Pilgrim : 6/6/2023 12:53 pm : link
You should definitely pick it up.

Many amazing anecdotes...

God Bless America!
RE: I rewtached Band of Brothers this Memorial Day  
BocaGene : 6/6/2023 1:50 pm : link
In comment 16128468 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
I have no connections to these men personally but I was so grateful for their bravery.


I just started watching Bank of Brothers last night! Binged 5 episodes. I never watched it before as we had given up on HBO again. My dad was crew chief on a C47 and participated in Market Garden dropping paratroopers. September 1944 IIRC, he never thought much of Monty. Loved Eisenhower and Patton. His squadron carried many jerry cans to Patton. He was also convinced that Patton was setup and murdered.
Always a reflective day for me  
Vanzetti : 6/6/2023 2:14 pm : link
I'm named after my Mom's uncle, who died on the beach. Just 22 and had graduated from Yale three weeks earlier. His whole life was taken from him.

My dad's sister was married to this guy Stanley who had his legs blown off. He managed to live for over 30 more years but they could never completely stop the gangrene and he spent most of his later years as a double amputee in the VA hospital.

My Dad's oldest brother was also injured at Normandy.

There is a war memorial in Westchester. I think it's Pelham. They have stars next to the graduating HS seniors who died in WW II. It's about a third of the young men in the graduating class. Hard to believe.

One question I've always had...  
Klaatu : 6/6/2023 2:20 pm : link
Regarding the fighting immediately after the invasion, after the beachheads were established, was how could the Allies not have known about the hedgerows and the difficulties they'd cause? I never got that.

I know there's been some debate over the effectiveness of the bombing that preceded the invasion, but I've yet to see the hedgerow question discussed anywhere.
RE: One question I've always had...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/6/2023 2:22 pm : link
In comment 16128686 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Regarding the fighting immediately after the invasion, after the beachheads were established, was how could the Allies not have known about the hedgerows and the difficulties they'd cause? I never got that.

I know there's been some debate over the effectiveness of the bombing that preceded the invasion, but I've yet to see the hedgerow question discussed anywhere.


I think they felt they would breakout from the beachheads pretty quickly and avoid it.
RE: One question I've always had...  
bigblue5611 : 6/6/2023 2:27 pm : link
In comment 16128686 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Regarding the fighting immediately after the invasion, after the beachheads were established, was how could the Allies not have known about the hedgerows and the difficulties they'd cause? I never got that.

I know there's been some debate over the effectiveness of the bombing that preceded the invasion, but I've yet to see the hedgerow question discussed anywhere.


To Eric's point, they expected to be a mile inland by 8:30 (two hours after the start in the invasion). Instead, they only held 10 yards of beach by that time...
RE: RE: One question I've always had...  
Klaatu : 6/6/2023 2:47 pm : link
In comment 16128696 bigblue5611 said:
Quote:
In comment 16128686 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Regarding the fighting immediately after the invasion, after the beachheads were established, was how could the Allies not have known about the hedgerows and the difficulties they'd cause? I never got that.

I know there's been some debate over the effectiveness of the bombing that preceded the invasion, but I've yet to see the hedgerow question discussed anywhere.



To Eric's point, they expected to be a mile inland by 8:30 (two hours after the start in the invasion). Instead, they only held 10 yards of beach by that time...


But it was the hedgerows that held them up from day one. From an article I found:
Quote:
Hedge warfare began in the early hours of June 6, 1944, when American and Anglo-Canadian paratroopers and landed troops were immediately confronted with this vegetation. Allied gliders, loaded with men and equipment (ammunition, small vehicles, heavy weapons) hit the hedges in the same way that a car launched at full speed hits a wall: losses are worrying, material damage is also worrying .


It seems to me that whomever said the Allies - especially the Americans, as the article states - would be able to move a mile inland made a huge blunder that cost God knows how many lives. It's like they had no idea of the terrain, or if they did, completely dismissed its importance.


Hedgerow warfare during the Battle of Normandy - ( New Window )
Hedgerows  
Colin@gbn : 6/6/2023 3:13 pm : link
Eric, Klatu et al ... As others have said, it is simply hard to imagine what it was like coming in on the first landing craft. And while the whole operation could not have been carried out with the incredible contribution of the Americans, especially in the supply of material needed, while Omaha was clearly the toughest beach, there were in fact 5 beaches: 2 American, 2 British and one Canadian. And it annoys me to no end to this day that when they made The Longest Day movie back in the 1960s the Canadians - who had a beach - got mentioned twice in the entire 4-hour movie!

And speaking of the hedgerows I believe one of the most memorable movie scenes I can recall came in a small movie called A Foreign Field which came out in the early 1990s. It is the story of two groups - one British and one American - of families with a veteran travelling to Normandy. Its more comedy than drama but its not a bad movie for those that haven't seen it.

The movie opens with the two Brit veterans played by alec Guiness and Leo McKern (of Rumpole of the Bailey fame) taking the ferry over to Normandy. They drive off the ferry and end up at a vista overlooking this beautiful pictoresque valley. McKern turns to Guiness and all he says is: "God-damn hedgerows!"
RE: Always such an important and special day  
ColHowPepper : 6/6/2023 6:04 pm : link
In comment 16128401 Stu11 said:
Quote:
I can't imagine what it was like being on a boat approaching those beaches or in a plane getting ready to jump. I'm visiting Normandy in a little less than a month. Staying in Ouistreham. I'm looking very forward to it. Its definitely on the bucket list of trips I've wanted to take.
Cannot imagine. Excellent, Stu, I've always wanted to do the same. Read The Longest Day when I was in 8th grade, stayed vividly with me ever since. Just finished reading Ben Macintyre's Double Cross, about the double and triple agents whose most important task, after establishing their bona fides at great personal risk to their lives, was to convince the Wehrmacht and Abwehr that the invasion landing would come at Pas de Calais, or anywhere but the Normandy beaches. Had the German 5th deployed south in the spring or to assist once the invasion started, it would have been much more awful.

God rest those men's souls...cannot imagine
Huge day in our history  
Crazed Dogs : 6/6/2023 6:43 pm : link
the question these days is it being taught in our schools to kids.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/6/2023 6:47 pm : link
I couldn't even imagine storming those beaches.

& Eisenhower's letter if the invasion failed is an all time great letter in taking full responsbility.
RE: Huge day in our history  
Racer : 6/6/2023 9:32 pm : link
In comment 16128853 Crazed Dogs said:
Quote:
the question these days is it being taught in our schools to kids.


I'd put the over/under at 5% if you asked any Americans under 20 to point out the coastline where the D-Day invasion took place on a world map.

8% if you mentioned 'Normandy'.
I remember it and it was a very big deal. I kept  
carpoon : 6/6/2023 10:22 pm : link
newspapers periodically during most of the war and still have some of them.
I had two uncles killed in the war. One was killed flying the hump and the other died in a tank in Germany two weeks before VE Day. Sadly, he was an only child.
My dad spent 18 months in Stalag 17B  
Chip : 6/7/2023 8:48 am : link
and my mother did not know whether he was dead or alive for 6 weeks and found out just before christmas. I would have one Uncle who would die shortly after D day and another Uncle who would missing in action for 6 months in an italian hospital
RE: RE: Huge day in our history  
djm : 6/7/2023 1:42 pm : link
In comment 16128954 Racer said:
Quote:
In comment 16128853 Crazed Dogs said:


Quote:


the question these days is it being taught in our schools to kids.



I'd put the over/under at 5% if you asked any Americans under 20 to point out the coastline where the D-Day invasion took place on a world map.

8% if you mentioned 'Normandy'.


It is being taught--it was taught when I was a kid in the 80s. I didn't remember much but as I got older and wanted to learn, I learned. And continue to learn to this day.

It was and is definitely being taught. he average kid simply doesn't care enough.

What's the average adult's excuse?
to me  
djm : 6/7/2023 1:45 pm : link
the shit that should be taught or focused on isn't the name of some beach. It isn't the stories of heroism which obviously are amazing and should be respected. But we know people can act heroic in dark times.

It's how we got to that place in the first place. That is what should be taught and taught and taught and taught some more. Start with WW1 and how it ended. Focus on the treaty. Go from there. Slowly.
RE: to me  
Klaatu : 6/8/2023 8:19 am : link
In comment 16129348 djm said:
Quote:
the shit that should be taught or focused on isn't the name of some beach. It isn't the stories of heroism which obviously are amazing and should be respected. But we know people can act heroic in dark times.

It's how we got to that place in the first place. That is what should be taught and taught and taught and taught some more. Start with WW1 and how it ended. Focus on the treaty. Go from there. Slowly.


History did not begin in 1914. While there's little doubt that the uneasy, and in many ways contemptible conclusion to The Great War left smoldering embers which would eventually ignite the unimaginable firestorm that was World War II, the roots of European hostilities, militarism, (and I daresay barbarism) run much deeper than that. Certainly more than a twenty-year span. More like a thousand years of an often cataclysmic struggle for hegemonic dominance..

From Hiram Maxim, the "Father of the Machine Gun," quoted by Malcolm Browne in the New York Times:
Quote:
Maxim was reported to have said: "In 1882 I was in Vienna, where I met an American whom I had known in the States. He said: 'Hang your chemistry and electricity! If you want to make a pile of money, invent something that will enable these Europeans to cut each others' throats with greater facility.'


Wise words. They earned Maxim a Knighthood. I wonder, though, if they cost him a place in Heaven.

George Washington knew this a century earlier when he advised Americans to avoid "foreign entanglements." He knew of the propensity of the European states to make war upon each other, because they'd been doing it, gladly, for all of recorded history, with a variety of provocations, and a seemingly endless parade of demagogues ready to exploit them. If he had lived to see Solferino, as well as Sedan, the Somme, or Stalingrad, I doubt he would have been surprised.

We remember the wars of the 20th Century more vividly because they were filmed and photographed, and because many of us still have a personal connection, but were they any more horrific than, say, The Thirty Years War (1618-1648)? In scope, sure, because of the advancements in technology, but I don't think it matters much if your village was destroyed by aerial bombardment or by mercenaries wielding pikes and swords. Death is still death. Starvation and disease will be ever present.

Sadly, nothing is as constant as man's penchant for inflicting brutality on his fellow man.
RE: Hedgerows  
Klaatu : 6/8/2023 10:37 am : link
In comment 16128725 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
Eric, Klatu et al ... As others have said, it is simply hard to imagine what it was like coming in on the first landing craft. And while the whole operation could not have been carried out with the incredible contribution of the Americans, especially in the supply of material needed, while Omaha was clearly the toughest beach, there were in fact 5 beaches: 2 American, 2 British and one Canadian. And it annoys me to no end to this day that when they made The Longest Day movie back in the 1960s the Canadians - who had a beach - got mentioned twice in the entire 4-hour movie!


Well, at least the Canadians got two mentions. There were soldiers, sailors, and airmen from seven or eight other countries on the Allied side who weren't mentioned at all. By the way, if you search the archives, you'll find a post I made a while back regarding the outstanding performance of Canadian armor units in the Italian campaign.

Anyway...about The Longest Day, the book and the movie. Some of what Ryan wrote (especially that which made it into the movie) has come under serious scrutiny in recent years, and quite a bit has been questioned. For example, Paul Woodadge, WW2TV YT Channel, maintains that the story of paratrooper John Steele (played by Red Buttons in the movie) hanging from the church steeple in Sainte-Mere-Eglise was a total fabrication, and Woodadge presents a pretty strong case to back up his assertion. Yet the story persists, and Steele and the Airborne Museum remain hugely popular. It reminds me of the line from The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance: "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Here's a link...  
Grey Pilgrim : 6/8/2023 12:31 pm : link
A great Read.
https://www.amazon.com/Longest-Day-Classic-Epic-D-Day/dp/0671890913/ref=sr_1_1?crid=QBJ5GALWJAW8&keywords=the+longest+day+book+by+cornelius+ryan&qid=1686241843&s=movies-tv&sprefix=The+Longest+Day+book%2Cmovies-tv%2C63&sr=1-1-catcorr - ( New Window )
From Amazon...  
Grey Pilgrim : 6/8/2023 1:52 pm : link
The unparalleled, classic work of history that recreates the battle that changed World War II—the Allied invasion of Normandy.

The Longest Day is Cornelius Ryan’s unsurpassed account of D-Day, a book that endures as a masterpiece of military history. In this compelling tale of courage and heroism, glory and tragedy, Ryan painstakingly recreates the fateful hours that preceded and followed the massive invasion of Normandy to retell the story of an epic battle that would turn the tide against world fascism and free Europe from the grip of Nazi Germany.

This book, first published in 1959, is a must for anyone who loves history, as well as for anyone who wants to better understand how free nations prevailed at a time when darkness enshrouded the earth.
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