Jalin Hyatt maturity/coachability concerns?

but "some arrogance" in a wide receiver is a GOOD thing.

with all due respect, what rookie "totally gets it as far as being a pro"?

Again, see Bill Walsh's book with an entire chapter dedicated to the subject.

Wide receiver being arrogant isn't new nor won't go away.

Him being overly confident in his ability sounds like the little situation where the Cowboys coach said he was just fast.

an individual’s take on the draft, team’s talent and so on..Given that I haven’t read anything about such concerns, I’ll take it as an outlier..I’m certain Schoen/Dabes/scouts vetted him rather well..

nice, polite young man. And I agree with Eric's point about "some arrogance" being fine. When you're honestly aware of your own talent, is that really arrogance?

for not having it all figured out in his early twenties. Clearly a slacker

Hyatt seems like a good kid, and I think he landed in the right spot, on a team that will make the most of his abilities.

In comment 16128374 Klaatu said:

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Hyatt seems like a good kid, and I think he landed in the right spot, on a team that will make the most of his abilities.

This

although those reasons are weak. All it takes is one comment to turn someone off, could have been anything.

We all criticized that anonymous scout when he said that Eli Apple couldn't cook. Like what kind of shit is that? Well, after we saw how involved his mom was and how he dealt with certain things, that cooking quote came with a new outlook by fans.

I'm not saying Hyatt will not be a great pro. I agree with Eric when he says you want these kids having some arrogance. I get what the exec is saying. I do. You want someone who will listen to constructive criticism and improve who they are. We know that one video with the Dallas Cowboys coach was leaked. I had no problem with that. I wouldn't say that is him being uncoachable as it was a "I'm gonna prove you wrong" response. From the interviews we've seen he looks like he wants to take to coaching and improve his craft. All I am saying is I can see how the kid comes off as having all the answers where some would be turned off by that. I wouldn't go that far with describing him like that. He seems more like the kid that when you tell him he can't do something that he is trying to prove you wrong. Remember, all these meetings were job interviews. He trying to show people that he is more than just what they saw on video at Tennessee. He's trying to sell himself to these teams. That is a different environment than a team drafting you and your coaches wanting you to get better at all aspects of your game. He isn't trying to improve his draft stock anymore.

We'll see soon enough if this exec was right or wrong though.

I want my skill players to have confidence in themselves. OBJ didn't get his mulit-million dollar contract from the Jets being a wallflower.

Please. Sounds like that executive had an axe to grind and called the first person who would listen.

There would be nothing better than Hiatt being one of the steals of the draft a few years on.

already

.

to connect with the kid and get him ready for the pros.

Challenging the Dallas receivers coach, and not because it's Dallas. Everyone wants to talk about coachability and his attitude, no one wants to point out the disrespect of that left handed compliment directed to a player the coach had no rapport or history with. "You know what you are, right?". Screw that guy.

Look, maybe Hyatt does have some arrogance and that WR mentality in him. First of all, I hope so. Second, I trust this staff to mold young players.

I’ll admit the response to the coach in that video clip sort of turned me off a bit but I got over it.

What I don’t get is - these scouts want corners to be alphas and have this dog mentality but that’s not ok/annoying when a receiver does it? Certainly a double standard.

I love how he says he’s talented and obviously has elite speed and then talks about what he doesn’t like about him. Typically a talented kid with an elite trait would be coveted by lots of teams.

All I really care about as a fan is - is the guy gonna work hard, catch the ball, be a good teammate, and generally not be injury prone.

checks out, you can take the calculated risk with that type of personality.

Once you start to see signs of bad off-field decision-making and surrounding oneself with all the wrong people, that is many times more concerning to me.

To have heard and seen what a lot of these executives/ GM's had to say about Tom Brady when he got drafted.

Everyone has opinions and that is why draft boards by teams and even draft experts vary so much. Joe schoen and daboll thought highly enough to consider drafting him in the 2nd round. They certainly thought high of him to trade up in the 3rd to get him.

We will see. I have seen nothing so far from Hyatt to indicate that he is arrogant to the point that he feels that he doesn't need coaching.

Robbie, that’s a good call about Apple. These scouts can see real life things and then translate that to how these players are going to react or work in a professional setting.

The fact that Apple didn’t really do things on his own - yeah - you can brush that off at first - but there’s a reason teams do psychological evaluations and have certain opinions. Every player in rounds 1-4 is fairly talented. Figuring out which players are going to make it is really tough.

that’s pretty much any player though, right? What if Hyatt works hard, gives his all, is beloved by coaches but just isn’t performing? Don’t think that means this exec was right.

In comment 16128382 j_rud said:

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Challenging the Dallas receivers coach, and not because it's Dallas. Everyone wants to talk about coachability and his attitude, no one wants to point out the disrespect of that left handed compliment directed to a player the coach had no rapport or history with. "You know what you are, right?". Screw that guy. Look, maybe Hyatt does have some arrogance and that WR mentality in him. First of all, I hope so. Second, I trust this staff to mold young players.

I agree

In comment 16128380 BigBlue7 said:

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.

Yup.

In that case, the draft wouldn't exist...in ANY sport. What a BS "report."

In comment 16128391 UConn4523 said:

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that’s pretty much any player though, right? What if Hyatt works hard, gives his all, is beloved by coaches but just isn’t performing? Don’t think that means this exec was right.

I'm not sure what you mean by that could be anybody. Isn't that what we are talking about here? Yes, this is about Hyatt but most of these things are blanket outlooks for all draft picks. What I am saying is that we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss someone else's opinion because we disagree with it. It also doesn't make the guy right either but these guys have way more access to these players to formulate their opinions than we do. Doesn't mean it is correct though.

Again, these kids are fighting for a job. There is a fine line between proving what you can do and not taking to coaching. If you are there to sell yourself, some people will take that as not listening because you are so focused on proving you are more than a straight line guy. Others will go into these interviews listening. This has more to do with how agents prep them for these meetings than anything else.

From our vantage point, he does seem coachable from his interviews. He isn't backed into a corner trying to defend himself anymore. I will say this though, a person's true colors don't shine when everything is great. They come out when shit hits the fan so hopefully we got a huge steal that the rest of the NFL missed out on.

how about they get Hyatt in camp and see what he does? I see a lot of players taking ownership of the "culture" that the team is trying to build. There is nothing better than peer pressure to make an impression on a young player. The players will not tolerate slackers when they are trying to get to the next level.
It may not even be needed. I doubt Daboll and Schoen would draft a player they thought would be difficult.

I will say this. Daboll has a pretty unique knack to appear to be “one of the guys” and a players coach and also be a hard ass. That’s a very hard balance to achieve and I think he has it.

This is why someone like Hyatt will love Daboll I think. Hell, Daboll has a bit of arrogance to him too - but he is grounded in the right principles.

In comment 16128382 j_rud said:

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Challenging the Dallas receivers coach, and not because it's Dallas. Everyone wants to talk about coachability and his attitude, no one wants to point out the disrespect of that left handed compliment directed to a player the coach had no rapport or history with. "You know what you are, right?". Screw that guy. Look, maybe Hyatt does have some arrogance and that WR mentality in him. First of all, I hope so. Second, I trust this staff to mold young players.

+1

unless there is some narrative about the player that causes him to fall. Of all the things that have made people fall immaturity is the most "curable". Hell, even Eli Apple overcame his immaturity by year three. I think Hyatt dropping to the third round probably made him grow up a lot.

was available when round 3 started.

In comment 16128364 Eric from BBI said:

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but "some arrogance" in a wide receiver is a GOOD thing.

Forget good or bad don't a lot of elite athletes have that too? And just about all WRs. Sounds nit picky

In comment 16128405 WillieYoung said:

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unless there is some narrative about the player that causes him to fall. Of all the things that have made people fall immaturity is the most "curable". Hell, even Eli Apple overcame his immaturity by year three. I think Hyatt dropping to the third round probably made him grow up a lot.

Did he? He's still a douche on the Bengals.

In comment 16128405 WillieYoung said:

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unless there is some narrative about the player that causes him to fall. Of all the things that have made people fall immaturity is the most "curable". Hell, even Eli Apple overcame his immaturity by year three. I think Hyatt dropping to the third round probably made him grow up a lot.

Justin Tuck must have had some of that arrogance then.

is the Cowboys coach questioning his route running ability that we saw in the video from the combine or pro day (can't remember which).

my point is that he’s a 3rd rounder and they all have warts. I’m dismissing it because it seems like sour grapes with little substance, just buzzwords. And Hyatt not working out doesn’t = this exec being right.

Hyatt has a lot of work to do and seems like he will put the time in. And even then it’s going to be hard for him to make it in the league. Not going to pat an executive on the back for a 3rd rounder not working out.

I think this is likely a nothingburger.

I also thought Toney's aloofness and Team Beckham recruiting everyone in the world to school him on not betting a big head was nothing too.

Sometimes quick observations by league professionals are nothing, sometimes they aren't.

Doesn't sound like a kid who has it all figured out.


I always take action over words

I'd set a new standard of arrogance. But that's just me. I don't see it at all with Hyatt. And what the hell is "squirrelly," anyway?

To Eric's point, is a fine line.

In Hyatt's case, dozens of teams and reporters continually harped on "can't run whole route tree." By the 20th time he said "I can run all the routes - they just never asked me to" he probably had a big chip on his shoulder. And one guy of dozens was bound to take his answer the wrong way anyway.

He was a 3rd round pick because that is where he stands as a prospect based on his film, his size/speed combination, and how he interviewed. This is how the league saw him and that includes the Giants who were needy enough at WR that they wouldn't've waited so long before moving up for him if they had anything even close to a 1st round grade on him. When asked if he was in the conversation when they were on the clock in round 2, all Schoen would say is that he was within range (which is not the same as being in the conversation). So if he was merely within range of their late 2nd round pick, that's like saying they had an early 3rd round grade on him.

All this is to point out that the Giants may have had the same opinion on his maturity as those saying he was "squirrely and naive" but it didn't prevent them from trading up for him because their need was great and at that point in the draft, value and need were simpatico. The Giants don't need him to be a starter in order to justify his selection. If he is a force in three-WR sets, that's good enough. Mario Manningham never became a starter for the Giants but his value as a #3 receiver justified his late 3rd round selection.

p.s.--Boylhart gave him a 3rd round grade with a profile that is probably consistent with the opinion of NFL scouts...

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Jalin will need to bulk up if he wants to be a top receiver in the NFL. He will also have to prove he can catch contested passes and handle “in-your-face”, physical corners who will challenge him at the line of scrimmage. He has to prove that he is more than just a specialty receiver who at this point is very one-dimensional. Nevertheless, he has proven that he can catch the uncontested deep ball and teams will be impressed with that ability no doubt.

full profile - ( New Window )

In comment 16128364 Eric from BBI said:

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but "some arrogance" in a wide receiver is a GOOD thing.

Agreed, but I think it's the "I've got all the answers" part that might be a concern.

It sounds like the executives are rationalizing why they did not select Hyatt.

Hyatt's athletic ability is beyond reproach so there must be a reason that he fell to the third round.

This is a pre-emptive attempt to cover their collective asses.
There must be pressure on them to justify why they did not select Hyatt.

When Hyatt becomes a star, they can default to their stated concerns about his personality. This seems quite hollow as many players such as Jalen Carter were selected in the first round with serious off the field issues.

In comment 16128428 k2tampa said:

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In comment 16128364 Eric from BBI said: Quote: but "some arrogance" in a wide receiver is a GOOD thing. Agreed, but I think it's the "I've got all the answers" part that might be a concern.

I don't see it as a concern. I see it as someone who asked questions and was annoyed that he didn't get the answers he expected. I see it as someone who didn't like having his preconceived notions challenged.

In comment 16128423 HBart said:

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To Eric's point, is a fine line. In Hyatt's case, dozens of teams and reporters continually harped on "can't run whole route tree." By the 20th time he said "I can run all the routes - they just never asked me to" he probably had a big chip on his shoulder. And one guy of dozens was bound to take his answer the wrong way anyway.

Bingo

Watching Hyatt's PCs and his draft video, he seemed to take everything in stride. I dont expect 2st rd production from a 3rd rounder. Feet wet the first year with a lot of WRs fighting for time.

In comment 16128378 GiantBlue said:

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I want my skill players to have confidence in themselves. OBJ didn't get his mulit-million dollar contract from the Jets being a wallflower. Please. Sounds like that executive had an axe to grind and called the first person who would listen. There would be nothing better than Hiatt being one of the steals of the draft a few years on.

OBJ got his contract from what team?

And is "Hyatt" really that difficult to spell?

together. To me, they are contradictions. So he has a chip on his shoulder, so what? Jalen was probably asked about the route tree 1,000 times in the pre-draft process, no wonder he’s tired of hearing about it.

His coached at Tenn spoke really highly of him and his work ethic, and while they could have been blowing some smoke to help his draft status, I’m going to hold off on passing judgement until I see him play in blue.

he sounded like a really respectful young man.

In comment 16128371 Big Blue '56 said:

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an individual’s take on the draft, team’s talent and so on..Given that I haven’t read anything about such concerns, I’ll take it as an outlier..I’m certain Schoen/Dabes/scouts vetted him rather well..

If it's true, it's no longer just an opinion :)

They drafted Jalin Hyatt.
They didn't draft Kadarius Toney and he's no longer on the team.
I'm all good with that.

especially underclassman who got a lot of attention for whatever reason and come out early.



the innuendo could be true but so far schoen and daboll have earned benefit of doubt. and we know they didnt make a scramble pick - they visited with him, were ready to pick him a round earlier than they did over several other good wrs, and aggressively moved up to take him.

In comment 16128451 Section331 said:

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together. To me, they are contradictions. So he has a chip on his shoulder, so what? Jalen was probably asked about the route tree 1,000 times in the pre-draft process, no wonder he’s tired of hearing about it. His coached at Tenn spoke really highly of him and his work ethic, and while they could have been blowing some smoke to help his draft status, I’m going to hold off on passing judgement until I see him play in blue.

As high school teacher who's married to an elementary school teacher, I see "squirrelly" and "naive" as consistent. It suggests he's like he's a 3rd grader who can't sit still, doesn't wait for directions, and often screws things up by diving in because he THINKS he knows what he's supposed to do. And, worse, because of these two traits he doesn't learn from his mistakes as quickly as he should.

I don't like labeling the guy like this, and I doubt its accuracy (given what his coaches said), but I don't see the two adjectives as inconsistent.

Let's assume the criticism is legit. He is a 3rd round WR selection.
Then don't compare him to early first round WRs!
How will he do compared to other WRs selected in the 3rd round.
In Joe we Trust.

In comment 16128424 Milton said:

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He was a 3rd round pick because that is where he stands as a prospect based on his film, his size/speed combination, and how he interviewed. This is how the league saw him and that includes the Giants who were needy enough at WR that they wouldn't've waited so long before moving up for him if they had anything even close to a 1st round grade on him. When asked if he was in the conversation when they were on the clock in round 2, all Schoen would say is that he was within range (which is not the same as being in the conversation). So if he was merely within range of their late 2nd round pick, that's like saying they had an early 3rd round grade on him. All this is to point out that the Giants may have had the same opinion on his maturity as those saying he was "squirrely and naive" but it didn't prevent them from trading up for him because their need was great and at that point in the draft, value and need were simpatico. The Giants don't need him to be a starter in order to justify his selection. If he is a force in three-WR sets, that's good enough. Mario Manningham never became a starter for the Giants but his value as a #3 receiver justified his late 3rd round selection. p.s.--Boylhart gave him a 3rd round grade with a profile that is probably consistent with the opinion of NFL scouts... Quote: Jalin will need to bulk up if he wants to be a top receiver in the NFL. He will also have to prove he can catch contested passes and handle “in-your-face”, physical corners who will challenge him at the line of scrimmage. He has to prove that he is more than just a specialty receiver who at this point is very one-dimensional. Nevertheless, he has proven that he can catch the uncontested deep ball and teams will be impressed with that ability no doubt. full profile - ( New Window )

Watch the giants video (draft season). It shows daboll and schoen discussing the 2nd round pick. It was going to be Hyatt or JMS. It is not assumption or Hyatt being an afterthought. They valued him enough to draft him if JMS was not available. Then they traded up in the 3rd to get him. They gave up considerable compensation as well (their 3rd and 4th round picks).

It's not as if the anonymous exec said "we took him off our draft board." He was downgraded because of it, just like all prospects that move up and down a draft board based on interviews. Schoen may share the same opinion as the anonymous executive and that's why he was selected in round 3 instead of earlier.

thrilled we got him. What do I know? Nothing! But I read the scout reports from Sy on both players before the draft and saw and read the way both players carried themselves in their first practices or in Toney's case lack of and determined my early opinions. I think I m going to be correct on both players regardless of the type of player Toney turns out to be.

In comment 16128399 Optimus-NY said:

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In comment 16128382 j_rud said: Quote: Challenging the Dallas receivers coach, and not because it's Dallas. Everyone wants to talk about coachability and his attitude, no one wants to point out the disrespect of that left handed compliment directed to a player the coach had no rapport or history with. "You know what you are, right?". Screw that guy. Look, maybe Hyatt does have some arrogance and that WR mentality in him. First of all, I hope so. Second, I trust this staff to mold young players.. +1

+2

coachable. This is a unfair article. I think Hyatt responded in the best way, I would want my player to give a response to a comment like that, from someone he doesn't know. If you have pride in yourself that is what you do. I don't think you can make the NFL without a "chip on the shoulder" attitude.

anonymous character assassination that the sports media continuously enables about these young men. This young man not done a single thing to attack his character. Pathetic.

I was hoping the Giants would draft mild and meek players.

who knows if anyone really said this. Who knows maybe it's a team that is worried about covering him.

He grew up near Columbia SC and played college football in Knoxville TN. I've spent some time in both places. New York City they are not. I think any 22 year old with that background could have a lot of real world catching up to do.

I think a player with his physical gifts has landed in the right place. He's going to get a chance to play for an excellent coaching staff that will know how to highlight his skills. I think if he's coachable with his speed and hands he can quickly make an impact - if he picks up the mental/professional side of the NFL.

The NFL draft site listed him as a round 1 or 2 pick with boom or bust potential seems fair to me. Next Gen rated him as the top receiver in this draft. I'm excited to see him play. I think he's going to boom.

all the incentive the young man should need.

The fact that he does not have a nose ring is all the incentive that I need to support him as a Giant.

In comment 16128364 Eric from BBI said:

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but "some arrogance" in a wide receiver is a GOOD thing.

Wr a bit arrogant. Shocker

In comment 16128381 mfsd said:

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to connect with the kid and get him ready for the pros.

Kids are allowed to mature as they get acclimated. Some do, some don’t
Not everyone a man at 21. I sure wasn’t
It may have taken till 40 for me :)

In comment 16128428 k2tampa said:

Quote:

In comment 16128364 Eric from BBI said: Quote: but "some arrogance" in a wide receiver is a GOOD thing. Agreed, but I think it's the "I've got all the answers" part that might be a concern.

Sometimes u need to be humbled and see that u don’t
It’s where you go from there that matters

Hyatt strikes me more as goofy and quirky, than arrogant.

Unrelated he looks like 16-year-old. Especially compared to Thibs when we came out last year, who looks liked a grown ass man.

at the workout before the draft was why he dropped to the 3rd, then I am even more excited about him. I don't have an issue with him at all saying he wasn't just a speed guy. I like the chip on the shoulder.

In comment 16128533 arniefez said:

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who knows if anyone really said this. Who knows maybe it's a team that is worried about covering him. He grew up near Columbia SC and played college football in Knoxville TN. I've spent some time in both places. New York City they are not. I think any 22 year old with that background could have a lot of real world catching up to do. I think a player with his physical gifts has landed in the right place. He's going to get a chance to play for an excellent coaching staff that will know how to highlight his skills. I think if he's coachable with his speed and hands he can quickly make an impact - if he picks up the mental/professional side of the NFL. The NFL draft site listed him as a round 1 or 2 pick with boom or bust potential seems fair to me. Next Gen rated him as the top receiver in this draft. I'm excited to see him play. I think he's going to boom.

Good post. There are shadow games played in the media all the time. This seems like one.

In comment 16128454 barens said:

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he sounded like a really respectful young man.

His parents are classy people. Both are teachers and former athletes. Both of their sons are football players and their dad played two sports (hoops and cycling). Heck, Jalen's dad is a H.S. Basketball coach too. This young fella comes from an ideal home.

In comment 16128580 christian said:

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Hyatt strikes me more as goofy and quirky, than arrogant. Unrelated he looks like 16-year-old. Especially compared to Thibs when we came out last year, who looks liked a grown ass man.

This is good take, with both players.

They were ready to take him in the second. I'll take that opinion over an unnamed exec.

Seriously. It's no news season. Beat guys have to make a story out of a portion of a conversation with an unnamed exec. There is a possibility that he is immature and will struggle initially because of it, for sure. Eli Apple sure did before he settled into a not great but still playing NFL career. Prince Amukamura did too. But there's not a lot to this story. He's a bubbly kid with swagger. Of course he's gonna have to do some growing up because he's in a man's league now. I wouldn't get worked up by this story angle until the beats are rumbling about his demeanor during the season.

And to me, the biggest reason he slipped to the third is his route running, strength and lack of shiftiness. The first two can be coached into a hell of a player if he's up for the work.

In comment 16128629 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16128580 christian said: Quote: Hyatt strikes me more as goofy and quirky, than arrogant. Unrelated he looks like 16-year-old. Especially compared to Thibs when we came out last year, who looks liked a grown ass man. This is good take, with both players.

Hyatt remind more of a kid I would see in town skateboarding. Thibs looks like he's going to sell me term life insurance.

It's amazing these two are a few years apart in age.

In comment 16128451 Section331 said:

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together. To me, they are contradictions. So he has a chip on his shoulder, so what? Jalen was probably asked about the route tree 1,000 times in the pre-draft process, no wonder he’s tired of hearing about it. His coached at Tenn spoke really highly of him and his work ethic, and while they could have been blowing some smoke to help his draft status, I’m going to hold off on passing judgement until I see him play in blue.

I agree. I did not understand the two terms of "naïve" and "squirrley" placed together. It does sound like a contradiction. I think whoever made that comment was trying to confabulate these two terms just to make him sound bad.

Around the 5:30 mark of the interview (below), during his sophomore year the HC called him out that he needed to ‘grow up’. Right after that he said that Hyatt became a leader in his final year.

So there definitely was some smoke (HC’s don’t typically say negative things about their players) but hopefully it was a learning experience.

BBV TN sportswriter interview - ( New Window )

In comment 16128533 arniefez said:

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Who knows maybe it's a team that is worried about covering him.

You say a lot of weird stuff, but the idea that a scout from a team that's worried about covering him is going to plant an anonymous comment about a 3rd round pick just because they're scared of him seems like it might top the list, even for you.

I don't think he fell to the 3rd round because they thought he was really a kicker named Duncan Pinderhughes

I sure hope he’s got attitude! This game is not for the meek and mild. Same thing probably was said about Jerry Rice coming out of college!😂

into the majority of people you are going to find some flags. How relevant they are is part of the evaluation when coming to a decision.

Schoen said he has known the UT HC for over ten years going way back to when he was a area scout and JH was a position coach at OU. He considers him a friend.

Hyatt is now a NY Giant and that is all that matters to me.

Be a great teammate and make big plays.

.
we don't need no stinkin' route tree - ( New Window )