Always was going to end this way, makes to much sense..Seems like the golfers who took the money are going to make out big time.. Link - ( New Window )
the lower ranked guys who $ are probably going to have to re-qualify for their cards may have a tougher time. everything will probably work itself out in time pretty close to how things would have gone but remember, all the rule changes demanded by the players greatly favored those ranked in the top 50 or so the little guys (non-top 50's) probably ended up the biggest losers whether they took liv $ or not. credit to the guys who had the competitive drive to stay on the real tour more than anything else.
will be interesting to see the details of everything, the term "merger" seems very kind. I would imagine the pga retains control but took a very big check and in return is putting a few tournaments in KSA. and greg norman is screaming into a pillow in his palace in riyadh right now that he got fucked again.
good news for everyone that just wanted to see the best players play golf.
He was hating not being on your and now he’s back with $125 million in the bank.
Have to imagine the PGA does some sort of payout to Rory and Scheffler, right?
just a guess but i would think settlement $ here gets some kind of distribution to players on tour who chose to stay and will probably be divided on some kind of formula based on rankings.
Shocking that it really is and has always been about money - regardless of where it comes from. Hypocrites all of them.
for some it wasn't all about the money - like the players who turned down money because they cared about competitive golf. for the majority of fans that was the biggest problem with the liv threat. it was shitty purposeless golf which is why it folded almost instantaneously despite infinite resources.
PGA was too controlling. I never watched any liv golf, and admired guys like Rory who stayed away, but I understood why those guys left, besides the money
and mostly seized on by people who aren't even fans of golf in the first place (again both sides).
the pga's reason for existing is professional competitive golf in a system that they've built over 100 years.
anyone that threatens that system for them is an enemy whether it's a group of nuns or somali pirates. same is true for anyone who is a fan of the pga tour.
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
the pga's reason for existing is professional competitive golf in a system that they've built over 100 years.
anyone that threatens that system for them is an enemy whether it's a group of nuns or somali pirates. same is true for anyone who is a fan of the pga tour.
100%. Shades of the American League-National League schism of 130 years ago.
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
Per ESPN:
"PIF will be the exclusive investor in the new entity and will have the "exclusive right to further invest in the new enterprise, including a right of first refusal on any capital invested.""
PIF is the Saudi Arabian "Public Investment Fund." It does sound like they are the buyer in this transaction.
Shocking that it really is and has always been about money - regardless of where it comes from. Hypocrites all of them.
for some it wasn't all about the money - like the players who turned down money because they cared about competitive golf. for the majority of fans that was the biggest problem with the liv threat. it was shitty purposeless golf which is why it folded almost instantaneously despite infinite resources.
They "folded"? "Competitive golf"? Laughable. The PGA was threatening the players with being banned.
This is a merger and the head of the SAPIF is going to be chairman of the Board. The PGA lawyers must really not have liked what they were seeing in the antitrust suit.
Shocking that it really is and has always been about money - regardless of where it comes from. Hypocrites all of them.
for some it wasn't all about the money - like the players who turned down money because they cared about competitive golf. for the majority of fans that was the biggest problem with the liv threat. it was shitty purposeless golf which is why it folded almost instantaneously despite infinite resources.
They "folded"? "Competitive golf"? Laughable. The PGA was threatening the players with being banned.
This is a merger and the head of the SAPIF is going to be chairman of the Board. The PGA lawyers must really not have liked what they were seeing in the antitrust suit.
in your infinite non-laughable wisdom what do you think the pga tour was threatening the players with being banned from, that as it turns out, many chose over money?
had one foot out the door and the PGA wanted to avoid the terrible press that would occur if they left. But the PGA still gets terrible press anyway
Most of Rahm's comments about LIV were positive and Rory went mum on LIV recently. I think they might have known and the rest of the PGA Tour top players didn't
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
Per ESPN:
"PIF will be the exclusive investor in the new entity and will have the "exclusive right to further invest in the new enterprise, including a right of first refusal on any capital invested.""
PIF is the Saudi Arabian "Public Investment Fund." It does sound like they are the buyer in this transaction.
i dont have any more understanding of the details than what's been released publicly so far so it's possible the PGA tour gave up all control, but my guess is that they didnt and they just took what is effectively an enormous sponsorship and defused a threat. which was always the most probable outcome with the unlimited $ the ksa seemed willing to throw around in this.
whether it's amex or hyundai or bmw or schwab or whoever, any commercial organization is willing to trade access/influence for $. that's why nfl games can be flexed on thursdays and why there are patches on mlb uniforms. the question with this deal like any is figuring out how much either side gave up and my guess (which is just based on the leverage either side had) the pga probably got a good deal. without knowing anything beyond what's come out so far that could be a total misread.
is that LIV is somehow connected to Jack Smith's special counsel investigation into Donald Trump's handling of classified documents. There was recent news about Smith looking into Trump's connections with LIV in what amounted to a quid pro quo. Do not make it political beyond that
had one foot out the door and the PGA wanted to avoid the terrible press that would occur if they left. But the PGA still gets terrible press anyway
Most of Rahm's comments about LIV were positive and Rory went mum on LIV recently. I think they might have known and the rest of the PGA Tour top players didn't
Rory probably knew the deal was coming, i think thats part kf why he skipped the ezclusive event a couple of weeks ago and took the fine..
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
Per ESPN:
"PIF will be the exclusive investor in the new entity and will have the "exclusive right to further invest in the new enterprise, including a right of first refusal on any capital invested.""
PIF is the Saudi Arabian "Public Investment Fund." It does sound like they are the buyer in this transaction.
i dont have any more understanding of the details than what's been released publicly so far so it's possible the PGA tour gave up all control, but my guess is that they didnt and they just took what is effectively an enormous sponsorship and defused a threat. which was always the most probable outcome with the unlimited $ the ksa seemed willing to throw around in this.
whether it's amex or hyundai or bmw or schwab or whoever, any commercial organization is willing to trade access/influence for $. that's why nfl games can be flexed on thursdays and why there are patches on mlb uniforms. the question with this deal like any is figuring out how much either side gave up and my guess (which is just based on the leverage either side had) the pga probably got a good deal. without knowing anything beyond what's come out so far that could be a total misread.
This is probably what the deal is, LIV investing into the PGA basically and creating a bigger company with more money..
I don't know all the particulars, but why couldn't the PGA just exist on its own as it always has?
LIV wasn't kicking their ass in ratings right? Were more players making their way over there?
LIV was a total failure but there were a bunch of court cases still pending that could have damaged the PGA.
Like settlements of high profile lawsuits, some kind of settlement was always likely here. Saudi was clearly willing to keep burning millions of dollars to get involved one way or another and there was nothing the PGA Tour could to stop that. That is what was different relative to the PGA Tour existing how they always had.
I don't know all the particulars, but why couldn't the PGA just exist on its own as it always has?
LIV wasn't kicking their ass in ratings right? Were more players making their way over there?
No inside intel here, but with Koepka winning the PGA, and many LIV players doing really well in The Masters and the PGA, I would guess that the PGA may have felt added pressure to make a deal to restore a unified tour with the best players.
have to give back the $ the Saudis gave them....
truth be told,it will probably be cheap for the Saudi's in the long run.
Sports Franchises cost Billions of $s to buy,and my guess is this will be the closest they will ever get at sniffing a sports franchise here in the USA.
I don't know all the particulars, but why couldn't the PGA just exist on its own as it always has?
LIV wasn't kicking their ass in ratings right? Were more players making their way over there?
LIV was a total failure but there were a bunch of court cases still pending that could have damaged the PGA.
Like settlements of high profile lawsuits, some kind of settlement was always likely here. Saudi was clearly willing to keep burning millions of dollars to get involved one way or another and there was nothing the PGA Tour could to stop that. That is what was different relative to the PGA Tour existing how they always had.
Thx.
Wasn't the issue also that players from LIV were banned from non majors? If the case why couldn't the PGA let them play, as long as they qualified earlier in the week before the four rounds?
I always think of the PGA like a league, and you have to be part of the league to compete. If you go to another league (LIV) you're over there now..........
Legal eagles probably break that logic down lol
“Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
When an upstart league (AFL, ABA) with big pockets come along, a merger ultimately happens. Why? Because the upstart league starts to take marquee players from the established one.
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
When an upstart league (AFL, ABA) with big pockets come along, a merger ultimately happens. Why? Because the upstart league starts to take marquee players from the established one.
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
generally agree, and i think some are misreading the leverage. Liv's recruiting has steadily slowed down and Koepka has been publicly expressing regret about taking the money since february and his game turned around. when they signed him and bryson it was mostly because they were injured and not performing.
a month ago shipnuck and others well informed were speculating that if Liv lost any of their players who wanted to break back to the tour, koepka being the obvious one, then liv was basically done.
i think over the last 2 years the PGA learned they had nothing to fear with liv except the unknown of court cases. koepka winning pga events didnt do anything for liv or the liv events or liv players. mickleson didnt do anything. the pga tour ratings were fine. any illusions of a pga tour alternative were splat the only question was how much money they wanted to light on fire. or if instead of lighting that money on fire maybe offer it to the pga and take whatever they can get.
When an upstart league (AFL, ABA) with big pockets come along, a merger ultimately happens. Why? Because the upstart league starts to take marquee players from the established one.
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
generally agree, and i think some are misreading the leverage. Liv's recruiting has steadily slowed down and Koepka has been publicly expressing regret about taking the money since february and his game turned around. when they signed him and bryson it was mostly because they were injured and not performing.
a month ago shipnuck and others well informed were speculating that if Liv lost any of their players who wanted to break back to the tour, koepka being the obvious one, then liv was basically done.
i think over the last 2 years the PGA learned they had nothing to fear with liv except the unknown of court cases. koepka winning pga events didnt do anything for liv or the liv events or liv players. mickleson didnt do anything. the pga tour ratings were fine. any illusions of a pga tour alternative were splat the only question was how much money they wanted to light on fire. or if instead of lighting that money on fire maybe offer it to the pga and take whatever they can get.
Eric, I agree. The PGA could have waited this out and let LIV die on the vine, but when they were shown a suitcase of money, they said, "Hummm..."
RE: RE: RE: “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
When an upstart league (AFL, ABA) with big pockets come along, a merger ultimately happens. Why? Because the upstart league starts to take marquee players from the established one.
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
generally agree, and i think some are misreading the leverage. Liv's recruiting has steadily slowed down and Koepka has been publicly expressing regret about taking the money since february and his game turned around. when they signed him and bryson it was mostly because they were injured and not performing.
a month ago shipnuck and others well informed were speculating that if Liv lost any of their players who wanted to break back to the tour, koepka being the obvious one, then liv was basically done.
i think over the last 2 years the PGA learned they had nothing to fear with liv except the unknown of court cases. koepka winning pga events didnt do anything for liv or the liv events or liv players. mickleson didnt do anything. the pga tour ratings were fine. any illusions of a pga tour alternative were splat the only question was how much money they wanted to light on fire. or if instead of lighting that money on fire maybe offer it to the pga and take whatever they can get.
Eric, I agree. The PGA could have waited this out and let LIV die on the vine, but when they were shown a suitcase of money, they said, "Hummm..."
that's what i think. if they are getting a few billion i have no idea what they do with that money - other than distribute to the players on the tour who remained loyal.
i would think purely out of self interest the amount of money each of those guys is going to get out of this is enough that monahan will still have his job.
losers in this are the "loyal" PGA golfers who defended the PGA and use the same propaganda insults against LIV that the PGA was hurling all the while negotiating with LIV behind their backs.
the players who took the LIV money are the winners.
because that once in a lifetime offer, especially for the marginal golfers, is just that, once in a lifetime and the loyal PGA golfers got nothing as far as I know.
I think some of you misread the legal angle of this
not only was LIV dying in the ratings but the PGA Tour won in court. Once this ruling came down LIV golf was ending one way or another.
Quote:
A federal judge has ruled the head of Saudi Arabia’s sovereign wealth fund, the financial backer of LIV Golf, must sit for depositions and produce documents in LIV Golf’s antitrust lawsuit against the PGA Tour.
Lawyers for the Public Investment Fund and its governor, Yasir al-Rumayyan, had sought to quash subpoenas claiming sovereign immunity.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Susan van Keulen ruled late Thursday that PIF’s involvement falls under the commercial activity exception to the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act.
Her decision allows the PGA Tour to seek documents and any communication related to such matters as LIV Golf’s recruiting and negotiating with players, its business plans and its involvement in the new league.
If the ruling holds, it could pull back the curtain on the PIF’s business dealings.
NO CHANCE, none, that the Saudi's were going to sit in front of the PGA Tour lawyers in a US court case.
So instead they did what people with money who don't wanrt their secrets exposed do. They bought their way out of it.
losers in this are the "loyal" PGA golfers who defended the PGA and use the same propaganda insults against LIV that the PGA was hurling all the while negotiating with LIV behind their backs.
the players who took the LIV money are the winners.
because that once in a lifetime offer, especially for the marginal golfers, is just that, once in a lifetime and the loyal PGA golfers got nothing as far as I know.
i think the tour players are going to get paid out - and if so lower ranked guys will probably end up ahead of where they would have been. this whole thing was just a big negotiation and i think end of the day most will come away ahead but within that some more than others.
After all of these posts only one thing is certain
Monahan is the biggest piece of shit in all of this for using/apologizing to 9/11 families to speak out against LIV only to line his pockets with the same money.
losers in this are the "loyal" PGA golfers who defended the PGA and use the same propaganda insults against LIV that the PGA was hurling all the while negotiating with LIV behind their backs.
the players who took the LIV money are the winners.
because that once in a lifetime offer, especially for the marginal golfers, is just that, once in a lifetime and the loyal PGA golfers got nothing as far as I know.
i think the tour players are going to get paid out - and if so lower ranked guys will probably end up ahead of where they would have been. this whole thing was just a big negotiation and i think end of the day most will come away ahead but within that some more than others.
How will they get paid out? Bigger prize pools? Or do you think there is something else in the works to compensate the PGA "loyal" golfers? I hadn't read anything like that.
RE: After all of these posts only one thing is certain
Monahan is the biggest piece of shit in all of this for using/apologizing to 9/11 families to speak out against LIV only to line his pockets with the same money.
He definitely looks the worst of anyone, aside from the actual Saudi government. The players who stuck with the league just look like fools.
PGA had zero competition and while the LIV product wasn’t good, the fact that they forced some change is a good thing for the sport.
What I found interesting is how the top guys on the PGA were railing against the Liv tour, but that move of some to Liv forced the PGA’s hand to at least up the purses to be more inticing for the players to stay on the PGA.
This was how the World Golf events really came about. Top level players voicing concerns and huge money.
the way this went down is a bad look for the PGA Tour and their higher than thou attitude. Everyone with a brain knew money dictates things and the Saudis have it.
the other issue is despite the ratings, top tour players look at the extra time off, less wear and tear physically & mentally and still get huge money as a way to push the PGA Tour for some change
RE: “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
When an upstart league (AFL, ABA) with big pockets come along, a merger ultimately happens. Why? Because the upstart league starts to take marquee players from the established one.
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
Much different world, different business model. I can only assume the Saudis put a massive check in front of the PGA and they rant to the bank with it.
Unless current tour players get massive checks, I don't see how this merger works. What prevents the top ten players - the ones people genuinely like - now do the same thing as LIV. Except they have the moral high ground.
losers in this are the "loyal" PGA golfers who defended the PGA and use the same propaganda insults against LIV that the PGA was hurling all the while negotiating with LIV behind their backs.
the players who took the LIV money are the winners.
because that once in a lifetime offer, especially for the marginal golfers, is just that, once in a lifetime and the loyal PGA golfers got nothing as far as I know.
i think the tour players are going to get paid out - and if so lower ranked guys will probably end up ahead of where they would have been. this whole thing was just a big negotiation and i think end of the day most will come away ahead but within that some more than others.
How will they get paid out? Bigger prize pools? Or do you think there is something else in the works to compensate the PGA "loyal" golfers? I hadn't read anything like that.
what else is the PGA going to spend the billions of investment on? building golf courses? i think the only way monahan makes a deal like this that blindsides his membership (and kills his 3 year PR strategy) is if it's an endgame with a huge $ windfall to the rank and file to keep them behind him.
separately for anyone interested below is a link from monahan to the players explaining the deal, most of the notable excerpts are on this first page, specifically that it appears in addition to the money the PGA Tour is appointing the majority of the board and holding the majority voting interest. Liv's "significant financial investment" is towards minority equity ownership of the new combined for profit LLC.
PGA Tour remains in control as is as a 501c6 with the only change being that Yasir will join the board.
there's going to be a ton more details that come out but im pretty sure the pga tour players are about to get big checks, the PGA eliminated most of the drama, and in doing so gave PIF a seat at the table. how big that seat is will be the question.
for spelling this out for those of you who don't understand what this is about:
Quote:
Thomas Jefferson didn’t have the golf industry in mind when he wrote that money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations, but his observation that a man’s management of his purse speaks volumes about his character can easily be applied to the sport’s leaders. Tuesday’s announcement that the PGA Tour, DP World Tour and LIV will form a joint entity offered little actual detail on the future shape of golf, but leaves no ambiguity as to the moral weakness of those guiding it.
The statement announcing peace in our time was flush with the kind of boilerplate banalities that corporate ciphers usually hide behind. Yasir Al-Rumayyan, the governor of the Saudi Public Investment Fund and the bag man for MBS, declared himself “proud to partner with the PGA Tour.”
“A momentous day,” cheered Keith Pelley, whose European outfit could charitably be described as non-essential to the new alliance, but was brought along for appearances’ sake.
PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan forgot his prior reservations about the source of LIV’s financing and praised Al-Rumayyan’s “vision and collaborative and forward-thinking approach.” The deal is “transformational,” he announced, though a cynic might suggest that his new partner’s bonesaw has proven itself pretty transformational too.
Peace in our time. Eamon Lynch's pen cuts quite deeply also even if it will draw no blood from those Emperors, who will chuckle as they quaff rare single malts in the oak paneled board rooms.
RE: RE: “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
Unless current tour players get massive checks, I don't see how this merger works. What prevents the top ten players - the ones people genuinely like - now do the same thing as LIV. Except they have the moral high ground.
That's much easier said than done.
LIV "worked" because Norman had the time, drive, business skills and spigot of endless funds to get another option off the ground. It was a perfect storm opportunity...
he's a scumbag choker. He let himself be used as the Saudi face because no one else in golf would speak to him. Remember his lead analyst embarrassment on Fox a few years ago? He even choked at that.
There won't be another breakaway "golf league" until there's another endless supply of money to start one. The top players are chump change compared to the bottomless Saudi money well. So was the PGA Tour that's why this happened.
i think this bit particularly hits pretty close to reality.
Quote:
For Monahan and Pelley – and for players, agents and assorted hangers on – the problem has always been where the money was going, not where it was coming from. The Saudis were eager to dump billions of dollars into golf, and no matter what disputes arose between the establishment and the upstart, there was a desire to ensure the money be redirected rather than rejected. Morality, like the families of September 11 victims and Jamal Khashoggi, was merely a convenient posture to adopt until the time arrived when space was cleared at the trough.
The exposure faced by Al-Rumayyan and his investment fund in U.S. courts hastened the need for a face-saving settlement, so the time to burrow is at hand. Thus Saudi money stays in the game and both sides position it as an equitable resolution. If this were a genuine victory for LIV’s concept, the announcement would have featured Greg Norman, the league’s chief executive and propagandist. Instead, he was not mentioned. Still, not the first man disappeared after his utility for the Saudis concluded.
The coming months will see make-good maneuverings. A Crown Prince’s ransom must find its way to elite stars who chose not to bolt to LIV last year, while those who did must be recycled into the various tours. While this happens, the only attribute of value will be amnesia, a breezy willingness to forget accusations, insults and litigation. Sportswashing is now standard operating procedure, a shared article of faith for elite golf.
my counter-comment would be that we all live in the world we have not the one we want. in the world monahan had, KSA was willing to burn billions of dollars attempting to buy as much control as they could at the expense of the pga tour. he didnt ask for that and had no real recourse to protect beyond what they tried to do in courts and the like.
for fans of golf all we can do is hope that the deal monahan maneuvered gained enough protections to protect the pga tour. expecting jay monahan to vanquish completely one of the wealthiest nations in the world with their limitless resources set on a specific objective was not a reasonable expectation in the world we live in.
he's a scumbag choker. He let himself be used as the Saudi face because no one else in golf would speak to him. Remember his lead analyst embarrassment on Fox a few years ago? He even choked at that.
There won't be another breakaway "golf league" until there's another endless supply of money to start one. The top players are chump change compared to the bottomless Saudi money well. So was the PGA Tour that's why this happened.
FWIW, Norman wanted to do something like this back in the '90s. So, I don't think he was "used" here.
You can argue he's bitter about his relationship with the PGA guard, but I don't think he's been used at all. He was very eager to engage in this fight...
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
Per ESPN:
"PIF will be the exclusive investor in the new entity and will have the "exclusive right to further invest in the new enterprise, including a right of first refusal on any capital invested.""
PIF is the Saudi Arabian "Public Investment Fund." It does sound like they are the buyer in this transaction.
i dont have any more understanding of the details than what's been released publicly so far so it's possible the PGA tour gave up all control, but my guess is that they didnt and they just took what is effectively an enormous sponsorship and defused a threat. which was always the most probable outcome with the unlimited $ the ksa seemed willing to throw around in this.
whether it's amex or hyundai or bmw or schwab or whoever, any commercial organization is willing to trade access/influence for $. that's why nfl games can be flexed on thursdays and why there are patches on mlb uniforms. the question with this deal like any is figuring out how much either side gave up and my guess (which is just based on the leverage either side had) the pga probably got a good deal. without knowing anything beyond what's come out so far that could be a total misread.
It would be a pretty interesting sponsorship to include the Chairman seat.
PIF bought the PGA today.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Saudi Arabia buying the PGA Tour
It would be a pretty interesting sponsorship to include the Chairman seat.
PIF bought the PGA today.
its the chairman seat on a new commercial entity that didn't exist before, without majority voting rights over the pga tour which remains separate and as is.
the strength of the deal is how accurate that description of the deal ends up over time. they may have bought the pga tour today. or they may have spent a ton of money for a glorified sponsorship.
Monahan betrayed the PGA golfers, 911 families and human rights. Not to mention golf fans who support the tour.
Make no mistake that the Saudi’s funded terrorism around the world.
This was a business decision for sure
The PGA financial condition must be in a weak position based on the monopoly lawsuit legal fees that could drag on for years and funding designated events this year.
How about the Corporate Sponsors who stood behind the PGA these past couple of years financially.
Finally, talk about a monopoly!!! What about this new golf combination of the 3 big tours.
not to depress everyone but this is probably only the beginning
golf was an easy target because players as individuals were easy to buy, as are golf courses. organized team sports are more complicated but it does seem only a matter of time.
Quote:
“The U.S. sports market might not be ready yet for having a Saudi-owned franchise in the NFL, NBA, NHL, or MLB,” Dubinsky told Deadspin. “The MLS might be a different story as the New York City FC is [already] part of the City Football Group in which the Abu Dhabi United Group is the majority holder. So, it is not impossible to imagine that the door might be also open to the Saudis, if the offer will be attractive enough to secure the future of the league, grow the game, and can be marketed as a positive investment in a needy community.”
Quote:
Look no further than the money the PIF is throwing at European soccer stars. This summer, Messi is deliberating between finishing his career in the Saudi Pro League on a $400 million contract or with Inter Miami, which is owned by billionaire Jose Mas. However, with a relatively measly net worth of $1.2 billion, it’s safe to say Inter Miami would not be able to match Saudi dollars. French striker Karim Benzema is leaving Real Madrid for a three-year, $643 million deal to play with Al-Ittihad in the Saudi Pro League.
Quote:
While the NBA’s business with China has been unfairly targeted, it’s also made The Association more amenable to oil-rich companies. In a move that went under the radar in November, the NBA’s Board of Governors recently approved a rule change that allows sovereign wealth to buy up to 20 percent stakes in teams, as well as invest in endowments and penchant [sic] funds. For now, they cannot become majority owners, but the slippery slope is being tread on. Team sales advisers told ESPn that as team values have skyrocketed, the pool of individual buyers for franchises has dramatically thinned. Ultimately, the Saudi enterprise has an endless stream of oil money to throw at these projects, and unless something dramatically changes, it’s only a matter of time and money.
with the players who took the PIF $ to join LIV. But the LIV product, IMV, was horrible. I felt like I was watching Caddy Shack 2.
I love golf and was hoping this exact outcome could be achieved where both bodies combined.
But the PGA - the organization and certain players - looks very bad here after all of public barking. They folded big time.
Money is a very powerful drug.
You don’t have a problem with golfers or anyone for that matter taking $$$ from the country who had their hands all over 911?
I certainly do and lost all respect for those guys taking the money, and now the PGA too.
Ideally, sure. I wish LIV had a more wholesome financial backer.
But I suggest you look into the relationship our government has had with Saudi Arabia for close to a century. And still does.
Dirty money is everywhere. Check your 401(k) or pension. I guarantee your money is with companies who have business ties to China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.
The PGA, in fact, has had business relationships with China and Saudi Arabia.
I try to live my life with as few personal hypocritical thoughts as possible. I want to be “real” and I want to be “right” whatever that is.
Saudi oil money is messed up to say the least. But where’s the line? Rich old ass PGA American money built off plenty of BS is ok, but the Saudis are awful?
I get there’s levels to this. But where the line belongs is up to you personally. It’s just a very hard thing to figure out. I don’t like this in practice. But in theory, it’s hard for me to call it out when we’re mostly in America and “big bank take little bank” is king and fuck the little guy.
I’m very interested to see how “the line” moves these next 10-20 years. Hopefully it moves in the correct direction.
Monahan is the biggest piece of shit in all of this for using/apologizing to 9/11 families to speak out against LIV only to line his pockets with the same money.
He definitely looks the worst of anyone, aside from the actual Saudi government. The players who stuck with the league just look like fools.
They are fools for refusing to align themselves with murderers? How about those that signed on with LIV will forever be seen as shitbirds of greed with blood on their heads, at least by some.
In comment 16129055 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
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In comment 16129044 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 16128962 Mark C said:
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And if my following the PGA tour in any way supports the bloodstained Saudi Arabian dictatorship, I will never watch again.
Make sure you log off twitter and dont use ticketmaster at all as well just to name a couple of companies who have saudi investors
I am never on twitter and don't use ticketmaster. And I will not watch PGA golf on TV as long as the Saudis are in charge of it.
Make sure you dont order off of Amazon, no more google, hope you dont habe a visa, dont watch espn as they invested in disney, no nintendo, paypal, uber or zoom jist to name a few more..
Saudis have their money in everything
I don't understand the Saudis have money in everything take
No shit. But as usual in life, there is nuance to everything.
There is a big difference between the Saudis investing in public US companies and how it went down with PGA. PGA goes from a 'non-profit' entity, slamming the Saudis to for profit with Saudis the major investor?
The issue, IMO, is more of PGA made a willing choice to make a deal with the PIF where public companies don't necessarily have the same leisure.
At the end of the day, Saudi money is Saudi money, but the way it went down is probably what bothers people most. Especially after the posturing by the PGA.
I frankly don't give a shit one way or the other, but this is different than them investing in Google, IMO.
I think competition is a good thing, but now there is no more competition so it will be business as it historically was for golf which is unfortunate.
No shit. But as usual in life, there is nuance to everything.
There is a big difference between the Saudis investing in public US companies and how it went down with PGA. PGA goes from a 'non-profit' entity, slamming the Saudis to for profit with Saudis the major investor?
The issue, IMO, is more of PGA made a willing choice to make a deal with the PIF where public companies don't necessarily have the same leisure.
At the end of the day, Saudi money is Saudi money, but the way it went down is probably what bothers people most. Especially after the posturing by the PGA.
I frankly don't give a shit one way or the other, but this is different than them investing in Google, IMO.
I think competition is a good thing, but now there is no more competition so it will be business as it historically was for golf which is unfortunate.
When people say they wont watch anything backed by the saudis, that is what i am responding to..
You want to talk about being pissed at the PGA for selling out, fine, but dont say its because of saudi money..
RE: RE: I don't understand the Saudis have money in everything take
No shit. But as usual in life, there is nuance to everything.
There is a big difference between the Saudis investing in public US companies and how it went down with PGA. PGA goes from a 'non-profit' entity, slamming the Saudis to for profit with Saudis the major investor?
The issue, IMO, is more of PGA made a willing choice to make a deal with the PIF where public companies don't necessarily have the same leisure.
At the end of the day, Saudi money is Saudi money, but the way it went down is probably what bothers people most. Especially after the posturing by the PGA.
I frankly don't give a shit one way or the other, but this is different than them investing in Google, IMO.
I think competition is a good thing, but now there is no more competition so it will be business as it historically was for golf which is unfortunate.
When people say they wont watch anything backed by the saudis, that is what i am responding to..
You want to talk about being pissed at the PGA for selling out, fine, but dont say its because of saudi money..
Maybe for some people it is or that they are the majority investor. I don't know. I do think there is a difference for some people between the PIF being a major investor in something vs a very small percentage or tangentially involved. That line is probably different for everyone depending on their tolerance level.
bh28 the devil is going to be in the details as usual - the pga tour
is supposedly remaining a 501c6 entity separate from the new for profit entity. how strong that firewall is protecting the pga tour itself from changing as a result of this is the entire deal and time will judge that more than anything else. monahan may have sold the tour or he may have just closed the biggest minority investment in american pro sports. nobody knows that answer yet.
He was hating not being on your and now he’s back with $125 million in the bank.
Have to imagine the PGA does some sort of payout to Rory and Scheffler, right?
Idk that Brooks is that happy. He wanted to play fewer events this sounds like there will be more events that before which includes team events. The whole reason he jumped other than the money is that he couldn't recover from his injuries because of the schedule.
RE: RE: RE: I don't understand the Saudis have money in everything take
No shit. But as usual in life, there is nuance to everything.
There is a big difference between the Saudis investing in public US companies and how it went down with PGA. PGA goes from a 'non-profit' entity, slamming the Saudis to for profit with Saudis the major investor?
The issue, IMO, is more of PGA made a willing choice to make a deal with the PIF where public companies don't necessarily have the same leisure.
At the end of the day, Saudi money is Saudi money, but the way it went down is probably what bothers people most. Especially after the posturing by the PGA.
I frankly don't give a shit one way or the other, but this is different than them investing in Google, IMO.
I think competition is a good thing, but now there is no more competition so it will be business as it historically was for golf which is unfortunate.
When people say they wont watch anything backed by the saudis, that is what i am responding to..
You want to talk about being pissed at the PGA for selling out, fine, but dont say its because of saudi money..
Maybe for some people it is or that they are the majority investor. I don't know. I do think there is a difference for some people between the PIF being a major investor in something vs a very small percentage or tangentially involved. That line is probably different for everyone depending on their tolerance level.
Good thing BlackRock and Vanguard (who own basically everything between them) have no ties to Saudi money.
Basically declared it a sad day for golf and tried to thread the needle - like some on this thread - why LIV was worse than the US government and US companies for going into business with the Saudis.
anytime I read something that includes but what about...it's a pretty big clue where they get most of their information from and gives me some insight into who I'm speaking with.
I think this is bad of golf. I think it's bad for sports in general and bad for anyone who is a fan of sports.
I've always been on the players side of every labor stoppage in the 4 major US sports but right now I'm glad they all have some sort of salary cap to prevent at least for now, the Saudi's from doing what they've done to European soccer. I'm hoping it won't happen in my lifetime.
I feel lucky being born when I was. Golf has many socioeconomic problems, don't get me started on the people who run the Masters but I love golf, playing it and watching it. I'm grateful I got to see Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods and all their peers play their entire careers before yesterday. I think nothing will ever be the same in golf. It feels to me that spirit of the sport died yesterday.
Lots of people think scumbag Phil Mickelson "won" something yesterday and that Rory McIlroy "lost". I don't agree. Rory can still buy a small country if he wants to and he'll win millions and millions more in his career and he'll be on the right side of history. He's become one of my favorite people in sports.
What happens when the Saudi's who now own all of golf except The Open Championship, the US Open, the PGA Championship and The Masters decide to operate their own tournaments somewhere outside the US or UK and make those tournaments mandatory to remain members of the SAPGA that runs every other big money golf tournament in the world?
What happens if SAPGA decides to play at Doral the same weekend as the US Open and offer a purse of 20 million to the winner?
If you don't think those a real possibilities you haven't been paying attention to how much the people who run SA hate our culture. Some of us will never forget.
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9/11 Families United is shocked and deeply offended by the newly announced merger between the PGA Tour and the LIV Golf league that is bankrolled by billions of sportswashing money from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Saudi operatives played a role in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and now it is bankrolling all of professional golf.
“PGA Commissioner Jay Monahan co-opted the 9/11 community last year in the PGA’s unequivocal agreement that the Saudi LIV project was nothing more than sportswashing of Saudi Arabia’s reputation. But now the PGA and Monahan appear to have become just more paid Saudi shills, taking billions of dollars to cleanse the Saudi reputation so that Americans and the world will forget how the Kingdom spent their billions of dollars before 9/11 to fund terrorism, spread their vitriolic hatred of Americans, and finance al Qaeda and the murder of our loved ones.
Make no mistake – we will never forget,” said 9/11 Families United Chair Terry Strada, whose husband Tom died in the World Trade Center’s North Tower. “Mr. Monahan talked last summer about knowing people who lost loved ones on 9/11, then wondered aloud on national television whether LIV Golfers ever had to apologize for being a member of the PGA Tour.
They do now – as does he. PGA Tour leaders should be ashamed of their hypocrisy and greed. Our entire 9/11 community has been betrayed by Commissioner Monahan and the PGA as it appears their concern for our loved ones was merely window-dressing in their quest for money – it was never to honor the great game of golf.”
pga tour golf is great
liv's golf was a terrible product and potentially destructive to the pga tour
that's the primary conflict that mattered. this deal is a potential resolution, and how well the pga tour did to retain control is imo the only question that matters.
how much $ everyone involved makes and the ownership structure is whatever it's going to be within the law/bylaws. we aren't getting paid either way. we dont get to choose who spends what on what.
arnie sometimes the choice is the best of bad options
I think this is bad of golf. I think it's bad for sports in general and bad for anyone who is a fan of sports.
the owners of every sports league have willingly done things bad for their games in the name of $. in this case the pga tour didn't ask for an attempted hostile takeover, so there were only bad options. the best of the bad options is if they did enough to leverage themselves enough power to protect the sport.
If Jay Monahan was really smart he could have prevented this. But the way it turned out he's probably going to make way, way more money than he would have if he had locked up all the best players when they told him to. We'll probably never know what kind of deal and what kind of parachute he cut for himself.
But if he thinks his run with PIF is going to be any different than Greg Norman's he's probably wrong. I think when all the details are worked out the minute they don't need him he's gone and it won't be a lot of minutes before they don't need him.
Monahan gave an interview earlier on the Golf Channel...uh, perhaps keep him off the airwaves. He came across as awful. He was stammering when asked about using 9/11 as a moral stance against LIV.
Monahan gave an interview earlier on the Golf Channel...uh, perhaps keep him off the airwaves. He came across as awful. He was stammering when asked about using 9/11 as a moral stance against LIV.
He's in a horrible position. I believe he was 100% sincere when he stood by the 9-11 families.
But at the end of the day, the PGA is a business. And I think there were legitimate concerns that his business was likely going to lose more talent to LIV; and more LIV golfers would continue to play in and win majors. Further, there was a real chance if the litigation continued between the PGA and LIV, some unflattering things would be revealed about the PGA in court and their war chest would take a hit.
Riding the horse called Morality only gets you so far in business. Eventually, it's really all about the PnL. And there is no line on an income statement that accounts of morality.
My guess is he received an offer he couldn't refuse and that it was better to take the criticism now versus down the line when the PGA could be in a more difficult position.
id missed these when the news broke but rory i think has a good take
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory says he got a text on Monday night from Jimmy Dunne who then called him on Tuesday morning to walk him through the news. Wow.
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory: "When I try to remove myself from the situation and I look at the bigger picture, I think ultimately this is going to be good for the game of professional golf. It unifies it and secures its future."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory: "All the headlines were PGA Tour merges LIV ... LIV has got nothing to do with this."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d Rory: "Technically anyone involved with LIV now would now answer to Jay. Weather you like it or not, the PIF were going to keep spending in golf. At least now you can control how the money is spent."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Do you still have confidence in Jay Monahan as commissioner of the PGA Tour?
Rory [deeeeeep breath]: "I do ..."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory: "It's hard for me not to sit up here and feel somewhat like a sacrificial lamb."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory: "I still hate LIV. I hate them. I hope it goes away and expect that it does." Correcting everyone who conflates LIV and the PIF.
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory is better at explaining Jay Monahan's deal than Jay Monahan is.
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d Rory on Saudi money: "I've come to terms with it. I've resigned myself to ... this is what's going to happen. It's very hard to keep up with people who have more money than anyone else."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory on the players trying to hold on to their cards upset about the news: "It's hard for me to relate to those guys because I've never been in that position. I try to empathize."
Bonus comment from tiger, which was from a press conference last year (i think it was around 1 of the majors) - as the most newsworthy person in golf his comments sure look a lot more prescient than anything monahan said over the last 3 years.
Whether it was just part of his PR strategy or just pure hypocrisy, Monahan looks stupid because he has said a lot of enormously hypocritical things and did wrongfully use the 9/11 families. full stop. whether or not that public sentiment helped him keep golfers from bolting to liv over the last 3 years and helped create leverage to get the deal he got, i dont know, but i do think there's probably a way that could have been achieved with less hypocrisy. once PIF decided to light as much money on fire as they did, and engage in the courts like they did, some kind of settlement was the only path.
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Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
23h
Tiger didn't talk a ton about all of this last year, but here's one thing he said about the future of LIV and the PGA Tour.
Knew it was going to lose the lawsuit. If they lost the lawsuit, they would have lost their tax haven structured as a 501(c)(6) Nonprofit.
The tax implications alone would have bankrupt the PGA Tour. It would no longer exist. The whole thing would be LIV Golf.
The Saudi's were eager to settle as well since part of the lawsuit would have forced MBS to avail himself to a Deposition.
It was always going to happen. Jay Monahan had to have known this, which makes the language he used the whole time a joke.
I have a friend that plays on the LIV Tour. The PGA Tour funded a group of leftist (ANTIFA) professional protestors to go out to the LIV event in Portland to "protest" on "behalf of" 9/11 families. It was a total joke. They were literally paid actors "protesting" for money. The PGA Tour is using the imagery and pain of 9/11 as a bargaining chip in what amounts to a business dispute with a competitor.
To equate a 29 year old professional golfer cashing in on a $25 million payday to play golf with a different tour to a geopolitical religious extremist terrorist jihad is painfully stupid.
It's golf. Get over it. If everyone really wants to complain about something legitimate, maybe write your Congressman about what the U.S. Government continues to do Billion Dollar arms deals and Billion Dollar oil purchases with the Saudi's.
Not sure how the political affiliation of professional protesters
is relevant other than wanting to spout off a bit of your own political beliefs. It sure doesn't sound like their protest had anything to do with their politics if they were just paid actors playing a paid gig.
Basically declared it a sad day for golf and tried to thread the needle - like some on this thread - why LIV was worse than the US government and US companies for going into business with the Saudis.
.
I was actually being sarcastic, should have added that part.
and their endless stream of $ advancing their interests against foreign powers spending actual endless streams of $ advancing unpopular interests abroad.
You have a friend that plays on the LIV Tour? That's pretty cool. I'll bet he's a patriot like you.
Your friend told you The PGA Tour funded a group of leftist (ANTIFA) professional protestors to go out to the LIV event in Portland to "protest" on "behalf of" 9/11 families?
So you're saying this guy who spoke in Portland is an actor and his father wasn't killed by the 9/11 terrorists?
“Saudi Arabia is trying to sports-wash their reputation,” Sean Passananti, whose father died in the attacks, said in a press conference at the protest at Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club outside Portland, Oregon. “Instead of admitting their support and funding of al Qaeda, they are trying through the honorable game of golf to buy legitimacy.”
and this guy is an actor?
Brett Eagleson, whose father died on 9/11, said at Thursday’s news conference he plans to be at Bedminster next month to protest.
“One important message to these LIV golfers and the Kingdom is that we’re not going anywhere. Every tournament you’re going to have to deal with us in bigger numbers, more stories, from the families,” Eagleson said. “We’re going to be in your face for every tournament that is on US soil.”
and this guy is an actor who was in NJ?
“It’s simple,” said Tim Frolich, who was in the South Tower on 9/11. “The Saudis did it. They plotted it, they funded it, and now they are trying to distract every one of those things with a golf tournament 50 miles away from ground zero. It’s deplorable.”
That's pretty low of the PGA Tour. I'm surprised it hasn't gotten more coverage. How did your friend find out? Did Greg Norman tell him?
It looks like they paid the same actors to protest in NJ a month later too.
They hired this woman too?
“How much money does it take to turn your back on your country, on the American people?” said Juliette Scauso, who was 4 years old when her father, a firefighter Dennis Scauso, perished in the attacks.
Another paid actor?
"The utter, disgusting stench of that blood money is sure to follow you all the rest of your days," said Jay Winnick, whose brother firefighter Glenn Winuk, a longtime member of the Jericho Volunteer Fire Department rushed to the burning towers on Sept. 11, 2001, to tend to victims of the terrorist attack.
Winuk, 40, was working at his Manhattan law office the morning of the attacks, but he grabbed a medical bag and raced to pitch in with the rescue effort. He died when the skyscrapers collapsed; when his body was found in the rubble, months later, he was wearing surgical gloves and a stethoscope.
“LIV Golf?” he said. “For me and so many more of us, it’s more like death golf.”
Yet another actor?
Only these people know what it's like," said Richard Tipaldi, who lost his son Frank on 9/11. "It's 21 years already, and it's like yesterday."
I would think that Newsmax or OAN would have outed these people for the phonies and liars they are. Apparently those channels are not doing their jobs well.
will be interesting to see the details of everything, the term "merger" seems very kind. I would imagine the pga retains control but took a very big check and in return is putting a few tournaments in KSA. and greg norman is screaming into a pillow in his palace in riyadh right now that he got fucked again.
good news for everyone that just wanted to see the best players play golf.
Have to imagine the PGA does some sort of payout to Rory and Scheffler, right?
Have to imagine the PGA does some sort of payout to Rory and Scheffler, right?
just a guess but i would think settlement $ here gets some kind of distribution to players on tour who chose to stay and will probably be divided on some kind of formula based on rankings.
for some it wasn't all about the money - like the players who turned down money because they cared about competitive golf. for the majority of fans that was the biggest problem with the liv threat. it was shitty purposeless golf which is why it folded almost instantaneously despite infinite resources.
There may be no money changing hands, like the wwe sale it was a stock sale..
My guess PGA didnt take much if any money at all in the deal from LIV
PGA is still in control, this isnt the Saudi's buying the PGA
????????
By the way i wasn't anti LIV persay...but the PGA and everyone having a moral high ground was virtue signaling at its best. It was about MONEY.
This feels like when dunder mifflin bought out the michael scott paper company.
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of that Saudi blood money
There may be no money changing hands, like the wwe sale it was a stock sale..
My guess PGA didnt take much if any money at all in the deal from LIV
Yeah sure. The PIF said its investing billions into the new company, and I'm sure will be the biggest shareholder.
Who has the money, has the control.
This X 1000. Will be entertaining to see all the hypocrites coming out in droves. A couple of them already on this thread.
the pga's reason for existing is professional competitive golf in a system that they've built over 100 years.
anyone that threatens that system for them is an enemy whether it's a group of nuns or somali pirates. same is true for anyone who is a fan of the pga tour.
https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1666101484121890819?s=46&t=x6YQLu0xv-nV5NdWjqEK7Q - ( New Window )
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
the pga's reason for existing is professional competitive golf in a system that they've built over 100 years.
anyone that threatens that system for them is an enemy whether it's a group of nuns or somali pirates. same is true for anyone who is a fan of the pga tour.
100%. Shades of the American League-National League schism of 130 years ago.
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is a great day for golf is a very odd take to me.
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
Per ESPN:
"PIF will be the exclusive investor in the new entity and will have the "exclusive right to further invest in the new enterprise, including a right of first refusal on any capital invested.""
PIF is the Saudi Arabian "Public Investment Fund." It does sound like they are the buyer in this transaction.
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Shocking that it really is and has always been about money - regardless of where it comes from. Hypocrites all of them.
for some it wasn't all about the money - like the players who turned down money because they cared about competitive golf. for the majority of fans that was the biggest problem with the liv threat. it was shitty purposeless golf which is why it folded almost instantaneously despite infinite resources.
This is a merger and the head of the SAPIF is going to be chairman of the Board. The PGA lawyers must really not have liked what they were seeing in the antitrust suit.
I love golf and was hoping this exact outcome could be achieved where both bodies combined.
But the PGA - the organization and certain players - looks very bad here after all of public barking. They folded big time.
Money is a very powerful drug.
Look at all the land out west for Alfafa they own. And how much of Manhattan they own if you could ever untangle it all.
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how much saudi money is flowing through the United states, they have money in everything
Look at all the land out west for Alfafa they own. And how much of Manhattan they own if you could ever untangle it all.
Yup anything they can invest in and make money they do it...They actually bought WWE , than sold it back, Vince made a Billion on the deal...
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In comment 16128495 DCOrange said:
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Shocking that it really is and has always been about money - regardless of where it comes from. Hypocrites all of them.
for some it wasn't all about the money - like the players who turned down money because they cared about competitive golf. for the majority of fans that was the biggest problem with the liv threat. it was shitty purposeless golf which is why it folded almost instantaneously despite infinite resources.
They "folded"? "Competitive golf"? Laughable. The PGA was threatening the players with being banned.
This is a merger and the head of the SAPIF is going to be chairman of the Board. The PGA lawyers must really not have liked what they were seeing in the antitrust suit.
in your infinite non-laughable wisdom what do you think the pga tour was threatening the players with being banned from, that as it turns out, many chose over money?
I don't know all the particulars, but why couldn't the PGA just exist on its own as it always has?
LIV wasn't kicking their ass in ratings right? Were more players making their way over there?
Most of Rahm's comments about LIV were positive and Rory went mum on LIV recently. I think they might have known and the rest of the PGA Tour top players didn't
I mean Tiger turned down a billion dollars...
Does anyone know how those contracts are paid out?
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In comment 16128551 arniefez said:
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is a great day for golf is a very odd take to me.
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
Per ESPN:
"PIF will be the exclusive investor in the new entity and will have the "exclusive right to further invest in the new enterprise, including a right of first refusal on any capital invested.""
PIF is the Saudi Arabian "Public Investment Fund." It does sound like they are the buyer in this transaction.
i dont have any more understanding of the details than what's been released publicly so far so it's possible the PGA tour gave up all control, but my guess is that they didnt and they just took what is effectively an enormous sponsorship and defused a threat. which was always the most probable outcome with the unlimited $ the ksa seemed willing to throw around in this.
whether it's amex or hyundai or bmw or schwab or whoever, any commercial organization is willing to trade access/influence for $. that's why nfl games can be flexed on thursdays and why there are patches on mlb uniforms. the question with this deal like any is figuring out how much either side gave up and my guess (which is just based on the leverage either side had) the pga probably got a good deal. without knowing anything beyond what's come out so far that could be a total misread.
I mean Tiger turned down a billion dollars...
Does anyone know how those contracts are paid out?
Up front, they got paid on signing..
and tiger was offer 750, he has mentioned if it was a billion it may have been worth it..
Most of Rahm's comments about LIV were positive and Rory went mum on LIV recently. I think they might have known and the rest of the PGA Tour top players didn't
Rory probably knew the deal was coming, i think thats part kf why he skipped the ezclusive event a couple of weeks ago and took the fine..
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In comment 16128558 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16128551 arniefez said:
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is a great day for golf is a very odd take to me.
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
Per ESPN:
"PIF will be the exclusive investor in the new entity and will have the "exclusive right to further invest in the new enterprise, including a right of first refusal on any capital invested.""
PIF is the Saudi Arabian "Public Investment Fund." It does sound like they are the buyer in this transaction.
i dont have any more understanding of the details than what's been released publicly so far so it's possible the PGA tour gave up all control, but my guess is that they didnt and they just took what is effectively an enormous sponsorship and defused a threat. which was always the most probable outcome with the unlimited $ the ksa seemed willing to throw around in this.
whether it's amex or hyundai or bmw or schwab or whoever, any commercial organization is willing to trade access/influence for $. that's why nfl games can be flexed on thursdays and why there are patches on mlb uniforms. the question with this deal like any is figuring out how much either side gave up and my guess (which is just based on the leverage either side had) the pga probably got a good deal. without knowing anything beyond what's come out so far that could be a total misread.
This is probably what the deal is, LIV investing into the PGA basically and creating a bigger company with more money..
I don't know all the particulars, but why couldn't the PGA just exist on its own as it always has?
LIV wasn't kicking their ass in ratings right? Were more players making their way over there?
LIV was a total failure but there were a bunch of court cases still pending that could have damaged the PGA.
Like settlements of high profile lawsuits, some kind of settlement was always likely here. Saudi was clearly willing to keep burning millions of dollars to get involved one way or another and there was nothing the PGA Tour could to stop that. That is what was different relative to the PGA Tour existing how they always had.
I don't know all the particulars, but why couldn't the PGA just exist on its own as it always has?
LIV wasn't kicking their ass in ratings right? Were more players making their way over there?
No inside intel here, but with Koepka winning the PGA, and many LIV players doing really well in The Masters and the PGA, I would guess that the PGA may have felt added pressure to make a deal to restore a unified tour with the best players.
truth be told,it will probably be cheap for the Saudi's in the long run.
Sports Franchises cost Billions of $s to buy,and my guess is this will be the closest they will ever get at sniffing a sports franchise here in the USA.
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..and bullshit walks.
I don't know all the particulars, but why couldn't the PGA just exist on its own as it always has?
LIV wasn't kicking their ass in ratings right? Were more players making their way over there?
LIV was a total failure but there were a bunch of court cases still pending that could have damaged the PGA.
Like settlements of high profile lawsuits, some kind of settlement was always likely here. Saudi was clearly willing to keep burning millions of dollars to get involved one way or another and there was nothing the PGA Tour could to stop that. That is what was different relative to the PGA Tour existing how they always had.
Thx.
Wasn't the issue also that players from LIV were banned from non majors? If the case why couldn't the PGA let them play, as long as they qualified earlier in the week before the four rounds?
I always think of the PGA like a league, and you have to be part of the league to compete. If you go to another league (LIV) you're over there now..........
Legal eagles probably break that logic down lol
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
generally agree, and i think some are misreading the leverage. Liv's recruiting has steadily slowed down and Koepka has been publicly expressing regret about taking the money since february and his game turned around. when they signed him and bryson it was mostly because they were injured and not performing.
a month ago shipnuck and others well informed were speculating that if Liv lost any of their players who wanted to break back to the tour, koepka being the obvious one, then liv was basically done.
i think over the last 2 years the PGA learned they had nothing to fear with liv except the unknown of court cases. koepka winning pga events didnt do anything for liv or the liv events or liv players. mickleson didnt do anything. the pga tour ratings were fine. any illusions of a pga tour alternative were splat the only question was how much money they wanted to light on fire. or if instead of lighting that money on fire maybe offer it to the pga and take whatever they can get.
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When an upstart league (AFL, ABA) with big pockets come along, a merger ultimately happens. Why? Because the upstart league starts to take marquee players from the established one.
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
generally agree, and i think some are misreading the leverage. Liv's recruiting has steadily slowed down and Koepka has been publicly expressing regret about taking the money since february and his game turned around. when they signed him and bryson it was mostly because they were injured and not performing.
a month ago shipnuck and others well informed were speculating that if Liv lost any of their players who wanted to break back to the tour, koepka being the obvious one, then liv was basically done.
i think over the last 2 years the PGA learned they had nothing to fear with liv except the unknown of court cases. koepka winning pga events didnt do anything for liv or the liv events or liv players. mickleson didnt do anything. the pga tour ratings were fine. any illusions of a pga tour alternative were splat the only question was how much money they wanted to light on fire. or if instead of lighting that money on fire maybe offer it to the pga and take whatever they can get.
Eric, I agree. The PGA could have waited this out and let LIV die on the vine, but when they were shown a suitcase of money, they said, "Hummm..."
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In comment 16128637 Sky King said:
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When an upstart league (AFL, ABA) with big pockets come along, a merger ultimately happens. Why? Because the upstart league starts to take marquee players from the established one.
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
generally agree, and i think some are misreading the leverage. Liv's recruiting has steadily slowed down and Koepka has been publicly expressing regret about taking the money since february and his game turned around. when they signed him and bryson it was mostly because they were injured and not performing.
a month ago shipnuck and others well informed were speculating that if Liv lost any of their players who wanted to break back to the tour, koepka being the obvious one, then liv was basically done.
i think over the last 2 years the PGA learned they had nothing to fear with liv except the unknown of court cases. koepka winning pga events didnt do anything for liv or the liv events or liv players. mickleson didnt do anything. the pga tour ratings were fine. any illusions of a pga tour alternative were splat the only question was how much money they wanted to light on fire. or if instead of lighting that money on fire maybe offer it to the pga and take whatever they can get.
Eric, I agree. The PGA could have waited this out and let LIV die on the vine, but when they were shown a suitcase of money, they said, "Hummm..."
that's what i think. if they are getting a few billion i have no idea what they do with that money - other than distribute to the players on the tour who remained loyal.
i would think purely out of self interest the amount of money each of those guys is going to get out of this is enough that monahan will still have his job.
the players who took the LIV money are the winners.
because that once in a lifetime offer, especially for the marginal golfers, is just that, once in a lifetime and the loyal PGA golfers got nothing as far as I know.
Lawyers for the Public Investment Fund and its governor, Yasir al-Rumayyan, had sought to quash subpoenas claiming sovereign immunity.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Susan van Keulen ruled late Thursday that PIF’s involvement falls under the commercial activity exception to the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act.
Her decision allows the PGA Tour to seek documents and any communication related to such matters as LIV Golf’s recruiting and negotiating with players, its business plans and its involvement in the new league.
If the ruling holds, it could pull back the curtain on the PIF’s business dealings.
NO CHANCE, none, that the Saudi's were going to sit in front of the PGA Tour lawyers in a US court case.
So instead they did what people with money who don't wanrt their secrets exposed do. They bought their way out of it.
Judge rules PGA Tour can depose Saudi backers of LIV Golf - ( New Window )
the players who took the LIV money are the winners.
because that once in a lifetime offer, especially for the marginal golfers, is just that, once in a lifetime and the loyal PGA golfers got nothing as far as I know.
i think the tour players are going to get paid out - and if so lower ranked guys will probably end up ahead of where they would have been. this whole thing was just a big negotiation and i think end of the day most will come away ahead but within that some more than others.
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losers in this are the "loyal" PGA golfers who defended the PGA and use the same propaganda insults against LIV that the PGA was hurling all the while negotiating with LIV behind their backs.
the players who took the LIV money are the winners.
because that once in a lifetime offer, especially for the marginal golfers, is just that, once in a lifetime and the loyal PGA golfers got nothing as far as I know.
i think the tour players are going to get paid out - and if so lower ranked guys will probably end up ahead of where they would have been. this whole thing was just a big negotiation and i think end of the day most will come away ahead but within that some more than others.
How will they get paid out? Bigger prize pools? Or do you think there is something else in the works to compensate the PGA "loyal" golfers? I hadn't read anything like that.
He definitely looks the worst of anyone, aside from the actual Saudi government. The players who stuck with the league just look like fools.
What I found interesting is how the top guys on the PGA were railing against the Liv tour, but that move of some to Liv forced the PGA’s hand to at least up the purses to be more inticing for the players to stay on the PGA.
Ha excellent
Heisenberg nails it with a single picture!!!! One of the best posts ever on BBI. Great stuff.
This was how the World Golf events really came about. Top level players voicing concerns and huge money.
the way this went down is a bad look for the PGA Tour and their higher than thou attitude. Everyone with a brain knew money dictates things and the Saudis have it.
the other issue is despite the ratings, top tour players look at the extra time off, less wear and tear physically & mentally and still get huge money as a way to push the PGA Tour for some change
This merger was inevitable, but I am surprised it happened this soon.
Much different world, different business model. I can only assume the Saudis put a massive check in front of the PGA and they rant to the bank with it.
Unless current tour players get massive checks, I don't see how this merger works. What prevents the top ten players - the ones people genuinely like - now do the same thing as LIV. Except they have the moral high ground.
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In comment 16128660 pjcas18 said:
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losers in this are the "loyal" PGA golfers who defended the PGA and use the same propaganda insults against LIV that the PGA was hurling all the while negotiating with LIV behind their backs.
the players who took the LIV money are the winners.
because that once in a lifetime offer, especially for the marginal golfers, is just that, once in a lifetime and the loyal PGA golfers got nothing as far as I know.
i think the tour players are going to get paid out - and if so lower ranked guys will probably end up ahead of where they would have been. this whole thing was just a big negotiation and i think end of the day most will come away ahead but within that some more than others.
How will they get paid out? Bigger prize pools? Or do you think there is something else in the works to compensate the PGA "loyal" golfers? I hadn't read anything like that.
what else is the PGA going to spend the billions of investment on? building golf courses? i think the only way monahan makes a deal like this that blindsides his membership (and kills his 3 year PR strategy) is if it's an endgame with a huge $ windfall to the rank and file to keep them behind him.
separately for anyone interested below is a link from monahan to the players explaining the deal, most of the notable excerpts are on this first page, specifically that it appears in addition to the money the PGA Tour is appointing the majority of the board and holding the majority voting interest. Liv's "significant financial investment" is towards minority equity ownership of the new combined for profit LLC.
PGA Tour remains in control as is as a 501c6 with the only change being that Yasir will join the board.
there's going to be a ton more details that come out but im pretty sure the pga tour players are about to get big checks, the PGA eliminated most of the drama, and in doing so gave PIF a seat at the table. how big that seat is will be the question.
The letter sent to players just now from Jay. - ( New Window )
The statement announcing peace in our time was flush with the kind of boilerplate banalities that corporate ciphers usually hide behind. Yasir Al-Rumayyan, the governor of the Saudi Public Investment Fund and the bag man for MBS, declared himself “proud to partner with the PGA Tour.”
“A momentous day,” cheered Keith Pelley, whose European outfit could charitably be described as non-essential to the new alliance, but was brought along for appearances’ sake.
PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan forgot his prior reservations about the source of LIV’s financing and praised Al-Rumayyan’s “vision and collaborative and forward-thinking approach.” The deal is “transformational,” he announced, though a cynic might suggest that his new partner’s bonesaw has proven itself pretty transformational too.
Unless current tour players get massive checks, I don't see how this merger works. What prevents the top ten players - the ones people genuinely like - now do the same thing as LIV. Except they have the moral high ground.
That's much easier said than done.
LIV "worked" because Norman had the time, drive, business skills and spigot of endless funds to get another option off the ground. It was a perfect storm opportunity...
There won't be another breakaway "golf league" until there's another endless supply of money to start one. The top players are chump change compared to the bottomless Saudi money well. So was the PGA Tour that's why this happened.
The exposure faced by Al-Rumayyan and his investment fund in U.S. courts hastened the need for a face-saving settlement, so the time to burrow is at hand. Thus Saudi money stays in the game and both sides position it as an equitable resolution. If this were a genuine victory for LIV’s concept, the announcement would have featured Greg Norman, the league’s chief executive and propagandist. Instead, he was not mentioned. Still, not the first man disappeared after his utility for the Saudis concluded.
The coming months will see make-good maneuverings. A Crown Prince’s ransom must find its way to elite stars who chose not to bolt to LIV last year, while those who did must be recycled into the various tours. While this happens, the only attribute of value will be amnesia, a breezy willingness to forget accusations, insults and litigation. Sportswashing is now standard operating procedure, a shared article of faith for elite golf.
my counter-comment would be that we all live in the world we have not the one we want. in the world monahan had, KSA was willing to burn billions of dollars attempting to buy as much control as they could at the expense of the pga tour. he didnt ask for that and had no real recourse to protect beyond what they tried to do in courts and the like.
for fans of golf all we can do is hope that the deal monahan maneuvered gained enough protections to protect the pga tour. expecting jay monahan to vanquish completely one of the wealthiest nations in the world with their limitless resources set on a specific objective was not a reasonable expectation in the world we live in.
There won't be another breakaway "golf league" until there's another endless supply of money to start one. The top players are chump change compared to the bottomless Saudi money well. So was the PGA Tour that's why this happened.
FWIW, Norman wanted to do something like this back in the '90s. So, I don't think he was "used" here.
You can argue he's bitter about his relationship with the PGA guard, but I don't think he's been used at all. He was very eager to engage in this fight...
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In comment 16128558 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16128551 arniefez said:
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is a great day for golf is a very odd take to me.
that depends on how much of it they got in the deal. i dont disagree with that but it seems unlikely monahan would have caved for a weak deal when he could have done that at the beginning.
Per ESPN:
"PIF will be the exclusive investor in the new entity and will have the "exclusive right to further invest in the new enterprise, including a right of first refusal on any capital invested.""
PIF is the Saudi Arabian "Public Investment Fund." It does sound like they are the buyer in this transaction.
i dont have any more understanding of the details than what's been released publicly so far so it's possible the PGA tour gave up all control, but my guess is that they didnt and they just took what is effectively an enormous sponsorship and defused a threat. which was always the most probable outcome with the unlimited $ the ksa seemed willing to throw around in this.
whether it's amex or hyundai or bmw or schwab or whoever, any commercial organization is willing to trade access/influence for $. that's why nfl games can be flexed on thursdays and why there are patches on mlb uniforms. the question with this deal like any is figuring out how much either side gave up and my guess (which is just based on the leverage either side had) the pga probably got a good deal. without knowing anything beyond what's come out so far that could be a total misread.
It would be a pretty interesting sponsorship to include the Chairman seat.
PIF bought the PGA today.
It would be a pretty interesting sponsorship to include the Chairman seat.
PIF bought the PGA today.
its the chairman seat on a new commercial entity that didn't exist before, without majority voting rights over the pga tour which remains separate and as is.
the strength of the deal is how accurate that description of the deal ends up over time. they may have bought the pga tour today. or they may have spent a ton of money for a glorified sponsorship.
I love golf and was hoping this exact outcome could be achieved where both bodies combined.
But the PGA - the organization and certain players - looks very bad here after all of public barking. They folded big time.
Money is a very powerful drug.
You don’t have a problem with golfers or anyone for that matter taking $$$ from the country who had their hands all over 911?
I certainly do and lost all respect for those guys taking the money, and now the PGA too.
Make no mistake that the Saudi’s funded terrorism around the world.
This was a business decision for sure
The PGA financial condition must be in a weak position based on the monopoly lawsuit legal fees that could drag on for years and funding designated events this year.
How about the Corporate Sponsors who stood behind the PGA these past couple of years financially.
Finally, talk about a monopoly!!! What about this new golf combination of the 3 big tours.
Could this lead to future Saudi ownership of NFL, NBA, MLS teams? - ( New Window )
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with the players who took the PIF $ to join LIV. But the LIV product, IMV, was horrible. I felt like I was watching Caddy Shack 2.
I love golf and was hoping this exact outcome could be achieved where both bodies combined.
But the PGA - the organization and certain players - looks very bad here after all of public barking. They folded big time.
Money is a very powerful drug.
You don’t have a problem with golfers or anyone for that matter taking $$$ from the country who had their hands all over 911?
I certainly do and lost all respect for those guys taking the money, and now the PGA too.
I put the chances of Jay Monahan having to speak about this under oath to a congressional committee at 99%
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with the players who took the PIF $ to join LIV. But the LIV product, IMV, was horrible. I felt like I was watching Caddy Shack 2.
I love golf and was hoping this exact outcome could be achieved where both bodies combined.
But the PGA - the organization and certain players - looks very bad here after all of public barking. They folded big time.
Money is a very powerful drug.
You don’t have a problem with golfers or anyone for that matter taking $$$ from the country who had their hands all over 911?
I certainly do and lost all respect for those guys taking the money, and now the PGA too.
Ideally, sure. I wish LIV had a more wholesome financial backer.
But I suggest you look into the relationship our government has had with Saudi Arabia for close to a century. And still does.
Dirty money is everywhere. Check your 401(k) or pension. I guarantee your money is with companies who have business ties to China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.
The PGA, in fact, has had business relationships with China and Saudi Arabia.
Saudi oil money is messed up to say the least. But where’s the line? Rich old ass PGA American money built off plenty of BS is ok, but the Saudis are awful?
I get there’s levels to this. But where the line belongs is up to you personally. It’s just a very hard thing to figure out. I don’t like this in practice. But in theory, it’s hard for me to call it out when we’re mostly in America and “big bank take little bank” is king and fuck the little guy.
I’m very interested to see how “the line” moves these next 10-20 years. Hopefully it moves in the correct direction.
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with the players who took the PIF $ to join LIV. But the LIV product, IMV, was horrible. I felt like I was watching Caddy Shack 2.
I love golf and was hoping this exact outcome could be achieved where both bodies combined.
But the PGA - the organization and certain players - looks very bad here after all of public barking. They folded big time.
Money is a very powerful drug.
You don’t have a problem with golfers or anyone for that matter taking $$$ from the country who had their hands all over 911?
I certainly do and lost all respect for those guys taking the money, and now the PGA too.
Yet you buy gasoline every week from the very same people...
Yet you buy gasoline every week from the very same people...
US is a net exporter of petroleum.
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In comment 16128579 bw in dc said:
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with the players who took the PIF $ to join LIV. But the LIV product, IMV, was horrible. I felt like I was watching Caddy Shack 2.
I love golf and was hoping this exact outcome could be achieved where both bodies combined.
But the PGA - the organization and certain players - looks very bad here after all of public barking. They folded big time.
Money is a very powerful drug.
You don’t have a problem with golfers or anyone for that matter taking $$$ from the country who had their hands all over 911?
I certainly do and lost all respect for those guys taking the money, and now the PGA too.
Yet you buy gasoline every week from the very same people...
we'd love to stop if there wasnt a terrorist organization in DC that stops the move away from it at every chance they get. 🤷🏻♂️
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Yet you buy gasoline every week from the very same people...
US is a net exporter of petroleum.
Not since 2021....
Not since 2021....
Net exports in 2022 of @ 450M barrels
EiA - Petroleum Supply & Dispotion - ( New Window )
There's a lot more than golf that you'll need to boycott if you intend to fully detach yourself from Saudi financial interests.
Make sure you log off twitter and dont use ticketmaster at all as well just to name a couple of companies who have saudi investors
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Monahan is the biggest piece of shit in all of this for using/apologizing to 9/11 families to speak out against LIV only to line his pockets with the same money.
He definitely looks the worst of anyone, aside from the actual Saudi government. The players who stuck with the league just look like fools.
They are fools for refusing to align themselves with murderers? How about those that signed on with LIV will forever be seen as shitbirds of greed with blood on their heads, at least by some.
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And if my following the PGA tour in any way supports the bloodstained Saudi Arabian dictatorship, I will never watch again.
Make sure you log off twitter and dont use ticketmaster at all as well just to name a couple of companies who have saudi investors
I am never on twitter and don't use ticketmaster. And I will not watch PGA golf on TV as long as the Saudis are in charge of it.
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In comment 16128962 Mark C said:
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And if my following the PGA tour in any way supports the bloodstained Saudi Arabian dictatorship, I will never watch again.
Make sure you log off twitter and dont use ticketmaster at all as well just to name a couple of companies who have saudi investors
I am never on twitter and don't use ticketmaster. And I will not watch PGA golf on TV as long as the Saudis are in charge of it.
Make sure you dont order off of Amazon, no more google, hope you dont habe a visa, dont watch espn as they invested in disney, no nintendo, paypal, uber or zoom jist to name a few more..
Saudis have their money in everything
There is a big difference between the Saudis investing in public US companies and how it went down with PGA. PGA goes from a 'non-profit' entity, slamming the Saudis to for profit with Saudis the major investor?
The issue, IMO, is more of PGA made a willing choice to make a deal with the PIF where public companies don't necessarily have the same leisure.
At the end of the day, Saudi money is Saudi money, but the way it went down is probably what bothers people most. Especially after the posturing by the PGA.
I frankly don't give a shit one way or the other, but this is different than them investing in Google, IMO.
I think competition is a good thing, but now there is no more competition so it will be business as it historically was for golf which is unfortunate.
That is the best meme ever
There is a big difference between the Saudis investing in public US companies and how it went down with PGA. PGA goes from a 'non-profit' entity, slamming the Saudis to for profit with Saudis the major investor?
The issue, IMO, is more of PGA made a willing choice to make a deal with the PIF where public companies don't necessarily have the same leisure.
At the end of the day, Saudi money is Saudi money, but the way it went down is probably what bothers people most. Especially after the posturing by the PGA.
I frankly don't give a shit one way or the other, but this is different than them investing in Google, IMO.
I think competition is a good thing, but now there is no more competition so it will be business as it historically was for golf which is unfortunate.
When people say they wont watch anything backed by the saudis, that is what i am responding to..
You want to talk about being pissed at the PGA for selling out, fine, but dont say its because of saudi money..
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No shit. But as usual in life, there is nuance to everything.
There is a big difference between the Saudis investing in public US companies and how it went down with PGA. PGA goes from a 'non-profit' entity, slamming the Saudis to for profit with Saudis the major investor?
The issue, IMO, is more of PGA made a willing choice to make a deal with the PIF where public companies don't necessarily have the same leisure.
At the end of the day, Saudi money is Saudi money, but the way it went down is probably what bothers people most. Especially after the posturing by the PGA.
I frankly don't give a shit one way or the other, but this is different than them investing in Google, IMO.
I think competition is a good thing, but now there is no more competition so it will be business as it historically was for golf which is unfortunate.
When people say they wont watch anything backed by the saudis, that is what i am responding to..
You want to talk about being pissed at the PGA for selling out, fine, but dont say its because of saudi money..
Maybe for some people it is or that they are the majority investor. I don't know. I do think there is a difference for some people between the PIF being a major investor in something vs a very small percentage or tangentially involved. That line is probably different for everyone depending on their tolerance level.
Have to imagine the PGA does some sort of payout to Rory and Scheffler, right?
Idk that Brooks is that happy. He wanted to play fewer events this sounds like there will be more events that before which includes team events. The whole reason he jumped other than the money is that he couldn't recover from his injuries because of the schedule.
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In comment 16129085 BH28 said:
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No shit. But as usual in life, there is nuance to everything.
There is a big difference between the Saudis investing in public US companies and how it went down with PGA. PGA goes from a 'non-profit' entity, slamming the Saudis to for profit with Saudis the major investor?
The issue, IMO, is more of PGA made a willing choice to make a deal with the PIF where public companies don't necessarily have the same leisure.
At the end of the day, Saudi money is Saudi money, but the way it went down is probably what bothers people most. Especially after the posturing by the PGA.
I frankly don't give a shit one way or the other, but this is different than them investing in Google, IMO.
I think competition is a good thing, but now there is no more competition so it will be business as it historically was for golf which is unfortunate.
When people say they wont watch anything backed by the saudis, that is what i am responding to..
You want to talk about being pissed at the PGA for selling out, fine, but dont say its because of saudi money..
Maybe for some people it is or that they are the majority investor. I don't know. I do think there is a difference for some people between the PIF being a major investor in something vs a very small percentage or tangentially involved. That line is probably different for everyone depending on their tolerance level.
Good thing BlackRock and Vanguard (who own basically everything between them) have no ties to Saudi money.
/sarcasm
He spoke yesterday with his usual word salad.
Basically declared it a sad day for golf and tried to thread the needle - like some on this thread - why LIV was worse than the US government and US companies for going into business with the Saudis.
I think this is bad of golf. I think it's bad for sports in general and bad for anyone who is a fan of sports.
I've always been on the players side of every labor stoppage in the 4 major US sports but right now I'm glad they all have some sort of salary cap to prevent at least for now, the Saudi's from doing what they've done to European soccer. I'm hoping it won't happen in my lifetime.
I feel lucky being born when I was. Golf has many socioeconomic problems, don't get me started on the people who run the Masters but I love golf, playing it and watching it. I'm grateful I got to see Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods and all their peers play their entire careers before yesterday. I think nothing will ever be the same in golf. It feels to me that spirit of the sport died yesterday.
Lots of people think scumbag Phil Mickelson "won" something yesterday and that Rory McIlroy "lost". I don't agree. Rory can still buy a small country if he wants to and he'll win millions and millions more in his career and he'll be on the right side of history. He's become one of my favorite people in sports.
What happens when the Saudi's who now own all of golf except The Open Championship, the US Open, the PGA Championship and The Masters decide to operate their own tournaments somewhere outside the US or UK and make those tournaments mandatory to remain members of the SAPGA that runs every other big money golf tournament in the world?
What happens if SAPGA decides to play at Doral the same weekend as the US Open and offer a purse of 20 million to the winner?
If you don't think those a real possibilities you haven't been paying attention to how much the people who run SA hate our culture. Some of us will never forget.
“PGA Commissioner Jay Monahan co-opted the 9/11 community last year in the PGA’s unequivocal agreement that the Saudi LIV project was nothing more than sportswashing of Saudi Arabia’s reputation. But now the PGA and Monahan appear to have become just more paid Saudi shills, taking billions of dollars to cleanse the Saudi reputation so that Americans and the world will forget how the Kingdom spent their billions of dollars before 9/11 to fund terrorism, spread their vitriolic hatred of Americans, and finance al Qaeda and the murder of our loved ones.
Make no mistake – we will never forget,” said 9/11 Families United Chair Terry Strada, whose husband Tom died in the World Trade Center’s North Tower. “Mr. Monahan talked last summer about knowing people who lost loved ones on 9/11, then wondered aloud on national television whether LIV Golfers ever had to apologize for being a member of the PGA Tour.
They do now – as does he. PGA Tour leaders should be ashamed of their hypocrisy and greed. Our entire 9/11 community has been betrayed by Commissioner Monahan and the PGA as it appears their concern for our loved ones was merely window-dressing in their quest for money – it was never to honor the great game of golf.”
9/11 Families United Statement on PGA Merging with Saudi-backed LIV Golf Tour - ( New Window )
liv's golf was a terrible product and potentially destructive to the pga tour
that's the primary conflict that mattered. this deal is a potential resolution, and how well the pga tour did to retain control is imo the only question that matters.
how much $ everyone involved makes and the ownership structure is whatever it's going to be within the law/bylaws. we aren't getting paid either way. we dont get to choose who spends what on what.
I think this is bad of golf. I think it's bad for sports in general and bad for anyone who is a fan of sports.
the owners of every sports league have willingly done things bad for their games in the name of $. in this case the pga tour didn't ask for an attempted hostile takeover, so there were only bad options. the best of the bad options is if they did enough to leverage themselves enough power to protect the sport.
But if he thinks his run with PIF is going to be any different than Greg Norman's he's probably wrong. I think when all the details are worked out the minute they don't need him he's gone and it won't be a lot of minutes before they don't need him.
He's in a horrible position. I believe he was 100% sincere when he stood by the 9-11 families.
But at the end of the day, the PGA is a business. And I think there were legitimate concerns that his business was likely going to lose more talent to LIV; and more LIV golfers would continue to play in and win majors. Further, there was a real chance if the litigation continued between the PGA and LIV, some unflattering things would be revealed about the PGA in court and their war chest would take a hit.
Riding the horse called Morality only gets you so far in business. Eventually, it's really all about the PnL. And there is no line on an income statement that accounts of morality.
My guess is he received an offer he couldn't refuse and that it was better to take the criticism now versus down the line when the PGA could be in a more difficult position.
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Rory says he got a text on Monday night from Jimmy Dunne who then called him on Tuesday morning to walk him through the news. Wow.
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
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Rory: "When I try to remove myself from the situation and I look at the bigger picture, I think ultimately this is going to be good for the game of professional golf. It unifies it and secures its future."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory: "All the headlines were PGA Tour merges LIV ... LIV has got nothing to do with this."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
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Rory: "Technically anyone involved with LIV now would now answer to Jay. Weather you like it or not, the PIF were going to keep spending in golf. At least now you can control how the money is spent."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Do you still have confidence in Jay Monahan as commissioner of the PGA Tour?
Rory [deeeeeep breath]: "I do ..."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory: "It's hard for me not to sit up here and feel somewhat like a sacrificial lamb."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory: "I still hate LIV. I hate them. I hope it goes away and expect that it does." Correcting everyone who conflates LIV and the PIF.
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
1d
Rory is better at explaining Jay Monahan's deal than Jay Monahan is.
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
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Rory on Saudi money: "I've come to terms with it. I've resigned myself to ... this is what's going to happen. It's very hard to keep up with people who have more money than anyone else."
Kyle Porter @KylePorterCBS
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Rory on the players trying to hold on to their cards upset about the news: "It's hard for me to relate to those guys because I've never been in that position. I try to empathize."
Bonus comment from tiger, which was from a press conference last year (i think it was around 1 of the majors) - as the most newsworthy person in golf his comments sure look a lot more prescient than anything monahan said over the last 3 years.
Whether it was just part of his PR strategy or just pure hypocrisy, Monahan looks stupid because he has said a lot of enormously hypocritical things and did wrongfully use the 9/11 families. full stop. whether or not that public sentiment helped him keep golfers from bolting to liv over the last 3 years and helped create leverage to get the deal he got, i dont know, but i do think there's probably a way that could have been achieved with less hypocrisy. once PIF decided to light as much money on fire as they did, and engage in the courts like they did, some kind of settlement was the only path.
23h
Tiger didn't talk a ton about all of this last year, but here's one thing he said about the future of LIV and the PGA Tour.
The Saudi-PGA Golf Deal Isn't Going to Happen - ( New Window )
I think maybe we can wait for a source that isn't a political blogger who thinks everything on the planet is an antitrust violation.
This guy is an obvious hater. Article seems like trash, IMV
The tax implications alone would have bankrupt the PGA Tour. It would no longer exist. The whole thing would be LIV Golf.
The Saudi's were eager to settle as well since part of the lawsuit would have forced MBS to avail himself to a Deposition.
It was always going to happen. Jay Monahan had to have known this, which makes the language he used the whole time a joke.
I have a friend that plays on the LIV Tour. The PGA Tour funded a group of leftist (ANTIFA) professional protestors to go out to the LIV event in Portland to "protest" on "behalf of" 9/11 families. It was a total joke. They were literally paid actors "protesting" for money. The PGA Tour is using the imagery and pain of 9/11 as a bargaining chip in what amounts to a business dispute with a competitor.
To equate a 29 year old professional golfer cashing in on a $25 million payday to play golf with a different tour to a geopolitical religious extremist terrorist jihad is painfully stupid.
It's golf. Get over it. If everyone really wants to complain about something legitimate, maybe write your Congressman about what the U.S. Government continues to do Billion Dollar arms deals and Billion Dollar oil purchases with the Saudi's.
Quote:
from Brandel Chamblee, isn't it?
He spoke yesterday with his usual word salad.
Basically declared it a sad day for golf and tried to thread the needle - like some on this thread - why LIV was worse than the US government and US companies for going into business with the Saudis.
I was actually being sarcastic, should have added that part.
[/s]
Your friend told you The PGA Tour funded a group of leftist (ANTIFA) professional protestors to go out to the LIV event in Portland to "protest" on "behalf of" 9/11 families?
So you're saying this guy who spoke in Portland is an actor and his father wasn't killed by the 9/11 terrorists?
“Saudi Arabia is trying to sports-wash their reputation,” Sean Passananti, whose father died in the attacks, said in a press conference at the protest at Pumpkin Ridge Golf Club outside Portland, Oregon. “Instead of admitting their support and funding of al Qaeda, they are trying through the honorable game of golf to buy legitimacy.”
and this guy is an actor?
Brett Eagleson, whose father died on 9/11, said at Thursday’s news conference he plans to be at Bedminster next month to protest.
“One important message to these LIV golfers and the Kingdom is that we’re not going anywhere. Every tournament you’re going to have to deal with us in bigger numbers, more stories, from the families,” Eagleson said. “We’re going to be in your face for every tournament that is on US soil.”
and this guy is an actor who was in NJ?
“It’s simple,” said Tim Frolich, who was in the South Tower on 9/11. “The Saudis did it. They plotted it, they funded it, and now they are trying to distract every one of those things with a golf tournament 50 miles away from ground zero. It’s deplorable.”
That's pretty low of the PGA Tour. I'm surprised it hasn't gotten more coverage. How did your friend find out? Did Greg Norman tell him?
It looks like they paid the same actors to protest in NJ a month later too.
They hired this woman too?
“How much money does it take to turn your back on your country, on the American people?” said Juliette Scauso, who was 4 years old when her father, a firefighter Dennis Scauso, perished in the attacks.
Another paid actor?
"The utter, disgusting stench of that blood money is sure to follow you all the rest of your days," said Jay Winnick, whose brother firefighter Glenn Winuk, a longtime member of the Jericho Volunteer Fire Department rushed to the burning towers on Sept. 11, 2001, to tend to victims of the terrorist attack.
Winuk, 40, was working at his Manhattan law office the morning of the attacks, but he grabbed a medical bag and raced to pitch in with the rescue effort. He died when the skyscrapers collapsed; when his body was found in the rubble, months later, he was wearing surgical gloves and a stethoscope.
“LIV Golf?” he said. “For me and so many more of us, it’s more like death golf.”
Yet another actor?
Only these people know what it's like," said Richard Tipaldi, who lost his son Frank on 9/11. "It's 21 years already, and it's like yesterday."
I would think that Newsmax or OAN would have outed these people for the phonies and liars they are. Apparently those channels are not doing their jobs well.