Starting Lineups for both clubs today
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Probable Starting Pitcher Matchups today & tomorrow against the Braves
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#LFGM!
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Notes:
-The Mets are currently a .500 team with a 30-30 record.
-They're in third place in the NL East, 5.5 games behind the first place Braves.
-Two of the three kids are sitting today: Alvarez and Vientos.
-Vogelbach is DHing against the righty and Narvaez is at Catcher for Alvarez.
-Lindor is slumping badly still and is hitting second today.
-McNeil is in LF today (batting third today) and Escobar is playing 2B (batting eighth).
Alvarez, Canha, Vientos, & Pham
Say what you want, but the Mets are a better club with Narvaez in lieu of Nido now. Hopefully Narvaez stays healthy now. He's a fine re-addition. Buck ain't wasting anytime putting him out there tonight. I just wish Alvarez's bat was in the lineup at DH instead of Vogey, especially with this particular opponent. No reason to give away games.
It looks like Vogelbach or Pham have to be next to go, but via trade this time. I'm assuming this won't happen until near the trade deadline on July 31st. Hope I'm wrong though. I'd rather it be Vogelbach and hope it's sooner instead of later to get Mauricio up here, but it seems like he'll need another month and a half to acclimate to LF in Syracuse before anything is considered. Gonna be an interesting buildup to the trading deadline during the next 7 to 8 weeks or so.
Current MLB standings
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-The Mets need to not get swept here. That would be painful. One of three is the minimum. 2 of 3 would help point them in the right direction IMHO. This is a big series.
Why is the hitting coach not on the hot seat? If one guy is slumping, you figure it's that guy. If everyone is slumping, doesn't that suggest the coaching is a problem. Then you have young hitters coming up, starting strong and then cooling off — which is common, since the league gets a book on them, but it's also consistent with bad coaching at the MLB level.
I feel the same way.
It seems like the Mets front office has been a clownshow since 1988.
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PlayoffStatus.com - MLB - Week 11 of 27 - National League Playoff Picture
Will any of the guys listed 21 to 30 go in a deal for a reliever?
MLB.com New York Mets Prospect Rankings for 2023 - Top 30 - ( New Window )
He left because Nats promised him he'd start. Not sure how much he'd welcome the BP transition.
Mauricio
Vasil
Williams
Tidwell
Rudick
Peroza
Ramirez
Ziegler
McIlwain
My list is really weighted towards upper levels and likelihood of making majors. Probably some younger guys who should be on there but I tend to look at production.
Will any of the guys listed 21 to 30 go in a deal for a reliever?
MLB.com New York Mets Prospect Rankings for 2023 - Top 30 - ( New Window )
Because he didn't pass rookie status yet. I think 45 days on active roster or 50 IP or 130 AB. He hasn't reached any of those milestones yet.
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I have no idea why Mark Vientos is still on this list since he's in the Show now.
Will any of the guys listed 21 to 30 go in a deal for a reliever?
MLB.com New York Mets Prospect Rankings for 2023 - Top 30 - ( New Window )
Because he didn't pass rookie status yet. I think 45 days on active roster or 50 IP or 130 AB. He hasn't reached any of those milestones yet.
Thanks GF!
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Scott Barlow from KC (article on him HERE) is one and former Met Trevor Williams from the horrible Nats is the other.
He left because Nats promised him he'd start. Not sure how much he'd welcome the BP transition.
Gotta try, right?
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In comment 16128850 Optimus-NY said:
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I have no idea why Mark Vientos is still on this list since he's in the Show now.
Will any of the guys listed 21 to 30 go in a deal for a reliever?
MLB.com New York Mets Prospect Rankings for 2023 - Top 30 - ( New Window )
Because he didn't pass rookie status yet. I think 45 days on active roster or 50 IP or 130 AB. He hasn't reached any of those milestones yet.
Thanks GF!
NP! Thanks for all your posts here to keep us informed. I like the visuals.
And believe it or not today is the 45th day on active roster for Vientos so he graduated from prospect status. Pipeline just updated and they have him out and Chris Larez now enters as prospect #30.
While Mark Canha’s OPS is only down 35 points from where it was this time last season, left field as a whole has been more of a black hole in the New York lineup. (Some of that falls on Jeff McNeil, whose OPS when playing left is just .452.) McNeil’s OPS as a whole is down 106 points. Luis Guillorme’s lack of production accentuates the plummet at second base.
The Mets still haven’t solved their DH conundrum — it wasn’t like they were getting all-world numbers from that spot last season — and both Francisco Lindor and Starling Marte are significantly down from where they were a year ago.
half full = mcneil and lindor are all stars, the babip should be as low as it is, especially without the shift. canha and marte have started to look better. the babip is pretty glaring though and seems likely to turn around.
@Metsmerized
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1m
Alex Ramírez continues his hot stretch as he whacked another home run tonight for Brooklyn (High-A).
The 20-year-old now has five home runs and 29 RBIs on the season.
His average up to .260 and OPS up to .743 after a slow start.
#Mets
Mauricio
Vasil
Williams
Tidwell
Rudick
Peroza
Ramirez
Ziegler
McIlwain
My list is really weighted towards upper levels and likelihood of making majors. Probably some younger guys who should be on there but I tend to look at production.
Why so low with Ramirez?
I would have him after Jett probably.
Mike Puma @NYPost_Mets - Tweets - ( New Window )
Mets at Braves | 9 pm EDT start - June 6, 2023 - TV Broadcast: Braves' feed
MLB.com - Gameday: Pitch by Pitch - Mets at Braves - June 6, 2023 - 9 pm EDT start
Enjoy :-)
Joe DeMayo
@PSLToFlushing
Alex Ramirez has homered in two straight games for High-A @BKCyclones
fan of his game and timing lines up with when it may make sense to shift nimmo to a corner (or just give him more rest). not untradeable but he's a good prospect.
https://twitter.com/PSLToFlushing/status/1666248103656136707 - ( New Window )
Can Jose Butto be a better option in the Mets pen?
his average exit velocity over his 2 years at the MLB level is 94.7mph. that would be 6th best in baseball.
he had 2 near homers to cf that would have been out in other parks in the series vs toronto. young players cant get better not playing. no issue giving vogelbach occasional starts but they have to give up on this idea that he is any way, shape, or form a #5 hitter. he is a role player who presents severe roster flexibility limitations.
He batted 4th.
Unless I'm mistaken I think the Mets rookies have started in the top 4 in the lineup a total of 1 time this year.
1 run game you have 6 outs left,
narvaez has no power and first game back,
pham hit 2 homers last game and hits lefties.
buck was too slow as usual w/ bp but pham there is fine.
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Why is Pham pinch hitting for Narvaez.. this is ridiculous.. idk what the hell Keith and Gary are on defending this move. Total BS
1 run game you have 6 outs left,
narvaez has no power and first game back,
pham hit 2 homers last game and hits lefties.
buck was too slow as usual w/ bp but pham there is fine.
I meant instead of Alvarez
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In comment 16128989 moze1021 said:
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Why is Pham pinch hitting for Narvaez.. this is ridiculous.. idk what the hell Keith and Gary are on defending this move. Total BS
1 run game you have 6 outs left,
narvaez has no power and first game back,
pham hit 2 homers last game and hits lefties.
buck was too slow as usual w/ bp but pham there is fine.
I meant instead of Alvarez
he's on a 1/17 and hasnt done much pinch hitting. no issue if you choose him but pham is just as defendable. managers generally dont like not having a catcher on the bench if a game goes into extras.
pham has been decent and coming off a big game. pinch hitting late with rookies in cold streaks isnt setting them up for success, it's more of a last resort type situation.
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In comment 16128990 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16128989 moze1021 said:
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Why is Pham pinch hitting for Narvaez.. this is ridiculous.. idk what the hell Keith and Gary are on defending this move. Total BS
1 run game you have 6 outs left,
narvaez has no power and first game back,
pham hit 2 homers last game and hits lefties.
buck was too slow as usual w/ bp but pham there is fine.
I meant instead of Alvarez
he's on a 1/17 and hasnt done much pinch hitting. no issue if you choose him but pham is just as defendable. managers generally dont like not having a catcher on the bench if a game goes into extras.
I mean I can buy the slump thing I guess, but I still disagree...
Your catcher on the bench thing makes no sense though in this case. Alvarez had to come in anyway
But maybe you can defend that by saying he got the GIDP the inning before.
However, I just don't see how you let him face Murphy after a walk and a double. Runners on second and third so no GIDP possibility
It really seems sometimes that Buck is more concerned with saving the pen--even after a day off--than he is with winning the game.
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In comment 16128991 moze1021 said:
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In comment 16128990 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16128989 moze1021 said:
Quote:
Why is Pham pinch hitting for Narvaez.. this is ridiculous.. idk what the hell Keith and Gary are on defending this move. Total BS
1 run game you have 6 outs left,
narvaez has no power and first game back,
pham hit 2 homers last game and hits lefties.
buck was too slow as usual w/ bp but pham there is fine.
I meant instead of Alvarez
he's on a 1/17 and hasnt done much pinch hitting. no issue if you choose him but pham is just as defendable. managers generally dont like not having a catcher on the bench if a game goes into extras.
I mean I can buy the slump thing I guess, but I still disagree...
Your catcher on the bench thing makes no sense though in this case. Alvarez had to come in anyway
duh forgot who he was pinch hitting for.
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Pham is the 3rd best RH bat off the bench
pham has been decent and coming off a big game. pinch hitting late with rookies in cold streaks isnt setting them up for success, it's more of a last resort type situation.
You sound like Buck man! How does a rookie get used to coming off the bench in a big situation if you don't give them a chance at it in June? Don't forget Alvarez and Vientos have had 4 of the biggest clutch hits for the Mets this year...
Damn..I sure as hell don't want bums like Vogelbach or Pham getting big September/October at bats vs guys like Vientos/Alvarez/Mauricio who all have more talent in their pinkies!! Enough of this bullshit with the low ceiling and just as low floor veterans..
But maybe you can defend that by saying he got the GIDP the inning before.
However, I just don't see how you let him face Murphy after a walk and a double. Runners on second and third so no GIDP possibility
It really seems sometimes that Buck is more concerned with saving the pen--even after a day off--than he is with winning the game.
which has been his habit since september last year. no urgency to keep close games close. always saving his powder for the next game.
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I would have pulled CC after he walked the leadoff hitter. He was leaving his pitches up.
But maybe you can defend that by saying he got the GIDP the inning before.
However, I just don't see how you let him face Murphy after a walk and a double. Runners on second and third so no GIDP possibility
It really seems sometimes that Buck is more concerned with saving the pen--even after a day off--than he is with winning the game.
which has been his habit since september last year. no urgency to keep close games close. always saving his powder for the next game.
Saves his powder. Or after the opponent takes the lead he brings in his top bullpen guys anyway--a case of closing the barn door after the horses have run out.
Damn that deadline was such a turning point
So Buck's moves really backfired tonight.
McNeil at 2B, Canha in LF and Vientos at DH--Mets probably win the game
this team is 1 step forward 1 step back, still paying for the sins of last year.
im very close to flipping from defending buck to the exact opposite side in a span of 1 game thread. he just keeps making bad decisions on the margins. ill blame eppler for most of the shitty bp depth highlighted by the ridiculously stupid decision to trade holderman (which we all first guessed).
but buck makes the lineup card and vogelbach should not be hitting 5th until he at least hits 1 ball actually over a wall, and more realistically 5-10.
you cannot leave carrasco out there like he did. turned a game that should have been a win into a very bad loss.
Damn that deadline was such a turning point
every time i see iglesias in there looking unhittable (to us at least) i relive the stupid comment about robust relievers. also every time vogelbach does nothing which is often.
Damn that deadline was such a turning point
It's ironic because JD is the one veteran that Buck did not play regularly.
If he did and JD hit like he has this year (.853 OPS), the Ruf and Vogey trades never happen.
And Mets still have Holderman
this team is 1 step forward 1 step back, still paying for the sins of last year.
im very close to flipping from defending buck to the exact opposite side in a span of 1 game thread. he just keeps making bad decisions on the margins. ill blame eppler for most of the shitty bp depth highlighted by the ridiculously stupid decision to trade holderman (which we all first guessed).
but buck makes the lineup card and vogelbach should not be hitting 5th until he at least hits 1 ball actually over a wall, and more realistically 5-10.
you cannot leave carrasco out there like he did. turned a game that should have been a win into a very bad loss.
Eric: you have been judiciously critical of Buck since last September.
I think most of us tend to over-react to Buck in the game threads and you "defend" Buck from that over-reaction.
But overall, you have been very balanced when it comes to Buck
Damn that deadline was such a turning point
We can literally point to that week as the turning point for the Buck/Eppler era taking a turn down. Really started with the bad Holderman trade but Vogey activity hit with power when he first came over. What a mess.
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And we gave up a ransom for Ruf, Vogelbach, and Naquin..
Damn that deadline was such a turning point
We can literally point to that week as the turning point for the Buck/Eppler era taking a turn down. Really started with the bad Holderman trade but Vogey activity hit with power when he first came over. What a mess.
+1
It has now become impossible to justify putting Vogelbach in the Mets starting lineup. And if he’s not starting regularly, what purpose does he serve? The universal DH makes the need for pinch hitters like him unnecessary. The Mets could only ever use him to pinch hit for a righty late in a game and if it's not the ninth inning or the game continues on, it might require a secondary move.
Enough is enough with Daniel Vogelbach whose welcome has been worn out - By Tim Boyle | 8:00 AM EDT | RisingApple.com - ( New Window )
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while burning 2/4 best relievers, who each gave up runs.
this team is 1 step forward 1 step back, still paying for the sins of last year.
im very close to flipping from defending buck to the exact opposite side in a span of 1 game thread. he just keeps making bad decisions on the margins. ill blame eppler for most of the shitty bp depth highlighted by the ridiculously stupid decision to trade holderman (which we all first guessed).
but buck makes the lineup card and vogelbach should not be hitting 5th until he at least hits 1 ball actually over a wall, and more realistically 5-10.
you cannot leave carrasco out there like he did. turned a game that should have been a win into a very bad loss.
Eric: you have been judiciously critical of Buck since last September.
I think most of us tend to over-react to Buck in the game threads and you "defend" Buck from that over-reaction.
But overall, you have been very balanced when it comes to Buck
yeah i mean i try to not lose sight of the fact that through 5 months last year the personality of the team was everything we'd want - professional, fundamental, tough minded, clutch etc.
september was a terrible month and the start this year has been way too uneven. there are some obvious scapegoats (corner OFers, injuries, thin bp etc) but more and more as they've gotten healthy and rested buck's inability to get things right at DH and his bad decisions when the pen is rested stand out as consistent problems that are taking way too long to solve.
eppler gets partial blame on both too because his crappy moves in those spots havent helped. if he'd just spent a little more of cohen's money in those spots - money we know cohen was willing to spend since he handed correa a $300m deal - the team would be better right now. his under the radar moves have only hit the radar for the wrong reasons.
Really frustrating loss last night. Cohen is quiet for now, but rest assured, he's fuming behind the scenes.
Disagree. It’s not like the Mets are losing games in the 8th or 9th, and Robinson has been really good. Last years was a bit of a mirage, with a season BABIP around .310. That wasn’t sustainable.
The question is, what now? Reports are that Cohen is getting really frustrated, and firings could be coming. Also reported that CLE may make Bieber available, wonder what it would take to get him?
Hard pass on Bieber. He's not the pitcher he once was and I'm not counting on the Mets to be the team to "turn him around". K rate has dropped now 4 seasons running and is now... 6.1 k/9. No thanks.
Finding the right match could prove difficult. A quick survey of beat writers at The Athletic revealed the Angels (his hometown team), Orioles, Rangers, Cardinals, Astros, Padres, Mets and Dodgers could all express varying degrees of interest. Some of those teams have needs in their rotation. Some of those teams have a surplus of young outfielders. Some have both.
If the Guardians move Bieber this summer, it’ll be to a playoff contender. But will a contender part with a capable young hitter (or two) who has either reached the majors or is nearing such a promotion? In past deals, the Guardians have obtained both immediate and future help. For Clevinger, for example, they landed three big leaguers (Josh Naylor, Cal Quantrill, Austin Hedges) and three prospects (Gabriel Arias, Owen Miller, Joey Cantillo).
One scout was skeptical Bieber could net the Guardians as much as the Reds received for Luis Castillo last summer, though they noted Cleveland’s front office rarely budges from its asking price. The Guardians may seek a return worthy of a No. 1 to No. 2 starter, but other teams (aside from the A’s) have access to FanGraphs and Baseball Savant, where they can unearth Bieber’s underlying metrics. Castillo, like Bieber, had a year and change remaining of team control. The Reds landed three of Seattle’s top five prospects, per MLB Pipeline, though the Mariners did turn around two months later and sign Castillo to a five-year deal worth more than $100 million.
we had all bitched about how they kept plugging john "the best pinch hitter in baseball" mayberry into the cleanup spot, and a bunch of scrubs like that, and the lineup was terrible.
they claimed a few veterans off the waiver wire and announced "from now on the best guys are playing, period". and it lit a fire. they scored like 10+ runs that first game.
maybe there's 1 or 2 symbolic moves they can make but what BUCK should do right now is say look, we are all professionals here and we've tried to be patient, but it's June 7 and we aren't even at .500. no more excuses. the best guys are playing. you hit you stay in the lineup. no more benching guys day after they hit big homers. be ready in the BP. we have 4-6 weeks to earn the trust of management trading for reinforcements that we need to play like playoff baseball.
• Ethan Salas, already the most heralded Padres catching prospect ever, made his minor-league debut Tuesday with Low-A Lake Elsinore. He reached base in seven of his first eight plate appearances. Then he turned 17 on Thursday. Salas was the first 16-year-old to appear in full-season ball since Julio Urías in 2013. According to Baseball America, the last time a 16-year-old position player got extended time in full-season ball was Edgar Renteria in 1993. — Dennis Lin
I don’t listen to FAN, so I definitely didn’t hear it there, I think I saw it in the Athletic.
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Wouldn’t call Brandon Tierney’s BS “reports”. WFAN has truly gone downhill.
I don’t listen to FAN, so I definitely didn’t hear it there, I think I saw it in the Athletic.
They Athletic most certainly did not report Cohen is getting frustrated and firings could be coming. I read their Mets coverage every morning, including Rosenthal.
I do think enough time has now passed where it is fair to look back at the trade deadline and think he may have ruined a good thing that was going. Their records pre and post deadline (carrying into this season) speak for themselves.
Whether that's a coincidence or not, it is a fact.
"“The Mets are one week away from having their owner turn into somebody we have not yet seen,” BT said. “Steve Cohen is a few more losses away from exploding, and when I say exploding, I mean firing, altering, flipping stuff over…I think the next few days, if they don’t play well, we’re waiting on Cohen.
“You don’t get to that point in life by being cutthroat…anyone who thinks Steve Cohen is going to take this lying down is out of their minds.”"
I do think enough time has now passed where it is fair to look back at the trade deadline and think he may have ruined a good thing that was going. Their records pre and post deadline (carrying into this season) speak for themselves.
Whether that's a coincidence or not, it is a fact.
Stearns is close with Eppler. Eppler would likely remain.
"While Showalter, who turns 67 on Tuesday, is under contract through next season, Steve Cohen figures to make significant changes if the season ends badly."
you give your GM a $345M payroll and allow him to outspend the next closest team by almost $70M and these are the results?
You can give me all the excuses on the planet and I don't care. at some level the excuses no longer matter.
@mikemayer22
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3h
After going 0-for-4 with 3 strikeouts on Tuesday night, Daniel Vogelbach is 6-for-47 with 1 extra-base hit, 1 RBI, and 16 K's.
He's now hitting just .209/.345/.304 for the season.
Mets have to make a decision here. Can't continue to get zero production from primary DH.
agreed - i think the symbolic gesture would more likely be a player like vogelbach getting DFA'd.
Vogelbach needs to go sooner rather than later, and then Mauricio needs to come up. These kids need to play. Buck is not the manager for this team going forward. He does get the year though in all likelihood.
Mets Trash Talk Goes WRONG Against The Braves - ( New Window )
Mets Trash Talk Goes WRONG Against The Braves - ( New Window )
F'ing Mets - When did these guys earn the right to pound their chests? Be humble - Cohen bought the team, it didn't buy or guarantee success. F off
Can anyone think of another example like this in NY sports? Where a manager was just so infatuated/stubborn with a subpar player and he just kept throwing him out there?
@mikemayer22
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5h
Baseball America has updated their top 100 list with 3 Mets on it compared to 7 Mets on last months edition. Brett Baty and Kodai Senga have graduated, and Alex Ramírez and Jett Williams have fallen off the list.
No. 7 Francisco Álvarez
No. 64 Ronny Mauricio
No. 72 Kevin Parada
The next day, Buck benches him, he did not even make a PH appearance.
Since May 17, the Mets have played 18 games, and Vientos has had 9 starts, but only playing the complete game 5 times.
In those 18 games, he has 34 plate appearances, with 6 hits, 2 BBs, 4 RBI, and the aforementioned HR, striking out 9 times.
His batting line is .188/.206/.487
Also since May 17, also with 9 starts, also with 5 complete games.
In that span, Vogelbach has received 38 PAs, with 3 Hs, one of them a double, 0 HRs, 1 RBI, 8 BBs, and 12 Ks.
Neither has been good, but obviously the time share is not working for either player. But Vogey was playing regularly before the MV promotion, and he wasn't hitting then, either.
Buck has screwed up Vientos. I hope he hasn't hurt his confidence, but it would be strange if he hadn't.
When a player comes up and hits one of the biggest homers of the season right away, you play him the next day. Instead, Vientos got just 11 plate appearances over the 7 games.
The saddest part is that now you may have to send him back down for him to get going again and hopefully re-gain his confidence.
You have to find a way to get all of the kids regular ABs, regular starts. If someone who hasn't been a contributor needs to be DFA'd to do it, so be it.
You look at how the Reds have treated Matt McLain, they called him up, and he's been their everyday SS, and he's rewarded them with a .341 BA and .896 OPS. McLain was promoted May 15, just a couple of days before Vientos, and he has 96 PAs. McLain 96 PAs, Vientos 34. Sad situation.
IMO Buck has done a poor job ever since last September. But the problems with this organization run far deeper than the manager or even the GM.
The next day, Buck benches him, he did not even make a PH appearance.
Since May 17, the Mets have played 18 games, and Vientos has had 9 starts, but only playing the complete game 5 times.
In those 18 games, he has 34 plate appearances, with 6 hits, 2 BBs, 4 RBI, and the aforementioned HR, striking out 9 times.
His batting line is .188/.206/.487
Also since May 17, also with 9 starts, also with 5 complete games.
In that span, Vogelbach has received 38 PAs, with 3 Hs, one of them a double, 0 HRs, 1 RBI, 8 BBs, and 12 Ks.
Neither has been good, but obviously the time share is not working for either player. But Vogey was playing regularly before the MV promotion, and he wasn't hitting then, either.
Buck has screwed up Vientos. I hope he hasn't hurt his confidence, but it would be strange if he hadn't.
When a player comes up and hits one of the biggest homers of the season right away, you play him the next day. Instead, Vientos got just 11 plate appearances over the 7 games.
The saddest part is that now you may have to send him back down for him to get going again and hopefully re-gain his confidence.
You have to find a way to get all of the kids regular ABs, regular starts. If someone who hasn't been a contributor needs to be DFA'd to do it, so be it.
You look at how the Reds have treated Matt McLain, they called him up, and he's been their everyday SS, and he's rewarded them with a .341 BA and .896 OPS. McLain was promoted May 15, just a couple of days before Vientos, and he has 96 PAs. McLain 96 PAs, Vientos 34. Sad situation.
Buck never wanted Vientos called up. That's why he is not giving him regular ABs