As mentioned before it's the value of the player. He is damaged goods and has a huge contract. He averaged 69 yards rushing a game last year. Not worth the contract for the production. For say the Dolphins, who can sign him cheaper, it may be worth it.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
3m
Someone explain this League to me.
We have a very good player still in his prime and we are in a win-now window. Let’s dump him because he plays … (gasp) RB! Surely, Alexander Mattison will just do the same things
But then let’s watch other teams draft RBs with 2 top-12 picks
It's about the money.
Maybe not this year, but Christian McCaffery will suffer the same fate. Running backs will not be paid exorbitant amounts of money. That's the new NFL business model.
Everyone will say Cook to Dallas, but Dallas will not pay his asking price. He is going to command 10 million plus. What team is willing to pay that?
I assume like most NFL contracts, it is back loaded. So nothing too unusual about this it seems.
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
It's going to be difficult for them to sign him if Cook wants to get paid.
Buffalo the other favorite is in the same boat. 5.5 this year and minus 25.4 next year.
Dallas has the cap space this year and next, but they have to sign Diggs, Lamb, and Parsons to new deals. Plus with Pollard and Elliott's dead money they have close to 20 million spent on the RB position this year.
If this is a cap data move, it's a weird time to make it. I don't buy it.
If they made this move at the beginning of the league year, they would have saved an additional 2M. They are also in a comfortable cap situation for 2023 and 2024.
If this is a cap data move, it's a weird time to make it. I don't buy it.
If they made this move at the beginning of the league year, they would have saved an additional 2M. They are also in a comfortable cap situation for 2023 and 2024.
timing injury-related bc of the shoulder surgery maybe so he can pass a physical?
i generally agree with you that on the list of reasons value per $ isn't at the top. i think this is a team choosing to move on from the guy whose health/production level is uncertain going forward, probably knowing they need $ to extend cousins. which i could see being in both sides interest to get done over the next month bc he is only scheduled to make $10m in new cash on his current deal, so they have some leverage to get him to sign now vs waiting until next year. a 2 year extension probably gets him 100m+ of new guaranteed $ before taking another snap.
Saquon if Cook signs some place for under $10 mill. He is a very comparable back.
coming off his 3rd shoulder surgery he isnt. that's probably one of the worst injuries for a running back.
Well, we will disagree - everyone bitches about Saquon's injury history and his missed games. It is really not a point to quibble over. They both missed time..
- But -
Cook is, talentwise, very comparable to Barkley.
Cook has had over 1,100 Yards rushing the last 4 years
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
3m
Someone explain this League to me.
We have a very good player still in his prime and we are in a win-now window. Let’s dump him because he plays … (gasp) RB! Surely, Alexander Mattison will just do the same things
But then let’s watch other teams draft RBs with 2 top-12 picks
Eh, plenty of times guys like Mattison have stepped up and adequately replaced an "unreplaceable" RB.
Well, as sorry as one can be for a guy who's only getting $10 million to play a game this season rather than the $13 he could have had.
It's good news for the Giants. As noted, Cook may be the closest comp to Barkley.
I'd say this move significantly lessens the odds Barkley rolls the dice on the tag. The Giants will make a fair offer, they'll arm wrestle, and a longer term deal will be signed in 35 days.
He has the final say. Both he and his agent screwed up.
Honestly, let him play on the tag imv. Don’t overpay
Don’t cave in to SB. He is going into his 6th year and I don’t want to see him sign a 3 or 4 year deal. But that’s just my view.
baring on Barkley since his agent hasn’t been logical ( or intelligent) in handling him to this point. I think there is a real possibility he doesn’t sign his tag and doesn’t play the first 10 games this year.
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
Or maybe the agent gave him a run down on the possible outcomes and let Barkley decide for himself. A good agent doesn't advise you on what you should do, they tell you what they believe are the risks and rewards of a given decision and then let you decide for yourself. Barkley is a grown man fully capable of making decisions for himself and he alone is accountable for his decisions. Don't blame the agent!
...and it will be $20 million. They also want to keep Hockenson, who is making $9.3 million in 2023 on his 5th year option.
Cook was due $14 million this year, and the Vikings save over $5 million by cutting him. Even with the ~$8 million dead cap hit this year, having him completely off the books in 2024 gives room for Jefferson and his 5th year option.
Or is they extend Jefferson before 2024, they will have a lot of cap space to improve the defense.
And the problem with the Vikings is not offense, its defense.
Some of his advanced metrics took a big hit last year
I know his win rate was among the worst in the league. Eye test he appeared to lose a little too and that shoulder is a chronic thing, it's not going to go away. The writing was on the wall when they gave Mattison an extension.
Saquon can make EIGHT FIGURES this year, why feel bad for him?
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
when it comes to Saquon. Let's say some team goes nuts and signs Cook to a McCaffrey-type deal. Even then, I don't think it will give Saquon leverage toward getting the deal he wants.
The only thing that *might* turn the situation back in Barkley's favor are a wave of team injuries that change the offensive outlook for the season. If Daniel Jones suffers a Teddy Bridgewater-like knee injury in a non-contact drill, and now we have to face the season with Tyrod Taylor at QB, then Barkley getting a long-term deal starts to look like a real possibility.
...and it will be $20 million. They also want to keep Hockenson, who is making $9.3 million in 2023 on his 5th year option.
Cook was due $14 million this year, and the Vikings save over $5 million by cutting him. Even with the ~$8 million dead cap hit this year, having him completely off the books in 2024 gives room for Jefferson and his 5th year option.
Or is they extend Jefferson before 2024, they will have a lot of cap space to improve the defense.
And the problem with the Vikings is not offense, its defense.
Mattison is also a very underrated back. He’s played admirably when Cook has missed time the last few years.
It's going to be difficult for them to sign him if Cook wants to get paid.
Buffalo the other favorite is in the same boat. 5.5 this year and minus 25.4 next year.
Dallas has the cap space this year and next, but they have to sign Diggs, Lamb, and Parsons to new deals. Plus with Pollard and Elliott's dead money they have close to 20 million spent on the RB position this year.
Finding a suitor for Cook may take a while.
Buffalo would be interesting from a human-interest angle, with the Cook brothers paired up as a RB committee.
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
We can’t make claims like this because we don’t know what the guarantees were in the contract. Barkley could of signed a 3 year 60 mill contract (20 mill a year) with 18 mill guaranteed, it’s a bad contract.
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
We can’t make claims like this because we don’t know what the guarantees were in the contract. Barkley could of signed a 3 year 60 mill contract (20 mill a year) with 18 mill guaranteed, it’s a bad contract.
Exactly.
Schoen could offer Barkley a 2yr $100M contract, with $10M guaranteed as his 2023 salary, and Barkley would have the largest RB AAV in NFL history, but it would still just be the equivalent of the franchise tag.
is that either he or his agent thought they had some leverage because Mara has a big mouth and told the world that he wanted Barkley a Giant for life.
You can think it, John, but don't profess it to the world until AFTER the signing.
Why not? It didnt hurt him or his franchise. Right now SB is kinda twisting in the wind while Mara was trying to express lyoalty to the player (won't cut him after a year or so if he performs) and Barkley's team has come off as short-sighted and only driven by the max he can get in a contract. If I am John, I am saying to myself "we dodged a bullet" based on RB market this year.
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
3m
Someone explain this League to me.
We have a very good player still in his prime and we are in a win-now window. Let’s dump him because he plays … (gasp) RB! Surely, Alexander Mattison will just do the same things
But then let’s watch other teams draft RBs with 2 top-12 picks
This assumes the Falcons (Robinson) and the Lions (Gibbs) did the right thing.
And neither did, especially Lions taking Gibbs at #12.
I have a feeling the Lions DC Aaron Glenn would have much preferred taking Christian Gonzalez.
The $13 million AAV was a blessing in disguise. Franchise him once or twice and if he doesn't like it trade him. Let him prove he can play 17 games without getting hurt which he has done basically once.
Saquon if Cook signs some place for under $10 mill. He is a very comparable back.
coming off his 3rd shoulder surgery he isnt. that's probably one of the worst injuries for a running back.
That's true, Saquan is never hurt....
Hasn't Barkley played pretty much every game for the past 2 seasons? Sure he got his shoulder banged up vs Green Bay, but he played through it. I'm not sure I would call him injury prone at this point
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
We can’t make claims like this because we don’t know what the guarantees were in the contract. Barkley could of signed a 3 year 60 mill contract (20 mill a year) with 18 mill guaranteed, it’s a bad contract.
That is just silly. Possible outcomes for SB works 1 year gets $18MM and back in the pool. Works 2 years $18MM plus whatever year 2 is - since $40MM left lets say year 3 is $25MM - he get 2yrs/$33MM and back in the pool. stays 3 years gets $60MM. Every possible outcome for SB is great and much better than he will ever see.
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
We can’t make claims like this because we don’t know what the guarantees were in the contract. Barkley could of signed a 3 year 60 mill contract (20 mill a year) with 18 mill guaranteed, it’s a bad contract.
That is just silly. Possible outcomes for SB works 1 year gets $18MM and back in the pool. Works 2 years $18MM plus whatever year 2 is - since $40MM left lets say year 3 is $25MM - he get 2yrs/$33MM and back in the pool. stays 3 years gets $60MM. Every possible outcome for SB is great and much better than he will ever see.
It doesn’t work that way. If they would have given him 18 mill guaranteed he would have been here a minimum of two years @ the full 18 mill. Barkley would have been better off playing both years on the franchise tag earning 22 million of the two years.
So unless the Giants guaranteed Barkley more than 23 million, he wasn’t signing. We don’t know what the Giants offered in guarantees, so we can’t make assumptions.
He had a $14m cap hit. His release gains $9m in cap space with a $5m dead cap. They had $9m in cap space before the move.
As mentioned before it's the value of the player. He is damaged goods and has a huge contract. He averaged 69 yards rushing a game last year. Not worth the contract for the production. For say the Dolphins, who can sign him cheaper, it may be worth it.
Quote:
Ryan Dunleavy
@rydunleavy
·
3m
Someone explain this League to me.
We have a very good player still in his prime and we are in a win-now window. Let’s dump him because he plays … (gasp) RB! Surely, Alexander Mattison will just do the same things
But then let’s watch other teams draft RBs with 2 top-12 picks
It's about the money.
Maybe not this year, but Christian McCaffery will suffer the same fate. Running backs will not be paid exorbitant amounts of money. That's the new NFL business model.
Everyone will say Cook to Dallas, but Dallas will not pay his asking price. He is going to command 10 million plus. What team is willing to pay that?
I assume like most NFL contracts, it is back loaded. So nothing too unusual about this it seems.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
It is more about the value of a dollar than the player.
This is right.
It's going to be difficult for them to sign him if Cook wants to get paid.
Buffalo the other favorite is in the same boat. 5.5 this year and minus 25.4 next year.
Dallas has the cap space this year and next, but they have to sign Diggs, Lamb, and Parsons to new deals. Plus with Pollard and Elliott's dead money they have close to 20 million spent on the RB position this year.
Finding a suitor for Cook may take a while.
I would pass on that. Cook is always hurt and doesn’t have Barkley’s upside.
If they made this move at the beginning of the league year, they would have saved an additional 2M. They are also in a comfortable cap situation for 2023 and 2024.
If they made this move at the beginning of the league year, they would have saved an additional 2M. They are also in a comfortable cap situation for 2023 and 2024.
timing injury-related bc of the shoulder surgery maybe so he can pass a physical?
i generally agree with you that on the list of reasons value per $ isn't at the top. i think this is a team choosing to move on from the guy whose health/production level is uncertain going forward, probably knowing they need $ to extend cousins. which i could see being in both sides interest to get done over the next month bc he is only scheduled to make $10m in new cash on his current deal, so they have some leverage to get him to sign now vs waiting until next year. a 2 year extension probably gets him 100m+ of new guaranteed $ before taking another snap.
Quote:
Saquon if Cook signs some place for under $10 mill. He is a very comparable back.
coming off his 3rd shoulder surgery he isnt. that's probably one of the worst injuries for a running back.
Well, we will disagree - everyone bitches about Saquon's injury history and his missed games. It is really not a point to quibble over. They both missed time..
- But -
Cook is, talentwise, very comparable to Barkley.
Sure, he has been dinged, but he produces.
I think Vikings are cutting him a year too soon.
Who are they starting at RB - Alexander Mattison?
This guy is no Cook.
That would be dubious, I still say let Barkley play on the tag. No real reason to do a 3 yr. deal at this point.
Are you dumb?
@rydunleavy
·
3m
Someone explain this League to me.
We have a very good player still in his prime and we are in a win-now window. Let’s dump him because he plays … (gasp) RB! Surely, Alexander Mattison will just do the same things
But then let’s watch other teams draft RBs with 2 top-12 picks
Eh, plenty of times guys like Mattison have stepped up and adequately replaced an "unreplaceable" RB.
It's good news for the Giants. As noted, Cook may be the closest comp to Barkley.
I'd say this move significantly lessens the odds Barkley rolls the dice on the tag. The Giants will make a fair offer, they'll arm wrestle, and a longer term deal will be signed in 35 days.
Honestly, let him play on the tag imv. Don’t overpay
Don’t cave in to SB. He is going into his 6th year and I don’t want to see him sign a 3 or 4 year deal. But that’s just my view.
Cook was due $14 million this year, and the Vikings save over $5 million by cutting him. Even with the ~$8 million dead cap hit this year, having him completely off the books in 2024 gives room for Jefferson and his 5th year option.
Or is they extend Jefferson before 2024, they will have a lot of cap space to improve the defense.
And the problem with the Vikings is not offense, its defense.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
yeah, this is looking worse by the month.
The only thing that *might* turn the situation back in Barkley's favor are a wave of team injuries that change the offensive outlook for the season. If Daniel Jones suffers a Teddy Bridgewater-like knee injury in a non-contact drill, and now we have to face the season with Tyrod Taylor at QB, then Barkley getting a long-term deal starts to look like a real possibility.
Cook was due $14 million this year, and the Vikings save over $5 million by cutting him. Even with the ~$8 million dead cap hit this year, having him completely off the books in 2024 gives room for Jefferson and his 5th year option.
Or is they extend Jefferson before 2024, they will have a lot of cap space to improve the defense.
And the problem with the Vikings is not offense, its defense.
Mattison is also a very underrated back. He’s played admirably when Cook has missed time the last few years.
It's going to be difficult for them to sign him if Cook wants to get paid.
Buffalo the other favorite is in the same boat. 5.5 this year and minus 25.4 next year.
Dallas has the cap space this year and next, but they have to sign Diggs, Lamb, and Parsons to new deals. Plus with Pollard and Elliott's dead money they have close to 20 million spent on the RB position this year.
Finding a suitor for Cook may take a while.
Buffalo would be interesting from a human-interest angle, with the Cook brothers paired up as a RB committee.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
We can’t make claims like this because we don’t know what the guarantees were in the contract. Barkley could of signed a 3 year 60 mill contract (20 mill a year) with 18 mill guaranteed, it’s a bad contract.
You can think it, John, but don't profess it to the world until AFTER the signing.
Quote:
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
We can’t make claims like this because we don’t know what the guarantees were in the contract. Barkley could of signed a 3 year 60 mill contract (20 mill a year) with 18 mill guaranteed, it’s a bad contract.
Exactly.
Schoen could offer Barkley a 2yr $100M contract, with $10M guaranteed as his 2023 salary, and Barkley would have the largest RB AAV in NFL history, but it would still just be the equivalent of the franchise tag.
You can think it, John, but don't profess it to the world until AFTER the signing.
Why not? It didnt hurt him or his franchise. Right now SB is kinda twisting in the wind while Mara was trying to express lyoalty to the player (won't cut him after a year or so if he performs) and Barkley's team has come off as short-sighted and only driven by the max he can get in a contract. If I am John, I am saying to myself "we dodged a bullet" based on RB market this year.
You can think it, John, but don't profess it to the world until AFTER the signing.
Mara does seem like a soft touch. Your primary responsibility Schoen is to keep the Maras in check.
@rydunleavy
·
3m
Someone explain this League to me.
We have a very good player still in his prime and we are in a win-now window. Let’s dump him because he plays … (gasp) RB! Surely, Alexander Mattison will just do the same things
But then let’s watch other teams draft RBs with 2 top-12 picks
This assumes the Falcons (Robinson) and the Lions (Gibbs) did the right thing.
And neither did, especially Lions taking Gibbs at #12.
I have a feeling the Lions DC Aaron Glenn would have much preferred taking Christian Gonzalez.
Quote:
Saquon if Cook signs some place for under $10 mill. He is a very comparable back.
coming off his 3rd shoulder surgery he isnt. that's probably one of the worst injuries for a running back.
That's true, Saquan is never hurt....
Quote:
Saquon if Cook signs some place for under $10 mill. He is a very comparable back.
coming off his 3rd shoulder surgery he isnt. that's probably one of the worst injuries for a running back.
How many games did he miss last year w the shoulder injury??
Quote:
he due $ this year ?
He had a $14m cap hit. His release gains $9m in cap space with a $5m dead cap. They had $9m in cap space before the move.
To elaborate: $11M of that $14M would have been due in 2023. $3M was sunk bonus dollars.
The $5M in 2023 dead cap includes that $3M plus $2M of guaranteed 2023 salary.
In addition to this year's $5M dead cap, Vikings will have another $3M of dead cap charged in 2024.
Quote:
In comment 16129834 section125 said:
Quote:
Saquon if Cook signs some place for under $10 mill. He is a very comparable back.
coming off his 3rd shoulder surgery he isnt. that's probably one of the worst injuries for a running back.
That's true, Saquan is never hurt....
Hasn't Barkley played pretty much every game for the past 2 seasons? Sure he got his shoulder banged up vs Green Bay, but he played through it. I'm not sure I would call him injury prone at this point
Quote:
In comment 16129834 section125 said:
Quote:
Saquon if Cook signs some place for under $10 mill. He is a very comparable back.
coming off his 3rd shoulder surgery he isnt. that's probably one of the worst injuries for a running back.
How many games did he miss last year w the shoulder injury??
How many games has he played since his latest shoulder surgery? can he pass a physical right now?
Quote:
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
We can’t make claims like this because we don’t know what the guarantees were in the contract. Barkley could of signed a 3 year 60 mill contract (20 mill a year) with 18 mill guaranteed, it’s a bad contract.
That is just silly. Possible outcomes for SB works 1 year gets $18MM and back in the pool. Works 2 years $18MM plus whatever year 2 is - since $40MM left lets say year 3 is $25MM - he get 2yrs/$33MM and back in the pool. stays 3 years gets $60MM. Every possible outcome for SB is great and much better than he will ever see.
Quote:
In comment 16129862 Essex said:
Quote:
he turned down 13 million in a multiyear deal. either he is the dumbest guy on the planet and went against his agent's advice, which he does not appear to be in any interview I saw, or he got probably the worst advice ever given to a player by an agent.
think about it this way at 13 million, what was he holding out for an extra couple of million a year and now he will get significantly less. A total sh@tshow on his end.
We can’t make claims like this because we don’t know what the guarantees were in the contract. Barkley could of signed a 3 year 60 mill contract (20 mill a year) with 18 mill guaranteed, it’s a bad contract.
That is just silly. Possible outcomes for SB works 1 year gets $18MM and back in the pool. Works 2 years $18MM plus whatever year 2 is - since $40MM left lets say year 3 is $25MM - he get 2yrs/$33MM and back in the pool. stays 3 years gets $60MM. Every possible outcome for SB is great and much better than he will ever see.
It doesn’t work that way. If they would have given him 18 mill guaranteed he would have been here a minimum of two years @ the full 18 mill. Barkley would have been better off playing both years on the franchise tag earning 22 million of the two years.
So unless the Giants guaranteed Barkley more than 23 million, he wasn’t signing. We don’t know what the Giants offered in guarantees, so we can’t make assumptions.