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Odds where DeAndre Hopkins and Chase Young will land

Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/8/2023 3:19 pm
DeAndre Hopkins Next Team

Tennessee Titans

2/1

Cleveland Browns

3/1

Buffalo Bills

5/1

Kansas City Chiefs

6/1

Dallas Cowboys

7/1

Baltimore Ravens

9/1

New England Patriots

9/1

New York Giants

12/1

Carolina Panthers

16/1

New York Jets

16/1

Detroit Lions

18/1

Chicago Bears

20/1

Los Angeles Chargers

25/1

Philadelphia Eagles

25/1

Green Bay Packers

33/1

Jacksonville Jaguars

33/1

Las Vegas Raiders

33/1

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

33/1

***************************

Chase Young Next Team (If Not Commanders)

Detroit Lions

4/1

Seattle Seahawks

5/1

Chicago Bears

6/1

New York Giants

6/1

Houston Texans

7/1

New Orleans Saints

7/1

Arizona Cardinals

8/1

Pittsburgh Steelers

8/1

San Franciso 49ers

8/1

Dallas Cowboys

9/1

Indianapolis Colts

9/1

Carolina Panthers

10/1

Kansas City Chiefs

12/1

It  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/8/2023 3:20 pm : link
would be pretty funny if Chase Young ended up here after all.
RE: It  
UConn4523 : 6/8/2023 3:25 pm : link
In comment 16130023 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
would be pretty funny if Chase Young ended up here after all.


Would definitely take him on a 1 year prove it deal.
RE: RE: It  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 3:37 pm : link
In comment 16130026 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16130023 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


would be pretty funny if Chase Young ended up here after all.



Would definitely take him on a 1 year prove it deal.


I would too. What is there to lose?

Something tells me there is something else to his story. Heart, work ethic, coachability....you don't just jettison a player with his athletic traits and college production unless he is a real shit.
Who cares about  
Spiciest Memelord : 6/8/2023 3:39 pm : link
that bust Young.
RE: Who cares about  
UConn4523 : 6/8/2023 3:41 pm : link
In comment 16130039 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
that bust Young.


We all should. Not everyone can be an all pro. Would be interesting to see him with Wink.
RE: It  
KDavies : 6/8/2023 3:46 pm : link
In comment 16130023 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
would be pretty funny if Chase Young ended up here after all.


But but but the Giants should have intentionally lost a game, drafted Young, missed out on a franchise left tackle, and been the team to decline his option.
Getting Young would be great  
gersh : 6/8/2023 3:47 pm : link
As would be seeing the 180 here about on his level of play
This is a big if...  
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 3:54 pm : link
but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux.

It seems like we are in "buyer beware" territory here, however, if Washington/Rivera have essentially lost interest...
RE: This is a big if...  
NJBlueTuna : 6/8/2023 4:13 pm : link
In comment 16130052 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux.

It seems like we are in "buyer beware" territory here, however, if Washington/Rivera have essentially lost interest...


Says who?
How hilarious would it be if the Giants got  
eric2425ny : 6/8/2023 4:20 pm : link
Young and he ended up being a late bloomer like Strahan with Thibs on the other side. Commie fans would shit their pants.
Yeah I don’t buy that upside argument  
UConn4523 : 6/8/2023 4:21 pm : link
I think Young can be a solid player but the elite traits he displayed in college never showed up in the pros (maybe glimpses as a rookie) and there’s no reason to believe they will after 3 years of NFL wear and tear.
Isn't Chase Young still on the skins?  
ZogZerg : 6/8/2023 4:22 pm : link
Vegas will put odds on anything.

What about Barkley?
What the odds for his next team?
Never got all the fuss about him.  
81_Great_Dane : 6/8/2023 4:26 pm : link
Didn’t watch a lot of his college games but in the games I saw he didn’t stand out. Nice player but overhyped.
Does anyone know  
mittenedman : 6/8/2023 4:30 pm : link
if you can franchise a player you declined the 5th year option on?

In other words, if Chase Young has a great season, can they franchise him?
RE: Does anyone know  
christian : 6/8/2023 4:38 pm : link
In comment 16130068 mittenedman said:
Quote:
if you can franchise a player you declined the 5th year option on?

In other words, if Chase Young has a great season, can they franchise him?


Did you miss the billion threads about Daniel Jones this off season?
RE: Never got all the fuss about him.  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 4:40 pm : link
In comment 16130066 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
Didn’t watch a lot of his college games but in the games I saw he didn’t stand out. Nice player but overhyped.


He stood out as a player on an Ohio State defense that is almost always top 5 in the country in terms of personnel.

But the guy who said he has more tools than Thibs on this thread....WHAT? Thibs has shown more than Chase has ever shown at the NFL level in one year and Chase was on a line with Montez Sweat, Daron Payne and Jonathan Allen. Thins played OLB on a line with a Dex, a bamged up Leonard Williams and a part time Azeez.

Im not sure what is going on here.
keep  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/8/2023 4:40 pm : link
in mind who our DL coach is and what kind of impact he has had on players.
RE: keep  
LauderdaleMatty : 6/8/2023 4:43 pm : link
In comment 16130072 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
in mind who our DL coach is and what kind of impact he has had on players.



Patching matters. Over and over again we see it and it’s just ignored til there’s shitty coaching.
I think there's at least 25 teams that would love to add  
Metnut : 6/8/2023 4:44 pm : link
Chase Young for a low cost one year deal for the 2023 season. He's well aware of that and is likely going to take his time until one team offers a level of money his agent finds acceptable. As we've seen with Beckham and Frank Clark just recently, it only takes one team.

If something like $5M(?) would get it done, I'd love to bring Young in. Would add a huge upside to our line, and either we could keep him or get a comp pick if it worked out well.
For the daft...  
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 4:48 pm : link
Chase Young was defensive rookie of the year.

Young had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. KT had 4. Young forced 4 fumbles. KT 2.

Further, KT was playing with two very good DLs in LW and DL last year. So, please spare me the "Young was playing with more talent" nonsense...

Look, Young has been hit with injuries and is now a huge question mark going forward. But let's not act like the guy has done nothing when healthy.


RE: keep  
Aloha Alan : 6/8/2023 4:48 pm : link
In comment 16130072 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
in mind who our DL coach is and what kind of impact he has had on players.


How truly would that make a difference on Chase since he was playing for his favorite team growing up? I guess what I mean even though Patterson is a great D-Line Coach (thank you Sexy Dexy for learning from him), wouldn't it have been more of an incentive to make it on your favorite team and play 'light's out" as you were "supposed to have been" by both college career and draft position? I don't understand it with him. No light bulb.
Maybe he's missing  
Spiciest Memelord : 6/8/2023 4:53 pm : link
that special Meyer vitamin regimen at OSU. But then the Bosa brothers are doing fine.
RE: Getting Young would be great  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/8/2023 4:55 pm : link
In comment 16130045 gersh said:
Quote:
As would be seeing the 180 here about on his level of play


Weird post. Do you think people are wrong for saying he hasn't played well overall?
RE: For the daft...  
sb from NYT Forum : 6/8/2023 4:58 pm : link
In comment 16130078 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Chase Young was defensive rookie of the year.

Young had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. KT had 4. Young forced 4 fumbles. KT 2.

Further, KT was playing with two very good DLs in LW and DL last year. So, please spare me the "Young was playing with more talent" nonsense...

Look, Young has been hit with injuries and is now a huge question mark going forward. But let's not act like the guy has done nothing when healthy.



Compare Young's rookie year stats to Ojulari's. Ojulari was better in practically every measure. Yet no one talked about Ojulari being DROY.

Young got it on name recognition. Most of his stats came in the a few games at the end of the season against garbage teams.
RE: This is a big if...  
FStubbs : 6/8/2023 5:00 pm : link
In comment 16130052 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux.

It seems like we are in "buyer beware" territory here, however, if Washington/Rivera have essentially lost interest...


Chase Young 2020 draft prospect vs Thibodeaux 2022 draft prospect? Sure.

Right now? No way.
RE: RE: Getting Young would be great  
Aloha Alan : 6/8/2023 5:00 pm : link
In comment 16130082 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16130045 gersh said:


Quote:


As would be seeing the 180 here about on his level of play






Weird post. Do you think people are wrong for saying he hasn't played well overall?


I'm not sure if he's been hurt, but he was playing for his favorite team growing up and was ecstatic to have been drafted by them. Shouldn't that have been enough to create a better player due to both college performance and draft status?
RE: For the daft...  
UConn4523 : 6/8/2023 5:02 pm : link
In comment 16130078 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Chase Young was defensive rookie of the year.

Young had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. KT had 4. Young forced 4 fumbles. KT 2.

Further, KT was playing with two very good DLs in LW and DL last year. So, please spare me the "Young was playing with more talent" nonsense...

Look, Young has been hit with injuries and is now a huge question mark going forward. But let's not act like the guy has done nothing when healthy.



You are going out of your way to prop up an opposing player who’s been hurt for the better part of two years, when you always bring up injuries to Giants players and why that hurts their value. Young’s upside isn’t what it was when he entered the league, plain and simple.
RE: This is a big if...  
eli4life : 6/8/2023 5:10 pm : link
In comment 16130052 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux.

It seems like we are in "buyer beware" territory here, however, if Washington/Rivera have essentially lost interest...


Um he wasn’t exactly lighting it up before he got hurt and he was on a damned good dline
RE: For the daft...  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 5:24 pm : link
In comment 16130078 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Chase Young was defensive rookie of the year.

Young had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. KT had 4. Young forced 4 fumbles. KT 2.

Further, KT was playing with two very good DLs in LW and DL last year. So, please spare me the "Young was playing with more talent" nonsense...

Look, Young has been hit with injuries and is now a huge question mark going forward. But let's not act like the guy has done nothing when healthy.



You seem to be that person who likes to start an argument with nothing.

KT was injured for much of camp and to start the season. Young was not.

The argument that KT played with justas good a supporting case is simply absurd. Dex was an all pro last yeDE., but williams and KT did not play together for 6 games. So youre comparing a full season with Sweat, Allen and Payne to a full season of Dex and 3/4 of a season with LW (whom many sources said was nursing an injury for most of the year)?

The number s are quite close and KT was playing OLB and dropping into coverage quite often. Chase had his hand in the dirt and reaped the rewards of having two top 5 draft picks playing next to him.

Talk about apples to pomegranates....


Even if I were to agree with you, Chase has been shit since then and his team didnt even pick up his 5th year option which would be a bargain for a talented DE
RE: RE: This is a big if...  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 5:30 pm : link
In comment 16130086 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 16130052 bw in dc said:


Quote:


but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux.

It seems like we are in "buyer beware" territory here, however, if Washington/Rivera have essentially lost interest...



Chase Young 2020 draft prospect vs Thibodeaux 2022 draft prospect? Sure.

Right now? No way.


Even if this were a valid argument to be made, they play different positions and had diff strengths.

CY- prototype 4-3 DE/EDGE who won on athleticsm, strength and speed

KT- mainstay OLB/EDGE with great hands, first step, quickness and the ability to cover the flat.

It's like comparing Earl Thomas and Eric Berry out of college....they had 2 very different skill sets. For our current roster, if both were available in the draft, I take Kayvon 100%.
RE: RE: For the daft...  
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 5:54 pm : link
In comment 16130090 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16130078 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Chase Young was defensive rookie of the year.

Young had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. KT had 4. Young forced 4 fumbles. KT 2.

Further, KT was playing with two very good DLs in LW and DL last year. So, please spare me the "Young was playing with more talent" nonsense...

Look, Young has been hit with injuries and is now a huge question mark going forward. But let's not act like the guy has done nothing when healthy.





You are going out of your way to prop up an opposing player who’s been hurt for the better part of two years, when you always bring up injuries to Giants players and why that hurts their value. Young’s upside isn’t what it was when he entered the league, plain and simple.


I'm not. Read my prior posts. Young is a major risk.

But he's an interesting idea IF HEALTHY...
You  
Toth029 : 6/8/2023 6:01 pm : link
Can't judge a DL or pass rushing LB on purely sacks. It never tells the whole story. Comparing rookie years.

KT: 10 QB knockdowns, 18 pressures, no missed tackles

CY: 6 QB knockdowns, 24 pressures, 3 missed tackles

Kayvon also missed time and played hurt when he returned.
RE: You  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 6:24 pm : link
In comment 16130122 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Can't judge a DL or pass rushing LB on purely sacks. It never tells the whole story. Comparing rookie years.

KT: 10 QB knockdowns, 18 pressures, no missed tackles

CY: 6 QB knockdowns, 24 pressures, 3 missed tackles

Kayvon also missed time and played hurt when he returned.


I guess Chase Young's rookie year was as good or better than Dexter Lawrence's 2022 when he made 2nd team all pro because they both had 7.5 sacks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I did read what you wrote  
UConn4523 : 6/8/2023 6:34 pm : link
you said he has more tools and upside. The former is debatable and the later is simply false given what Young has done to date + his health issues.

And I’d be interested in adding him but his upside is not what it was entering the league, he’s several years and injuries past having that label.
Young  
GiantGrit : 6/8/2023 6:40 pm : link
Disappeared for stretches at Ohio State. Would certainly be worth a one year deal but I've always questioned if he has that elite motor.

Not enough talk on motor when it comes to ER's. Plenty of these guys are athletic but the ones with an elite motor really set themselves apart. Not necessarily taking plays off but more so who can empty the tank over and over again.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/8/2023 6:46 pm : link
Count me among those idiots who was pissed we won that meaningless game vs. WFT & thought we were costing ourselves a generational prospect in Young. Good thing I'm not a GM.
RE: Young  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 6:51 pm : link
In comment 16130138 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Disappeared for stretches at Ohio State. Would certainly be worth a one year deal but I've always questioned if he has that elite motor.

Not enough talk on motor when it comes to ER's. Plenty of these guys are athletic but the ones with an elite motor really set themselves apart. Not necessarily taking plays off but more so who can empty the tank over and over again.


This is a great point and you saw that motor from KT. The end of the Ravens game when he made the headsy play to knock Lamar from the ball. The sack fumble TD against the Skins. There was at least two plays where he was chasing and made tackles downfield.

Chase Young was a physical specimen. Thibodeaux most certainly had far more drive and attitude coming out of college.

Also, comparing them at this point their draft year might be less relevant than comparing them as High School recruits.
RE: ...  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 6:57 pm : link
In comment 16130141 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Count me among those idiots who was pissed we won that meaningless game vs. WFT & thought we were costing ourselves a generational prospect in Young. Good thing I'm not a GM.


Young wasnt a generational prospect and at the time, scoffed at that notion. Julius Peppers, Myles Garret, Mario WilliamsAYBE Courtney Brown and Travon Walker were generational talents at DE coming out of college. Young wasn't there. Hell, both Bosas were better than him and have more of an argument but I wouldnt put them in the category.

Similarly, LT, Von Miller DeMarcus Ware, Khalil Mack and LaVar Arrington were generational talents at OLB. I don't think KT is there either.
Trevor.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/8/2023 6:59 pm : link
I might be wrong-I'm getting up there in age so the mind isn't as sharp as it was once, Haha-but I believe people considered Young a generational talent coming out.
...  
christian : 6/8/2023 7:02 pm : link
Chase Young had a very good rookie year. It's indisputable.

4 batted passes, 4 forced fumbles, 10 tackles for loss, 24 pressures including 7.5 sacks on 770 snaps.

He was PFF's highest rated rookie and a PFR approximate value of 14 (which is higher than Lawrence last you for what it's worth).

It's beyond silly to not acknowledge how good of a rookie year he had.

But that's deep in the past now. As BW said, if Rivera is open to trading him. That's a massive red flag.

To the question of what's the risk? Washington has very little incentive in cutting him. The 5.3M new money he'll earn this year is guaranteed. If they cut him, they'll get a small amount back as an offset when he signs elsewhere.

They would much more likely trade him. So what's the risk: 5.3M dollars and whatever Washington requires in trade compensation.
RE: Trevor.  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 7:08 pm : link
In comment 16130150 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I might be wrong-I'm getting up there in age so the mind isn't as sharp as it was once, Haha-but I believe people considered Young a generational talent coming out.


He was highly touted, but not like the guys I mentioned.All those guys were athletic freaks at close to 300 lbs and they absolutely dominated in college. Chase was definitely a very good prospect and he had both physicality and production. But at 265, he just wasn't those guys No way was he a better prospect than Nick Bosa or JJ Watt. I couldnt believe Watt fell to 11 but when you look at some of the careers of the players picked in front of him, its more understandable.
Trevor.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/8/2023 7:17 pm : link
Gotcha. Still, had one told me one draft night '20, his fifth year option wouldn't be picked up...I would have referred you to a mental ward.
RE: ...  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 7:20 pm : link
In comment 16130152 christian said:
Quote:
Chase Young had a very good rookie year. It's indisputable.

4 batted passes, 4 forced fumbles, 10 tackles for loss, 24 pressures including 7.5 sacks on 770 snaps.

He was PFF's highest rated rookie and a PFR approximate value of 14 (which is higher than Lawrence last you for what it's worth).

It's beyond silly to not acknowledge how good of a rookie year he had.

But that's deep in the past now. As BW said, if Rivera is open to trading him. That's a massive red flag.

To the question of what's the risk? Washington has very little incentive in cutting him. The 5.3M new money he'll earn this year is guaranteed. If they cut him, they'll get a small amount back as an offset when he signs elsewhere.

They would much more likely trade him. So what's the risk: 5.3M dollars and whatever Washington requires in trade compensation.


His rookie year was very good. But again, he was playing next to arguable the best DL teammates in the league. Not by a little. 4 1st round picks including 2 DTs who are still absolute mad men in this league.

How did Chatd Bratzke look when he left Hamilton and Strahan to go play in Indy? How did Kenny Holmes look when he came here and didnt have Jevon Kearse and the rest of that incredible defense behind him?

It makes a difference. Comparing Dex' dominance at his position last year to Young's rookie year numbers is just silly. Dec was FAR more disruptive than Young was for the Redskins. He basically compiled numbers next to 3 other studs.
RE: Trevor.  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 7:22 pm : link
In comment 16130155 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Gotcha. Still, had one told me one draft night '20, his fifth year option wouldn't be picked up...I would have referred you to a mental ward.


Haha, Id agree with that. You give a talented DE like that all the time he needs until he needs contract #2.
RE: RE: For the daft...  
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 7:23 pm : link
In comment 16130084 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:

Compare Young's rookie year stats to Ojulari's. Ojulari was better in practically every measure. Yet no one talked about Ojulari being DROY.

Young got it on name recognition. Most of his stats came in the a few games at the end of the season against garbage teams.


Playing DE in the NFL as a rookie is very hard. And you know how hard it is to get sacks. Further, Young basically had four sacks in the first half of the year and four the second half. So, I'm not buying that he got his production late in the year.

My main point is that Young is an interesting idea if he ever gets back to 100%. I mean, there is a reason why guys like Sy and Jeremiah had him rated so highly as a near "can't-miss- prospect."
RE: I did read what you wrote  
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 7:29 pm : link
In comment 16130135 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you said he has more tools and upside. The former is debatable and the later is simply false given what Young has done to date + his health issues.

And I’d be interested in adding him but his upside is not what it was entering the league, he’s several years and injuries past having that label.


If Young is healthy - again, big IF - I stand by the point that I think he has more tools and upside than a KT. Which is why I would be interested in adding him if the cost to acquire made sense. It's very hard to find players that are as talented as Young to rush the passer.

I think Campbell still has the same upside he had when he entered the league in 2019. Does that bother you, too?


He doesn’t though  
UConn4523 : 6/8/2023 7:34 pm : link
his health history and likely no longer 4.3 speed means he’s not the same player he was entering the league. If both players were redrafted where would they go?

When you play 3 or 4 years and never come close to hitting your ceiling, the likelihood that it’ll not suddenly happen is slim even if healthy. And in Campbell’s case his ceiling isn’t as high as Hyatts.
RE: RE: I did read what you wrote  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 7:45 pm : link
In comment 16130165 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16130135 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


you said he has more tools and upside. The former is debatable and the later is simply false given what Young has done to date + his health issues.

And I’d be interested in adding him but his upside is not what it was entering the league, he’s several years and injuries past having that label.



If Young is healthy - again, big IF - I stand by the point that I think he has more tools and upside than a KT. Which is why I would be interested in adding him if the cost to acquire made sense. It's very hard to find players that are as talented as Young to rush the passer.

I think Campbell still has the same upside he had when he entered the league in 2019. Does that bother you, too?



😆😆😆😆😆 Thats definitely going out on a limb....and completely ridiculous. KT and Campbell are both trending UPWARDS. Meanwhile, Washington sees so much upside in Young that they don't even want to exercise his 5th year option. Which, while a bit pricey, tells you all you all you need to know about what they think about the player they saw at work every single day.

Im starting to feel you are just posing as a fan of the Giants because you seem to hate 9n every single player on the Giants that deserves credit, yet you laud cast-offs or lost causes on other teams for things they werent able to do.

It just might not make sense to take your arguments seriously, and thats fine. But they are utterly ridiculous.. I said I would be in favor of taking a flyer on Young (not that Wash would ever trade him to us), but this idea that 3 years removed from being the 2nd overall pick, to say his upside is the same is just crazy. Barkley has produced far more and been a much bigger disruptor, had the same injury, we gave him his 5th year, offered him an overpay and he is a lowly running back. Whats the difference? Barkley has shown much more game breaking ability at this level than Young has and Young plays an absolutely premium position.

This is just nuts. Ok, Young still has more upside than KT. Got it.
...  
christian : 6/8/2023 7:51 pm : link
I remember reading an article where a sports physician said physiologically tearing the patella and ACL at the same time is unheard of. And that Young was likely playing on an injured patella beforehand.

At the time, it was widely acknowledged it would be more than a calendar year recovery, might keep him completely out for 2022.

Washington can't bet 17.5M on him, that make sense. But his timeframe on recovery always had 2022 in question.

Put it this way: of Young replicates his rookie year, he's making 17.5M in 2024 from somebody.
I had friends who wanted us to tank...  
DefenseWins : 6/8/2023 7:53 pm : link
so we could draft Chase
Chase Young has played 27 games  
dpinzow : 6/8/2023 7:58 pm : link
in 3 seasons. He had 7.5 sacks in 15 games his rookie year, but only 1.5 sacks in 2021 (9 games) and 0 sacks in just 3 games.

Kick the tires maybe, but for a guy like that, injuries most likely took away his elite talent. And for most of that time, he played on a top DL (probably the only elite unit Washington has)
There is a first round pick Phenomenon in the NFL  
Chocco : 6/8/2023 8:00 pm : link
If you don't live up to the pick you are considered a bust, disliked by fans and written off. However these can still be very good players on another team. It actually happens alot. Evan Engram is a good example. He may never live up to his draft slot, but can still be a very valuable player, but almost always on another team, because it rarely works out with the team that drafted them.
So basically the last two seasons  
dpinzow : 6/8/2023 8:01 pm : link
Chase Young has 1.5 sacks in 12 games. He has 5 quarterback hits in those 12 games and 18 solo tackles
RE: So basically the last two seasons  
christian : 6/8/2023 8:03 pm : link
In comment 16130185 dpinzow said:
Quote:
Chase Young has 1.5 sacks in 12 games. He has 5 quarterback hits in those 12 games and 18 solo tackles


You know he suffered a catastrophic knee injury, correct?
RE: ...  
dpinzow : 6/8/2023 8:04 pm : link
In comment 16130175 christian said:
Quote:
I remember reading an article where a sports physician said physiologically tearing the patella and ACL at the same time is unheard of. And that Young was likely playing on an injured patella beforehand.

At the time, it was widely acknowledged it would be more than a calendar year recovery, might keep him completely out for 2022.

Washington can't bet 17.5M on him, that make sense. But his timeframe on recovery always had 2022 in question.

Put it this way: of Young replicates his rookie year, he's making 17.5M in 2024 from somebody.


Unusual knee injuries like what you just described are very difficult to recover from for someone like Chase Young who is almost completely reliant on speed to beat linemen off the edge.

I'd kick the tires if the medical checked out but at best he'd be a rotational piece, not a decisive pickup on a Super Bowl contender
RE: RE: So basically the last two seasons  
dpinzow : 6/8/2023 8:07 pm : link
In comment 16130188 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16130185 dpinzow said:


Quote:


Chase Young has 1.5 sacks in 12 games. He has 5 quarterback hits in those 12 games and 18 solo tackles



You know he suffered a catastrophic knee injury, correct?


I don't think he'll ever be the same player due to that catastrophic knee injury. So much of his talent was dependent on speed off the edge, not bull rushes. I mean if he's at a low price, sure, take the chance. But the chances he'll be the same as he was in his rookie year are very very slim
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/8/2023 8:10 pm : link
Young talk aside, I am bullish on KT's future. I think he showed a lot his rookie season. And he was held like 450385035838508353858385380538 times with no flag.
RE: RE: So basically the last two seasons  
UConn4523 : 6/8/2023 8:13 pm : link
In comment 16130188 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16130185 dpinzow said:


Quote:


Chase Young has 1.5 sacks in 12 games. He has 5 quarterback hits in those 12 games and 18 solo tackles



You know he suffered a catastrophic knee injury, correct?


He was terrible in 2021 before the knee injury. Played the majority of the snaps too, just didn’t standout at all. He was a body on the field and that defense regressed heavily. Was he playing inured? Maybe. Did teams figure him out? Maybe.
RE: ...  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 8:16 pm : link
In comment 16130175 christian said:
Quote:
I remember reading an article where a sports physician said physiologically tearing the patella and ACL at the same time is unheard of. And that Young was likely playing on an injured patella beforehand.

At the time, it was widely acknowledged it would be more than a calendar year recovery, might keep him completely out for 2022.

Washington can't bet 17.5M on him, that make sense. But his timeframe on recovery always had 2022 in question.

Put it this way: of Young replicates his rookie year, he's making 17.5M in 2024 from somebody.


Christian, I havent read that article, but given that injury, he would need multiple seasons of double digit sacks, not the 7.5 from his rookie year to get 17.5/year. Haason Reddick doesnt get that. Randy Gregory didnt get that

Chase Young played one year surrounded by all stars. It sucks he had his injury, but that even furthers my point....he isnt more promising than Kayvon as bw is saying.

Chase Young may very well become a great player, but until he does it again, even having him in the same conversation as KT who by all accounts is a fantastic teammate, is a tremendous teammate, works his ass off and has shown more versatility than Young, Walker or Hutch did after their rookie years is something to mock.

I still would have wanted Sauce, but KT is looking like a very unique player who can ruin game plans.
For comparison  
dpinzow : 6/8/2023 8:24 pm : link
Saquon suffered a less catastrophic knee injury than Young and is about 80% of the player he was two years after the injury...
RE: For comparison  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 8:30 pm : link
In comment 16130206 dpinzow said:
Quote:
Saquon suffered a less catastrophic knee injury than Young and is about 80% of the player he was two years after the injury...


Not sure how it you say that...his year this year was almost identical to his rookie year when he won ORY. That, and his lateral movement is hfar more important as a RB than that of a DE.
RE: There is a first round pick Phenomenon in the NFL  
FStubbs : 6/8/2023 8:51 pm : link
In comment 16130184 Chocco said:
Quote:
If you don't live up to the pick you are considered a bust, disliked by fans and written off. However these can still be very good players on another team. It actually happens alot. Evan Engram is a good example. He may never live up to his draft slot, but can still be a very valuable player, but almost always on another team, because it rarely works out with the team that drafted them.


I don't think anyone actually categorized Engram as an outright bust.

DeAndre Baker and Eli Apple were busts.
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 9:59 pm : link
In comment 16130193 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Young talk aside, I am bullish on KT's future. I think he showed a lot his rookie season. And he was held like 450385035838508353858385380538 times with no flag.


The point isn't - just for clarity - that Young should replace KT. The point is that if the opportunity was right, Young would be worth the risk due to his high ceiling skills. That seems more than reasonable.

Alas, a few posters struggle with that idea because I dare say Young is more gifted than KT. Which makes we wonder if they are confusing KT with LT...? ;)
RE: RE: ...  
section125 : 6/8/2023 10:07 pm : link
In comment 16130247 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16130193 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Young talk aside, I am bullish on KT's future. I think he showed a lot his rookie season. And he was held like 450385035838508353858385380538 times with no flag.



The point isn't - just for clarity - that Young should replace KT. The point is that if the opportunity was right, Young would be worth the risk due to his high ceiling skills. That seems more than reasonable.

Alas, a few posters struggle with that idea because I dare say Young is more gifted than KT. Which makes we wonder if they are confusing KT with LT...? ;)


When has Young shown to be more gifted than KT as a pro. Coming out, I could agree he looked to be perennial All Pro...but never really did much.

And yes, I would take him in a heartbeat...
...  
christian : 6/8/2023 10:32 pm : link
In comment 16130194 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16130188 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 16130185 dpinzow said:


Quote:


Chase Young has 1.5 sacks in 12 games. He has 5 quarterback hits in those 12 games and 18 solo tackles



You know he suffered a catastrophic knee injury, correct?



He was terrible in 2021 before the knee injury. Played the majority of the snaps too, just didn’t standout at all. He was a body on the field and that defense regressed heavily. Was he playing inured? Maybe. Did teams figure him out? Maybe.


Like I posted above, that he suffered an exceedingly rare injury where his ACL and patellar tendon tore at the same time, indicated he was injured before. That's the information I read at the time.

Do you remember any reporting teams were playing him differently and figured him out?
You can never have too many pass rushers  
Paulie Walnuts : 6/8/2023 10:43 pm : link
Kick the tires
Look, the bottomline is that his potential to be great is all but gone  
TrevorC : 6/8/2023 10:49 pm : link
Defending this guy's performance or production at the NFL level is truly a waste of time. He has a bad knee injury, flamed out after a strong rookie season and will likely have to go the 1 year prove ot deal route and absolutely crush to ever sniff his 5th year option of 17 mill.

By the way, can someone please tell me why Saquon only got 10 mill and Chase got 17 for 5th year options seeing as how they were drafted at the same spot? You cant honestly tell me that 2 years equals 7 million more for the option....
RE: For the daft...  
NJBlueTuna : 6/8/2023 10:49 pm : link
In comment 16130078 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Chase Young was defensive rookie of the year.

Young had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. KT had 4. Young forced 4 fumbles. KT 2.

Further, KT was playing with two very good DLs in LW and DL last year. So, please spare me the "Young was playing with more talent" nonsense...

Look, Young has been hit with injuries and is now a huge question mark going forward. But let's not act like the guy has done nothing when healthy.



For the biased:

Thibs missed start of season with a knee injury and key parts of his DL were banged up or out (Ojulari) for stretches. But don’t let facts get in the way of your opinion.
The maroon and yellow  
McNally's_Nuts : 6/9/2023 9:38 am : link
shows up with every post from BW in DC.
What was the previous handle of  
JonC : 6/9/2023 10:17 am : link
TrevorC?
Chase Young  
Spiciest Memelord : 6/9/2023 10:41 am : link
has that scrub accomplished anything more than Darnold or Rosen? He's done.
RE: Look, the bottomline is that his potential to be great is all but gone  
Spiciest Memelord : 6/9/2023 10:42 am : link
In comment 16130276 TrevorC said:
Quote:
Defending this guy's performance or production at the NFL level is truly a waste of time. He has a bad knee injury, flamed out after a strong rookie season and will likely have to go the 1 year prove ot deal route and absolutely crush to ever sniff his 5th year option of 17 mill.

By the way, can someone please tell me why Saquon only got 10 mill and Chase got 17 for 5th year options seeing as how they were drafted at the same spot? You cant honestly tell me that 2 years equals 7 million more for the option....


I assume the salaries of other players at your position are factored in the option.
RE: What was the previous handle of  
djm : 6/9/2023 10:46 am : link
In comment 16130407 JonC said:
Quote:
TrevorC?


haha you read my mind. He sure is busy around here....
RE: The maroon and yellow  
FatMan in Charlotte : 6/9/2023 10:50 am : link
In comment 16130381 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
shows up with every post from BW in DC.


Not just the maroon and yellow, but the continued shots on Giants players that he would prop up if they were in Washington and elsewhere.

Otherwise, I'd have expected some discussion about KT having the highest pressure rate, over 10%, among the top 3 DE's in the draft. Young has never broke that mark, even in a rookie year that is being made out to seem like he was Superman.

Ironic that bw would do that and then crack that KT is being confused with LT. The good thing for the board is that as the Giants continue to win, you'll see less of the Commander fan.
RE: RE: For the daft...  
Big Blue '56 : 6/9/2023 10:56 am : link
In comment 16130277 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 16130078 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Chase Young was defensive rookie of the year.

Young had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. KT had 4. Young forced 4 fumbles. KT 2.

Further, KT was playing with two very good DLs in LW and DL last year. So, please spare me the "Young was playing with more talent" nonsense...

Look, Young has been hit with injuries and is now a huge question mark going forward. But let's not act like the guy has done nothing when healthy.





For the biased:

Thibs missed start of season with a knee injury and key parts of his DL were banged up or out (Ojulari) for stretches. But don’t let facts get in the way of your opinion.


Exactly. He missed the first 4 games(?) and THEN at that point took several more games to have his “preseason” conditioning kick in
RE: RE: For the daft...  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/9/2023 10:57 am : link
In comment 16130101 TrevorC said:
Quote:
You seem to be that person who likes to start an argument with nothing.

Who is THIS guy?
Quote:
Part of me wanted to register about a year ago, but there was some pretty intense rivalries amongst posters that didnt appeal to me.

🙄

Dupes cannot resist the urge to out themselves - it never fails.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2023 10:59 am : link
In comment 16130265 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16130194 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


In comment 16130188 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 16130185 dpinzow said:


Quote:


Chase Young has 1.5 sacks in 12 games. He has 5 quarterback hits in those 12 games and 18 solo tackles



You know he suffered a catastrophic knee injury, correct?



He was terrible in 2021 before the knee injury. Played the majority of the snaps too, just didn’t standout at all. He was a body on the field and that defense regressed heavily. Was he playing inured? Maybe. Did teams figure him out? Maybe.



Like I posted above, that he suffered an exceedingly rare injury where his ACL and patellar tendon tore at the same time, indicated he was injured before. That's the information I read at the time.

Do you remember any reporting teams were playing him differently and figured him out?


It’s plausible for sure but in my uneducated medical opinion, many of these knee tears were already partial tears that finally gave away so I’m not sure how unique this case is, certainly nothing definitive. We see players regress all the time year 2 so I’m not willing to rule that out.

But my main point in all of this isn’t even to shit on Young’s production, rather, it’s to express why calling him a player with more upside/higher ceiling than KT is bogus. That wasn’t your claim, but that’s been my position in this thread.
RE: RE: For the daft...  
bw in dc : 6/9/2023 11:10 am : link
In comment 16130277 NJBlueTuna said:
Quote:
In comment 16130078 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Chase Young was defensive rookie of the year.

Young had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. KT had 4. Young forced 4 fumbles. KT 2.

Further, KT was playing with two very good DLs in LW and DL last year. So, please spare me the "Young was playing with more talent" nonsense...

Look, Young has been hit with injuries and is now a huge question mark going forward. But let's not act like the guy has done nothing when healthy.





For the biased:

Thibs missed start of season with a knee injury and key parts of his DL were banged up or out (Ojulari) for stretches. But don’t let facts get in the way of your opinion.


Re-read the thread. Someone suggested KT had this great rookie year compared to CY's rookie year. Which isn't true if anybody pays any attention to the rest of the league, and why I brought up to dispute the asinine assertion.

And that's always been an Achilles Heel of BBI because most of the board is clueless about the rest of the league.
Not sure why you are going this route  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2023 11:22 am : link
you act like you are the only one that watches or pays attention to things outside of the Giants. 1 poster isn’t BBI and you’ve made some ridiculous claims here as well including this very thread.
I think its moot since WAS would never trade him to NYG  
Jim in Forest Hills : 6/9/2023 11:28 am : link
We already kick their ass all the time. No way they want to see Young sacking their QB.
Good posts Trevor and Grit  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/9/2023 11:31 am : link
Young had a nice first year but sometimes you have to look deeper into stats. He may be damaged goods or WFT doesn't see him as a elite player. I don't see him enough to give a opinion either way.

Wink said Thibs is the "can opener" and that he does a lot of things that don't show up in stats but significantly help others get free. I am expecting a very big year from him and with the hopefully improved run D more opportunities to get the QB.

RE: RE: RE: For the daft...  
TrevorC : 6/9/2023 11:34 am : link
In comment 16130460 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16130277 NJBlueTuna said:


Quote:


In comment 16130078 bw in dc said:


Quote:


Chase Young was defensive rookie of the year.

Young had 7.5 sacks his rookie year. KT had 4. Young forced 4 fumbles. KT 2.

Further, KT was playing with two very good DLs in LW and DL last year. So, please spare me the "Young was playing with more talent" nonsense...

Look, Young has been hit with injuries and is now a huge question mark going forward. But let's not act like the guy has done nothing when healthy.





For the biased:

Thibs missed start of season with a knee injury and key parts of his DL were banged up or out (Ojulari) for stretches. But don’t let facts get in the way of your opinion.



Re-read the thread. Someone suggested KT had this great rookie year compared to CY's rookie year. Which isn't true if anybody pays any attention to the rest of the league, and why I brought up to dispute the asinine assertion.

And that's always been an Achilles Heel of BBI because most of the board is clueless about the rest of the league.


Lol, nobody said that!

#agenda
RE: Not sure why you are going this route  
bw in dc : 6/9/2023 11:35 am : link
In comment 16130470 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you act like you are the only one that watches or pays attention to things outside of the Giants. 1 poster isn’t BBI and you’ve made some ridiculous claims here as well including this very thread.


Let me apologize for my ridiculous assertion that CY, if healthy, is still immensely talented. And could be worth a roll of the dice if the price is right...

Outrageous.
RE: Good posts Trevor and Grit  
TrevorC : 6/9/2023 11:36 am : link
In comment 16130481 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Young had a nice first year but sometimes you have to look deeper into stats. He may be damaged goods or WFT doesn't see him as a elite player. I don't see him enough to give a opinion either way.

Wink said Thibs is the "can opener" and that he does a lot of things that don't show up in stats but significantly help others get free. I am expecting a very big year from him and with the hopefully improved run D more opportunities to get the QB.


Thanks Lines. Somebody else mentioned this, but I had never seen a D player get heald as blatantly nor as often as KT was. Some of it was laughably bad where he was headl9cked and dragged down.
I'll start the narrative  
Spiciest Memelord : 6/9/2023 11:38 am : link
Young was a "flawed" prospect, kind of a Tasmanian Devil, without much refinement and seems like the league knows how to deal with him.

(admittedly like 90% of bbi I wanted us to lose out to ensure we drafted Young)
Lol, you are a trip man  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2023 11:38 am : link
you told me to reread what you said and I did. You should probably do the same. Also, I’d sign up for Young in a heartbeat (reread my posts) but his ceiling isn’t what it was in 2020, probably very far from it. So yes, it’s a fairly outrageous claim especially since it isn’t just health with him.

Ditto for Campbell. Glad we have him but he’s not coming out of college anymore and his potential isn’t nearly as great as it once was. These are all things you’d agree with if it was a player there Giants drafted.
RE: RE: RE: RE: For the daft...  
bw in dc : 6/9/2023 11:40 am : link
In comment 16130482 TrevorC said:
Quote:

Lol, nobody said that!

#agenda


Let's review. Who said this above:

Quote:
...Thibs has shown more than Chase has ever shown at the NFL level in one year...


RE: Good posts Trevor and Grit  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/9/2023 11:44 am : link
In comment 16130481 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Young had a nice first year but sometimes you have to look deeper into stats. He may be damaged goods or WFT doesn't see him as a elite player.

Yes, turning down a 5th year option, especially when it might represent a bargain at an extremely expensive position, is always an indicator that the team believes that player is not elite.

Good thing the Giants have never done anything like that.
That comment is crazy too  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2023 11:44 am : link
but Thibs’ performance against Washington last year is probably better than any single performance from Young in his career. If not for the HAS I think Thibs easily matches Young’s rookie year and has a decent chance of exceeding it.
Why is Washington bailing...  
DefenseWins : 6/9/2023 11:45 am : link
on this first round pick so soon?
Young has shown the talent in the past to take a flier on  
JonC : 6/9/2023 11:49 am : link
The big questions are, as others posted, how is the health and life in the knee and his want-to on the football field. The latter could be a significant reason for Rivera to choose to move him to another team. But, if you watch him at his healthy and focused best, he's a force to be reckoned with.
RE: Why is Washington bailing...  
bw in dc : 6/9/2023 11:52 am : link
In comment 16130499 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
on this first round pick so soon?


I mentioned this above, too. That is the potential big red flag because Washington has the most information. And they are led by a head coach who specializes in defense.

It's very complicated. It could be Washington thinks CY is just done physically. And they don't want to wait any longer. Or it could be they just don't like he's the right fit as a personality and feel it's time to cut bait. There has been talk CY may not be a team first personality who is all in.
RE: Why is Washington bailing...  
AcesUp : 6/9/2023 11:56 am : link
In comment 16130499 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
on this first round pick so soon?


The amount of $$$ they have invested in their DL and Montez Sweat, who has been the superior player, is set to be a UFA next year. They can't resign him and are looking to recoup value. The tag may even be prohibitive with the money invested there.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: For the daft...  
TrevorC : 6/9/2023 12:14 pm : link
In comment 16130493 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16130482 TrevorC said:


Quote:



Lol, nobody said that!

#agenda



Let's review. Who said this above:



Quote:


...Thibs has shown more than Chase has ever shown at the NFL level in one year...




Youre putting words in my mouth. I never referred to Thib's year as great. It started slow, but picked up steam at about the midway point. I said KT showed a lot more in terms of thongs he did for his defense and CY benefitted much more from having the linemates that he did. Sure 7.5 sacks is a nice rookie year. How often did you see him dropping into coverage? He wasn't making hustle plays that KT did. Then the next year, in 12 games, he sucked ass before getting hurt.

YOU on the other hand made this ridiculous claim:

Quote:
This is a big if...
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 3:54 pm : link : reply
but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux


We have already established that KT can actually play a little coverage, and even if "healthy", nobody comes back 100% from the injury that Young had. As far as their college days, KT was forecasted as potentially the number 1 pick for 2 years. Young, didnt get that hype until middway through the '19 season.
RE: RE: Not sure why you are going this route  
dpinzow : 6/9/2023 12:20 pm : link
In comment 16130486 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16130470 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


you act like you are the only one that watches or pays attention to things outside of the Giants. 1 poster isn’t BBI and you’ve made some ridiculous claims here as well including this very thread.



Let me apologize for my ridiculous assertion that CY, if healthy, is still immensely talented. And could be worth a roll of the dice if the price is right...

Outrageous.


And if my aunt had...well you know
RE: RE: Good posts Trevor and Grit  
Lines of Scrimmage : 6/9/2023 12:21 pm : link
In comment 16130496 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16130481 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


Young had a nice first year but sometimes you have to look deeper into stats. He may be damaged goods or WFT doesn't see him as a elite player.


Yes, turning down a 5th year option, especially when it might represent a bargain at an extremely expensive position, is always an indicator that the team believes that player is not elite.

Good thing the Giants have never done anything like that.


Who said always? Perhaps another dumb moment from you.
 
christian : 6/9/2023 12:22 pm : link
There is no kicking the tires in this situation. Young is under contract. Albert Breer observed they have significant money invested in their line, and may not re-sign Young after this year.

But this was his next sentiment:
Quote:
Teams coming out of the spring thinking they need more help may make trade calls on Young (it seems unlikely the Washington brass would move him ahead of a must-win year, but I know they’d be open to listening).

A team would have to compel the Commanders to trade Young, they aren't dumping him.

Young is 1.5 seasons removed from his injury, which was the projected timeline for the recovery. He's on a very reasonable deal that pays him 5.3M in new money this year. He's not getting dumped.

So the question is would the Giants trade presumably a meaningful amount and take on 5.3M for Young?
RE: …  
TrevorC : 6/9/2023 12:30 pm : link
In comment 16130540 christian said:
Quote:
There is no kicking the tires in this situation. Young is under contract. Albert Breer observed they have significant money invested in their line, and may not re-sign Young after this year.

But this was his next sentiment:


Quote:


Teams coming out of the spring thinking they need more help may make trade calls on Young (it seems unlikely the Washington brass would move him ahead of a must-win year, but I know they’d be open to listening).


A team would have to compel the Commanders to trade Young, they aren't dumping him.

Young is 1.5 seasons removed from his injury, which was the projected timeline for the recovery. He's on a very reasonable deal that pays him 5.3M in new money this year. He's not getting dumped.

So the question is would the Giants trade presumably a meaningful amount and take on 5.3M for Young?


Your entire post is spot on. It's exactly right.The only thing that's off is that the Skins would trade him for a reasonable deal within the division. NFW. If, as you said, 1.5 years is what he needed to get fully back and he records 8 sacks and 4 forced fumbles again, that org will be eviscerated by their fans.
RE: RE: Good posts Trevor and Grit  
TrevorC : 6/9/2023 12:37 pm : link
In comment 16130496 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16130481 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


Young had a nice first year but sometimes you have to look deeper into stats. He may be damaged goods or WFT doesn't see him as a elite player.


Yes, turning down a 5th year option, especially when it might represent a bargain at an extremely expensive position, is always an indicator that the team believes that player is not elite.

Good thing the Giants have never done anything like that.


GD, while at first I thought you were being sarcastic and condescending wiith your post, it actually makes total sense given what the Giants did with Jones. Jones didnt have the catastrophic knee injury, but a good rookie year followed by 2 more years of being dealt bad cards with coaching, OL and Saquon being out. The Giants declined the 5th year ootion and demanded he show them why he should be their starting QB. Which obv he did.

Chase had very good production his rookie year, then fell off for most of his 2nd year, had the terrible injury, is due 17 million on the 5th and as someone pointed out, they just handed out big contracts to Payne aand Allen. Sweat is set to be a FA and they cant pay 17 million to CY and make an offer to Sweat. But if he produces his rookie year numbers, maybe that is something to re-visit.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: For the daft...  
bw in dc : 6/9/2023 12:47 pm : link
In comment 16130527 TrevorC said:
Quote:


YOU on the other hand made this ridiculous claim:



Quote:


This is a big if...
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 3:54 pm : link : reply
but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux



We have already established that KT can actually play a little coverage, and even if "healthy", nobody comes back 100% from the injury that Young had. As far as their college days, KT was forecasted as potentially the number 1 pick for 2 years. Young, didnt get that hype until middway through the '19 season.


Do you want to review what Sy thought about Young coming into the NFL? How about Jeremiah?

For example, Sy gave KT an 83 grade. Which translates to a player who should be able to play and contribute right away.

Young? Sy gave him a 91. Which translate to an All-Pro caliber player.

That's a pretty distinct difference.

I'm not on an island here. Many football people viewed Young as a player who had/has elite talent.

And I'm not suggesting, btw, that KT can't be great. I'm still bullish on Young's talent and think he'd be worth the stretch if the right deal could be had...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: For the daft...  
TrevorC : 6/9/2023 12:59 pm : link
In comment 16130562 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16130527 TrevorC said:


Quote:




YOU on the other hand made this ridiculous claim:



Quote:


This is a big if...
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 3:54 pm : link : reply
but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux



We have already established that KT can actually play a little coverage, and even if "healthy", nobody comes back 100% from the injury that Young had. As far as their college days, KT was forecasted as potentially the number 1 pick for 2 years. Young, didnt get that hype until middway through the '19 season.



Do you want to review what Sy thought about Young coming into the NFL? How about Jeremiah?

For example, Sy gave KT an 83 grade. Which translates to a player who should be able to play and contribute right away.

Young? Sy gave him a 91. Which translate to an All-Pro caliber player.

That's a pretty distinct difference.

I'm not on an island here. Many football people viewed Young as a player who had/has elite talent.

And I'm not suggesting, btw, that KT can't be great. I'm still bullish on Young's talent and think he'd be worth the stretch if the right deal could be had...



You are all over the place with your responses. I think I am done responding to you.

Sy's rating system coming out is like when a mechanic does a diagnostic and gives you....an estimate. Sometimes the fix turns out to be significantly bigger than it is. In this case, KT out-performed that rating. There were quite a few who said that "there is something about KT that is....off.'It was speculated that it was his personality and his committment to football. So far, all of that seems overblown.

As you said, if that talent in Chase is there, why wouldn't you pick up the option? Yes, 17 million is a lot, but if he has all this talent still, 17 million for a player that is as good as you say he is at the position he plays is a bargain.

Alkost everybody said they would take a flier on Young, including myself, but its a moot point because he needs to show he is healthy first and the Skins arent letting him go.

Im done going back and forth with you. It seems clear that you are either just trying to start shit on a Giants board or you don't actually like the team and are trolling. But in my brief time here, I have only read you criticize Giants players and never laud one.

Enjoy your day and your weekend.
Young isn’t a 91 anymore, that’s the point lol  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2023 1:01 pm : link
ask Sy what his new rating is. And by the way, one thing Thibs was dinged for IIRC was that he wouldn’t take the NFL seriously enough and cared more about his brand, also question about him quitting on plays. It’s only been 1 year and that’s been proven false so far. Meanwhile, similar questions are now being posed about Young.
...  
christian : 6/9/2023 1:01 pm : link
I think this comes down to 3 simple questions

1) Do you believe Thibs was a better prospect coming out of college than Young?

2) Do you believe anything in their rookie years showed Thibs had more upside than Young?

3) Do you believe his injury precludes Young from picking up from where he was as a rookie?

I think Young was a much better prospect, but only had a marginally better rookie year.

I think this year will show if Young is recovered sufficiently. If he's back to pre-injury health I would expect Young to have a marginally better season than Thibs this year.
I’ll play  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2023 1:05 pm : link
1) yes
2) yes, I think Thibs took a game completely over for us against a division rival and had the best single game of the two.
3) of course. It’s not something I’d guarantee, but the odds are stacked against Young every becoming an all pro and that’s what he was being billed as coming into the league.
 
christian : 6/9/2023 1:11 pm : link
UConn, that's fair. I'm surprised you thought Thibs was a better prospect, you're probably in the minority on that one.

So it seems like you believe Thibs is was, and always was the better player.

Makes sense you don't think Young has more future upside, because you never thought he ever had more.
Things look bright for Thibs in his second year with some  
ThomasG : 6/9/2023 1:11 pm : link
solid talent on the interior D-Line and a Defensive Coordinator who likes to play aggressive. The bloom is off the rose with respect to Chase Young.
RE: ...  
TrevorC : 6/9/2023 1:11 pm : link
In comment 16130571 christian said:
Quote:
I think this comes down to 3 simple questions

1) Do you believe Thibs was a better prospect coming out of college than Young?

2) Do you believe anything in their rookie years showed Thibs had more upside than Young?

3) Do you believe his injury precludes Young from picking up from where he was as a rookie?

I think Young was a much better prospect, but only had a marginally better rookie year.

I think this year will show if Young is recovered sufficiently. If he's back to pre-injury health I would expect Young to have a marginally better season than Thibs this year.


Young as a DE for a 4-3 base was definitely aore valued prospect coming out. But even despite the injury, he played 9 games at that position and amassed a sack and a half and 3 TFL before the injury. KT was beginning to explode after he got his legs under him last year during the season.

RE: …  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2023 1:16 pm : link
In comment 16130573 christian said:
Quote:
UConn, that's fair. I'm surprised you thought Thibs was a better prospect, you're probably in the minority on that one.

So it seems like you believe Thibs is was, and always was the better player.

Makes sense you don't think Young has more future upside, because you never thought he ever had more.


Sorry, 1 was for Young being the better prospect, I misread. I don’t think he has more upside now because of what I’ve seen to date, and also factoring in the injuries and general comments about his drive.
RE: RE: …  
christian : 6/9/2023 1:24 pm : link
In comment 16130579 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16130573 christian said:


Quote:


UConn, that's fair. I'm surprised you thought Thibs was a better prospect, you're probably in the minority on that one.

So it seems like you believe Thibs is was, and always was the better player.

Makes sense you don't think Young has more future upside, because you never thought he ever had more.



Sorry, 1 was for Young being the better prospect, I misread. I don’t think he has more upside now because of what I’ve seen to date, and also factoring in the injuries and general comments about his drive.


Gotcha. For me it's 100% health. If he's back to the guy he was in 2020, I think he's everything he was billed as coming out of college.

I read a snippet this morning from 2020 where Rivera was talking about how much Young was double teamed, and was still producing.

If you drop the 2020 version of Young onto that line now, I don't think he's the guy draws the double team, and I bet he goes bananas.
Let’s see how he handles no longer being the guy  
UConn4523 : 6/9/2023 1:37 pm : link
and the ego hit of not getting the tag picked up coupled with trade rumors. It’s way more than just skill/health for me.
RE: …  
TrevorC : 6/9/2023 1:40 pm : link
In comment 16130573 christian said:
Quote:
UConn, that's fair. I'm surprised you thought Thibs was a better prospect, you're probably in the minority on that one.

So it seems like you believe Thibs is was, and always was the better player.

Makes sense you don't think Young has more future upside, because you never thought he ever had more.


I too always thought Thibs was the better player. But Young was a physical specimen.

Thibodeaux just seemed to grow into the game better as the year went on last year. In my opinion, he completely dispelled the notion of his lack of passion for the game. He was an animal at times last year.
I just rewatched Chase Young highlights from  
TrevorC : 6/9/2023 1:47 pm : link
His rookie year, and that entire WFT D line was obliterating the opposing O lines. Save for a few plays, Young was practically having guys running into him because the pocket/protection was destroyed. There are like 2 sacks he had to actually work for.
Chase Young rookie highlights - ( New Window )
TrevorC...  
bw in dc : 6/9/2023 1:52 pm : link
I've been on this board for 25 years. But thanks for the insightful advice.

RE: TrevorC...  
Big Blue '56 : 6/9/2023 1:56 pm : link
In comment 16130615 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I've been on this board for 25 years. But thanks for the insightful advice.


The last cogent post you made was about Larry Centers..:)
Offer WC  
Joe Beckwith : 6/9/2023 2:16 pm : link
A ‘26 7th, and settle at no more than a 5th, or they he can play for a high cap space team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: For the daft...  
Spiciest Memelord : 6/9/2023 2:55 pm : link
In comment 16130569 TrevorC said:
Quote:
In comment 16130562 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 16130527 TrevorC said:


Quote:




YOU on the other hand made this ridiculous claim:



Quote:


This is a big if...
bw in dc : 6/8/2023 3:54 pm : link : reply
but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux



We have already established that KT can actually play a little coverage, and even if "healthy", nobody comes back 100% from the injury that Young had. As far as their college days, KT was forecasted as potentially the number 1 pick for 2 years. Young, didnt get that hype until middway through the '19 season.



Do you want to review what Sy thought about Young coming into the NFL? How about Jeremiah?

For example, Sy gave KT an 83 grade. Which translates to a player who should be able to play and contribute right away.

Young? Sy gave him a 91. Which translate to an All-Pro caliber player.

That's a pretty distinct difference.

I'm not on an island here. Many football people viewed Young as a player who had/has elite talent.

And I'm not suggesting, btw, that KT can't be great. I'm still bullish on Young's talent and think he'd be worth the stretch if the right deal could be had...




You are all over the place with your responses. I think I am done responding to you.

Sy's rating system coming out is like when a mechanic does a diagnostic and gives you....an estimate. Sometimes the fix turns out to be significantly bigger than it is. In this case, KT out-performed that rating. There were quite a few who said that "there is something about KT that is....off.'It was speculated that it was his personality and his committment to football. So far, all of that seems overblown.

As you said, if that talent in Chase is there, why wouldn't you pick up the option? Yes, 17 million is a lot, but if he has all this talent still, 17 million for a player that is as good as you say he is at the position he plays is a bargain.

Alkost everybody said they would take a flier on Young, including myself, but its a moot point because he needs to show he is healthy first and the Skins arent letting him go.

Im done going back and forth with you. It seems clear that you are either just trying to start shit on a Giants board or you don't actually like the team and are trolling. But in my brief time here, I have only read you criticize Giants players and never laud one.

Enjoy your day and your weekend.


I wouldn't say KT outperformed his rating.
perhaps we could just pose the simple question  
djm : 6/9/2023 3:27 pm : link
find me one GM that trades Young for KT even if salaries are equal. Let's say both players have a clean cap hit slate.

Not one GM is trading Young for KT right now. Young came into the NFL a fantastic prospect. No one can argue that. We can split hairs about whether he was elite or great but he was a big time prospect.

Now he's damaged goods. And he's never been a dominant force no matter how you view his rookie season. I'd kick the tires, but so what.
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