Odds where DeAndre Hopkins and Chase Young will land

In comment 16130562 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16130527 TrevorC said: Quote: YOU on the other hand made this ridiculous claim: Quote: This is a big if... bw in dc : 6/8/2023 3:54 pm : link : reply but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux We have already established that KT can actually play a little coverage, and even if "healthy", nobody comes back 100% from the injury that Young had. As far as their college days, KT was forecasted as potentially the number 1 pick for 2 years. Young, didnt get that hype until middway through the '19 season. Do you want to review what Sy thought about Young coming into the NFL? How about Jeremiah? For example, Sy gave KT an 83 grade. Which translates to a player who should be able to play and contribute right away. Young? Sy gave him a 91. Which translate to an All-Pro caliber player. That's a pretty distinct difference. I'm not on an island here. Many football people viewed Young as a player who had/has elite talent. And I'm not suggesting, btw, that KT can't be great. I'm still bullish on Young's talent and think he'd be worth the stretch if the right deal could be had...

You are all over the place with your responses. I think I am done responding to you.

Sy's rating system coming out is like when a mechanic does a diagnostic and gives you....an estimate. Sometimes the fix turns out to be significantly bigger than it is. In this case, KT out-performed that rating. There were quite a few who said that "there is something about KT that is....off.'It was speculated that it was his personality and his committment to football. So far, all of that seems overblown.

As you said, if that talent in Chase is there, why wouldn't you pick up the option? Yes, 17 million is a lot, but if he has all this talent still, 17 million for a player that is as good as you say he is at the position he plays is a bargain.

Alkost everybody said they would take a flier on Young, including myself, but its a moot point because he needs to show he is healthy first and the Skins arent letting him go.

Im done going back and forth with you. It seems clear that you are either just trying to start shit on a Giants board or you don't actually like the team and are trolling. But in my brief time here, I have only read you criticize Giants players and never laud one.

Enjoy your day and your weekend.

ask Sy what his new rating is. And by the way, one thing Thibs was dinged for IIRC was that he wouldn’t take the NFL seriously enough and cared more about his brand, also question about him quitting on plays. It’s only been 1 year and that’s been proven false so far. Meanwhile, similar questions are now being posed about Young.

I think this comes down to 3 simple questions

1) Do you believe Thibs was a better prospect coming out of college than Young?

2) Do you believe anything in their rookie years showed Thibs had more upside than Young?

3) Do you believe his injury precludes Young from picking up from where he was as a rookie?

I think Young was a much better prospect, but only had a marginally better rookie year.

I think this year will show if Young is recovered sufficiently. If he's back to pre-injury health I would expect Young to have a marginally better season than Thibs this year.

1) yes
2) yes, I think Thibs took a game completely over for us against a division rival and had the best single game of the two.
3) of course. It’s not something I’d guarantee, but the odds are stacked against Young every becoming an all pro and that’s what he was being billed as coming into the league.

UConn, that's fair. I'm surprised you thought Thibs was a better prospect, you're probably in the minority on that one.

So it seems like you believe Thibs is was, and always was the better player.

Makes sense you don't think Young has more future upside, because you never thought he ever had more.

solid talent on the interior D-Line and a Defensive Coordinator who likes to play aggressive. The bloom is off the rose with respect to Chase Young.

In comment 16130571 christian said:

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I think this comes down to 3 simple questions 1) Do you believe Thibs was a better prospect coming out of college than Young? 2) Do you believe anything in their rookie years showed Thibs had more upside than Young? 3) Do you believe his injury precludes Young from picking up from where he was as a rookie? I think Young was a much better prospect, but only had a marginally better rookie year. I think this year will show if Young is recovered sufficiently. If he's back to pre-injury health I would expect Young to have a marginally better season than Thibs this year.

Young as a DE for a 4-3 base was definitely aore valued prospect coming out. But even despite the injury, he played 9 games at that position and amassed a sack and a half and 3 TFL before the injury. KT was beginning to explode after he got his legs under him last year during the season.

In comment 16130573 christian said:

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UConn, that's fair. I'm surprised you thought Thibs was a better prospect, you're probably in the minority on that one. So it seems like you believe Thibs is was, and always was the better player. Makes sense you don't think Young has more future upside, because you never thought he ever had more.

Sorry, 1 was for Young being the better prospect, I misread. I don’t think he has more upside now because of what I’ve seen to date, and also factoring in the injuries and general comments about his drive.

In comment 16130579 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 16130573 christian said: Quote: UConn, that's fair. I'm surprised you thought Thibs was a better prospect, you're probably in the minority on that one. So it seems like you believe Thibs is was, and always was the better player. Makes sense you don't think Young has more future upside, because you never thought he ever had more. Sorry, 1 was for Young being the better prospect, I misread. I don’t think he has more upside now because of what I’ve seen to date, and also factoring in the injuries and general comments about his drive.

Gotcha. For me it's 100% health. If he's back to the guy he was in 2020, I think he's everything he was billed as coming out of college.

I read a snippet this morning from 2020 where Rivera was talking about how much Young was double teamed, and was still producing.

If you drop the 2020 version of Young onto that line now, I don't think he's the guy draws the double team, and I bet he goes bananas.

and the ego hit of not getting the tag picked up coupled with trade rumors. It’s way more than just skill/health for me.

In comment 16130573 christian said:

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UConn, that's fair. I'm surprised you thought Thibs was a better prospect, you're probably in the minority on that one. So it seems like you believe Thibs is was, and always was the better player. Makes sense you don't think Young has more future upside, because you never thought he ever had more.

I too always thought Thibs was the better player. But Young was a physical specimen.

Thibodeaux just seemed to grow into the game better as the year went on last year. In my opinion, he completely dispelled the notion of his lack of passion for the game. He was an animal at times last year.

His rookie year, and that entire WFT D line was obliterating the opposing O lines. Save for a few plays, Young was practically having guys running into him because the pocket/protection was destroyed. There are like 2 sacks he had to actually work for.
Chase Young rookie highlights - ( New Window )

I've been on this board for 25 years. But thanks for the insightful advice.

In comment 16130615 bw in dc said:

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I've been on this board for 25 years. But thanks for the insightful advice.

The last cogent post you made was about Larry Centers..:)

A ‘26 7th, and settle at no more than a 5th, or they he can play for a high cap space team.

In comment 16130569 TrevorC said:

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In comment 16130562 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 16130527 TrevorC said: Quote: YOU on the other hand made this ridiculous claim: Quote: This is a big if... bw in dc : 6/8/2023 3:54 pm : link : reply but if Young is healthy, he's got more tools and upside than Thibodeaux We have already established that KT can actually play a little coverage, and even if "healthy", nobody comes back 100% from the injury that Young had. As far as their college days, KT was forecasted as potentially the number 1 pick for 2 years. Young, didnt get that hype until middway through the '19 season. Do you want to review what Sy thought about Young coming into the NFL? How about Jeremiah? For example, Sy gave KT an 83 grade. Which translates to a player who should be able to play and contribute right away. Young? Sy gave him a 91. Which translate to an All-Pro caliber player. That's a pretty distinct difference. I'm not on an island here. Many football people viewed Young as a player who had/has elite talent. And I'm not suggesting, btw, that KT can't be great. I'm still bullish on Young's talent and think he'd be worth the stretch if the right deal could be had... You are all over the place with your responses. I think I am done responding to you. Sy's rating system coming out is like when a mechanic does a diagnostic and gives you....an estimate. Sometimes the fix turns out to be significantly bigger than it is. In this case, KT out-performed that rating. There were quite a few who said that "there is something about KT that is....off.'It was speculated that it was his personality and his committment to football. So far, all of that seems overblown. As you said, if that talent in Chase is there, why wouldn't you pick up the option? Yes, 17 million is a lot, but if he has all this talent still, 17 million for a player that is as good as you say he is at the position he plays is a bargain. Alkost everybody said they would take a flier on Young, including myself, but its a moot point because he needs to show he is healthy first and the Skins arent letting him go. Im done going back and forth with you. It seems clear that you are either just trying to start shit on a Giants board or you don't actually like the team and are trolling. But in my brief time here, I have only read you criticize Giants players and never laud one. Enjoy your day and your weekend.

I wouldn't say KT outperformed his rating.

find me one GM that trades Young for KT even if salaries are equal. Let's say both players have a clean cap hit slate.

Not one GM is trading Young for KT right now. Young came into the NFL a fantastic prospect. No one can argue that. We can split hairs about whether he was elite or great but he was a big time prospect.

Now he's damaged goods. And he's never been a dominant force no matter how you view his rookie season. I'd kick the tires, but so what.