Starting Lineups for both clubs today
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Probable Starting Pitcher Matchups today at the Braves & tomorrow at the Pirates
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#LFGM!
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Notes:
-The Mets are now two games below .500 now, with a record of 30-32 and are in 3rd place in the NL East sitting outside of the playoff picture by 2.5 games.
-Alonso's OK after yesterday's wrist incident, but Buck's keeping him out of the lineup as a precaution.
-All three of the three kids are in the lineup today, most likely due to Alonso's injury yesterday (I think this is only the 4th or 5th time they've been in the lineup together since they've all been brought up to the Show).
-Vogelbach is sitting; Alvarez is DHing in his place and is batting 2nd today.
-Vientos is playing 1B in Alonso's place today and is hitting 9th.
-Baty's hitting 5th and is at 3B today while Pham is hitting 7th and is in LF.
-Narvaez is catching today and is batting 8th on the order.
-It'd be nice if the Mets could salvage a game today against the Barfs and not get swept.
-The Mets' 4-man bench today is Canha, Vogelbach, Escobar, & Alonso.
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Current MLB Standings
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MLB - Week 11 of 27 - National League Playoff Picture 
And why would he? There are better teams on the west coast (where he wants to be) that can pay him a ransom as well. Keeping Eppler for the sole reason to sign a player we won’t get is Wilpon-level ineptitude.
Proud that they scored 10 runs and lost like that?! What a bad look!
Unfortunately he won’t
For the first time in Mets franchise history they’ve lost three straight games in which they had at least a 3-run lead.
as crappy as buck has been (very crappy) eppler deserves all blame for a game like this, and this series, because it was all on the BP. he had 2 or 3 slots in the BP he could have spent $ on even before Diaz injury where he brought in about 10 guys to compete and they have all been garbage. the OD roster had curtiss, santana, nogosek, and hunter on it. brigham hasn't been any better (or any of the other guys they've called up).
just a misevaluated roster across the board from last year's trade deadline on.
hasn't found a competent DH in 2 years or given vientos shot.
gave up holderman for the robust pillsbury dont swing boy.
let their most reliable starter (bassitt) walk despite a pretty reasonable contract.
let lugo walk without a phone call.
and the manager has been in denial of teams whose confidence has been shattered for whatever reason going back 4 months of baseball in a row to canhas homer vs philly.
season isnt over but if they dont find a way to change whatever is wrong within the organization it will be soon. there is a fracture somewhere in the clubhouse that is coming out on the field, and buck is one of the highest paid managers in the league because he's supposed to be in command of that type of thing. i dont know what the move is to change things but if there are veterans pissed their playing got cut, cutting them would be a good place to start.
This is the most frustrating Mets team I have had the displeasure of watching in quite some time. Maybe ever.
Get hot in September and make the playoffs.
Tonight was miserable for y’all but won’t matter come October.
Tell me you know nothing about Buck without saying you know nothing about Buck.
And he actually won 101 games last season - choked away the division - and got embarrassed out of the WC round.
But yeah - the 101 wins is cool too. Buck sucks.
Eppler and Buck are both terrible, both should go.
Quote:
Mike Mayer @mikemayer22
For the first time in Mets franchise history they’ve lost three straight games in which they had at least a 3-run lead.
as crappy as buck has been (very crappy) eppler deserves all blame for a game like this, and this series, because it was all on the BP. he had 2 or 3 slots in the BP he could have spent $ on even before Diaz injury where he brought in about 10 guys to compete and they have all been garbage. the OD roster had curtiss, santana, nogosek, and hunter on it. brigham hasn't been any better (or any of the other guys they've called up).
just a misevaluated roster across the board from last year's trade deadline on.
hasn't found a competent DH in 2 years or given vientos shot.
gave up holderman for the robust pillsbury dont swing boy.
let their most reliable starter (bassitt) walk despite a pretty reasonable contract.
let lugo walk without a phone call.
and the manager has been in denial of teams whose confidence has been shattered for whatever reason going back 4 months of baseball in a row to canhas homer vs philly.
season isnt over but if they dont find a way to change whatever is wrong within the organization it will be soon. there is a fracture somewhere in the clubhouse that is coming out on the field, and buck is one of the highest paid managers in the league because he's supposed to be in command of that type of thing. i dont know what the move is to change things but if there are veterans pissed their playing got cut, cutting them would be a good place to start.
Well said, Eric.
The dearth of legitimate arms in the BP is so ridiculously glaring. The Lugo thing, as you hit on, is as curious as it gets.
While we can keep repeating the old platitude, “it’s still early” I prefer the old Yogiism, it got late early.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
16m
There’s real concern Pete Alonso hits the Injured List. He may miss a few weeks.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
16m
There’s real concern Pete Alonso hits the Injured List. He may miss a few weeks.
I thought he was ok? WTF?
The writing was on the wall when Alonso flew back to NY for additional tests in the middle of the road trip. A 10-15 day absence would be good news at this point. 6-8 weeks would be a disaster.
One worrisome thing about these types of injuries to hand/wrist is that even when the player is back and "healthy" the power often doesn't quite come back for a while after.
I’m not a Buck fan, but in this case, what was he supposed to do? Not only was this an awful loss, but Verlander burned the bullpen going into Pitt. Does anyone think Megill is going to give them 6 innings tonight?
Eppler is responsible for this mess. They can fire Buck, I’ve always thought he was the most overrated manager in MLB, but personnel is the main issue. His deadline trades last year smacked of desperation then, and are looking worse every game.
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
16m
There’s real concern Pete Alonso hits the Injured List. He may miss a few weeks.
it's certainly not good to lose alonso, but they scored 10 without him last night for the first time in forever against strider. they have enough talent to score runs without him- they need guys who havent been pulling their weight to start doing so. which is basically every vet on the roster other than alonso.
another moment where "wouldnt it have been great to get vientos acclimated 2 weeks earlier" when they had the luxury of alonso in the lineup.
after all their efforts to "protect the kids" the season is still going to come down to whether or not any of them can join alvarez and step up.
there is never a perfect or easy way to break in rookies, they should have just ripped the XXXXL bandaid off weeks ago since he has sucked any way.
@MBrownstein89
Last night was the 2nd time this season where the #Mets scored at least 10 runs and lost the game (the other was on May 28 at Colorado).
It’s the first time the club has recorded multiple losses when they score 10+ runs in a game since 2004.
@Metsmerized
Again, how is that Buck's fault?
From my understanding, the Atlantic League (where Murphy/Ducks are in) is roughly comparable to something between AA/AAA.
Part of Buck's job is to work to have the players perform at their best. Have them ready to play at their very best every day. It's far beyond writing a lineup or picking which RP to put in. He runs the baseball operation on field.
Guys like Lindor, Marte, Mcneil, Vogelbach, most of the pen, many in the rotation, all regressing this year is something he at least deserves some level (whether small or large is up for debate) of blame for. His job to have the players perform.
Also, the Mets lost a number of games/series versus bad teams in September last year which put them in position to have that series in Atlanta even mean something to begin with. The team wasn't focused the last month of September and the manager has to take some blame for that.
I don't think Buck's an awful manager, but these MLB managers are a dime a dozen and few really make any real difference and even few make a real difference for more than a year or so. When you have a team with a gigantic payroll that's playing like shit and players are underperforming, changing managers is typical go-to move. It's unlikely to make things worse, but sometimes (like Philly last year for example) it can turns thing around.
forgotten in a crazy 10-10 extra innings game is the 1 extra run in the first inning because marte let a ball go under his glove in the OF. and a longer, worse inning than it needed to be on a day when verlander needed all the help he could get.
narvaez was up with the bases loaded and 1 out and he struck out in the top of the 9th with a chance to give robertson and insurance run. a situation vientos delivered in just a few days ago before getting benched.
those are 2 easy runs blown by guys making a combined 30m+, hand selected by eppler, and written into the lineup over alternatives by buck.
the mets are beating themselves right now as much as anyone is beating them, and whatever buttons buck is pressing in private aren't working. the ones he's pressing in public are downright delusional. never thought buck would make such a loser quote:
@timbhealey
Buck Showalter: "It was almost a great win for us. Just like the first two."
His decision not to walk Vlad Jr on Saturday with a runner on 2nd and 2 out in the 9th was egregiously bad. There was simply no excuse for it, other than Buck thinking he’s the smartest guy in the room. He is quick to blame players (we have to play better), while at the same time, exonerating himself (it’s not as simple as chang8ng line ups and pitching rotations).
He clearly knows the game, but I think his arrogance wears on teams. I just don’t think it’s an accident that 2 teams he managed won WS titles the year after he was fired.
@AnthonyDiComo
With Pete Alonso likely heading to the IL later today, Luis Guillorme is traveling to Pittsburgh to meet the Mets. Appears that will be the roster move.
if vogelbach cant drive in more runs in whatever at bats he gets over the next few weeks that pete is out, he deserves to get DFA'd when pete gets back.
i know RBIs are an out of trend stat because batters cant control who is on base in front of them, which is obviously true, but it's also obviously true that being able to get hits at important times is the most important thing in baseball.
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I still think Buck is a good manager. He was very good last season in my opinion. Just because they have players who can't hit in the clutch and a horrific bullpen and no starting pitching....well that really isn't Buck's fault. He hasn't been good this year but he isn't working with much.
His decision not to walk Vlad Jr on Saturday with a runner on 2nd and 2 out in the 9th was egregiously bad. There was simply no excuse for it, other than Buck thinking he’s the smartest guy in the room. He is quick to blame players (we have to play better), while at the same time, exonerating himself (it’s not as simple as chang8ng line ups and pitching rotations).
He clearly knows the game, but I think his arrogance wears on teams. I just don’t think it’s an accident that 2 teams he managed won WS titles the year after he was fired.
also left carrasco in too long even though they had an off day before the braves series started.
gave vogelbach 2 starts where he again did nothing.
in close games bad decisions compound bad players.
I never wanted either here, both have really huge warts and neither has anything grand on their resume.
Cohen himself as owner right now, has a "losing" record as owner, not just on the field, but off of it too with his decisions last few years, including the bumbling hire of Porter as first GM, then not being able to find a Pres of Baseball Ops two straight offseasons.
I disliked the Wilpons as much as anybody towards the end, but let's not keep throwing roses at Cohen when he has yet to show an ability to implement a full resource plan, and execute sound strategies in the front office and overall organizationally.
People can blame the manager all they want - it's always someone else's fault besides the players.
I never wanted either here, both have really huge warts and neither has anything grand on their resume.
Cohen himself as owner right now, has a "losing" record as owner, not just on the field, but off of it too with his decisions last few years, including the bumbling hire of Porter as first GM, then not being able to find a Pres of Baseball Ops two straight offseasons.
I disliked the Wilpons as much as anybody towards the end, but let's not keep throwing roses at Cohen when he has yet to show an ability to implement a full resource plan, and execute sound strategies in the front office and overall organizationally.
He's an owner, his greatest contribution is going to be allowing the baseball people plenty of resources to put together a championship team. He's done that. The other equation is hiring the right GM or POBO. I think Stearns is coming, but he hasn't the opportunity to hire him yet.
If it were me, one of.the bigger free agent targets would've been Rodon, and he is yet to play for the Yankees.
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guy they can't afford to lose.....
Jon Heyman
@JonHeyman
·
16m
There’s real concern Pete Alonso hits the Injured List. He may miss a few weeks.
I thought he was ok? WTF?
I guess the MRI revealed something the X-rays did not.
People can blame the manager all they want - it's always someone else's fault besides the players.
So Buck gets credit for the 100 wins, players get the blame for the losses. You’re sound just like Buck!
2021- .475
2022- .609
2023- .484 (believe this is the lowpoint of the year, obviously they've been over .500 most of the year)
right now the management group he picked is looking as bad as they looked good at their best moment last year, but on the whole it is far beyond the lows or norms of the wilponzi era.
buck is one of the highest paid managers in baseball for a reason. before going for him they went for one of the other highest paid managers in baseball (who is also having a massively disappointing year right now). cohen has done what he can to try hire the best people possible and put the best team possible on the field. there is obviously still work to do and it seems enormously likely to me that David Stearns is going to be a very wealthy man soon.
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is a horrible management team.
I never wanted either here, both have really huge warts and neither has anything grand on their resume.
Cohen himself as owner right now, has a "losing" record as owner, not just on the field, but off of it too with his decisions last few years, including the bumbling hire of Porter as first GM, then not being able to find a Pres of Baseball Ops two straight offseasons.
I disliked the Wilpons as much as anybody towards the end, but let's not keep throwing roses at Cohen when he has yet to show an ability to implement a full resource plan, and execute sound strategies in the front office and overall organizationally.
He's an owner, his greatest contribution is going to be allowing the baseball people plenty of resources to put together a championship team. He's done that. The other equation is hiring the right GM or POBO. I think Stearns is coming, but he hasn't the opportunity to hire him yet.
If it were me, one of.the bigger free agent targets would've been Rodon, and he is yet to play for the Yankees.
Sorry - you are really simplistic and wrong about his greatest contribution. We can always get a new owner with "enough" money. He has to make sure he's choosing the right people who are then using his resources and hold them accountable. This was a problem under the Wilpons too.
Money isn't the end all be all if you can't inject it into a functional high-output model/structure that is staffed with people with good ideas, strategies and means testing. Organizational strategy and competency is so so critical. We do not have competent and top people in the organization making decisions right now. That's very much on Cohen and a worry, that despite his money, people don't want to actually come here.
If the Mets finish at or below 500, there is zero tolerance or acceptable excuse to bring Buck, Eppler, and several coaches back next year.
we know stearns contract runs out this offseason.
we also know they were close to getting melvin before buck, which is great because that means they were virtually guaranteed to have one of the most disappointing teams in baseball this year.
what we need to hope cohen gets right now is an evaluation among those who are actually in the organization of who is a keeper and who isn't. it could be both eppler/buck, it could be one or the other, it could be neither. but he has had 18+ months with both of them. he should have most of the informtation he needs in terms of whether or not they are positively contributing to the organization or just filling seats.
publicly they have both projected denial of reality. cohen is behind the scenes and in charge of getting to the bottom of whatever the problem is. whatever he does he has to get all oars in the same direction.
Nobody else is even close.
Eppler deserves criticism, but also, Robertson was supposed to be the 8th inning man this year. Diaz was a big blow, it was unforeseeable and if we had him last night, for just that game at minimum, it's likely the Mets win. Perhaps they win at least 2 of 3 in this series alone with him.
That's not to forgive Eppler or deflect any blame of him or Buck, both of whom are well-deserved g of criticism. The lack of hiring a POBO to me is a tell that they are just running out the clock until they can hire Stearns.
I don't see how Cohen gets any criticism. He has done what Mets' fans have been hoping for for years, having a payroll that mirrors a big market team in New York City, and he's gone even beyond expectations in that regard
Nobody else is even close.
Eppler deserves criticism, but also, Robertson was supposed to be the 8th inning man this year. Diaz was a big blow, it was unforeseeable and if we had him last night, for just that game at minimum, it's likely the Mets win. Perhaps they win at least 2 of 3 in this series alone with him.
That's not to forgive Eppler or deflect any blame of him or Buck, both of whom are well-deserved g of criticism. The lack of hiring a POBO to me is a tell that they are just running out the clock until they can hire Stearns.
I don't see how Cohen gets any criticism. He has done what Mets' fans have been hoping for for years, having a payroll that mirrors a big market team in New York City, and he's gone even beyond expectations in that regard
He is an owner. He deserves criticism. He is making decisions. Just spending money is not the end all be all if you aren't investing it wisely.
I'll given Cohen more time, but let's not act like his decisions have been good so far or that folks trust him. They haven't and he's been rebuffed by some of the best minds around the league (some repeatedly). He's been flailing on his efforts to build a front office close to 3 years now and settled on Eppler who was a total nothingburger GM with Anaheim, after they (him and Sandy) failed to do background sufficiently on Porter.
lol
@NYPost_Mets
Tomas Nido cleared waivers and will accept an outright to Syracuse if he is not traded.
best 3rd + 4th catchers in mlb?
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That has spent $350 million on player payroll, and he was willing to go higher.
Nobody else is even close.
Eppler deserves criticism, but also, Robertson was supposed to be the 8th inning man this year. Diaz was a big blow, it was unforeseeable and if we had him last night, for just that game at minimum, it's likely the Mets win. Perhaps they win at least 2 of 3 in this series alone with him.
That's not to forgive Eppler or deflect any blame of him or Buck, both of whom are well-deserved g of criticism. The lack of hiring a POBO to me is a tell that they are just running out the clock until they can hire Stearns.
I don't see how Cohen gets any criticism. He has done what Mets' fans have been hoping for for years, having a payroll that mirrors a big market team in New York City, and he's gone even beyond expectations in that regard
He is an owner. He deserves criticism. He is making decisions. Just spending money is not the end all be all if you aren't investing it wisely.
I'll given Cohen more time, but let's not act like his decisions have been good so far or that folks trust him. They haven't and he's been rebuffed by some of the best minds around the league (some repeatedly). He's been flailing on his efforts to build a front office close to 3 years now and settled on Eppler who was a total nothingburger GM with Anaheim, after they (him and Sandy) failed to do background sufficiently on Porter.
Not sure what you're looking for, I said Eppler deserves criticism. Buck, too, you know, the people making the BASEBALL decisions.
The three biggest mistakes have been building the bullpen, the handling of the prospects, and the trades from last year, notably the Ruf and Vogelbach trades.
Several people wanted them to go after Chafin. Cohen gave these people the most flexibility of any owner in baseball. Perhaps ever, even if you consider inflation. A halfway decent baseball man should make that work. And perhaps it would've worked had the players acquired played to the back of their baseball cards and if they gave the kids regular play right away, like Cincinnati has done with their prospects to great success.
We've talked about McLain and Elly De La Cruz, but even look at Spencer Steer and the contributions he has made this year bc he plays almost every day.
I'm good with saying he shouldn't have hired Eppler or Buck. But if you say that now, first did you say that when he was hired? And two, who should he have hired instead? Was there another candidate that fit the bill that would've obviously been better?
But I'll keep going back to it, I believe he wants Stearns and Milwaukee hasn't allowed him to interview. So Cohen will get his man this offseason, and hopefully he's the guy that will right the ship. Personally, if it wasn't for this team being cursed, I think he'd work out great.
It just seems no matter what positive developments the Mets have, invariably Lucy pulls the football away at the last second.
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That has spent $350 million on player payroll, and he was willing to go higher.
Nobody else is even close.
Eppler deserves criticism, but also, Robertson was supposed to be the 8th inning man this year. Diaz was a big blow, it was unforeseeable and if we had him last night, for just that game at minimum, it's likely the Mets win. Perhaps they win at least 2 of 3 in this series alone with him.
That's not to forgive Eppler or deflect any blame of him or Buck, both of whom are well-deserved g of criticism. The lack of hiring a POBO to me is a tell that they are just running out the clock until they can hire Stearns.
I don't see how Cohen gets any criticism. He has done what Mets' fans have been hoping for for years, having a payroll that mirrors a big market team in New York City, and he's gone even beyond expectations in that regard
He is an owner. He deserves criticism. He is making decisions. Just spending money is not the end all be all if you aren't investing it wisely.
I'll given Cohen more time, but let's not act like his decisions have been good so far or that folks trust him. They haven't and he's been rebuffed by some of the best minds around the league (some repeatedly). He's been flailing on his efforts to build a front office close to 3 years now and settled on Eppler who was a total nothingburger GM with Anaheim, after they (him and Sandy) failed to do background sufficiently on Porter.
Wow good to hear you are going to give him more time. That's a relief to everyone. Most especially to Cohen I am sure.
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In comment 16130631 allstarjim said:
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That has spent $350 million on player payroll, and he was willing to go higher.
Nobody else is even close.
Eppler deserves criticism, but also, Robertson was supposed to be the 8th inning man this year. Diaz was a big blow, it was unforeseeable and if we had him last night, for just that game at minimum, it's likely the Mets win. Perhaps they win at least 2 of 3 in this series alone with him.
That's not to forgive Eppler or deflect any blame of him or Buck, both of whom are well-deserved g of criticism. The lack of hiring a POBO to me is a tell that they are just running out the clock until they can hire Stearns.
I don't see how Cohen gets any criticism. He has done what Mets' fans have been hoping for for years, having a payroll that mirrors a big market team in New York City, and he's gone even beyond expectations in that regard
He is an owner. He deserves criticism. He is making decisions. Just spending money is not the end all be all if you aren't investing it wisely.
I'll given Cohen more time, but let's not act like his decisions have been good so far or that folks trust him. They haven't and he's been rebuffed by some of the best minds around the league (some repeatedly). He's been flailing on his efforts to build a front office close to 3 years now and settled on Eppler who was a total nothingburger GM with Anaheim, after they (him and Sandy) failed to do background sufficiently on Porter.
Wow good to hear you are going to give him more time. That's a relief to everyone. Most especially to Cohen I am sure.
Why even bother coming in here to post this? Definitely a serious mental illness you have.