9. Marco Vargas, 2B
Signed: International Signing Period, 2022 from Mexico (MIA)
Age 18.0 Height 6′ 0″ Weight 170 Bat / Thr L / R FV 40+
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw
25/60 30/40 20/40 40/40 30/45 45
A converted catcher, Vargas was one of the better pure hitters in the 2022 DSL, walking more than he struck out and contacting pitches all over the zone. Heuristically, Vargas is in the FanGraphs wheelhouse as a compact, lefty-hitting infielder who might have special bat-to-ball ability. His hands are extremely quick and short to the ball, and Vargas’ swing has natural lift but isn’t especially long because he’s a short-levered hitter. There isn’t huge bat speed or physical projection here, so Vargas’ chances of becoming an impact player will need to come from him developing superlative bat-to-ball ability, but if his early-career performance is any indication, that outcome is in play for him. He played all over the infield in 2022 but spent most of his time at third base. He’ll likely end up playing a mix of 2B/3B and probably no shortstop over time. Because a special hit tool is the most important thing a prospect can have, Vargas is (by a wide margin) the teenage hitter in this org most likely to become a big league regular down the line.
24. Ronald Hernandez, C
Signed: International Signing Period, 2021 from Venezuela (MIA)
Age 19.6 Height 5′ 11″ Weight 175 Bat / Thr S / R FV 40
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw
25/55 35/45 20/35 30/30 40/55 55
Hernandez is an advanced switch-hitting catcher with an above-average arm and exciting feel to hit. His frame is relatively mature, but Hernandez has enough else going on that even if he’s unlikely to grow into big power, he still might have an everyday catcher’s complement of skills. While he didn’t have the same surface-level statistical success on the complex in 2022 as he did in the DSL, Hernandez’s underlying bat-to-ball metrics were still very promising. He’s a solid long-term prospect at a premium position.
Robertson has to be one of the better relievers on the market. It’s July 27. Is this really a return the Mets couldn’t turn down? Couldn’t they have waited until Tuesday and gotten more?
They're the number 18 and 21 ranked prospects in the Marlins system
They’re going to suck next year too. I don’t understand why they made this trade tonight for only two decent prospects. Billy Eppler is complete garbage.
Vargas is 18 in rookie ball - guys in rookie ball arent rated or name
prospects unless they were crazy high draft picks or signees.
Vargas sounds sort of like the marlins version of Jett Williams - and his stat line is a similarly bonkers 2 walks:1 strikeout. The guys who watch this stuff a lot like him.
fangraphs (logenhagen) had him ranked 1 spot behind khalil watson in the marlins top 10 and watson was a big $ first round pick.
he's only 18 so anything can happen but this sounds like a high upside dice roll that's worth it.
Of making this trade now. I could understand it if a team was willing to give you its top prospect right now, but not this.
While it's true I'm not privy to how these talks go, it just seems reasonable to me to believe another team would have given more closer to the deadline.
RE: They're the number 18 and 21 ranked prospects in the Marlins system
Of making this trade now. I could understand it if a team was willing to give you its top prospect right now, but not this.
While it's true I'm not privy to how these talks go, it just seems reasonable to me to believe another team would have given more closer to the deadline.
Vargas isn’t supposed to make it to the majors until 2026 if he even makes it; the other prospect is 2027. How is this a trade you can’t turn down on July 27? I hate being a Mets fan.
you guys need to look at vargas' statline for an 18 year old
filling in for Diaz and a bright spot for the Mets in a lousy season but I don’t have any problem with this trade. He’s a free agent at the end of the season and likely wasn’t going to come back.
Vargas has potential and could turn into a great prospect and the catcher Hernandez is a lottery ticket. Not a bad return at all for a 38 year old reliever who’s a free agent at the end of the season.
filling in for Diaz and a bright spot for the Mets in a lousy season but I don’t have any problem with this trade. He’s a free agent at the end of the season and likely wasn’t going to come back.
Vargas has potential and could turn into a great prospect and the catcher Hernandez is a lottery ticket. Not a bad return at all for a 38 year old reliever who’s a free agent at the end of the season.
last year he got traded for a SP from PHI who was at the time 22 in A+ and a fringe top 10 in their system. also not on a ton of lists or that widely known but a fringe honorable mention type. Ben Brown has since moved up to a bunch of lists, started strong in AA but struggled somewhat in AAA.
that was the bar for another robertson trade and id rather get an 18 year old farther away with more upside than another coleman crow personally. i like the gamble on very young guy with an elite contact approach.
If you think selling off their best trade chip 5 days before the
for Robertson. I understand the wait until Aug 1 sentiment but perhaps the Mets felt that they should accept this deal before more arms become available and it swings to a buyers market. Other teams will read this as the Mets focusing on 2024 and beyond so I hope they can still get value if they move other pieces.
nothing is going to satisfy the fanbase the season was a failure
they are going to sell what they can and get what they can. they aren't getting some massive return like soto because they dont have anyone like that to trade so getting what they can is the best of their bad options.
trust me seidler would be killing them if this was anything but a solid return. that's his usual schtick. and lower level prospects is like the 1 area where he knows as much more than everyone else as he thinks he does.
Quote:
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
every mainstream writer is referencing 6-8 month old prospect rankings to kill the return while every prospect writer who wrote them is going “holy shit they gave up Marco Vargas for a rental reliever????”
someone asked if he's immediately the mets top prospect and he doesn't really totally shoot it down.
Replying to @jeffpaternostro
Vargas?
No
@TNABLCHR
That means he’s immediately the top prospect on the team?
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Yeah, had him ahead of their first round pick coming into the year and wanted him on the Midseason 50.
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Guessing Jarrett won’t let me do this haha. But he’s actually kind of similar to Jett if you look under the hood for both good and ill.
RE: It appears we received a couple of good prospects
for Robertson. I understand the wait until Aug 1 sentiment but perhaps the Mets felt that they should accept this deal before more arms become available and it swings to a buyers market. Other teams will read this as the Mets focusing on 2024 and beyond so I hope they can still get value if they move other pieces.
i think getting a deal like this done a few days ahead of time sends a clear signal to all. considering a few hours ago robertson was warming up, they clearly had a price they communicated to the marlins and waited until it was met.
now we see what other moves they have in store.
Quote:
Mark Feinsand
@Feinsand
·
The Mets’ trade of David Robertson might be a sign they’re open for business. Is Justin Verlander on his way out of New York? There’s a growing belief that could happen.
I understand the wisdom of trading a 38 year old reliever on a one year contract for prospects...you all can debate whether the return was sufficient and I appreciate the information from those who follow minor leagues players/prospects.
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
but underwhelmed at the return. Looks kind of like a package Eppler would give up for Tyler Naquin. Robertson is probably the best reliever on the market. Would expect more, such as Vargas and a pitcher in the top 15 of the Marlins prospects.
RE: How fair is this to season ticket/partial season ticket holders?
I understand the wisdom of trading a 38 year old reliever on a one year contract for prospects...you all can debate whether the return was sufficient and I appreciate the information from those who follow minor leagues players/prospects.
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
I mean, it's unfortunate for those with tickets but are teams just not supposed to sell?
but underwhelmed at the return. Looks kind of like a package Eppler would give up for Tyler Naquin. Robertson is probably the best reliever on the market. Would expect more, such as Vargas and a pitcher in the top 15 of the Marlins prospects.
This is how I feel especially when you see how Ben Brown is in the Cubs system
but underwhelmed at the return. Looks kind of like a package Eppler would give up for Tyler Naquin. Robertson is probably the best reliever on the market. Would expect more, such as Vargas and a pitcher in the top 15 of the Marlins prospects.
I said the same thing to my friend in that it reminded me of the Naquin trade. When I first saw that we got two prospects I figured it was two pitchers. Surprised we didn't get one.
MyNameIsMyName - I understand this sentiment. I commented earlier that the deadline was a few days away and I am wondering if the Mets (whether they are correct or not) are anticipating the market to shift and possibly this offer would have been pulled as other arms would be available to buyers, as we get closer to August 1.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
danny this is a good point, as well. I never thought of that but I wouldn't be surprised if Cohen addresses this somehow. I can't think of a way an owner could address this but I am curious.
Overall, punting on a season with the payroll and goals does suck. Standing pat at the deadline could have been an option. I don't see how next year is any better. I am reading that Stearns prefers the Houston job over the Mets for POBO. Even if Stearns does come aboard, he may have his own vision of team building where he would want to rid the team of certain players to bring in his type of players. 2024 and possibly 2025 are going to be transition years.
I am thrilled that we have an owner with the resources we have but it does feel, today, that we took several steps back.
Be lying if I said I had even heard of Hernandez before this morning but both FG and pipeline think he has a shot to be a starting MLB C who can hit. I’m not going to worry about “they have Alvarez! They have Parada!” Get the best prospects and figure it out later
Like Vargas a lot. A whole lot. He’s in my top 5 Mets prospects pretty easily.
Yeah, he looks very interesting. Very (pleasantly) surprised you have him this high. I just would have preferred another pitcher in the Marlins top 15 than a catcher. They are loaded in pitching and seemed like a good opportunity to get one of theirs. Vargas looks to have some Jett like bat to ball skills and plate discipline. Doesn’t have the speed, but scouting reports have him as a good base runner
I'm very happy with Vargas as the main return in this trade. As the secondary prospect I do kind of wish we got someone a little further along preferably a pitcher but still seems like a nice piece.
Could be very good. His batted ball data in the CL was outstanding. I think he’s a 2B at the next level but this a kid who could hit for a high average, 15+ homer, and he’s considered a very high IQ player as well. Would I have loved a big time P prospect? Of course but really, really like Vargas and I think he’s a potential above average regular.
Think of it as the NFL draft chart. Someone offers you way more points in a trdade than you’d thought you would get. You wait for a better offer?
Then they pick up the entire salary, something you didn’t expect either.
And it’s early enough to send the message - blow us away and we are ready to sell. Phone blew up after this was announced!!
So yeah, absolute NO BRAINER. Don’t dismiss the money, that is massive.
Getting another catcher and infield prospect seems somewhat redundant.I was hoping that the Mets would trade for pitching prospects. The Marlins have a plethora of young pitchers. I am curious why they did not hold out for one of them.
Getting another catcher and infield prospect seems somewhat redundant.I was hoping that the Mets would trade for pitching prospects. The Marlins have a plethora of young pitchers. I am curious why they did not hold out for one of them.
You fill the system with the best players possible. There is no redundant in a minor league baseball system.
Your phone or the GM's phone (or... are they related... ;) )
Lol, I’m terrible with my phone, so I’d be the worst GM in history!!!
Couple of things that won’t get talked about. Locker room was like a funeral. They care, but all season they e had this we will turn it around soon attitude. They were stunned. Lights a fire? Too late? Let’s see who reacts and how.
Marlins scouts were stunned at this move. That, is a good sign ;)
Think of it this way. Everyone wanted them to sell, till the sold. Got a 2nd and 4th rounder. Who they’ve seen a TON first hand. And got data. On. You don’t get that from HSpicks. Didn’t have to pay them bonuses, instead save almost $6mm.
For a rental in a lost season. They may never see the majors,buts that’s a massive massive haul. Add message to roster and league, no brainer to pull that trigger last night.
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
How many has me made in total, like 10?
Someone asked for his good trades so I mentioned them. Did you skip over the part where I said he had sucked otherwise? No one is defending his overall tenure at this point but I can still be subjective enough to point out that from initial view he made a good trade here. I still hate him overall. ONce the deadline is finished let's see what other RP's get dealt and compare the returns at that point.
But trades are like draft picks. You can make some great ones, that just don’t work out.
You are going to make some good ones and bad ones.
“Trust the process” has become a meme, but it’s true. You just have to make sure you have the right process…
@Ken_Rosenthal
BREAKING: Mets trading David Robertson to the Marlins, sources tell
@TheAthletic
@Ken_Rosenthal
·
Mets getting two minor-league position players from Marlins for David Robertson, sources tell me and
@WillSammon
.
Signed: International Signing Period, 2022 from Mexico (MIA)
Age 18.0 Height 6′ 0″ Weight 170 Bat / Thr L / R FV 40+
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw
25/60 30/40 20/40 40/40 30/45 45
A converted catcher, Vargas was one of the better pure hitters in the 2022 DSL, walking more than he struck out and contacting pitches all over the zone. Heuristically, Vargas is in the FanGraphs wheelhouse as a compact, lefty-hitting infielder who might have special bat-to-ball ability. His hands are extremely quick and short to the ball, and Vargas’ swing has natural lift but isn’t especially long because he’s a short-levered hitter. There isn’t huge bat speed or physical projection here, so Vargas’ chances of becoming an impact player will need to come from him developing superlative bat-to-ball ability, but if his early-career performance is any indication, that outcome is in play for him. He played all over the infield in 2022 but spent most of his time at third base. He’ll likely end up playing a mix of 2B/3B and probably no shortstop over time. Because a special hit tool is the most important thing a prospect can have, Vargas is (by a wide margin) the teenage hitter in this org most likely to become a big league regular down the line.
24. Ronald Hernandez, C
Signed: International Signing Period, 2021 from Venezuela (MIA)
Age 19.6 Height 5′ 11″ Weight 175 Bat / Thr S / R FV 40
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw
25/55 35/45 20/35 30/30 40/55 55
Hernandez is an advanced switch-hitting catcher with an above-average arm and exciting feel to hit. His frame is relatively mature, but Hernandez has enough else going on that even if he’s unlikely to grow into big power, he still might have an everyday catcher’s complement of skills. While he didn’t have the same surface-level statistical success on the complex in 2022 as he did in the DSL, Hernandez’s underlying bat-to-ball metrics were still very promising. He’s a solid long-term prospect at a premium position.
@jaseidler
·
They got the one position prospect worth making this trade for
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
2m
Okay they got the good one at least
Vargas sounds sort of like the marlins version of Jett Williams - and his stat line is a similarly bonkers 2 walks:1 strikeout. The guys who watch this stuff a lot like him.
fangraphs (logenhagen) had him ranked 1 spot behind khalil watson in the marlins top 10 and watson was a big $ first round pick.
he's only 18 so anything can happen but this sounds like a high upside dice roll that's worth it.
While it's true I'm not privy to how these talks go, it just seems reasonable to me to believe another team would have given more closer to the deadline.
he's top 10 on fangraphs and baseball prospectus. he's 18 and in rookie ball and that's the type that's not going to be on every radar.
While it's true I'm not privy to how these talks go, it just seems reasonable to me to believe another team would have given more closer to the deadline.
Vargas isn’t supposed to make it to the majors until 2026 if he even makes it; the other prospect is 2027. How is this a trade you can’t turn down on July 27? I hate being a Mets fan.
@marlinsminors
·
This is a huge return for the Mets.
Marco Vargas is one of the furthest advanced 18 year olds I’ve seen. Ronald Hernandez is ready for A/A+ right now.
Wish those kids the best of luck in New York.
#Marlins
he has a 23.5% walk rate and a 13% k-rate.
jett has a 10% walk rate and a 21% k-rate.
vargas is 1.5 years younger than jett and 1 level lower.
2:1 walks to strikeouts for an 18 year old is insane. he is hitting .283 with a .457 obp.
Vargas has potential and could turn into a great prospect and the catcher Hernandez is a lottery ticket. Not a bad return at all for a 38 year old reliever who’s a free agent at the end of the season.
Vargas has potential and could turn into a great prospect and the catcher Hernandez is a lottery ticket. Not a bad return at all for a 38 year old reliever who’s a free agent at the end of the season.
last year he got traded for a SP from PHI who was at the time 22 in A+ and a fringe top 10 in their system. also not on a ton of lists or that widely known but a fringe honorable mention type. Ben Brown has since moved up to a bunch of lists, started strong in AA but struggled somewhat in AAA.
that was the bar for another robertson trade and id rather get an 18 year old farther away with more upside than another coleman crow personally. i like the gamble on very young guy with an elite contact approach.
trust me seidler would be killing them if this was anything but a solid return. that's his usual schtick. and lower level prospects is like the 1 area where he knows as much more than everyone else as he thinks he does.
@jaseidler
every mainstream writer is referencing 6-8 month old prospect rankings to kill the return while every prospect writer who wrote them is going “holy shit they gave up Marco Vargas for a rental reliever????”
Replying to @jeffpaternostro
Vargas?
No
@TNABLCHR
That means he’s immediately the top prospect on the team?
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Yeah, had him ahead of their first round pick coming into the year and wanted him on the Midseason 50.
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Guessing Jarrett won’t let me do this haha. But he’s actually kind of similar to Jett if you look under the hood for both good and ill.
i think getting a deal like this done a few days ahead of time sends a clear signal to all. considering a few hours ago robertson was warming up, they clearly had a price they communicated to the marlins and waited until it was met.
now we see what other moves they have in store.
@Feinsand
·
The Mets’ trade of David Robertson might be a sign they’re open for business. Is Justin Verlander on his way out of New York? There’s a growing belief that could happen.
@Darnell66007543
·
Replying to @jeffpaternostro
Where does Vargas fit within our system now? Top 15?
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Conservatively he’s in the Jett, Mauricio, Houck, Vasil group
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
I mean, it's unfortunate for those with tickets but are teams just not supposed to sell?
This is how I feel especially when you see how Ben Brown is in the Cubs system
I said the same thing to my friend in that it reminded me of the Naquin trade. When I first saw that we got two prospects I figured it was two pitchers. Surprised we didn't get one.
MyNameIsMyName - I understand this sentiment. I commented earlier that the deadline was a few days away and I am wondering if the Mets (whether they are correct or not) are anticipating the market to shift and possibly this offer would have been pulled as other arms would be available to buyers, as we get closer to August 1.
In comment 16159550 dannysection 313 said:
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
danny this is a good point, as well. I never thought of that but I wouldn't be surprised if Cohen addresses this somehow. I can't think of a way an owner could address this but I am curious.
Overall, punting on a season with the payroll and goals does suck. Standing pat at the deadline could have been an option. I don't see how next year is any better. I am reading that Stearns prefers the Houston job over the Mets for POBO. Even if Stearns does come aboard, he may have his own vision of team building where he would want to rid the team of certain players to bring in his type of players. 2024 and possibly 2025 are going to be transition years.
I am thrilled that we have an owner with the resources we have but it does feel, today, that we took several steps back.
I think if someone like Karson Milbrandt was the second piece instead people would feel better
Yeah, he looks very interesting. Very (pleasantly) surprised you have him this high. I just would have preferred another pitcher in the Marlins top 15 than a catcher. They are loaded in pitching and seemed like a good opportunity to get one of theirs. Vargas looks to have some Jett like bat to ball skills and plate discipline. Doesn’t have the speed, but scouting reports have him as a good base runner
Then they pick up the entire salary, something you didn’t expect either.
And it’s early enough to send the message - blow us away and we are ready to sell. Phone blew up after this was announced!!
So yeah, absolute NO BRAINER. Don’t dismiss the money, that is massive.
Your phone or the GM's phone (or... are they related... ;) )
You fill the system with the best players possible. There is no redundant in a minor league baseball system.
Quote:
Phone blew up after this was announced!!
Your phone or the GM's phone (or... are they related... ;) )
Lol, I’m terrible with my phone, so I’d be the worst GM in history!!!
Couple of things that won’t get talked about. Locker room was like a funeral. They care, but all season they e had this we will turn it around soon attitude. They were stunned. Lights a fire? Too late? Let’s see who reacts and how.
Marlins scouts were stunned at this move. That, is a good sign ;)
Think of it this way. Everyone wanted them to sell, till the sold. Got a 2nd and 4th rounder. Who they’ve seen a TON first hand. And got data. On. You don’t get that from HSpicks. Didn’t have to pay them bonuses, instead save almost $6mm.
For a rental in a lost season. They may never see the majors,buts that’s a massive massive haul. Add message to roster and league, no brainer to pull that trigger last night.
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
Quote:
I'm waiting....
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
How many has me made in total, like 10?
Quote:
In comment 16159632 Gmanfandan said:
Quote:
I'm waiting....
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
How many has me made in total, like 10?
Someone asked for his good trades so I mentioned them. Did you skip over the part where I said he had sucked otherwise? No one is defending his overall tenure at this point but I can still be subjective enough to point out that from initial view he made a good trade here. I still hate him overall. ONce the deadline is finished let's see what other RP's get dealt and compare the returns at that point.
You are going to make some good ones and bad ones.
“Trust the process” has become a meme, but it’s true. You just have to make sure you have the right process…
If Marlins scouts are bothered by this trade then that's a good indicator it was a win for Eppler (no matter how much you hate him)
time will tell.