Jordan Raanan @JordanRaanan
My understanding on TE Darren Waller is there was some hamstring tightness late this week. It’s not solely from an incident at today’s practice. Waller seemed to be moving relatively well at the open portion of Friday’s practice. A positive sign.
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton
Here's what I've heard on Waller: sense I get is that it's not considered a serious injury, but comes with caution because hamstrings are what they are and it's something that has slowed Waller in the past. #NYGiants
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@art_stapleton
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There were no apparent issues during media viewing period, which is brief. As I said, I get the sense it's not considered a serious injury. Tightness, so exercising caution. Something to keep an eye on. It's not nothing, but not a five-alarm fire, either. We'll see.
My sentiments exactly. The season has ended before it's begun.....
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
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???
Just a joke Eric. I can hold off being suicidal until they actually play the game.
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
I wouldn't put it past Daboll, raise all our blood pressures in the process all for some mind games. You gotta respect that
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
Didnt they do this going into the packer game last year with jones and his ankle? basically said the gameplan changes because he cant run?
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
Works for me. I also hope the power and/or plumbing goes out at the Cowpukes’ hotel Saturday night and there’s a “fire drill” at around 5 a.m. just a coincidence, ya know (probably lots of Giants fans in the hotel workers union) 😁😏
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
From your lips to God's ear. *grin*
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
I think Dabol is screwing with BBI more than the Cowboys :)
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
That fits with Daboll's MO.
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My sentiments exactly. The season has ended before it's begun.....
Tyler Smith didn't today or practice all week. The only screwing with us was Jerry Jones saying he'd be fine.
Alright, we don’t need him. NEXT MAN UP!!!
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
100%
But he has been injured so often that I think he actually may not play. I truly hope I am wrong.
But he has been injured so often that I think he actually may not play. I truly hope I am wrong.
Right. Waller's injury history precedes him.
This is not one of them. We need Waller for this game
Yeah you have to work your way up to this one...
Even if Waller doesn't play the players they'll have available are a large upgrade over what they played with in the two games last season. That said, Waller is going to play until they officially say he isn't.
Waller and Neal.
There literally isn’t one single person on the planet that gives a shit what you think. Seriously. You’re a dumpster fire
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
That’s exactly what my brother texted me when the news came out this afternoon lol.
Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.
This is not one of them. We need Waller for this game
Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.
You seem mad.
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Just like they screwed Dallas out of Kincaid.
Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket.
You seem mad.
I was laughing how some always want to believe anything that ends with Dallas getting screwed. Even an outright lie.
That's the Jon Lovitz liar character, for those that don't get the pop culture reference.
I'm just telling you I don't buy the "he's had a tight hamstring all week... but he wasn't on the injury report until Friday... but he didn't miss practice on Friday" narrative.
If anything, the Cowboys should be complaining, "if he had a tight hamstring all week, why wasn't he on the Wednesday and Thursday injury report?" (yes, they didn't practice on Thursday, but the team was required to issue an injury report)
How does this benefit the Giants? It simply causes some confusion. It's not like this hasn't been done. Belichick's coaching career is filled with this shit. (And where did Daboll spend most of his coaching career?)
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
I hope you're right, but the dude has been oft injured the last few seasons. I guess it depends on which you think is more likely.
We all knew the upside/downside with him when the trade went through.
We have had a lot more players on our team who have far more injury issues.
If he rolled his ankle and was trending towards playing? Whatever. But we did not want to hear anything about his hamstrings two days before opening kick. Even if they’re just “tightening up”. Nature of the injury not the player.
If he rolled his ankle and was trending towards playing? Whatever. But we did not want to hear anything about his hamstrings two days before opening kick. Even if they’re just “tightening up”. Nature of the injury not the player.
I've watched football for decades. I am not familiar with hamstrings being necessarily chronic. In other words, just because someone pulled a hamstring doesn't mean it has to happen again.
Ignore the fantasy slant, this is written by a DPT
https://www.fantasypoints.com/nfl/articles/season/2021/what-to-expect-hamstring-strains#/ - ( New Window )
Better to rest him as it's going to be a long season. Hopefully we can get at least 8 games in uniform.
Better to rest him as it's going to be a long season. Hopefully we can get at least 8 games in uniform.
This is absolutely not true. When SOTI was around, he used to tell me all of the time the various injuries the Giants players had that were not reported or underreported. Everyone in the NFL does it.
I remember him telling me that Strahan had a knee issue that they simply did not want other teams to know about.
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And everything to do with the nature of hamstring injuries and the tendency towards recurrence, specifically with older players. Ask Cooper Kupp who aggravated a hamstring injury at the start of camp then all of a sudden had a setback last week, was flying to Minnesota to see a specialist and is at risk of landing on IR.
If he rolled his ankle and was trending towards playing? Whatever. But we did not want to hear anything about his hamstrings two days before opening kick. Even if they’re just “tightening up”. Nature of the injury not the player.
I've watched football for decades. I am not familiar with hamstrings being necessarily chronic. In other words, just because someone pulled a hamstring doesn't mean it has to happen again.
Anyone who has pulled, or worse, torn a hamstring like I’ve done will tell you it’s not “chronic” but do it once and you are liable to do it again. The muscle gets weaker when you damage it. Stretching and treatment is supposed to help.
Obviously, these guys have access and time for the best treatment available but the only real treatment once it’s hurt is time for it to heal. “Tightness” to me sounds like Waller felt like it was going to be a pull if he kept using it so they shut him down.
It could be nothing, Thursday to Sunday could be enough time for the it to get better, or he could feel it when he goes full speed on Sunday and has to shut it down again. Hamstrings are tricky.
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And everything to do with the nature of hamstring injuries and the tendency towards recurrence, specifically with older players. Ask Cooper Kupp who aggravated a hamstring injury at the start of camp then all of a sudden had a setback last week, was flying to Minnesota to see a specialist and is at risk of landing on IR.
If he rolled his ankle and was trending towards playing? Whatever. But we did not want to hear anything about his hamstrings two days before opening kick. Even if they’re just “tightening up”. Nature of the injury not the player.
I've watched football for decades. I am not familiar with hamstrings being necessarily chronic. In other words, just because someone pulled a hamstring doesn't mean it has to happen again.
Are you familiar with a wide receiver named Kadarius Toney?
Today they changed the headline to:
Darren Waller is questionable against Cowboys in concerning update
And, the story now has this added line:
Waller did what was asked of him during practice Friday and did not leave the field early.
I think Eric's gamesmanship theory is increasingly likely.
Good teams win under adversity and honestly, losing one player, no matter how good they are, isn't even real adversity.
LFG Giants!
Hamstrings are the most common injury in football, but I can't recall a player we had in 40 years who we said, "pray he doesn't pull his hamstring again!"
The tight end was designated as limited in practice after he felt some tightness in his hamstring between the Wednesday and Friday practices.
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Waller did what was asked of him during practice Friday and did not leave the field early.
Dunleavy on Waller - ( New Window )
The games he missed in 2021 were due to two separate injuries, one more serious. He had ankle and knee sprains.
The issue in 2022 was his hamstring.
Before that, the last time he appeared on any injury report with a hamstring injury was 2015.
If the Giants are being extraordinarily cautious with Waller..I agree with them. Learning how to get better at managing injuries/load/health is something they’ve admitted they needed to make a priority.
I don’t care if they give him the Plax treatment during the week..whatever it takes to keep his availability high.
When a player injures a hamstring DURING a year, there is always the risk in THAT year that he will come back too early and pull it again.
That's exceptionally common.
So if Jalin Hyatt pulled his hamstring last week and was held out a few games, yes, there would be worry he would come back too soon.
But in a new season? I am just not familiar with any Giants player who we ever worried about "chronic" hamstring issues.
I get that the video posted was just warmups, but it didn’t look like Waller was favoring his hamstring on either leg. Doesn’t mean it’s not tight but it means it’s more likely than not that he plays on Sunday.
It’s simply a very common injury to explosive players, and hamstring tightness is something that some players learn how to improve and implement the strategies to to that and I think other players who don’t take it as seriously leave themselves more vulnerable to incurring those types of injuries again and again. Toomer battled injuries early on as a player, including hamstring injuries. He set out to find ways to make his body less susceptible to those injures by doing things like yoga(Azeez made a similar move this offseason while training down in Georgia). That was a turning point in Toomers career, when he learned how to manage the health of his own body(I think it was also a turning point for Tiki as well).
When a player injures a hamstring DURING a year, there is always the risk in THAT year that he will come back too early and pull it again.
That's exceptionally common.
So if Jalin Hyatt pulled his hamstring last week and was held out a few games, yes, there would be worry he would come back too soon.
But in a new season? I am just not familiar with any Giants player who we ever worried about "chronic" hamstring issues.
Data shows elevated risk for 2 years after strain. It goes up further as you get older. He strained both his hamstrings last year and he's 30. It is in the article I linked.
A very recent example of a non-Giant player with a "chronic" recurrence over multiple seasons is Julio Jones. It ended his career.
I am not saying this will happen but they will be exercising a lot of caution with him and those soft tissue issues. So like mike said above, if he feels it's tight in warmups on Sunday, they may elect to shut him down out of caution. Or worse, it tightens up on him but he guts it through and that leads to a more significant strain when he's going full speed during the game. Then he's missing multiple games and it's an ongoing thing all season.
It does sound like he's more likely to play than not, which is great. But even if he suits up on Sunday, this isn't nothing and something to monitor.
Waller pulled his hamstring in 2022 and it nagged him the whole year.. The previous time he appeared on an injury report with a hamstring injury was SEVEN years before that. That's not anything unusual from any normal NFL player.
Hell, we've had players on this team who have missed the bulk of the year with a calf injury (see Ojulari as the most recent example). But I'm not losing sleep about Ojulari either.
Should the Giants be cautious with Waller if his hamstring feels tight in practice? Sure. And that's what they did.
But I'm not sure I would be holding him out of games against the Dallas Cowboys or Philadelphia Eagles. That's why he's here.
I do agree that he's more likely to play through something because of the importance of this first game against Dallas. But if he's playing through a tight hamstring after dealing with them last year, he's high risk for a more serious injury. The theory that this is nothing but gamesmanship is silly to me.
@JFowlerESPN
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From
@SportsCenter
a bit ago, Darren Waller’s hamstring injury is not believed to be serious and the Giants are hopeful he can play Sunday night vs. Dallas, per source. No firm determination yet. Team will likely monitor through the weekend.
I only mentioned Julio Jones because Eric couldn't think of a NYG player with multiple seasons of hamstring problems and a HOF WR in the NFL was just dealing with this a couple of seasons ago. A very obvious example is staring you in the face.
Giants probably would like for the hamstring to loosen up
Today they changed the headline to:
Darren Waller is questionable against Cowboys in concerning update
And, the story now has this added line:
Great find HBart. That is significant.
Waller did what was asked of him during practice Friday and did not leave the field early.
I think Eric's gamesmanship theory is increasingly likely.
The risk is if the injury isn't fully recovered recurrence is extremely high. And even lower grade injuries can take several weeks to recover.
That's where you get lingering issues. A player feels better after a few weeks, gets back on the field, and then ends ups back at square one something in the order of 15-60% of the time.
I think Eric's gamesmanship theory is increasingly likely.
McCarthy and Quinn have been around a long time. Do you really think they are going to have the wool pulled over their eyes by this?
When Waller plays do you think they are going to say, "JFC, I can't believe he's playing...Those clever Giants really tricked us..."
They are 100% preparing for Waller to play.
@JFowlerESPN
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14h
From
@SportsCenter
a bit ago, Darren Waller’s hamstring injury is not believed to be serious and the Giants are hopeful he can play Sunday night vs. Dallas, per source. No firm determination yet. Team will likely monitor through the weekend.
On October 10, 2022
On November 10, 2022
And then of course Waller returned on December 18.
I'm not saying the past as an indication of the future, but you don't have to look towards another player to get an example of where these things have lingered.
I already noted that having an in-season hamstring issue is tricky.
But we're in a different season.
We're talking about a player who wasn't even held out of practice yesterday.
The risk is if the injury isn't fully recovered recurrence is extremely high. And even lower grade injuries can take several weeks to recover.
That's where you get lingering issues. A player feels better after a few weeks, gets back on the field, and then ends ups back at square one something in the order of 15-60% of the time.
This sounds very right to me. And flat out injury aside it's absurd to construe that hamstring injury or recurrence is somehow attuned to the NFL calendar. Hamstrings beat to their own drummer.
Complexity of the muscle group is key; moreover, the bigger the athlete, more likely the thicker the inter-related tissues of muscle groups that comprise the hamstring and the more uncertainty in healing. Disagree a bit with BSIMatt who observed that there was no pop, ergo we have less to be concerned about. Yes, a pop would be a serious tear and out for half the season. Strains--tightness??--can be very mild to more serious, but they are tears nonetheless; even mild strains weaken the group and can progress and aggravate to something more serious. imho is not likely to be a one and done story with Waller, given his history, given his importance to the BD/MK offense. I'm with AcesUp on this.
There you have it: from Dr. Internet to Dr. CHP Ha! fwiw
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I think Eric's gamesmanship theory is increasingly likely.
McCarthy and Quinn have been around a long time. Do you really think they are going to have the wool pulled over their eyes by this?
When Waller plays do you think they are going to say, "JFC, I can't believe he's playing...Those clever Giants really tricked us..."
They are 100% preparing for Waller to play.
No I don't think that at all. But if they have to spend an hour between now and Sunday on discussing it's a win for the Giants.
Also a mirror of what Dallas did: "Jerry Jones said earlier Tuesday he was confident that Smith would be ready to go for Sunday’s regular season opener."
I think it's tit for tat and a middle finger to Jones.
I already noted that having an in-season hamstring issue is tricky.
But we're in a different season.
We're talking about a player who wasn't even held out of practice yesterday.
I'm just bringing forward a recent example where the same player hurt the same part of his body, and the initial optimistic impression proved to be inaccurate.
I'm not implying the same thing will happen, just relevant to the conversation I thought.
Dunleavy was tweeting out yesterday that of course Waller got hurt in practice and of course he didn't finish practice.
Neither one of those things were true.
And he still hasn't walked it back other than quietly correcting the NYP article.
Dunleavy was tweeting out yesterday that of course Waller got hurt in practice and of course he didn't finish practice.
Neither one of those things were true.
And he still hasn't walked it back other than quietly correcting the NYP article.
Exactly right. He looked at the Giants practice/injury report (which they published early), saw Questionable/Limited for Waller, extrapolated in his head that Waller didn't finish practice because he saw the start of it, and then sensationalized a tweet.
And it worked. Got him lots of eyeballs.
Personally over the last 2 weeks, based on what I've observed, Dunleavy is the least credible of the beats by a fair amount.
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is a prime example of a reporter causing angst.
Dunleavy was tweeting out yesterday that of course Waller got hurt in practice and of course he didn't finish practice.
Neither one of those things were true.
And he still hasn't walked it back other than quietly correcting the NYP article.
Exactly right. He looked at the Giants practice/injury report (which they published early), saw Questionable/Limited for Waller, extrapolated in his head that Waller didn't finish practice because he saw the start of it, and then sensationalized a tweet.
And it worked. Got him lots of eyeballs.
Personally over the last 2 weeks, based on what I've observed, Dunleavy is the least credible of the beats by a fair amount.
He's gotten a decent amount of inside info this offseason, especially with the Saquon situation that more or less proved to be accurate.
The problem with him is that he is obviously one of those that puts a pessimistic spin on his pieces so his content is generally unlikable.
In addition to that, he has moments like this where he is clearly stirring shit. He's not on Pat Leonard level for me yet (because he actually has broken some stories), but he's definitely trending in that direction.
Personally, I'm not feeling angst. I'm feeling whatever is 1 or 2 steps below that.
My feeling is Darren Waller had a hamstring injury that was initially reported to be not serious and then missed a bunch of games last year. I hope this not serious injury doesn't get worse like the last one.
I am not certain that the tightness he felt would necessarily even indicate a strain(it might, there's certainly those more knowledgeable than me). He could have pushed himself on wednesday, the extent he felt more tightness in the day between sessions...I'm not sure that necessarily means he does have what would qualify as even a mild strain. I think if the muscle experienced heavy load it could be just that tightness left over from the activity itself and he may have come to them knowing of his own history and erring on the side of caution(which I'm sure with the importance of Waller to the team that the coaches have talked about the importance of managing his health with him). I've pulled hamstrings before(the pop feeling), and I've strained them before(exceeding my range on a lift and feeling it during the lift, and then afterwards)..but I've also had that feeling of tightness on days after heavy exertion on the hamstrings(hills, days after heavy deadlift days etc)..where the hammys are tightened..but not necessarily strained. Obviously lifting/or intense exercise to a particular muscle does create those microtears that lead to growth..but I think that's a different animal than an actual strain/tearing event. Getting far outside my knowledgebase here so I'll stop.
This isn’t panic either, I do think he’s more likely to play Sunday than not. But I do think you’re kidding yourself just a little bit if hearing waller experiencing hamstring tightness doesn’t concern you.
This isn’t panic either, I do think he’s more likely to play Sunday than not. But I do think you’re kidding yourself just a little bit if hearing waller experiencing hamstring tightness doesn’t concern you.
Let me be blunt. Dunleavy was wrong. And he was wrong because he guessed.
This isn’t panic either, I do think he’s more likely to play Sunday than not. But I do think you’re kidding yourself just a little bit if hearing waller experiencing hamstring tightness doesn’t concern you.
You seem incredibly invested in making sure other posters are just as “concerned” as you. Two days now on two different threads. Why is it so important to you that others are as concerned as you are?
This isn’t panic either, I do think he’s more likely to play Sunday than not. But I do think you’re kidding yourself just a little bit if hearing waller experiencing hamstring tightness doesn’t concern you.
We have no idea what or if there's a problem. Assuming "he did everything asked to do in practice" is true " it could be a pre-arranged management plan based on last year's hamstring injury. Was it you who linked an (excellent) article on hamstring injuries and likelihood of recurrence within a year and with age? The same risk factors also point to the Giants having him on a preventive regimen.
Or he tweaked it for real.
We truly don't know.
The only thing we do know is that mystery on things like this is Daboll's MO. And if they limited him in practice yesterday because of preventive hamstring regimen he'd happily list him as Q. As they would if he tweaked it for real.
Eric - We were never in disagreement on that just getting caught up in the semantics between speculation and guessing. I never really cared about the Dunleavy report, it was always seeing Waller end up on an injury report with hamstring. But yes, Dunleavy was loose with choice of words.
And his clear focus on mystery leading to this game.
And everyone in the building likes to give Jerruh the finger.
I believe we win a good game and Waller will key it as he is a matchup problem for Dallas.
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It’s the league wide history of a tempermental injury. I frankly assumed it was common knowledge among fans when it comes to hamstring injuries. He’s less than a year removed from the injury, I don’t think his hamstring cares where he is on the nfl calendar.
This isn’t panic either, I do think he’s more likely to play Sunday than not. But I do think you’re kidding yourself just a little bit if hearing waller experiencing hamstring tightness doesn’t concern you.
You seem incredibly invested in making sure other posters are just as “concerned” as you. Two days now on two different threads. Why is it so important to you that others are as concerned as you are?
Since I'm right all the time, I want to make sure everyone else is too.
I believe we win a good game and Waller will key it as he is a matchup problem for Dallas.
If the Giants secondary holds the Giants can -- dare say would -- win by taking the air out the ball with a Barkley-centric formula plus the other weapons on the field.
If Dallas can gain chunks we probably need Waller.
Or not. The games were close last year with half the team hurt and a far lesser group of healthy guys.
He will likely be on the injury list because of it a LOT. In all likelihood, it won’t stop him from playing or being effective. Now could he injure it to the point of not being able to play? Sure! It’s also very possible, he plays all 17 games and had a great season. They will manage it, he will manage it, and we shouldn’t lose any sleep over it.
Just line Jones’ neck injury going into last season. Every ti
E he took off and ran, we hoped he wouldn’t re-injure it. Similar deals.
Since I'm right all the time, I want to make sure everyone else is too.
Maybe a little guilty of that here but to be fair, that describes most of the dialogue on the internet.
Link - ( New Window )
That doesn't mean Waller's hamstring didn't tighten up this week, but this sounds like some old school Parcells/Belichick crap.
Nah, really not buying that Eric.
The guy missed 5 games in '21, and 8 games last year cuz of his hamstring issues. Those days are over I think. (for Giants I mean).