They looked really good on that opening drive. Until the bad snap and the TD return on the blocked FG. And then they fell apart. It’s like they came completely unnerved.
I agree. That might be the worst NFL performance I've ever seen by ANY team, not just the giants. It was comical, with the sacks, fumbles, etc. Unbelievable.
In comment 16199528 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
Everything went wrong. Ever single bounce went the wrong way. Just a terrible game from almost start to finish.
They need to do some soul searching this week and try to get right against the Card. Good grief that sucked.
Other than the last 2-3 games I don't even think Judge was this bad.
RE: This team was not ready to play and it showed tonight
There definitely was a miscalculation by coaches and management as ti where the players were mentally and physically to play this game against the Cowboys.
^^This
RE: RE: I lost all faith in both Daboll and Schoen after this game
I get wanting to give Jones more weapons and some speed. On paper, we did that. However, the OL was not improved and the only real addition (which we are still evaluating) is the center we drafted.
If the OL does not hold up, the whole offense fails and we get turnovers.
Drafting a guy like Hyatt with great speed is pointless if the QB is already on his back by the time Hyatt is 10 yards down field.
Evan Neal has no feet and Bredeson is not much better. These guys are statues. They need some other type of agility training somewhere that has nothing to do with football.
I was skeptical that the two best lineman available both happened to be from NC; it felt like maybe too much consideration had been given to a second-tier football program of a basketball school.
Neither have developed into being part of the solution to the O-line problem, and they occupy roster slots that should be filled by better players.
McKethan missed his entire rookie year with an ACL and Ezeudu most of his rookie year and also had surgery. They are both still rookies.
I’m tired of this argument, right now neither belong on a 53; if they need development/rehab there’s the PS, no team is going to poach either of them.
RE: RE: This team was not ready to play and it showed tonight
There definitely was a miscalculation by coaches and management as ti where the players were mentally and physically to play this game against the Cowboys.
^^This
You would have thought the playoff game against the Eagles was a wake up call. Apparently, they all spent the last 6 months basking in the glow of the Minnesota game.
RE: RE: RE: This team was not ready to play and it showed tonight
There definitely was a miscalculation by coaches and management as ti where the players were mentally and physically to play this game against the Cowboys.
^^This
You would have thought the playoff game against the Eagles was a wake up call. Apparently, they all spent the last 6 months basking in the glow of the Minnesota game.
I don't think it's quite that but I do think they were completely unprepared for the intensity of the game.
Also, it looked to me like our equipment man too. We slid around our own field 10x Dallas. Not a play without at least one Giant slipping. Or maybe that's because they were shell-shocked.
this was largely the same Offensive Line that got DESTROYED by DAL and PHI last year. And they swapped out Feliciano (who at least had a toughness presence) for an undersized rookie.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
to do better,” the coaches and players need to come out and say they were embarrassed and didn’t deserve to be on the same field. I certainly was feeling that way. It’s so frustrating not to see any of our “better” took it upon himself to make a play. The team collectively just mailed it in.
this was largely the same Offensive Line that got DESTROYED by DAL and PHI last year. And they swapped out Feliciano (who at least had a toughness presence) for an undersized rookie.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
They’ve poured assets into the oline every year. They had no cap space last offseason to overhaul the entire line.
this was largely the same Offensive Line that got DESTROYED by DAL and PHI last year. And they swapped out Feliciano (who at least had a toughness presence) for an undersized rookie.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
They’ve poured assets into the oline every year. They had no cap space last offseason to overhaul the entire line.
I know they have, believe me. I'm just saying to expect an OL that got its ass handed to them to magically be good this year was pretty foolish. They proved beyond a shadow of a doubt they couldn't block good defensive fronts last year and now, here we are again.
The cherry on top? Nick Gates looks excellent at C for Washington.
It certainly was not just one game, but rather a continuation of the poor play by the OL that has plagued this team for some time. Seems that the management made a major miscalculation in terms of the OL. Neal has bust written all over him and the RG and LG positions are mediocre, at best. Reinforcements are not arriving.
Kafka continued to try plays that took time to develop and involved pulling OL who are too slow to make their assignments against a faster team. Was this a shock?
Jones was under pressure all night but again raises concerns about his decision-making. He's got to be a game manager, not a game savior.
Where is the pass rush? KT may not be the disappointment that Neal is, but he has yet to show that he is going to be a quality player.
No, this was not just one game. It was a measuring stick and the Giants came up far short of even being competent against a good team.
this was largely the same Offensive Line that got DESTROYED by DAL and PHI last year. And they swapped out Feliciano (who at least had a toughness presence) for an undersized rookie.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
They’ve poured assets into the oline every year. They had no cap space last offseason to overhaul the entire line.
Who said overhaul? How about one, at least average, guard?
Did the Giants read their press clippings a bit and go in overconfident? Did everyone forget the Philly loss in the playoffs & just think the season ended in Minnesota?
Was the pretty light on contact training camp to keep everyone healthy do then a disservice? Send like we got punched in the mouth pretty good.
Man the OL… what a revolving door of a problem since…. Heck a decade? I saw JMS get manhandled a few times but he’s a rookie, so let’s hip he gets better… but Neal? The right side is STILL a big problem.
and can't push myself to look now. I have one question. What was the reaction (or the reactions now) to the Thomas false start on the opening drive? That was a significant penalty with or without the blocked FG. It took a very manageable 3rd down to 3rd and medium top long. But, I think it was Pappa who joked right after that it seemed like what KC OTs were getting away with all game on Thursday. Thoughts?
Last offseason and what they signed for. The Giants just had to restructure Jones’ deal to be able to operate this season. What move was there to make at guard given the limited resources? Guards - ( New Window )
and can't push myself to look now. I have one question. What was the reaction (or the reactions now) to the Thomas false start on the opening drive? That was a significant penalty with or without the blocked FG. It took a very manageable 3rd down to 3rd and medium top long. But, I think it was Pappa who joked right after that it seemed like what KC OTs were getting away with all game on Thursday. Thoughts?
There were quite a few plays that mirrored the non calls of the KC-DET game. One that stood out was Bellinger moving before everyone else, but it wasn’t called.
Embarrassing Giants games I've ever seen. So bad in fact that I turned the game off at halftime, the first time in my history of watching Giants opening games. All aspects of the game were bad, nothing positive to hold on to. One last thought, Evan Neal and Kayvan Thibodeaux do not get contract extensions when their time comes up. In my opinion both are empty uniforms.
when Dallas just played with our buttholes AGAIN. Every single motherfucker on the NY Giants, including the coaches and the ballboy just got ransacked by Jerry Jones and that shitty fucking star again. I couldn't give a fuck about one play in this game when every single fucking play was dogshit.
Last offseason and what they signed for. The Giants just had to restructure Jones’ deal to be able to operate this season. What move was there to make at guard given the limited resources? Guards - ( New Window )
They could have made room for Seumalo at $8 million a year. He should have been more of a priority than another wide receiver like Campbell whose make $5 million a year.
Sure but the players also have to want to come here
Embarrassing Giants games I've ever seen. So bad in fact that I turned the game off at halftime, the first time in my history of watching Giants opening games. All aspects of the game were bad, nothing positive to hold on to. One last thought, Evan Neal and Kayvan Thibodeaux do not get contract extensions when their time comes up. In my opinion both are empty uniforms.
I was almost in the same boat. I didn't turn it off, but I was plenty "happy" to turn my attention to helping my son with some HW. My older son used to chastise me when he was little any time I would say that's the ball game after a terrible, back breaking play, regardless of score or time left. In a way, his child optimism helped with some of those lean years. But, last night, after the pick 6 when I asked him, is that the ball game right there, his I don't know response was shocking. It certainly did nothing to keep me from thinking we were done.
RE: Sure but the players also have to want to come here
Embarrassing Giants games I've ever seen. So bad in fact that I turned the game off at halftime, the first time in my history of watching Giants opening games. All aspects of the game were bad, nothing positive to hold on to. One last thought, Evan Neal and Kayvan Thibodeaux do not get contract extensions when their time comes up. In my opinion both are empty uniforms.
I was almost in the same boat. I didn't turn it off, but I was plenty "happy" to turn my attention to helping my son with some HW. My older son used to chastise me when he was little any time I would say that's the ball game after a terrible, back breaking play, regardless of score or time left. In a way, his child optimism helped with some of those lean years. But, last night, after the pick 6 when I asked him, is that the ball game right there, his I don't know response was shocking. It certainly did nothing to keep me from thinking we were done.
I turned it off after Dallas made it 26-0 in the second quarter. I've never done that during an opening regular season game.
On players three years out from contract talks. What's the point? Just spitting mad about the game, and I get that, but why do your thoughts even go there?
We have seen this version of the Giants-Cowboys game so many times now
this was largely the same Offensive Line that got DESTROYED by DAL and PHI last year. And they swapped out Feliciano (who at least had a toughness presence) for an undersized rookie.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
I turned it off after Dallas made it 26-0 in the second quarter. I've never done that during an opening regular season game.
Same and I have NEVER done that in 45 years of watching the Giants. This was the first time that my son wanted to sit down and watch a football game with his dad. He has had ZERO interest in sports until now...
You know how bad it was..
It reminded me of being 12 years old and watching " The Fumble " with my dad and crying because they didnt just kneel down. That pain never went away until we won in 1986.
I dont want my kid to go through the pain I went through during the 70's
RE: RE: Sure but the players also have to want to come here
Now you're moving the goalposts. If he's not willing to pay, the guy won't want to come here.
It’s not moving the goalposts. They had limited resources to improve the team this offseason. They couldn’t get into bidding wars for guards. How do we know they didn’t offer guards contracts and they preferred other destinations?
The previous guy, who some on here wanted to pat on the back, left the team devoid of talent in a lot of areas. They’re not going to be fixed all in two offseason. That being said the team shouldn’t be embarrassed like they were last night. Multiple things can be true.
I actually felt good going into this game that it would at least be competitive. And the first drive was vindicating that feeling. A few thoughts:
* they answered the asshole Collinsworth's question re how to slow the DAL pass rush on the first drive: RUN THE BALL RIGHT AT IT! I thought they panicked after the blocked kick and went pass happy too soon. There was no need to do that at 6-0.
* the OL was obviously atrocious, Neal struggled, looked like Schmitz had some jitters, AT tried to tough it out. But what really struck me was how SLOOOOOOW their Guards are. Every time they tried to pull or pass off a defender to a G Bredeson and Glowinski were too slow getting there. Why keep doing it? And no help given to the OTs when you have 2 TEs? If AT is really hurt they are in trouble.
* Say all you want about Neal and he had a tough night, but where the fuck was Thibodeaux? It was like he didn't even play. Total zero.
* Can we dispense with the Wink is a Mad Genius talk? His D sucked and his famous pass rush did shit. Dak had all day to throw.
* will they ever have competent Special Teams again in our lifetimes
I hope they have relief pitcher closer type short memories, because a game game like that could be a season killer if not handled right mentally.
For some fans, Barkley is above the fray. He always gets a pass.
Not from my keyboard he doesn't.
Let me re-frame this in a hypothetical. If Barkley caught the ball, turned up field, SAW the defender coming to brace for the hit, I would be on your side if Barkley coughed the ball up in that situation...
No neded to reframe. Barkley had the ball in his hands - if he loses it or ti goes right through his hands - it's on him. No need for excuse making. This is undisputable no matter how hard you try to reframe it.
Barkley is a pro player. His responsibility is to hold onto the football.
Yes I thought that was a fumble. He caught it and made a "football move" as they say.
RE: RE: RE: Sure but the players also have to want to come here
Now you're moving the goalposts. If he's not willing to pay, the guy won't want to come here.
It’s not moving the goalposts. They had limited resources to improve the team this offseason. They couldn’t get into bidding wars for guards. How do we know they didn’t offer guards contracts and they preferred other destinations?
The previous guy, who some on here wanted to pat on the back, left the team devoid of talent in a lot of areas. They’re not going to be fixed all in two offseason. That being said the team shouldn’t be embarrassed like they were last night. Multiple things can be true.
Well, all summer the sheer number of WRs brought in was lauded, like all we needed was skill players. In retrospect, maybe pass on a Beasley or Campbell or one or two others and get an OL.
Jeffrey, this is spot on. The OGs are painfully slow:
Kafka continued to try plays that took time to develop and involved pulling OL who are too slow to make their assignments against a faster team. Was this a shock?
On players three years out from contract talks. What's the point? Just spitting mad about the game, and I get that, but why do your thoughts even go there?
This. Thibs will be fine.
RE: I lost all faith in both Daboll and Schoen after this game
to do better,” the coaches and players need to come out and say they were embarrassed and didn’t deserve to be on the same field. I certainly was feeling that way. It’s so frustrating not to see any of our “better” took it upon himself to make a play. The team collectively just mailed it in.
Agree. We need to bring back the practice of decimation. Or at least impose team-wide yubitsume. Or demand the players forfeit their gamechecks.
Embarrassing isn’t strong enough to describe what I witnessed.
Actually AT's false start on a 3rd and 3....
Studs: none.
Duds: everyone.
The end.
Studs: none.
Duds: everyone.
The end.
Coaches sucked too. Team was not prepared for adversity. Did the team quit?
In comment 16199528 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
Everything went wrong. Ever single bounce went the wrong way. Just a terrible game from almost start to finish.
They need to do some soul searching this week and try to get right against the Card. Good grief that sucked.
Other than the last 2-3 games I don't even think Judge was this bad.
^^This
Quote:
Two frauds.
Wow! Stereotypical fan are we?
yeah that was a stupid comment... however, I have seen others from that poster so I am not surprised
I get wanting to give Jones more weapons and some speed. On paper, we did that. However, the OL was not improved and the only real addition (which we are still evaluating) is the center we drafted.
If the OL does not hold up, the whole offense fails and we get turnovers.
Drafting a guy like Hyatt with great speed is pointless if the QB is already on his back by the time Hyatt is 10 yards down field.
Evan Neal has no feet and Bredeson is not much better. These guys are statues. They need some other type of agility training somewhere that has nothing to do with football.
Quote:
spill all of our protections schemes and secrets or something? Because good god that was bad.
I literally signed on to say this.
Quote:
I was skeptical that the two best lineman available both happened to be from NC; it felt like maybe too much consideration had been given to a second-tier football program of a basketball school.
Neither have developed into being part of the solution to the O-line problem, and they occupy roster slots that should be filled by better players.
McKethan missed his entire rookie year with an ACL and Ezeudu most of his rookie year and also had surgery. They are both still rookies.
I’m tired of this argument, right now neither belong on a 53; if they need development/rehab there’s the PS, no team is going to poach either of them.
Quote:
There definitely was a miscalculation by coaches and management as ti where the players were mentally and physically to play this game against the Cowboys.
^^This
Quote:
In comment 16199703 Rich_Houston_1971 said:
Quote:
There definitely was a miscalculation by coaches and management as ti where the players were mentally and physically to play this game against the Cowboys.
^^This
You would have thought the playoff game against the Eagles was a wake up call. Apparently, they all spent the last 6 months basking in the glow of the Minnesota game.
I don't think it's quite that but I do think they were completely unprepared for the intensity of the game.
Also, it looked to me like our equipment man too. We slid around our own field 10x Dallas. Not a play without at least one Giant slipping. Or maybe that's because they were shell-shocked.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
Schmitz is 6'4", 320. He's not undersized.
His character wasn’t high enough for the Giants. He wasn’t as classy as Baker and Toney.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
They’ve poured assets into the oline every year. They had no cap space last offseason to overhaul the entire line.
Quote:
this was largely the same Offensive Line that got DESTROYED by DAL and PHI last year. And they swapped out Feliciano (who at least had a toughness presence) for an undersized rookie.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
They’ve poured assets into the oline every year. They had no cap space last offseason to overhaul the entire line.
I know they have, believe me. I'm just saying to expect an OL that got its ass handed to them to magically be good this year was pretty foolish. They proved beyond a shadow of a doubt they couldn't block good defensive fronts last year and now, here we are again.
The cherry on top? Nick Gates looks excellent at C for Washington.
Kafka continued to try plays that took time to develop and involved pulling OL who are too slow to make their assignments against a faster team. Was this a shock?
Jones was under pressure all night but again raises concerns about his decision-making. He's got to be a game manager, not a game savior.
Where is the pass rush? KT may not be the disappointment that Neal is, but he has yet to show that he is going to be a quality player.
No, this was not just one game. It was a measuring stick and the Giants came up far short of even being competent against a good team.
Quote:
this was largely the same Offensive Line that got DESTROYED by DAL and PHI last year. And they swapped out Feliciano (who at least had a toughness presence) for an undersized rookie.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
They’ve poured assets into the oline every year. They had no cap space last offseason to overhaul the entire line.
Who said overhaul? How about one, at least average, guard?
Did the Giants read their press clippings a bit and go in overconfident? Did everyone forget the Philly loss in the playoffs & just think the season ended in Minnesota?
Was the pretty light on contact training camp to keep everyone healthy do then a disservice? Send like we got punched in the mouth pretty good.
Man the OL… what a revolving door of a problem since…. Heck a decade? I saw JMS get manhandled a few times but he’s a rookie, so let’s hip he gets better… but Neal? The right side is STILL a big problem.
Gates looks "excellent?"
Guards - ( New Window )
There were quite a few plays that mirrored the non calls of the KC-DET game. One that stood out was Bellinger moving before everyone else, but it wasn’t called.
Truer words have never been spoken....gutted
They could have made room for Seumalo at $8 million a year. He should have been more of a priority than another wide receiver like Campbell whose make $5 million a year.
Now you're moving the goalposts. If he's not willing to pay, the guy won't want to come here.
Quote:
Embarrassing Giants games I've ever seen. So bad in fact that I turned the game off at halftime, the first time in my history of watching Giants opening games. All aspects of the game were bad, nothing positive to hold on to. One last thought, Evan Neal and Kayvan Thibodeaux do not get contract extensions when their time comes up. In my opinion both are empty uniforms.
I was almost in the same boat. I didn't turn it off, but I was plenty "happy" to turn my attention to helping my son with some HW. My older son used to chastise me when he was little any time I would say that's the ball game after a terrible, back breaking play, regardless of score or time left. In a way, his child optimism helped with some of those lean years. But, last night, after the pick 6 when I asked him, is that the ball game right there, his I don't know response was shocking. It certainly did nothing to keep me from thinking we were done.
I turned it off after Dallas made it 26-0 in the second quarter. I've never done that during an opening regular season game.
To think they were going to magically be able to block them this year was foolish.
The OL is still unexplainably bad, as it has been for 10+ years now. Even with an All Pro LT.
I turned it off after Dallas made it 26-0 in the second quarter. I've never done that during an opening regular season game.
Same and I have NEVER done that in 45 years of watching the Giants. This was the first time that my son wanted to sit down and watch a football game with his dad. He has had ZERO interest in sports until now...
You know how bad it was..
It reminded me of being 12 years old and watching " The Fumble " with my dad and crying because they didnt just kneel down. That pain never went away until we won in 1986.
I dont want my kid to go through the pain I went through during the 70's
Quote:
I’m sure Schoen tried to improve the guard play.
Now you're moving the goalposts. If he's not willing to pay, the guy won't want to come here.
It’s not moving the goalposts. They had limited resources to improve the team this offseason. They couldn’t get into bidding wars for guards. How do we know they didn’t offer guards contracts and they preferred other destinations?
The previous guy, who some on here wanted to pat on the back, left the team devoid of talent in a lot of areas. They’re not going to be fixed all in two offseason. That being said the team shouldn’t be embarrassed like they were last night. Multiple things can be true.
We can't block :(
I actually felt good going into this game that it would at least be competitive. And the first drive was vindicating that feeling. A few thoughts:
* they answered the asshole Collinsworth's question re how to slow the DAL pass rush on the first drive: RUN THE BALL RIGHT AT IT! I thought they panicked after the blocked kick and went pass happy too soon. There was no need to do that at 6-0.
* the OL was obviously atrocious, Neal struggled, looked like Schmitz had some jitters, AT tried to tough it out. But what really struck me was how SLOOOOOOW their Guards are. Every time they tried to pull or pass off a defender to a G Bredeson and Glowinski were too slow getting there. Why keep doing it? And no help given to the OTs when you have 2 TEs? If AT is really hurt they are in trouble.
* Say all you want about Neal and he had a tough night, but where the fuck was Thibodeaux? It was like he didn't even play. Total zero.
* Can we dispense with the Wink is a Mad Genius talk? His D sucked and his famous pass rush did shit. Dak had all day to throw.
* will they ever have competent Special Teams again in our lifetimes
I hope they have relief pitcher closer type short memories, because a game game like that could be a season killer if not handled right mentally.
Quote:
In comment 16199754 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
For some fans, Barkley is above the fray. He always gets a pass.
Not from my keyboard he doesn't.
Let me re-frame this in a hypothetical. If Barkley caught the ball, turned up field, SAW the defender coming to brace for the hit, I would be on your side if Barkley coughed the ball up in that situation...
No neded to reframe. Barkley had the ball in his hands - if he loses it or ti goes right through his hands - it's on him. No need for excuse making. This is undisputable no matter how hard you try to reframe it.
Barkley is a pro player. His responsibility is to hold onto the football.
Yes I thought that was a fumble. He caught it and made a "football move" as they say.
Quote:
In comment 16200285 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
I’m sure Schoen tried to improve the guard play.
Now you're moving the goalposts. If he's not willing to pay, the guy won't want to come here.
It’s not moving the goalposts. They had limited resources to improve the team this offseason. They couldn’t get into bidding wars for guards. How do we know they didn’t offer guards contracts and they preferred other destinations?
The previous guy, who some on here wanted to pat on the back, left the team devoid of talent in a lot of areas. They’re not going to be fixed all in two offseason. That being said the team shouldn’t be embarrassed like they were last night. Multiple things can be true.
Kafka continued to try plays that took time to develop and involved pulling OL who are too slow to make their assignments against a faster team. Was this a shock?
This. Thibs will be fine.
Same.
This. Thibs will be fine.
Based on what, exactly?
Agree. We need to bring back the practice of decimation. Or at least impose team-wide yubitsume. Or demand the players forfeit their gamechecks.
Think I’ll start a change.org petition.