To this point, he really isn't showing any more than Lorenzo Carter did. An occasional great play every so often punctuating long periods of invisibility. Where is the explosive playmaker he was supposed to be?
the next biggest disappointment for me was the play of the front 7.
You would figure that the Giants DL would watch the guys from Dallas and say to each other - "We gotta go out there and dominate like they are!" They didn't.
This isn't your older brother's Dallas OL either - they aren't world beaters like before. They got no pressure - that's a problem I didn't expect to see.
the offensive tackle as Thibs came in low just put his hands on his upper back and shoved him into the ground. There is a real lack of physicality. Throw in Neal and the lastest draft grades are dropping.
the next biggest disappointment for me was the play of the front 7.
You would figure that the Giants DL would watch the guys from Dallas and say to each other - "We gotta go out there and dominate like they are!" They didn't.
This isn't your older brother's Dallas OL either - they aren't world beaters like before. They got no pressure - that's a problem I didn't expect to see.
Bingo.
Not defending KT here, but where was everyone else too?
and defense as whole after the Giants offense and special teams gift wrapped points and premium field position. Honestly, I can't think of anything but our offensive line today. But, yeah, he doesn't seem to be living up to his draft position.
To me, KT was the biggest disappointment. He was not the worst out there by any stretch. But, I had expectations of a huge game from him; a dominating game. I expected a Parsons-like game with one OL out and another hurt. Instead, he did nothing. Kid gloves off. He's not a rookie and he's not nursing an injury. This should have been a coming out party for him. He should have been dictating the action in a way Dallas was, to actually give us a shot. Instead nothing.
Yes, the rest of this vaunted D was bad. But, he was one guy I expected to set the tone. I guess, in a way, he did. It just wasn't the right tone.
Is it possible to whiff this badly on not one, but 2 first round picks in the same draft?
but in truth, before the defense could settle in this was pretty much a 3 score game.
The biggest contributing factor the defense had in getting to that point was the broken play to Lamb in which Jackson got taken out on a pick play that I still have no idea is legal or not.
oh, don't get me wrong, the entire DL shares blame
Even Dex had a weak game last night. Hell, Riley made the most impressive play by a lineman last night. It was a great TFL but if your sixth round rookie run-stuffer has the standout play of the night, that's not good.
I just singled out KT because he was so hyped after the draft last year and, so far, has really underwhelmed.
I thought he'd play well because this was a national game
he or the rest of the defense did much, but as someone said, the game got out of control very quickly. The offense couldn't move because the OL was so bad. That must have been very discouraging.
Its certainly a rough start. He can still develop into a good pass rusher, but it seems like the top pass rushers show their capability from the get go. We haven't seen that from him. I hope that changes at some point this season
RE: oh, don't get me wrong, the entire DL shares blame
Even Dex had a weak game last night. Hell, Riley made the most impressive play by a lineman last night. It was a great TFL but if your sixth round rookie run-stuffer has the standout play of the night, that's not good.
I just singled out KT because he was so hyped after the draft last year and, so far, has really underwhelmed.
Agreed again.
I know Dallas still has a good OL, even with a starter out. But, with one out and one hurt, that does weaken what is supposed to be one of their strengths. With the depth added on DL and OLB (I hate using the EDGE term), our front 7 was also supposed to be a real strength this year. They were invisible.
everyone whose contract was extended played like crap. Willand Lawrence did do a damn thing. KT can look good at times and then has games where he is totally ineffective.
Has he developed more pass rush tools besides the bull rush? So far, the answer is no.
The bigger issue looks to be Williams, he was invisible and he had a favorable match up last night. Is he done?
Lastly, Ojulari had a solid rookie season and has been injured and ineffective ever since. Maybe they can get more snaps from Basham going forward.
Actually, Ojulari was surprisingly productive rushing the passer last year when he played. The problem was he hardly played. He still ended up with 5 sacks.
what he has done. But, this is kind of why I was never in favor of the trade or the contract we gave him. WE paid him like an elite DT in the middle of a dismal run as a team. So, not only did we overpay him, in my opinion, but we did so when his best years were likely to be wasted. Now, he is a very expensive piece of the D, but is very likely slowing down between age and nagging injuries. He is still expected to be a productive player, but not like a few years ago.
That said, he and Lawrence, especially with improved depth behind them to give breathers, really need to dominate every game regardless of the OL in front of them. This team will have a hard time winnning if that isn't the case.
Dallas to a FG on the First 2 Dallas Offensive drives.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
Well, the issue is the Cowboys had fewer drives than the Giants because of the Giants' screw ups. NY had 12 drives (65 plays). Dallas had 9 drives (55 plays).
Dallas still scored give times on the Giants (three touchdowns drives, two field goal drives).
Dallas to a FG on the First 2 Dallas Offensive drives.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
This is watching the game in a bubble. The two turnovers did happen and they played a big role. Dallas didn't need to force a thing when they got down field because they had the luxury of 2 TDs on the board from their D and ST on the Giants first 2 offensive series. That completely changes the whole complexion of the game.
since Oregon. A pretty good dimension, but nothing elite. Just seems too stiff. So, I never liked spending a high pick on KT.
But everyone was horrible last night. The bad play spread through the team like Covid. Hard to just single out KT.
I believe the Cards are the worst team in the NFL. So, the entire team is going to get a chance right away to exorcise some of last night's demons.
Agree about Cards. And, I don't like to count wins before they happen...but this is not just a game to win. After last night, we have to REALLY beat them.
Needs to be the focus in ‘24. The OL is rightfully getting a lot of shit today but the front 4 on D wasn’t much better. They need another impact edge rusher just as much as OL help.
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
possibly busting (to varying degrees) on two top 7 picks is a real problem that should not get an auto mulligan. He needs to figure this roster building thing out in a hurry. Neal doesn't appear to have any dog in him. Jury is out on KT, and while he's shown to be a more productive player than Neal, is he a top 5 pick difference maker? This whole organization seems stuck in the clutches of failure and it's beyond frustrating that we may be reverting back to the horrendous old days of 2013 - 2021.
The gameplan was out the window by the middle of the 2nd quarter
possibly busting (to varying degrees) on two top 7 picks is a real problem that should not get an auto mulligan. He needs to figure this roster building thing out in a hurry. Neal doesn't appear to have any dog in him. Jury is out on KT, and while he's shown to be a more productive player than Neal, is he a top 5 pick difference maker? This whole organization seems stuck in the clutches of failure and it's beyond frustrating that we may be reverting back to the horrendous old days of 2013 - 2021.
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
thing is he played very well against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. He had 9 pressures in that game against the same opponent.
Giants got very little out of Lawrence, Williams, Ojulari, KT and company.
And Dallas was missing their LG.
as I said on the other thread, when does Wink start getting some shit here and elsewhere? They've given him everything he asked for and more, trading up for Banks, trading for Simmons when they would have been better off trading for OG help. Yet his mad scientist, dial up pressure rep is not being vindicated here.
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
Didn't the Giants play him out of position until last year?
Giants got very little out of Lawrence, Williams, Ojulari, KT and company.
And Dallas was missing their LG.
I think he's soft.
You would figure that the Giants DL would watch the guys from Dallas and say to each other - "We gotta go out there and dominate like they are!" They didn't.
This isn't your older brother's Dallas OL either - they aren't world beaters like before. They got no pressure - that's a problem I didn't expect to see.
You would figure that the Giants DL would watch the guys from Dallas and say to each other - "We gotta go out there and dominate like they are!" They didn't.
This isn't your older brother's Dallas OL either - they aren't world beaters like before. They got no pressure - that's a problem I didn't expect to see.
Bingo.
Not defending KT here, but where was everyone else too?
Yup. They’re still young and learning, but so far that’s a pretty lousy return on 2 top ten picks
Yes, the rest of this vaunted D was bad. But, he was one guy I expected to set the tone. I guess, in a way, he did. It just wasn't the right tone.
Is it possible to whiff this badly on not one, but 2 first round picks in the same draft?
The biggest contributing factor the defense had in getting to that point was the broken play to Lamb in which Jackson got taken out on a pick play that I still have no idea is legal or not.
I just singled out KT because he was so hyped after the draft last year and, so far, has really underwhelmed.
Nope. He was content to stop trying once the score was 16-0.
I just singled out KT because he was so hyped after the draft last year and, so far, has really underwhelmed.
I know Dallas still has a good OL, even with a starter out. But, with one out and one hurt, that does weaken what is supposed to be one of their strengths. With the depth added on DL and OLB (I hate using the EDGE term), our front 7 was also supposed to be a real strength this year. They were invisible.
The bigger issue looks to be Williams, he was invisible and he had a favorable match up last night. Is he done?
Lastly, Ojulari had a solid rookie season and has been injured and ineffective ever since. Maybe they can get more snaps from Basham going forward.
That's the looming cloud that will start to come into view once the initial sting of 40-0 begins to fade.
The bigger issue looks to be Williams, he was invisible and he had a favorable match up last night. Is he done?
Lastly, Ojulari had a solid rookie season and has been injured and ineffective ever since. Maybe they can get more snaps from Basham going forward.
Actually, Ojulari was surprisingly productive rushing the passer last year when he played. The problem was he hardly played. He still ended up with 5 sacks.
That said, he and Lawrence, especially with improved depth behind them to give breathers, really need to dominate every game regardless of the OL in front of them. This team will have a hard time winnning if that isn't the case.
But everyone was horrible last night. The bad play spread through the team like Covid. Hard to just single out KT.
I believe the Cards are the worst team in the NFL. So, the entire team is going to get a chance right away to exorcise some of last night's demons.
obviously 1 game into year 2 the book isn't written on them, but it's tough to see how this turns around.
Dominates the Giants... they've struggled at times with plenty of other teams.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
Citing stats this way without context is silly.
Dallas was up 26-0 in the first quarter. What did you want them to do, drop Dak back to throw deep every play.
the stats of Dallas offense is irrelevant given the circumstances.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
Well, the issue is the Cowboys had fewer drives than the Giants because of the Giants' screw ups. NY had 12 drives (65 plays). Dallas had 9 drives (55 plays).
Dallas still scored give times on the Giants (three touchdowns drives, two field goal drives).
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
But everyone was horrible last night. The bad play spread through the team like Covid. Hard to just single out KT.
I believe the Cards are the worst team in the NFL. So, the entire team is going to get a chance right away to exorcise some of last night's demons.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
Every player sucked
Every coaching decision sucked
Take it and move on.
He blew every pick until Bellinger.
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It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
Those guys need to step in Day One and produce.
Maybe not HoF level, but more than this.
Giants got very little out of Lawrence, Williams, Ojulari, KT and company.
And Dallas was missing their LG.
as I said on the other thread, when does Wink start getting some shit here and elsewhere? They've given him everything he asked for and more, trading up for Banks, trading for Simmons when they would have been better off trading for OG help. Yet his mad scientist, dial up pressure rep is not being vindicated here.
Strahan was a second round pick from Texas Southern who played his high school ball in Germany. He was always supposed to be a project.
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In comment 16200473 ajr2456 said:
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It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
Didn't the Giants play him out of position until last year?