That pretty much sums it up.
What a Sh&t show Neal and Glowinski were. Just absolute disasters. Glowinski was a turnstile. Ezeudu will have plays he blows. I get it. But at least he will have some "on" plays too. I don't see how replacing Glowinski with Ezeudu is not on the table this week. I have never seen an Offensive lineman singlehandedly ruin a gameplan, but he did.
Skinner Offensive Line report - (
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You look around the league, other teams with similar talent find a way to put a credible product on the field.
What the fuck is going on at practice?
Some part of me thinks we did....but I could be wrong.
Imagine him as our right guard all these years.
hard to classify ezeudu and neal as anything other than disappointments based on where they were drafted. players in those ranges should be decent starters day 1 and certainly by year 2.
jms looks better than both already, though in fairness he's also like 2 years older than both.
unlike 2022 they didnt add a bunch of veteran backups either. they trusted their evals and development.
bobby johnson had better get the group playing better quickly or this may be an in-season firing like new england several years ago.
Some part of me thinks we did....but I could be wrong.
Imagine him as our right guard all these years.
they took OBJ 5 picks ahead of martin. and turned OBJ into Dexter Lawrence.
Some part of me thinks we did....but I could be wrong.
Imagine him as our right guard all these years.
If memory serves, DAL took Martin either right before or right after we took OBJ
Some part of me thinks we did....but I could be wrong.
Imagine him as our right guard all these years.
There have been plenty of decent OGs taken in rounds 2 through 5 since Martin.
They need to just go with either Ezeudu or McKethan and bite the bullet. Glowinski is just terrible.
Some part of me thinks we did....but I could be wrong.
Imagine him as our right guard all these years.
yes. to take Beckham. Hated the pick then hate it now.
What do they do, they get elite playmakers. Maybe thats the easier path than creating a Philly OL? There is a style of play that works. These teams have a top, smart QB, and top smart receivers. It really comes down to identifying what is going on and being in the place they absolutely have to be, so the QB can quickly deliver the ball before the rush gets there. They need to be completely on the same page. Doing this consistently slows down the rush.
I would bet this was part of the game plan, and we probably failed at this too. Maybe this is easier than building a top OL (lord knows we have failed with the OL approach for a long time).
You look around the league, other teams with similar talent find a way to put a credible product on the field.
What the fuck is going on at practice?
Seems like we have a systematic organizational issue with oline.
And AT is like a titanium carbon fiber blend gold and diamond plated cam shaft, but the rest of the transmission rusted and fell off. I don't know anything about cars, but you get the point.
They got rid of Hill and made heavy investments in the OL in both FA, one trade and a couple draft picks.
They scored 7 points on offense in the first half of the SB against Philly.
In the second half KC ran 16 times for 116 yards against a NFCE team.
Immediately after the game Reid told the sideline reporter his OL was outstanding. It was.
I am hoping the lack of work in the pre season and overall preparation was not good enough and we see at least a better effort going forward. At least I hope.
Yup. I don't think anyone would argue Jones played well, but I'm not sure how he could possibly be the lowest graded player on offense. I'm not sure what the expectation is with a catastrophic OL breakdown on nearly every dropback.
To make matters worse, when a play is made, there's some other kind of catastrophe on the back end. The first "INT" should have been about a 5 yard reception. Instead it's 7 points going the other way. The 2nd INT was an awful decision, but they were already down 16 (19?) and the way game was going it felt like they were down even more than that. Doesn't excuse it, but a boneheaded throw when trying to just make a positive play of any kind is the kind of thing that happens when a game is spiraling out of control. Then you have the Hodgins fumble.
I'd honestly give Jones and the WRs a basically Incomplete grade for the game. The OL was that much of a shitshow basically from the False Start on.
Neal also did a lot of waist bending in that video, which I assume again is because his feet are too slow to play tackle. I agree with Skinner that he is appears very top heavy on many plays. He looks completely unbalanced.
If you bench Neal, who is your right tackle?
Neal also did a lot of waist bending in that video, which I assume again is because his feet are too slow to play tackle. I agree with Skinner that he is appears very top heavy on many plays. He looks completely unbalanced.
Even with Flowers, at least he flails and lunges, often comically multiple times on one play, and fails. Neal and Glowinski just stand there like slowly shuffling statues.
So if this is true, how did seemingly EVERY draft "expert" as well as NFL scouts and talent evaluators miss out on this???? Its not like the Giants "reached" for Evan Neal; he was a very highly rated top 10 prospect in that draft by pretty much everyone.
What’s it tell us? You not agreeing with the strategy doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
Neal becoming a starter or failing miserably will dictate out 2024 offseason plans for RT. We kind of need to know which he is and the staff is going to use the full season to find out since there’s no one better to turn to anyway.
Some part of me thinks we did....but I could be wrong.
Imagine him as our right guard all these years.
We took Odell over him
Giants fans now: "Why the hell did the Giants draft Evan Neal?"
You can't make this stuff up.
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Evan Neal does not have the physical tools to play RT in the NFL. Not sure he has the agility to play guard either. Should not have drafted an OT who refuses to do any type of testing, either at combine or pro-day.
So if this is true, how did seemingly EVERY draft "expert" as well as NFL scouts and talent evaluators miss out on this???? Its not like the Giants "reached" for Evan Neal; he was a very highly rated top 10 prospect in that draft by pretty much everyone.
I vaguely remember Thibs and Neal were 1 and 2 on Dallas' draft board last year. Dallas obviously knows OL and DL talent. So did everyone just whiff? Are there positional coaching issues? Thibs has flashed, but mostly underwhelmend. It's just wild how bad Neal has been.
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Will the Giant continue to play Neal at RT?? If they do, that tells you a lot about this coaching staff.
If you bench Neal, who is your right tackle?
We can always bring back Ian Allen.
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I am trying to remember if we passed on drafting Martin.
Some part of me thinks we did....but I could be wrong.
Imagine him as our right guard all these years.
We took Odell over him
Giants fans were clamoring for Martin or Donald. Sigh.
Giants fans now: "Why the hell did the Giants draft Evan Neal?"
You can't make this stuff up.
I was personally involved in those conversations.
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Evan Neal does not have the physical tools to play RT in the NFL. Not sure he has the agility to play guard either. Should not have drafted an OT who refuses to do any type of testing, either at combine or pro-day.
So if this is true, how did seemingly EVERY draft "expert" as well as NFL scouts and talent evaluators miss out on this???? Its not like the Giants "reached" for Evan Neal; he was a very highly rated top 10 prospect in that draft by pretty much everyone.
He skipped on field drills at the combine and Alabama's pro day which in hindsight may have been to hide some deficiencies.
A lot of tackles don't pan out, its a huge jump to the NFL.
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In comment 16203071 SomeFan said:
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Evan Neal does not have the physical tools to play RT in the NFL. Not sure he has the agility to play guard either. Should not have drafted an OT who refuses to do any type of testing, either at combine or pro-day.
So if this is true, how did seemingly EVERY draft "expert" as well as NFL scouts and talent evaluators miss out on this???? Its not like the Giants "reached" for Evan Neal; he was a very highly rated top 10 prospect in that draft by pretty much everyone.
I vaguely remember Thibs and Neal were 1 and 2 on Dallas' draft board last year. Dallas obviously knows OL and DL talent. So did everyone just whiff? Are there positional coaching issues? Thibs has flashed, but mostly underwhelmend. It's just wild how bad Neal has been.
I didn't care for Thibs but really wanted Neal, d'oh. A few red flags as others pointed out he didn't combine, his balancing issues were known (with the plan B we move him to guard) , and we were shopping starving. Meh could be specious hindsight over analyzing but seemed like a good idea at the time.
Some part of me thinks we did....but I could be wrong.
Imagine him as our right guard all these years.
Just looked at that draft ('14). Martin went 4 picks after we took OBJ.
Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but we also could've had Aaron Donald, who went the next pick after ours.
Oh well, Martin and Donald never made a one handed catch or peed like a dog or tried to hump a kicking cage (as far as we know). So we had that going for us, for a few yrs.
He has technical and physical deficiencies right now that I don't think he'll overcome.
Snap issues aside, encouraging signs from JMS. Glowsinki's job should be up for grabs
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The question is - why are they playing this bad? This isn't an all-time bad group of OL.
You look around the league, other teams with similar talent find a way to put a credible product on the field.
What the fuck is going on at practice?
Seems like we have a systematic organizational issue with oline.
And AT is like a titanium carbon fiber blend gold and diamond plated cam shaft, but the rest of the transmission rusted and fell off. I don't know anything about cars, but you get the point.
Thing is, AT wasn't even an organizational pick. Reportedly AT happened because Jason Garrett pounded the table for him.
The irony is we tried that too. Will Hernandez is big, mean, and NASTY, with anger issues. But he still couldn't pick up a stunt.
The answer is yes, but I fear the answer would also be yes if you switched Glowinski and Neal in this scenario.
Both guys were absolutely horrid.
In Schoen's brief time here he's used 3 top 70 picks (7, 57, 67) on offensive lineman and made Glowinksi at the time a top 10 paid right guard.
Everyone including Schoen gets it. Why are there a select few posters on this site that spam every thread on the topic as if the Giants don't get it?
I don't see it being a Glowinski issue. Skinner did a great job pointing out how poor Neal's technique is. His footwork is atrocious.
Giants fans now: "Why the hell did the Giants draft Evan Neal?"
You can't make this stuff up.
That’s fair, I was one of those guys, but Neal’s refusal to do individual drills, even at his pro day, should have raised some red flags.
In Schoen's brief time here he's used 3 top 70 picks (7, 57, 67) on offensive lineman and made Glowinksi at the time a top 10 paid right guard.
Everyone including Schoen gets it. Why are there a select few posters on this site that spam every thread on the topic as if the Giants don't get it?
Lack of intelligence and maturity.
Would you trade Dexter Lawrence today for Martin or Donald?
Some part of me thinks we did....but I could be wrong.
Imagine him as our right guard all these years.
To hell with Zach Martin. We passed on Aaron Donald!
He was heavily, heavily discussed on BBI and a lot of people were scared off by his size.
Lack of intelligence and maturity.[/quote]
The Giants have picked 9 offensive lineman with top 100 picks that last decade, and only Thomas has truly worked out.
It's simply not a lack of effort. It's either scouting or coaching.
Giants fans now: "Why the hell did the Giants draft Evan Neal?"
You can't make this stuff up.
I wanted Neal but frankly the organization pays a lot of people to get that decision right — and they’ve been getting the OL decisions wrong for quite sometime. Nothing is going to change until they figure it out.
He was heavily, heavily discussed on BBI and a lot of people were scared off by his size.
And they were all wrong.
Who cares what amateurs wanted before the draft? The paid professionals need to get it right. Fans have every right to be pissed at what's going on.
You know what's "funny"? (And I use quotes because it's really not....) Glow and Neal playing next to each other actually compounds how bad each of them suck. (Both are making the other look even worse.)
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Watching that Neal definitely sucked. But I wonder if he would look any better if he had a competent guard next to him? If Glowinski could maybe attempt a block on the inside it would give Jones the ability to step up and Neal to push the edge rusher past him.
I don't see it being a Glowinski issue. Skinner did a great job pointing out how poor Neal's technique is. His footwork is atrocious.
I don't know if I can call it bad footwork, its more like non-existent footwork.
How can’t we get this right but every other team can? I don’t get it.
Glowinski with about as lazy a game I have seen in a while. He barely wanted to even get his hands up on plays and started throwing his shoulder at the DTs many times. Bench him asap for complete lack of effort.
JMS - I liked what I saw on many snaps.
If they had, that Glowinksi is completely shot would probably have been more obvious.
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Giants fans last year, "You'd be crazy not to draft Neal in the first round if he somehow manages to fall to us. Not drafting him would be a fireable offense."
Giants fans now: "Why the hell did the Giants draft Evan Neal?"
You can't make this stuff up.
That’s fair, I was one of those guys, but Neal’s refusal to do individual drills, even at his pro day, should have raised some red flags.
I think he was genuinely injured so didn't seem a glaring red flag at the time, but there definitely seems to be a blind spot - although the combines are probably the least useful for olinemen.
Giants fans now: "Why the hell did the Giants draft Evan Neal
You can't make this stuff up.
Like clockwork, and if you even bring up the possibility before the actual draft player-X is no sure thing , YOU are the loon.
Who cares what amateurs wanted before the draft? The paid professionals need to get it right. Fans have every right to be pissed at what's going on.
You know what's "funny"? (And I use quotes because it's really not....) Glow and Neal playing next to each other actually compounds how bad each of them suck. (Both are making the other look even worse.)
Nowhere did I argue that fans should not want their draft picks to succeed.
I am merely pointing that YOU GUYS felt the Giants would have been morons to pass on Neal.
Glowinski with about as lazy a game I have seen in a while. He barely wanted to even get his hands up on plays and started throwing his shoulder at the DTs many times. Bench him asap for complete lack of effort.
JMS - I liked what I saw on many snaps.
Agreed on all fronts. Neal isn't a RT.
To my knowledge, if they pull Glowinski then Bredeson moves to RG, and Ezeudu goes to LG. Now you've unsettled 3/5 of the OL and probably with lesser players.
It's one game, stay the course for now.
I was not only told that opinion was stupid, but that the Giants would be stupid if they felt the same way.
Giants fans now: "Why the hell did the Giants draft Evan Neal?"
You can't make this stuff up.
The Giants were in basic need of another Tackle. That draft had several OT prospects worth taking in the top 10, including Neal. The issue wasn't drafting him. It's that he isn't ready for the speed he is getting countered with and then losing focus (missing stunts, forgetting to punch, etc) as things snowball.
You can allow fans to be pissed he isn't playing better. But not that smart to just group them together with different fans that recognized an OT prospect like Neal made sense for the NYG. Right?
I was not only told that opinion was stupid, but that the Giants would be stupid if they felt the same way.
The OL or bust crowd!! Even better is when they post when are the Giants going to invest real resources in the OL. I actually like Neal and still do, but there were also other positions NYG would've been fine to upgrade (eg, Garrett Wilson).
(1) Who was the best OT prospect. (I took the unpopular position that Cross might be the safest guy). Most fans were divided between Neal and Ekwonu (both have struggled at tackle).
(2) that maybe OT might not be the best option with either pick (I was crucified for making that statement). One of the guys I suggested was Garrett Wilson and told that was dumb.
Right now, Neal looks like a bust. That could change. It might not. Honestly, it is still too early to tell. And this is coming from a guy who wasn't thrilled with him at the time.
I was personally involved in those conversations.
I think gratefulhead was agreeing with you. Saying "you don't have to make shit up here," to me means...because here, these discussions actually happen.
If they had, that Glowinksi is completely shot would probably have been more obvious.
It's a pretty good point.
I am still old school and would like to see starters play more in the preseason but that ship has sailed.
And let's face it, practices are even watered down now too so you probably find out in the first quarter of the season what you really have on marginal players.
I feel conned.
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Glowinksi performance supports the position the Giants should play starters in the pre season.
If they had, that Glowinksi is completely shot would probably have been more obvious.
It's a pretty good point.
I am still old school and would like to see starters play more in the preseason but that ship has sailed.
And let's face it, practices are even watered down now too so you probably find out in the first quarter of the season what you really have on marginal players.
It is an excellent point.
The problem is other teams are not playing their starters either.
The NFL has gotten ridiculous about this. The fear of injury has turned the first month of the season into shoddy football.
I feel conned.
THIS.
It was the same when the Giants drafted Derek Brown and Ron Dayne.
(1) Who was the best OT prospect. (I took the unpopular position that Cross might be the safest guy). Most fans were divided between Neal and Ekwonu (both have struggled at tackle).
(2) that maybe OT might not be the best option with either pick (I was crucified for making that statement). One of the guys I suggested was Garrett Wilson and told that was dumb.
Right now, Neal looks like a bust. That could change. It might not. Honestly, it is still too early to tell. And this is coming from a guy who wasn't thrilled with him at the time.
And yet both debates seem fine so why are you extrapolating this to the entire board. Just because you ran into some fans that were hot for an OT and maybe another that didn't want a WR doesn't mean you or they were dumb. Both positions had some good prospects in the top 10 or so of that draft.
Neal was bad last year and bad on Sunday. But to think that #7 investment in a RT has run its course and is over already is simply being short-sighted and not really a poster worth reading. Besides its Sept, there is no Offensive Tackle tree that we can turn to and pick one of a branch and plug in as starter. Neal is going to be back out there until the coaches see a better option and/or Neal gives up himself which isn't happening.
Many of the ones complaining about Neal now said it would be dumb not to draft him.
It's stuff like this that I wish everyone would remember when the draft rolls around again, but that lesson is never learned.
To my knowledge, if they pull Glowinski then Bredeson moves to RG, and Ezeudu goes to LG. Now you've unsettled 3/5 of the OL and probably with lesser players.
It's one game, stay the course for now.
I don't think they'll make any changes after one game, but I would bench Glowinski. He was very bad and the Cardinals really hassled Howell last Sunday. Bredeson or Lemieux also might help Neal a little. I'd actually like to see Lemieux at LG and Bredeson at RG.
At a minimum, I hope Glowinski is quickly pulled if his play is just as bad on Sunday. And what does it say about Ezeudu that he can't beat out Glowinski?
The bigger problem is what happens with AT. If he's out, then who plays LT? I assume that would be Peart, but he might be out as well. If that happens, then I guess Ezeudu would play LT. Good luck to Jones in that situation.
I wanted Neal at #7, but would have been happy with Cross or G. Wilson. I thought it was a situation where because we were picking so high and weren't looking for a QB, that we had a high likelihood of getting two good players no matter who we selected.
I think we all would like to see Ezeudu starting because of the potential he offers but winning is more important this week than player development.
I'd expect the OL to drilled non-stop from now on to learn and demonstrate they can identify and pick up stunts. They're still dreadful at it, and teams are just throwing twists and delayed stunts at them, eg 2 on 2 stunts.
Many of the ones complaining about Neal now said it would be dumb not to draft him.
It's stuff like this that I wish everyone would remember when the draft rolls around again, but that lesson is never learned.
Yes, you are venting. Despite the troubles Neal is having in the NFL so far, he wasn't the wrong pick at the time.
40-0 on day 1. No one is happy. But Neal is still the 2023 Right Tackle for now, no matter what.
Neal needs time to develop. He isn't good right now but he has played 14 NFL games. 14.
We've gone through a number of different GMs, head coaches, offensive line coaches, dozens of players. And yet we're stuck in neutral.
Glowinski is a guy who was brought in not because he was a stud, but because he was a reliable veteran type. Think Billy Ard or Kevin Boothe if you will. He was a bit too up and down for me last year, but he wasn't a disaster. He's also not old.
So WTF just happened?
Many of the ones complaining about Neal now said it would be dumb not to draft him.
It's stuff like this that I wish everyone would remember when the draft rolls around again, but that lesson is never learned.
Is it unfair to like the pick of Neal (who was widely regarded as the top OL), while being frustruated with his play thus far?
I'm venting at those who now claiming the Giants were stupid for drafting Neal in the first place.
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I'm simply venting.
Many of the ones complaining about Neal now said it would be dumb not to draft him.
It's stuff like this that I wish everyone would remember when the draft rolls around again, but that lesson is never learned.
Is it unfair to like the pick of Neal (who was widely regarded as the top OL), while being frustruated with his play thus far?
Not at all. That's where I am to a good degree.
What's unfair is to group all NYG fans together in how they perceived that pick then, and how some of them or others are speaking out now. There are very few common denominators when it comes to NYG football opinions.
We've gone through a number of different GMs, head coaches, offensive line coaches, dozens of players. And yet we're stuck in neutral.
Glowinski is a guy who was brought in not because he was a stud, but because he was a reliable veteran type. Think Billy Ard or Kevin Boothe if you will. He was a bit too up and down for me last year, but he wasn't a disaster. He's also not old.
So WTF just happened?
He was actually pretty bad last year. Worst lineman on the team of the starters.
Hard to believe he got a 3 year deal after seeinghim play last year.
I'm venting at those who now claiming the Giants were stupid for drafting Neal in the first place.
Got you.
I have the same reaction you do: seems to be exasperation with the failure to fix the OL. The last 5 years of Reese, almost the entire Gettleman regime, and now Schoen.
I get OL play is down in college, but damn. I'd take a 20-25th ranked OL. Jones can work with this. But I don't remember an OL performance this bad either. It was unreal.
I'd expect the OL to drilled non-stop from now on to learn and demonstrate they can identify and pick up stunts. They're still dreadful at it, and teams are just throwing twists and delayed stunts at them, eg 2 on 2 stunts.
I don't have confidence in Ezeudu. He hasn't been able to beat out Bredeson or Glowinski, not as a rookie, but in his second year, despite every chance to do so. I also don't have much faith in Lemieux. He didn't beat out Glowinski either. But could either really be worse than Glowinski? He was that bad. Sy in his game review said that was likely the worst perfornance by the right side of the Giants OL he has ever seen. Lemieux is also healthy right now. At an absolute minimum, they need to be prepared to bench Glowinski early in the game if he continues to play as badly as he did on Sunday night.
As I also said, I think their inability to pick up stunts and twists is more physical than mental. They see it but their slow feet prevent them from reacting quickly enough, which leads to bad hand placement and waist bending.
Except for Thomas, we have a lot of OL with slow feet and poor lateral ability and mobility.
It's moot point. There is no fallback option. It would be better to give Neal more time and make sure one way or the other than to surrender to Peart (who is also getting an MRI).
Even if the Giants signed someone off of the street, he doesn't know the playbook or system.
I have it paused at 5:27 here but may need to back-track 1 second to see what I'm talking about.
Here you have Parsons set up out wide, and Neal uses his left hand to try to re-direct #92 Dorance Armstrong inside to Glowinski, and as you can see, at the start of this play, all of his weight is on his left foot inside, when Parsons has a wide set outside.
Now Neal has the task of coming from that position and trying to get back into a position to block Parsons, the best and most explosive edge he's probably going to face all year. It's an impossible task. He needs to be 100% focused on Parsons unless Parsons goes inside to stunt. Neal needs to focus on getting his depth, not helping Glowinski.
You notice that Neal has no TE help or RB help behind him, so this is Micah Parsons just licking his chops, he's going to win this rep 100 times out of 100. You can't start your pass set like this and win against Micah Parsons, I don't care who you are.
Why did he try to give Armstrong a jab here? Is it the OL call? Did the protection call for this? I have no idea, but that's as bad a situation you can put yourself in at the start of this snap against maybe the best edge in football.
The good news is he doesn't have to match-up against Micah Parsons every week.
Other thing I noticed is he needs to sink his hips more and get a better anchor.
Neal needs to clean up a lot, but it's all technique and coaching. He has all the ability to be a great RT in his body and toolset. So what I'll be looking for is some progress and work with Bobby Johnson on improving in these areas. The time to panic is not now.
If Neal looks terrible and we're talking about this in week 12, then you have to be really concerned. But right now, I'm not concerned. Knock on wood this will be by far his worst game of the season.
(1) Who was the best OT prospect. (I took the unpopular position that Cross might be the safest guy). Most fans were divided between Neal and Ekwonu (both have struggled at tackle).
(2) that maybe OT might not be the best option with either pick (I was crucified for making that statement). One of the guys I suggested was Garrett Wilson and told that was dumb.
Right now, Neal looks like a bust. That could change. It might not. Honestly, it is still too early to tell. And this is coming from a guy who wasn't thrilled with him at the time.
I was a Neal guy but I wouldn't have told anyone that Wilson was done, he was my favorite receiver in the draft and I just loved him.
My ideal draft was Sauce and Neal. But as has been mentioned, Andrew Thomas took awhile to make the leap. Patience still advised with Neal. And that's the hard thing for us fans, because these games matter, and we want it to happen right now.
PFF had him very well rated in limited action on Sunday. Was garbage time, so who knows.
The issue was this year. They saw how he played, and they had no contingency plan in the event that he did not improve. They also saw how poorly Glowinksi played and had no contingency plan. They could have at least keep Phillips. Better yet, they would have invested another pick and/or picked up a FA. The front office was obsessed with speed and weapons. Some of the money or resources we have tied up in Shepard, Campbell, Waller, Slayton, etc could have been used to shore up the line. Not necessarily a first-round pick, but something more...even with JMS.
It seems like the speed obsession carried over into the game planning. They were unable to adjust to limited pass protection by going big and running more. Even the line calls were designed to be speed-oriented with traps and pulls to pick off the DL. Didn't work.
The logical person would be Neal. And it would be hysterical if Neal had a breakout game against Arizona at LT. It is possible he might feel more comfortable at Left Tackle (or Left Guard, both positions he played at Alabama).
Oh, and what's being left out of these discussions is how good the Cowboys rush is. They are going to make a LOT of teams look bad this year. Our line may not be as bad as we think, though we are going to have problems with the Eagles, '9ers and Cowboys rushes.
I feel conned.
I was right there with you.
Especially after they drafted Thibs at 5 (I never was that high on him), I prayed that Neal would still be available at 7.
Both look like overdrafts right now. Still very early to tell, but that's all I have to work with.
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that Ezeudu has a high ceiling other than the fact that we hear it over and over on BBI? Maybe the guy is no better than he looks
PFF had him very well rated in limited action on Sunday. Was garbage time, so who knows.
Yeah, he rated well. 14 snaps on Offense. I don't know the breakdown, but he filled in at LT part of the time. Maybe we'll seem him at LT again Sunday if LT and Peart are injured.
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Why isn't it OK for people to expect the Giants to draft good players in the top 10?
Who cares what amateurs wanted before the draft? The paid professionals need to get it right. Fans have every right to be pissed at what's going on.
You know what's "funny"? (And I use quotes because it's really not....) Glow and Neal playing next to each other actually compounds how bad each of them suck. (Both are making the other look even worse.)
Nowhere did I argue that fans should not want their draft picks to succeed.
I am merely pointing that YOU GUYS felt the Giants would have been morons to pass on Neal.
And that matters.....why? None of us are professional NFL scouts that are getting paid to evaluate players.
No, I'm making fun of people like you.
It doesn't matter. We can all have our opinions from the outside, and we can change our minds when the facts are in. Nothing wrong with it. I personally wanted Neal and was fine if he couldn't play T, because I believed he would make an excellent G (worst case scenario). And that might be the case. But who really gives a sh#t what I or anyone else thought before the draft?
The bottom line is - the Giants front office is accountable for drafting good players, especially in the top 10. It does little good for any of us outsiders to beat our chest whether we were right or wrong.
The fact is - Neal stinks right now. And that means the people in charge are making bad decisions.
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So you're beating your chest because you didn't want Neal. Now I get it. Cool?
No, I'm making fun of people like you.
Making fun of me for doing what? Get over yourself. Everyone's right and wrong. We're all amateurs here with limited information.
You're being a complete dick now.
But obviously, Glowinski is in the 2nd year of a 3 year deal, and the cap hit this year is $8.35M, with a dead cap number of $8.95M. That kind of dictates him to be a starter, and you just can't pay a bunch of OGs. The Giants can get out of this deal after this season with only a $1.5M cap hit.
Hopefully he rights the ship.
I can recognize my dickiness, can you?
You're unhinged.
The logical person would be Neal. And it would be hysterical if Neal had a breakout game against Arizona at LT. It is possible he might feel more comfortable at Left Tackle (or Left Guard, both positions he played at Alabama).
Oh, and what's being left out of these discussions is how good the Cowboys rush is. They are going to make a LOT of teams look bad this year. Our line may not be as bad as we think, though we are going to have problems with the Eagles, '9ers and Cowboys rushes.
You're unhinged.
So no agreement?
Gotcha.
Moving on...
The logical person would be Neal. And it would be hysterical if Neal had a breakout game against Arizona at LT. It is possible he might feel more comfortable at Left Tackle (or Left Guard, both positions he played at Alabama).
Oh, and what's being left out of these discussions is how good the Cowboys rush is. They are going to make a LOT of teams look bad this year. Our line may not be as bad as we think, though we are going to have problems with the Eagles, '9ers and Cowboys rushes.
I don't think that's being left out of the discussion. But the reality is those 3 teams are 5 games on the schedule. Barring a shocker, that's 0-5 right there. Not good.
Nobody in the pre-draft scouting industry that I've seen said he has slow footwork. Well-above average athleticism was mentioned across the board, some saying "special" regarding his athleticism.
Top-heavy is a term used only because of technique. He played top-heavy at times, but he just needs to sink his hips more. He is NOT a slow-footed tackle. The areas of improvement are technique-related, but he has elite tools. The power, foot quickness, strength, wingspan, hand size, overall size...all either above average to elite.
His balance in pass sets and consistency of technique (playing too high is an example) are an issue. They are correctable.
So .. agreement?
Gotcha.
Moving on...
It's so nice seeing people on BBI coming together to work on issues
Well there you have it. You based this on a handful of plays from Skinner's youtube. Ok. You should watch more of him. Try his tape against Indy late last year.
Although there’s little reason for hope based on what he’s done on the field, I’ll wait out the first quarter of the season with hope that this line was in no way ready to play against the Dallas defense.
If so, we must assume Thomas, Bredeson, Schmitz, Glow, Neal are the guys that have earned their starts.
They are not going to move Neal.
We've gone through a number of different GMs, head coaches, offensive line coaches, dozens of players. And yet we're stuck in neutral.
Glowinski is a guy who was brought in not because he was a stud, but because he was a reliable veteran type. Think Billy Ard or Kevin Boothe if you will. He was a bit too up and down for me last year, but he wasn't a disaster. He's also not old.
So WTF just happened?
Same thing happened with Zeitler, the year after he left.. he was all approaching all-pro. Yeah, I'm not sure what NY does to OL.
To Dallas credit they kept doing the same things - wide DE and move Parsons inside. They put the onus on the offense to adjust and they couldn’t. Why change what works
You can find this yourself with any pre-draft writeups.
You can look at his mockdraftable profile.
Google it. Look at respected draft analysts. I'm not going to give you a comprehensive read from all the study I did on him over the last 2 years. But you can start here:
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/04/18/new-york-giants-2022-nfl-draft-preview-offensive-tackles/
Sy nailed it.
We've gone through a number of different GMs, head coaches, offensive line coaches, dozens of players. And yet we're stuck in neutral.
Glowinski is a guy who was brought in not because he was a stud, but because he was a reliable veteran type. Think Billy Ard or Kevin Boothe if you will. He was a bit too up and down for me last year, but he wasn't a disaster. He's also not old.
So WTF just happened?
I can't really think of the last guy we brought in that was good. We made that trade for an all pro guard once, I think from the Browns, but then had to get rid of him over salary issues. Probably because of Kenny Golloday.
Remember that FA Center we signed from SF a decade back, David Baas. He fell off fast too. We are snake bitten on the offensive line. Whats behind Glowinski might be worse and we might see it soon, but at least Ezeudu has a ceiling and a future here. If Neal doesn't look like an RT by end of season the Giants ought to move him inside and go RT shopping/drafting.
Yup. We're not getting any help from outside the building. There is no one. The Seahawks just signed 41 year old Jason Peters. The current OL either plays better or it will be a very poor season IMO, despite all the "weapons" we added for Jones in FA and the draft.
i really really hate assistant coaches who talk tough with light resumes and then go on to suck.
I said you could start with Sy's review, who didn't specifically mention foot quickness. I also said you could review other tape than that of a handful of plays on Skinner's review.
I also don't think he was slow-footed in that game, I think that's your interpretation of what you saw, and I don't think you know what you're looking at. His issues are balance and technique-related, and the two are linked.
Also, Sy gave Neal an 87 grade. That's a Pro Bowl projection, and it was tied for the 2nd highest grade of any player he graded in the 2022 draft class, tied with Aidan Hutchinson and Derrick Stingley Jr.
Do you think there's a world where Sy is giving a slow-footed tackle a Pro Bowl projection grade?
You can look at a lot more analyst reports than Sy's, I haven't seen one yet that didn't give him a plus athleticism grade, which yes, means he can move for a man of his size.
Of course scouting is an inexact science. I'm not the only one touting that, though. Not by a long shot.
But hey, you do you. You are saying his issues are not correctable, and he has limitations that will prevent him from ever being a good player. I strongly disagree. Time will determine who was right.
I would like to hear opinions of players who have a broad sense of the state of the game and these type of failed experiences.
Has anyone on this board played D1 with an idea to Guage vs the comments of others ?