On their podcast, “Bleav In Giants”, my apologies I do not know how to link it.
Banks, who has sometimes been dismissed here as a mouth piece for the team, was anything but during this review. Some of his takes:
- Daniel Jones showed a lack of mental toughness
- The offensive line sent out an invitation to the rest of the league “to come
after us”
- Ojulari got blocked by a wide receiver during one of the touchdown runs!
Banks commented that wide receiver would be missing the next game if that
happened to him
- Jones should not have been in the game at the end, Papa agreed
- Jets with that defense can win a bunch of games
I ve always valued Banks opinions on the team, this is an example of why.
Again my apologies for not knowing how to link the cast.
Banks & Papa - ( New Window )
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
I hate to say it, but I will with the caveat that it was just one game...it had shades of Joe Judge type decision making.
Randall did that to more than a few guys .....
That had nothing to do with Banks. That was one of the single greatest plays I've seen anyone make. Cunningham was like Gumby on that plan, Banks did everything correctly.
Cmon, we’re going to disparage Banks for his opinion?
Thanks, figured someone would help. I can post different links, Sorry don’t know how to do a podcast
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
100% both accounts
I hate to say it, but I will with the caveat that it was just one game...it had shades of Joe Judge type decision making.
It is as basic as simply sticking with the run THAT WAS working. It was almost like they had to PROVE the O passing attack was better vs simply doing what you do well RPO & short passing to assist the QB & OL.
Giants got down 16-0 qquick and Dallas basiclaly played oress man coverage the rrst of the way taking away any short passe, dline just pinned their ears back and didnt care about anything but rushing the passer, no fakes or motion was going to stop that..
Jones basically had to throw into tight windows in a monsoon or eat it..
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
There are multiple members of Giants State Media. Banks included.
I hate to say it, but I will with the caveat that it was just one game...it had shades of Joe Judge type decision making.
THIS !!!
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guy that Randell Cunningham bounced off of for a TD.
That had nothing to do with Banks. That was one of the single greatest plays I've seen anyone make. Cunningham was like Gumby on that plan, Banks did everything correctly.
110%
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but to make matters worse, they were calling designed QB sweeps with him, down 33-0 in the pouring rain.
I hate to say it, but I will with the caveat that it was just one game...it had shades of Joe Judge type decision making.
It is as basic as simply sticking with the run THAT WAS working. It was almost like they had to PROVE the O passing attack was better vs simply doing what you do well RPO & short passing to assist the QB & OL.
Agreed. They should have run it until they couldn't. The OL was getting a good push for run blocking. It also negates their pass rush. Just one of the many head scratching components to Sunday night.
And truthfully, you have to hope he’s right because the alternative is that Dallas is 40-0 better than us and I don’t believe that’s the case.
Best case scenario is week 1 NYG took some things for granted and then the game snowballed due to some crazy plays and some weather.
That’s what I hope anyway.
And truthfully, you have to hope he’s right because the alternative is that Dallas is 40-0 better than us and I don’t believe that’s the case.
Best case scenario is week 1 NYG took some things for granted and then the game snowballed due to some crazy plays and some weather.
That’s what I hope anyway.
+1
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guy that Randell Cunningham bounced off of for a TD.
That had nothing to do with Banks. That was one of the single greatest plays I've seen anyone make. Cunningham was like Gumby on that plan, Banks did everything correctly.
Exactly right. He was liek an acrobat jumping over and around Carl almost at the same time
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In comment 16204122 Capt. Don said:
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but to make matters worse, they were calling designed QB sweeps with him, down 33-0 in the pouring rain.
I hate to say it, but I will with the caveat that it was just one game...it had shades of Joe Judge type decision making.
It is as basic as simply sticking with the run THAT WAS working. It was almost like they had to PROVE the O passing attack was better vs simply doing what you do well RPO & short passing to assist the QB & OL.
Agreed. They should have run it until they couldn't. The OL was getting a good push for run blocking. It also negates their pass rush. Just one of the many head scratching components to Sunday night.
BINGO. I said it at the time and wrote it yesterday. I really think Daboll/Kafka panicked. There was no reason to abandon the run down 0-6 with 55 minutes to play.
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Dottino is.
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
There are multiple members of Giants State Media. Banks included.
Even when you see evidence to the contrary you stick with that take. Ok then.
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In comment 16204131 MotownGIANTS said:
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In comment 16204122 Capt. Don said:
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but to make matters worse, they were calling designed QB sweeps with him, down 33-0 in the pouring rain.
I hate to say it, but I will with the caveat that it was just one game...it had shades of Joe Judge type decision making.
It is as basic as simply sticking with the run THAT WAS working. It was almost like they had to PROVE the O passing attack was better vs simply doing what you do well RPO & short passing to assist the QB & OL.
Agreed. They should have run it until they couldn't. The OL was getting a good push for run blocking. It also negates their pass rush. Just one of the many head scratching components to Sunday night.
BINGO. I said it at the time and wrote it yesterday. I really think Daboll/Kafka panicked. There was no reason to abandon the run down 0-6 with 55 minutes to play.
The games they won last year, the run game was a key factor in each of those games. If your O-Line is struggling in pass blocking, then let them get their feet under them and push the LOS.
Giants got down 16-0 qquick and Dallas basiclaly played oress man coverage the rrst of the way taking away any short passe, dline just pinned their ears back and didnt care about anything but rushing the passer, no fakes or motion was going to stop that..
Jones basically had to throw into tight windows in a monsoon or eat it..
I think it was the perfect storm. Dallas is not a team you can play from behind on. That plus the rain things snowballed.
Hmmm... how much mental toughness is a QB supposed to have when the opposing defense is in his face when the ball is snapped?
I'd like to have seen a young Carl Banks take a few snaps Sunday night and see his mental toughness.
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guy that Randell Cunningham bounced off of for a TD.
That had nothing to do with Banks. That was one of the single greatest plays I've seen anyone make. Cunningham was like Gumby on that plan, Banks did everything correctly.
Careful, some people here may not know who Gumby is sadly enough lol
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which many analysts dont seem to want to mention is they played in a mpnsoon in the 2nd half..
Giants got down 16-0 qquick and Dallas basiclaly played oress man coverage the rrst of the way taking away any short passe, dline just pinned their ears back and didnt care about anything but rushing the passer, no fakes or motion was going to stop that..
Jones basically had to throw into tight windows in a monsoon or eat it..
I think it was the perfect storm. Dallas is not a team you can play from behind on. That plus the rain things snowballed.
What is most disconcerting is how they were never able to shift the momentum back in the game after the blocked FG. Not at any point did a player or unit step up and make something meaningful happen and give the team a jolt. Not even a slight one.
They just let Dallas keep taking it to them in all three phases of the game into the second quarter and after halftime.
Eli had a tendency to do that too. A lot of QBs do. When nothing is working, they try and force a play. Whatever. They lose the game 34-0 instead of 40-0.
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In comment 16204119 DefenseWins said:
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Dottino is.
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
There are multiple members of Giants State Media. Banks included.
Even when you see evidence to the contrary you stick with that take. Ok then.
Must be difficult to operate without realizing multiple things can be true simultaneously.
Seriously, 1 play 40 years ago? And it was a great play by Cunningham.
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I think Banks is referring to a handful of decisions where Jones tried to force a throw, rather than throw it away or keep it and run. There were also plays where Jones ran before the route concept took shape.
Eli had a tendency to do that too. A lot of QBs do. When nothing is working, they try and force a play. Whatever. They lose the game 34-0 instead of 40-0.
This is what Bad Daniel does, is the point. His margin for error and regression is slim, no one wants to see him slip backwards at a crucial time for the Giants. The whole team has a slim margin for error against the better teams. Yes, it was a bad night and they happen, especially in poor weather. But, let's not simply punt it out of mind.
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
Banks is a different kind of mouthpiece for the team. Dottino is a propagandist. I think Banks basically has free reign to speak as he wants about the organization, but from time to time he absolutely will do the team's bidding and for that reason is generally the best public barometer as to how the front office and/or ownership views a situation.
I think the strongest recent example was the Toney situation. A few weeks before the trade, Banks was in public making some cryptic comments about his "injury", practice habits, and whether it was realistic for us to expect to see him on the field. Once the trade happened, I went back to some of his remarks, and it was obvious all those tea leaves pointed to the team actively trying to unload him, and there's no way Banks didn't have the inside line on it with the blessing of the FO to go public.
One new player in three is not replacing the interior.
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In comment 16204186 JonC said:
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I think Banks is referring to a handful of decisions where Jones tried to force a throw, rather than throw it away or keep it and run. There were also plays where Jones ran before the route concept took shape.
Eli had a tendency to do that too. A lot of QBs do. When nothing is working, they try and force a play. Whatever. They lose the game 34-0 instead of 40-0.
This is what Bad Daniel does, is the point. His margin for error and regression is slim, no one wants to see him slip backwards at a crucial time for the Giants. The whole team has a slim margin for error against the better teams. Yes, it was a bad night and they happen, especially in poor weather. But, let's not simply punt it out of mind.
Reality is I don't recall seeing a worse OL game. The coaching was atrocious as well and didn't do anything to minimize the damage of the horrendous OL play. You're going to see "Bad Daniel" or "Bad any QB" when they are running for their life like that. All I care after a joke of a game like that is that Jones didn't have the same result as Aaron Rodgers.
Slim margin of error against better teams? Not only that, but Sunday night showed the Giants can't compete against the better teams that dominate the line of scrimmage: the Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers, etc. Unless something drastically improves, they have absolutely no shot against those teams. This is why I wanted a Sweeney (or other blocking TE) kept over Cager.
They need to do things like 2 TE sets against some of these teams, with Bellinger and another blocking TE. Stop pulling so much. The Giants OL was way slower than the Cowboys D. They'd be in the backfield before the pulling OL would be at their spot.
While we may see some improvement from JMS and Neal due to their youth, the Giants' talent up front won't improve that much to be able to go man to man with the pass rush of these teams. They need to do other things. Run the ball more (which they did well on the first drive of the game, but then inexplicably abandoned), 2 TE sets, stop pulling etc.
Giants had horrendous OL, horrendous, Daboll, and horrendous Kafka, but somehow "good Daniel" is supposed to show up in all that shit.
The 4th blocking TE is on the NFI List.
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I would have kept 4 TEs and activated 3. Teams with a good pass rush, I activate the blocking TE over Cager
The 4th blocking TE is on the NFI List.
Sign another one.
It's not that simple.
It's not that simple.
Huge difference between finding 4 quality OL off the street and finding a blocking TE. Sweeney is making the vet min I believe.
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
Plus 1
On Dottino I listen to him on Monday, he is definitely a mouthpiece for the team.
Everyone after Sunday night has a right to say however they feel. Dottino kept trying to say it was wrong to jump to conclusions after one game which he has the right to do so however it really was about we the fans buying into believing that this team was much better than last year. He kept talking about camp and preseason….WTF. We were shut out…..take the calllers message and acknowledge that they can say whatever they want after Sundays disgraceful actions.
The rest of your post I tend to agree with, there's plenty to go around.
That's 8 player. Plus the QB. Leaving only 2 options.
1. Run, which Glowinski and Neal are both decent enough at that they don't need the additional help.
or
2. Force quick throws into tight coverage that the DBs can jump routes
Adding a 4th TE is way down on the priority list for fixing what we saw Sunday
Your point does remind me that this team may lack a classic goon/fiery guy to get in people's faces. Eli wasn't really that guy but I really appreciated Plaxico yelling at the oline when they were getting creamed during that 2006 classic at the Linc. Of course they rallied shortly afterward. Jacobs/Strahan/Shockey all took turns both playing heel to the opposing team/fans and firing up their teammates (though in Shockey's case that frequently swung to the detrimental end).
I'll always remember my Eagles-fan friend saying "wow the Giants are not boring for once" when Jacobs threw the ball at the playclock in the Dallas playoff game.
It’s good to ses Banks taking the team to task. Silence from the team is deafening. Let’s hope we don’t see a repeat of all the recent coaches’ second years.
good question. they definitely saw something in the way Giants line up for FGs. They were in Gano's face on that miss as well.
I’m glad he’s ripping them. He speaks the truth
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(hard to believe it is at this point), play a 6th OL as a blocking TE along with Bellinger. Waller out wide.
That's 8 player. Plus the QB. Leaving only 2 options.
1. Run, which Glowinski and Neal are both decent enough at that they don't need the additional help.
or
2. Force quick throws into tight coverage that the DBs can jump routes
Adding a 4th TE is way down on the priority list for fixing what we saw Sunday
6 OL (or 5 OL and blocking TE, Bellinger, QB, Waller, RB, and a WR.
Don't know where you get the 2 options from. I count 4: Barkley, Bellinger, Waller, and WR. Not ideal, but it is certainly preferable to what we saw Sunday. Do you actually think Jones has enough time against teams like the Cowboys to get to his 3rd or 4th read, let alone anything beyond that?
The rest of your post I tend to agree with, there's plenty to go around.
I agree it is a frustruating thing with QBs. Eli IMO never really grew out of it. And Eli is probably my favorite athlete of all time. They try and do too much when there is nothing there.
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In comment 16204285 KDavies said:
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(hard to believe it is at this point), play a 6th OL as a blocking TE along with Bellinger. Waller out wide.
That's 8 player. Plus the QB. Leaving only 2 options.
1. Run, which Glowinski and Neal are both decent enough at that they don't need the additional help.
or
2. Force quick throws into tight coverage that the DBs can jump routes
Adding a 4th TE is way down on the priority list for fixing what we saw Sunday
6 OL (or 5 OL and blocking TE, Bellinger, QB, Waller, RB, and a WR.
Don't know where you get the 2 options from. I count 4: Barkley, Bellinger, Waller, and WR. Not ideal, but it is certainly preferable to what we saw Sunday. Do you actually think Jones has enough time against teams like the Cowboys to get to his 3rd or 4th read, let alone anything beyond that?
2 options as in two things they can do, not two skill players
As a coach if your o line is getting beat up on pass blocking you need to let the o line take it to the other team by running the ball which was working.
One of the worst in game coaching decision I have seen. Right up there with the double kneel down. Simply terrible.
Dabol did not give his team a chance to win or to at least play respectfully.
Sometimes when things go bad it just keeps going. You chalk it up to just a error riddled game and go from there. Some really good teams over the years have gotten whipped and it was the 1st game of the season in terrible weather. Blaming players if just silly at this point, you really cant say much good about the game.
Hard to believe that we were outcoached by a Mike McCarthy team but we were. All phases of the game were outcoached. When are we going to look at OL Coach Bobby Johnson as the problem here??? AT was a good player before BJ and remains a good player. Every other player on the OL has under performed. Some people seem to love this guy but the results are not there. We spent a lot of draft capital the last 2 years on the OL, Neal has played terribly game in and game out, Ezeudo cant crack the starting lineup, Glowinski is playing worse since he became a Giant. Our rookie C had a poor 1st game. Id say he should be on the hot seat.
Quinn piggybacked off Philly. They are playing 8 men close to the LOS, hyper aggressive with run blitzes mixed in. Its apparently uncommon. Jalin Hyatt figures to be an important chess piece to counter it but that's only if the Giants can find a way to give JOnes some time.
There was some good from the offense, WR's were apparently winning routes and these guys liked the concepts they saw. So the scheme wasn't all bad, the right side of the OL wrecked the game. This is a good listen.
All-22 Offensive Film Review - ( New Window )
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but to make matters worse, they were calling designed QB sweeps with him, down 33-0 in the pouring rain.
I hate to say it, but I will with the caveat that it was just one game...it had shades of Joe Judge type decision making.
It is as basic as simply sticking with the run THAT WAS working. It was almost like they had to PROVE the O passing attack was better vs simply doing what you do well RPO & short passing to assist the QB & OL.
Coaches have egos. They like to be right.
Hmmm... how much mental toughness is a QB supposed to have when the opposing defense is in his face when the ball is snapped?
I'd like to have seen a young Carl Banks take a few snaps Sunday night and see his mental toughness.
He quantified it:
Some quarterbacks, maybe most, get more rattled than others when being pressured; to the point it speeds them up to a point that even when they have time to make a play, they feel pressure that is there. He sited a few plays where this happened with Daniel.
I agree the inability for this line to create a pocket was evident on just about every play. But Daniel did miss a few throws that he would normally hit.
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But I would have applauded Jones if he started yelling and screaming at the Sieve the other night. A Tom Brady moment would have been warranted and demonstrated, at least to me, that this really Jones’s team.
Your point does remind me that this team may lack a classic goon/fiery guy to get in people's faces. Eli wasn't really that guy but I really appreciated Plaxico yelling at the oline when they were getting creamed during that 2006 classic at the Linc. Of course they rallied shortly afterward. Jacobs/Strahan/Shockey all took turns both playing heel to the opposing team/fans and firing up their teammates (though in Shockey's case that frequently swung to the detrimental end).
I'll always remember my Eagles-fan friend saying "wow the Giants are not boring for once" when Jacobs threw the ball at the playclock in the Dallas playoff game.
I don't think there is leader on the offense. It looks like a collection of nice guys who like each other. That's certainly important, but every unit needs a leader on the field.
It needs to be Jones, IMV. I'd like to see more fire and intensity. And if that's at the expense of a teammate failing to execute, good.
While I get that there are leaders who lead by example and performance, Jones is a long, long way from having that type of equity.
Know what Gruber, take your silliness somewhere else, stop trying to derail what s been a pretty good thread
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In comment 16204133 logman said:
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In comment 16204119 DefenseWins said:
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Dottino is.
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
There are multiple members of Giants State Media. Banks included.
Even when you see evidence to the contrary you stick with that take. Ok then.
Must be difficult to operate without realizing multiple things can be true simultaneously.
No, not really. But it is hard to imagine a mouth piece for the organization saying these things; you d never hear Dottino say these words.
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In comment 16204159 joeinpa said:
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In comment 16204133 logman said:
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In comment 16204119 DefenseWins said:
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Dottino is.
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
There are multiple members of Giants State Media. Banks included.
Even when you see evidence to the contrary you stick with that take. Ok then.
Must be difficult to operate without realizing multiple things can be true simultaneously.
No, not really. But it is hard to imagine a mouth piece for the organization saying these things; you d never hear Dottino say these words.
Just because Banks says some things that are critical on occasion does not preclude him from being a roundabout messenger for management when they need him to be.
We have no answer for that defense currently. Jones used to make these kinds of decisions not under pressure.
Giants got down 16-0 qquick and Dallas basiclaly played oress man coverage the rrst of the way taking away any short passe, dline just pinned their ears back and didnt care about anything but rushing the passer, no fakes or motion was going to stop that..
Jones basically had to throw into tight windows in a monsoon or eat it..
How the fuck is throwing out of bounds a “tight window”?!?
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I think Banks is referring to a handful of decisions where Jones tried to force a throw, rather than throw it away or keep it and run. There were also plays where Jones ran before the route concept took shape.
I agree, but it is under that kind pressure that QBs make bad decisions and look bad. How did Allen look, be honest, Burrow? Lets see more than the first game against the most old school dog on defense in the league. He should be a Giant.
We have no answer for that defense currently. Jones used to make these kinds of decisions not under pressure.
This is one of Jones' consistent bugaboos. He just made some better decisions a year ago, and they schemed the passing to be very short downfield to protect him. Small margin for error, I'm watching for him to grow in this respect.
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Hmmm... how much mental toughness is a QB supposed to have when the opposing defense is in his face when the ball is snapped?
I'd like to have seen a young Carl Banks take a few snaps Sunday night and see his mental toughness.
He quantified it:
Some quarterbacks, maybe most, get more rattled than others when being pressured; to the point it speeds them up to a point that even when they have time to make a play, they feel pressure that is there. He sited a few plays where this happened with Daniel.
I agree the inability for this line to create a pocket was evident on just about every play. But Daniel did miss a few throws that he would normally hit.
What QB is tough enough to deal with a guard who gets a 2 pff rating? Doesn't help Daboll and Kafka were completely outcoached.
Straight talk? They ARE on the soft side.
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In comment 16204180 M.S. said:
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Hmmm... how much mental toughness is a QB supposed to have when the opposing defense is in his face when the ball is snapped?
I'd like to have seen a young Carl Banks take a few snaps Sunday night and see his mental toughness.
He quantified it:
Some quarterbacks, maybe most, get more rattled than others when being pressured; to the point it speeds them up to a point that even when they have time to make a play, they feel pressure that is there. He sited a few plays where this happened with Daniel.
I agree the inability for this line to create a pocket was evident on just about every play. But Daniel did miss a few throws that he would normally hit.
What QB is tough enough to deal with a guard who gets a 2 pff rating? Doesn't help Daboll and Kafka were completely outcoached.
Not many.
I m not sure there has been a more consistent supporter of Daniel on this board than me. But, he still has things to prove as quarterback of the Giants going forward, that s not an unreasonable take.
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In comment 16204194 logman said:
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In comment 16204159 joeinpa said:
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In comment 16204133 logman said:
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In comment 16204119 DefenseWins said:
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Dottino is.
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
There are multiple members of Giants State Media. Banks included.
Even when you see evidence to the contrary you stick with that take. Ok then.
Must be difficult to operate without realizing multiple things can be true simultaneously.
No, not really. But it is hard to imagine a mouth piece for the organization saying these things; you d never hear Dottino say these words.
Just because Banks says some things that are critical on occasion does not preclude him from being a roundabout messenger for management when they need him to be.
I think you and I have a different definition of mouth piece. Given how you define it, I agree, he is an ambassador for the team.
My take on “mouth piece” is a willingness to ignore objectivity, to protect the brand, i. e. Dottino. Who will only speak the truth about a Giant, when he is an ex Giant.
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In comment 16204393 joeinpa said:
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In comment 16204180 M.S. said:
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Hmmm... how much mental toughness is a QB supposed to have when the opposing defense is in his face when the ball is snapped?
I'd like to have seen a young Carl Banks take a few snaps Sunday night and see his mental toughness.
He quantified it:
Some quarterbacks, maybe most, get more rattled than others when being pressured; to the point it speeds them up to a point that even when they have time to make a play, they feel pressure that is there. He sited a few plays where this happened with Daniel.
I agree the inability for this line to create a pocket was evident on just about every play. But Daniel did miss a few throws that he would normally hit.
What QB is tough enough to deal with a guard who gets a 2 pff rating? Doesn't help Daboll and Kafka were completely outcoached.
Not many.
I m not sure there has been a more consistent supporter of Daniel on this board than me. But, he still has things to prove as quarterback of the Giants going forward, that s not an unreasonable take.
It's kind like if there was a 20 car pile up that occurred right in front of Dale Earnhardt and he totals his car, would dopey NASCAR fans ask "why didn't he avoid the crash, he gets paid 40 million a year to drive around in circles!"
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In comment 16204180 M.S. said:
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Hmmm... how much mental toughness is a QB supposed to have when the opposing defense is in his face when the ball is snapped?
I'd like to have seen a young Carl Banks take a few snaps Sunday night and see his mental toughness.
He quantified it:
Some quarterbacks, maybe most, get more rattled than others when being pressured; to the point it speeds them up to a point that even when they have time to make a play, they feel pressure that is there. He sited a few plays where this happened with Daniel.
I agree the inability for this line to create a pocket was evident on just about every play. But Daniel did miss a few throws that he would normally hit.
What QB is tough enough to deal with a guard who gets a 2 pff rating? Doesn't help Daboll and Kafka were completely outcoached.
Maybe we can coach him up to a 5 rating this week
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In comment 16204232 bw in dc said:
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But I would have applauded Jones if he started yelling and screaming at the Sieve the other night. A Tom Brady moment would have been warranted and demonstrated, at least to me, that this really Jones’s team.
Your point does remind me that this team may lack a classic goon/fiery guy to get in people's faces. Eli wasn't really that guy but I really appreciated Plaxico yelling at the oline when they were getting creamed during that 2006 classic at the Linc. Of course they rallied shortly afterward. Jacobs/Strahan/Shockey all took turns both playing heel to the opposing team/fans and firing up their teammates (though in Shockey's case that frequently swung to the detrimental end).
I'll always remember my Eagles-fan friend saying "wow the Giants are not boring for once" when Jacobs threw the ball at the playclock in the Dallas playoff game.
I don't think there is leader on the offense. It looks like a collection of nice guys who like each other. That's certainly important, but every unit needs a leader on the field.
It needs to be Jones, IMV. I'd like to see more fire and intensity. And if that's at the expense of a teammate failing to execute, good.
While I get that there are leaders who lead by example and performance, Jones is a long, long way from having that type of equity.
Eli was a leader and he was never that guy. A lot of players looked up to him. There was a recent podcast with Evan Engram where he talked about looking up to Eli who took the blame even though his line left him out to dry.
Jones is a hard worker and leads by example. He has the same mentality that Eli did. I'm no insider but know some people that work with some of the players and Jones is very highly thought of by his teammates.
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I think Banks is referring to a handful of decisions where Jones tried to force a throw, rather than throw it away or keep it and run. There were also plays where Jones ran before the route concept took shape.
Eli had a tendency to do that too. A lot of QBs do. When nothing is working, they try and force a play. Whatever. They lose the game 34-0 instead of 40-0.
Then we saw the All 22... Did you see that f'in tape? Holy...
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In comment 16204406 joeinpa said:
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In comment 16204194 logman said:
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In comment 16204159 joeinpa said:
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In comment 16204133 logman said:
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In comment 16204119 DefenseWins said:
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Dottino is.
Banks has been brutally honest over the years to the point where I thought he would get fired
There are multiple members of Giants State Media. Banks included.
Even when you see evidence to the contrary you stick with that take. Ok then.
Must be difficult to operate without realizing multiple things can be true simultaneously.
No, not really. But it is hard to imagine a mouth piece for the organization saying these things; you d never hear Dottino say these words.
Just because Banks says some things that are critical on occasion does not preclude him from being a roundabout messenger for management when they need him to be.
I think you and I have a different definition of mouth piece. Given how you define it, I agree, he is an ambassador for the team.
My take on “mouth piece” is a willingness to ignore objectivity, to protect the brand, i. e. Dottino. Who will only speak the truth about a Giant, when he is an ex Giant.
We agree in whole RE: Dottino
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In comment 16204186 JonC said:
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I think Banks is referring to a handful of decisions where Jones tried to force a throw, rather than throw it away or keep it and run. There were also plays where Jones ran before the route concept took shape.
I agree, but it is under that kind pressure that QBs make bad decisions and look bad. How did Allen look, be honest, Burrow? Lets see more than the first game against the most old school dog on defense in the league. He should be a Giant.
We have no answer for that defense currently. Jones used to make these kinds of decisions not under pressure.
This is one of Jones' consistent bugaboos. He just made some better decisions a year ago, and they schemed the passing to be very short downfield to protect him. Small margin for error, I'm watching for him to grow in this respect.
Looking back at the tape, Jones left a few key plays on the field. Most notably on the pre pick-6 play he has Waller wide open (in his vision) for am easy 10+ but instead tucks to roll and ultimately throws it away. And on the pick-6, before Jones finishes his drop and sets, it's clear Diggs is breaking to the flat leaving Hodgins uncovered outside for a at least 15 yards. Again in his vision and with time to set and throw. But he throws to Barkley in the flat and it's game over.
I don't think there is leader on the offense. It looks like a collection of nice guys who like each other. That's certainly important, but every unit needs a leader on the field.
It needs to be Jones, IMV. I'd like to see more fire and intensity. And if that's at the expense of a teammate failing to execute, good.
While I get that there are leaders who lead by example and performance, Jones is a long, long way from having that type of equity.
Eli was a leader and he was never that guy. A lot of players looked up to him. There was a recent podcast with Evan Engram where he talked about looking up to Eli who took the blame even though his line left him out to dry.
Jones is a hard worker and leads by example. He has the same mentality that Eli did. I'm no insider but know some people that work with some of the players and Jones is very highly thought of by his teammates.
I'm sure Jones is well liked and a hard worker.
But if he wants to stay on the field and help the team succeed, it may be time to get a lot more assertive with the Sieve. Otherwise, this season may go sideways very quickly...
I think it's also easy for people to say these things when watching video. But when you are the person being hit and rushed it's a little different perspective. I'm sure his internal clock was all messed up and started watching the pass rush.
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In comment 16204461 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 16204186 JonC said:
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I think Banks is referring to a handful of decisions where Jones tried to force a throw, rather than throw it away or keep it and run. There were also plays where Jones ran before the route concept took shape.
I agree, but it is under that kind pressure that QBs make bad decisions and look bad. How did Allen look, be honest, Burrow? Lets see more than the first game against the most old school dog on defense in the league. He should be a Giant.
We have no answer for that defense currently. Jones used to make these kinds of decisions not under pressure.
This is one of Jones' consistent bugaboos. He just made some better decisions a year ago, and they schemed the passing to be very short downfield to protect him. Small margin for error, I'm watching for him to grow in this respect.
Looking back at the tape, Jones left a few key plays on the field. Most notably on the pre pick-6 play he has Waller wide open (in his vision) for am easy 10+ but instead tucks to roll and ultimately throws it away. And on the pick-6, before Jones finishes his drop and sets, it's clear Diggs is breaking to the flat leaving Hodgins uncovered outside for a at least 15 yards. Again in his vision and with time to set and throw. But he throws to Barkley in the flat and it's game over.
Yep. There was an analyst who wrote a couple weeks ago about Jones and what's missing from his game before he converts to one who thinks the Giants can win it all with him at QB. It's blind spots he can't find, wide open plays he won't trust himself to throw and instead, he runs. Those plays often tend to be the difference between points via the passing game or nothing in the NFL. I'm really hoping he unlocks it, the margin for error is too small right now.
On passing downs youhave the back or Bellingrr hit him in the ribs regardless of where he lines up. Let Parsons know he is going to be hit hard on every pass play that he rushes. Too bad we dont have Brandon Jacobs to "chip" parsons.
The miss to Campbell in the redzone in the second quarter was a big missed opportunity to switch momentum.
Sometimes quarterbacks are so bad that you do not need to watch the coaches tape. It is obvious right there for anyone that cares to see it.
It certainly looked great in the preseason game vs Carolina on the 10 play/65-yard drive by Jones. That was a teaser even it is preseason.
But I seem to recall quite a bit of joint practice news where Jones was getting "pretend sacked" quite a bit. Signs of a leaky line may have been there all along...
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We say that a lot here. All22 is available through the NFLN. I know Jones misses opportunities, i watch too. My question is, when you look at other QBs WITH THE SAME INTESITY, what plays do they leave on field? Without that context, and you need tons of it, how can you say ANYTHING about what Jones leaves on the field?
The miss to Campbell in the redzone in the second quarter was a big missed opportunity to switch momentum.
All quarterbacks miss passes, Accuracy has not been an issue for Jones.
The lack of protection was ridiculous, it affected him, much like it affected Eli and countless other quarterbacks.
Daniel played poorly, but I ve seen what he can do with just mediocre protection
All quarterbacks miss passes, Accuracy has not been an issue for Jones.
The lack of protection was ridiculous, it affected him, much like it affected Eli and countless other quarterbacks.
Daniel played poorly, but I ve seen what he can do with just mediocre protection
Campbell was the definition of wide open. And Jones had time and was rolling to his right. You just can't miss that throw at that point of the game when we needed a TD and were in the redzone.
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In comment 16204698 Thegratefulhead said:
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We say that a lot here. All22 is available through the NFLN. I know Jones misses opportunities, i watch too. My question is, when you look at other QBs WITH THE SAME INTESITY, what plays do they leave on field? Without that context, and you need tons of it, how can you say ANYTHING about what Jones leaves on the field?
The miss to Campbell in the redzone in the second quarter was a big missed opportunity to switch momentum.
All quarterbacks miss passes, Accuracy has not been an issue for Jones.
The lack of protection was ridiculous, it affected him, much like it affected Eli and countless other quarterbacks.
Daniel played poorly, but I ve seen what he can do with just mediocre protection
Jones didn't play well even with room and time before the dam broke.
I'm a huge Jones supporter, but after looking at the tape he was part of digging the initial hole that he later got buried in.
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In comment 16204895 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16204698 Thegratefulhead said:
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We say that a lot here. All22 is available through the NFLN. I know Jones misses opportunities, i watch too. My question is, when you look at other QBs WITH THE SAME INTESITY, what plays do they leave on field? Without that context, and you need tons of it, how can you say ANYTHING about what Jones leaves on the field?
The miss to Campbell in the redzone in the second quarter was a big missed opportunity to switch momentum.
All quarterbacks miss passes, Accuracy has not been an issue for Jones.
The lack of protection was ridiculous, it affected him, much like it affected Eli and countless other quarterbacks.
Daniel played poorly, but I ve seen what he can do with just mediocre protection
Jones didn't play well even with room and time before the dam broke.
I'm a huge Jones supporter, but after looking at the tape he was part of digging the initial hole that he later got buried in.
He didn’t have time from the first drive on.
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In comment 16204232 bw in dc said:
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But I would have applauded Jones if he started yelling and screaming at the Sieve the other night. A Tom Brady moment would have been warranted and demonstrated, at least to me, that this really Jones’s team.
Your point does remind me that this team may lack a classic goon/fiery guy to get in people's faces. Eli wasn't really that guy but I really appreciated Plaxico yelling at the oline when they were getting creamed during that 2006 classic at the Linc. Of course they rallied shortly afterward. Jacobs/Strahan/Shockey all took turns both playing heel to the opposing team/fans and firing up their teammates (though in Shockey's case that frequently swung to the detrimental end).
I'll always remember my Eagles-fan friend saying "wow the Giants are not boring for once" when Jacobs threw the ball at the playclock in the Dallas playoff game.
I don't think there is leader on the offense. It looks like a collection of nice guys who like each other. That's certainly important, but every unit needs a leader on the field.
It needs to be Jones, IMV. I'd like to see more fire and intensity. And if that's at the expense of a teammate failing to execute, good.
While I get that there are leaders who lead by example and performance, Jones is a long, long way from having that type of equity.
I think Saquon could and should be that guy. He’s got more of a fired up mentality on the field and I think a call out or kick in the ass from him would do wonders.
Outside the block/TD, his 2 interceptions were the keys to the loss. After that it was all over but the crying.
On his OB pick. He gets a low snap which maybe messes up his timing. Barklry from motion crosses the field wide open as Jones rolls to the hash, mirroring Jones and extending his arms toward the sideline for a target. But Jones decides to keep rolling out; Barkley breaks upfield. Barkley would have been an easy first -- but I don't know the play design.
The pick itself, while risky and maybe dumb, wasn't as bad as I thought on review. He sees Waller breaking toward him and puts the ball where Waller will be. But Waller sees him heading OB and stops.
As I posted above:
Play before the pick 6. Pressure but not play-breaking. He has Waller wide open (and in his vision) for am easy 10+. Instead he tucks it to roll, and ultimately throws it away.
Pick 6: before Jones finishes his drop and sets, it's clear Diggs is breaking to the flat leaving Hodgins uncovered outside. He sets, with Hodgins all alone on the sideline for 15+ yards. He has time to set and throw (so the cross-field throw from opposite hash isn't a problem). He has 2 targets - same angle. Barkley short in the flat with Diggs charging his way, or Hodgins (who Diggs abandoned) further upfield on the sideline.
He decides on Barkley in the flat with Diggs breaking like a locomotive. Game over.
I don't want to relitigate the Barkley play, but I do give him a break on coughing up that ball. He had no chance to really secure or prepare for that hit by Diggs. Diggs timed that perfectly. I was surprised Sy was so hard on Barkley on that play.
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guy that Randell Cunningham bounced off of for a TD.
That had nothing to do with Banks. That was one of the single greatest plays I've seen anyone make. Cunningham was like Gumby on that plan, Banks did everything correctly.
agreed.
That might be one of the weirdest takes I've ever seen on BBI. And that's saying something.
That might be one of the weirdest takes I've ever seen on BBI. And that's saying something.
And we had someone blame the loss on the Giants getting shellshocked
I really try to stay away from any personal insults when I post here. I almost never resort to that. But any Giant fan who criticizes Carl Banks the football player is a joke and a football moron.
On passing downs youhave the back or Bellingrr hit him in the ribs regardless of where he lines up. Let Parsons know he is going to be hit hard on every pass play that he rushes. Too bad we dont have Brandon Jacobs to "chip" parsons.
I was thinking this from the 2nd quarter on. Why were we passing? The run wasn't working much either. But as a coach, I would have run it right at the right side of the OL. Not gonna pass block? Then you better run block.
I'm not sure why we were so seemingly caught off guard at the speed of the Cowboys defense.
I can think of many things more worthy of remembering, sure.
I don't want to relitigate the Barkley play, but I do give him a break on coughing up that ball. He had no chance to really secure or prepare for that hit by Diggs. Diggs timed that perfectly. I was surprised Sy was so hard on Barkley on that play.
Sy knows a lot more than me but I think the Barkley pick is on Jones. Pre-snap, Diggs eyes are on Barkley; that and his leverage make it soooooooo obvious -- maybe Jones thought he was baiting him.
And BTW, the sideline receiver isn't just a sure 15. Hodgins probably gets some YAC before getting shoved OB, but a guy with shake and speed like Campbell had a real shot for a huge chunk or taking it to the house.
The Campbell miss and the Hyatt miss were both key bad throws. Uncharacteristically so. DJ was having a bad night. Maybe that late hit fazed him (and BTW where's the Jihad Ward or 3 on offense letting Kearses know that shit don't fly with their QB?).
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a Jones hater for daring to criticise him!
Know what Gruber, take your silliness somewhere else, stop trying to derail what s been a pretty good thread
Know what, joeinap, get a life, or at least a chill pill.
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Go look at the Campbell miss in the second quarter. JFC, we need that completion. It was a very straightforward throw.
I don't want to relitigate the Barkley play, but I do give him a break on coughing up that ball. He had no chance to really secure or prepare for that hit by Diggs. Diggs timed that perfectly. I was surprised Sy was so hard on Barkley on that play.
Sy knows a lot more than me but I think the Barkley pick is on Jones. Pre-snap, Diggs eyes are on Barkley; that and his leverage make it soooooooo obvious -- maybe Jones thought he was baiting him.
And BTW, the sideline receiver isn't just a sure 15. Hodgins probably gets some YAC before getting shoved OB, but a guy with shake and speed like Campbell had a real shot for a huge chunk or taking it to the house.
The Campbell miss and the Hyatt miss were both key bad throws. Uncharacteristically so. DJ was having a bad night. Maybe that late hit fazed him (and BTW where's the Jihad Ward or 3 on offense letting Kearses know that shit don't fly with their QB?).
There was also a receiver open straight ahead of Jones.
Frankly, that pick was bad luck more than anything to me. Guys helmet hits the ball and goes right to the defender? I think Jones made a bad pass and Barkley didn't secure the ball quickly enough, but the result was unlucky more than anything.