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Nfl Rule Question - Slayton OOB deep catch

bhill410 : 9/18/2023 6:27 am
On the 40 yard grab go slayton where he was ruled out of bounds, it appeared that his ankle/calf was down in bounds. Ankle/calf are considered down for purposes of a tackle, so I kind of assumed the 2 foot rule would not be applicable and you just need one other body part down in bounds (similar to your butt). Am I over thinking this or could that have potentially been challenged on that somewhat quirky rule.
I rewound the play. It was a TD.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/18/2023 6:28 am : link
He caught the ball in his hands and was transferring the ball to his left hand when the side of his foot and shin it down in bounds. It should have been a TD but you know how these replays go.
I thought the same.  
Angus : 9/18/2023 6:29 am : link
But it wasn't completely obvious that the ankle touched. Either way, awesome effort and play by Mr. Slayton.
Correct as far as I know it hasn't changed  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/18/2023 6:31 am : link
Shin = 2 feet.

Also for all the complaining about re-signing him he was clutch yesterday IMO
It was a pain to get the tv to stop at the right moment.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/18/2023 6:33 am : link
You could actually go back a litte further where it was more obvious.

It probably would have been Slayton's best catch ever  
robbieballs2003 : 9/18/2023 6:35 am : link
between difficulty and importance.
I think you still need 2 feet down inbounds  
kdog77 : 9/18/2023 6:44 am : link
to catch TD in the endzone. During the Packers-Falcons game, the refs overturned a Mack Hollins TD catch in the back of the endzone where he had 2 feet down but his back heel slightly grazed the line. When Slayton hit the pylon, he only had 1 foot down as he fell out of bounds. I think it was great effort but that was right call. If DJ throws that 1 foot further inside the line it is a TD.
RE: I think you still need 2 feet down inbounds  
robbieballs2003 : 9/18/2023 6:48 am : link
In comment 16210971 kdog77 said:
Quote:
to catch TD in the endzone. During the Packers-Falcons game, the refs overturned a Mack Hollins TD catch in the back of the endzone where he had 2 feet down but his back heel slightly grazed the line. When Slayton hit the pylon, he only had 1 foot down as he fell out of bounds. I think it was great effort but that was right call. If DJ throws that 1 foot further inside the line it is a TD.


Way different. He didn't get two feet down. His heel was out of bounds hence not a foot. If your shin is down, that is equivalent to to feet. It is like a toe drag. If your toes come down inbounds but slide out it is good. If your heel steps down out of bounds it is not good.
no, the shin would replace two  
jvm52106 : 9/18/2023 7:06 am : link
Feet BUT, the problem is his knee is out of bounds pretty close to the exact moment his shin is down and it would be super hard to overturn. I think if they called it a catch (TD) it would be just as hard to over turn it the other way too.
Half his lower leg was OOB  
BillT : 9/18/2023 7:32 am : link
If you’re going to get the “one knee equals two feet” call the entire limb has to be inbounds. It’s the same with a foot. If you tap you toe you’re in. If you heel come down inbounds but your toe is OOB then you’re out. His entire lower leg would have had to be inbounds for it to be called a catch.
RE: no, the shin would replace two  
robbieballs2003 : 9/18/2023 7:33 am : link
In comment 16210981 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Feet BUT, the problem is his knee is out of bounds pretty close to the exact moment his shin is down and it would be super hard to overturn. I think if they called it a catch (TD) it would be just as hard to over turn it the other way too.


The image above clearly shows his shin down before his knee. And this is with my tv not the ability to go frame by frame.
RE: Half his lower leg was OOB  
robbieballs2003 : 9/18/2023 7:34 am : link
In comment 16210996 BillT said:
Quote:
If you’re going to get the “one knee equals two feet” call the entire limb has to be inbounds. It’s the same with a foot. If you tap you toe you’re in. If you heel come down inbounds but your toe is OOB then you’re out. His entire lower leg would have had to be inbounds for it to be called a catch.


No. This is wrong.
RE: no, the shin would replace two  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/18/2023 7:41 am : link
In comment 16210981 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Feet BUT, the problem is his knee is out of bounds pretty close to the exact moment his shin is down and it would be super hard to overturn. I think if they called it a catch (TD) it would be just as hard to over turn it the other way too.


This is what I assumed the Giants felt like . Ruled an INC catch they most likely not going to change it. Either ways I stated. He made a really nice catch on the tying drive too. IMO his current contract is a steal in todays NFL
robbie  
BillT : 9/18/2023 7:42 am : link
I think you’re wrong about that. If it’s your shin that is the limb the you don’t get to divide the lower shin from the upper shin. Just like you don’t get to divide the front of the foot from the back of the foot unless that’s the only part that touches the ground. If any part of the determining limb is OOB I think you’re OOB.
Thought it was a TD in real time  
j_rud : 9/18/2023 7:47 am : link
But let it go when Daboll didn't challenge. Slayton was great yesterday. If Jones was a little better on 2 balls he'd be the story of the day because they left about 80 yards out there.
RE: robbie  
markky : 9/18/2023 7:49 am : link
In comment 16211009 BillT said:
Quote:
I think you’re wrong about that. If it’s your shin that is the limb the you don’t get to divide the lower shin from the upper shin. Just like you don’t get to divide the front of the foot from the back of the foot unless that’s the only part that touches the ground. If any part of the determining limb is OOB I think you’re OOB.


what about the case where you're going out of bounds backwards, you toe drag in bounds and then the heel touches down out of bounds? that is essentially the same thing.
RE: robbie  
robbieballs2003 : 9/18/2023 7:49 am : link
In comment 16211009 BillT said:
Quote:
I think you’re wrong about that. If it’s your shin that is the limb the you don’t get to divide the lower shin from the upper shin. Just like you don’t get to divide the front of the foot from the back of the foot unless that’s the only part that touches the ground. If any part of the determining limb is OOB I think you’re OOB.


No, you are guessing. The rule is any body part other than a foot or hand is considered down. Please show me where it says limb. You are making that up.
Think of a fumble on the field. If a player's forearm is down but not  
robbieballs2003 : 9/18/2023 7:50 am : link
His elbow he is down. We've seen this with shins before too.
This one went against us as did the Arizona catch where it was  
Spider56 : 9/18/2023 7:55 am : link
questionable if the receiver held possession all the way to the ground. Daboll challenged that one and lost.
RE: robbie  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2023 7:58 am : link
In comment 16211009 BillT said:
Quote:
I think you’re wrong about that. If it’s your shin that is the limb the you don’t get to divide the lower shin from the upper shin. Just like you don’t get to divide the front of the foot from the back of the foot unless that’s the only part that touches the ground. If any part of the determining limb is OOB I think you’re OOB.


Anything above your ankle or below your wrist counts as being down - ie shin or forearm.
RE: Think of a fumble on the field. If a player's forearm is down but not  
pjcas18 : 9/18/2023 8:07 am : link
In comment 16211015 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
His elbow he is down. We've seen this with shins before too.


is this true? I think this is confusing a couple different points.

I think if your forearm is down you are not actually down and you can keep running. Has to be a knee right?

but since you introduced fumbling the ground can't force a fumble so not sure how that gets called. there's a lot going on there, lol. too much for 8am on a Monday.
RE: RE: Think of a fumble on the field. If a player's forearm is down but not  
pjcas18 : 9/18/2023 8:09 am : link
In comment 16211038 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16211015 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


His elbow he is down. We've seen this with shins before too.



is this true? I think this is confusing a couple different points.

I think if your forearm is down you are not actually down and you can keep running. Has to be a knee right?

but since you introduced fumbling the ground can't force a fumble so not sure how that gets called. there's a lot going on there, lol. too much for 8am on a Monday.


actually just checked the rule book. forearm is in fact down. my apologies, anything above the wrist.
One shin is down  
logman : 9/18/2023 8:13 am : link
it's been that way for as long as I can remember
I thought the same  
Daniel in MI : 9/18/2023 8:14 am : link
But the knee being out is a ? Is there a second where the shin is down but not the knee yet? You’d have to Zapruder film that thing, frame by frame. No sure bet to challenge that. It would have been nice for the announcers to mention it, though.
RE: RE: robbie  
BillT : 9/18/2023 8:17 am : link
In comment 16211014 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 16211009 BillT said:


Quote:


I think you’re wrong about that. If it’s your shin that is the limb the you don’t get to divide the lower shin from the upper shin. Just like you don’t get to divide the front of the foot from the back of the foot unless that’s the only part that touches the ground. If any part of the determining limb is OOB I think you’re OOB.



No, you are guessing. The rule is any body part other than a foot or hand is considered down. Please show me where it says limb. You are making that up.

It’s true for the foot example I gave. Right?
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/18/2023 8:20 am : link
I thought his shin was down and was annoyed that Daboll didn't challenge, but I'm not sure it would have been overturned, and then we would have been out of challenges.
I was watching I believe  
bradshaw44 : 9/18/2023 8:20 am : link
The ATL game earlier. The receiver caught the ball, tapped his toes, then his heel came down after the toes were firmly down in bounds and they called no TD. I think they are applying the same logic here. His shin is down but in the same catch motion his knee hits out of bounds so it’s considered out. It’s a dumb rule but I think they applied the same logic here.
Have they ever in the history of the league  
BH28 : 9/18/2023 8:21 am : link
called a shin being equal to two feet for a catch?

I know the shin has been used to call a runner down and we all know the knee counts as two feet for a catch.

I just can't recall a time where a shin has been used to signify a catch against the boundary.
RE: RE: robbie  
BillT : 9/18/2023 8:26 am : link
In comment 16211019 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 16211009 BillT said:


Quote:


I think you’re wrong about that. If it’s your shin that is the limb the you don’t get to divide the lower shin from the upper shin. Just like you don’t get to divide the front of the foot from the back of the foot unless that’s the only part that touches the ground. If any part of the determining limb is OOB I think you’re OOB.



Anything above your ankle or below your wrist counts as being down - ie shin or forearm.

Yes, but half his shin was OOB. What about that.
To me his shin looks down  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2023 8:33 am : link
then his knee goes out. I’m not mad about it, it was close. I was simply clarifying what constitutes as down per the league rules.
RE: I was watching I believe  
BillT : 9/18/2023 8:34 am : link
In comment 16211056 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
The ATL game earlier. The receiver caught the ball, tapped his toes, then his heel came down after the toes were firmly down in bounds and they called no TD. I think they are applying the same logic here. His shin is down but in the same catch motion his knee hits out of bounds so it’s considered out. It’s a dumb rule but I think they applied the same logic here.

Yes. Thank you.
RE: RE: I was watching I believe  
Gfan in PA : 9/18/2023 8:59 am : link
In comment 16211077 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 16211056 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


The ATL game earlier. The receiver caught the ball, tapped his toes, then his heel came down after the toes were firmly down in bounds and they called no TD. I think they are applying the same logic here. His shin is down but in the same catch motion his knee hits out of bounds so it’s considered out. It’s a dumb rule but I think they applied the same logic here.


Yes. Thank you.


Bradshaw, I saw that ATL game too and do not understand that call. How was that any different than a WR toe tapping the sideline then falling OOB?? 2 toes = inbounds catch? They may have applied the same logic but it seems an inconsistent call. The pic above does not show possession, maybe that was the determining factor?
By the rule it sounds like a catch  
steve in ky : 9/18/2023 9:08 am : link
“Any part of the body”

Quote:

COMPLETED OR INTERCEPTED PASS

A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) in the field of play, at the sideline, or in the end zone if a player, who is inbounds:

a. secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

b. touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

c. after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, performs any act common to the game (e.g., tuck the ball away, extend it forward, take an additional step, turn upfield, or avoid or ward off an opponent), or he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.
I love these type of threads  
Stu11 : 9/18/2023 9:26 am : link
It's fun to get everyone's views on watching the same thing. I agree I thought in real time his shin/calf may have been down but it's so close with whether his knee was down that it wasn't worth a challenge.
I agree  
Johnny5 : 9/18/2023 9:43 am : link
I actually agree with you Robbie, but I think it would have not been overturned.
his shin was def in but from the sideline angle the ball moves  
Eric on Li : 9/18/2023 9:48 am : link
a little bit when it comes in contact with the ground. that was where i was a little concerned if it went to review more than the shin.

it was all close enough i think they would have probably stuck with call on the field, but i would 100% call it slayton's best catch ever any way. if that is a big name receiver they call it a catch and it is the top replay everywhere.
this was what i was worried about it  
Eric on Li : 9/18/2023 9:55 am : link
when the nose of the ball hits the ground exposed like that i think it's hard to say it's under control.



you can see in the gif right after this part where the ball skids on ground (and moves) he snaps his other hand over to protect it but i think at that point they would have called it incomplete.

either way amazing effort and amazing near catch. almost beckham level. if they had called it a catch i think it would have held up and if he was a big name player like beckham i think they call it a catch.

I have a replay question  
HBart : 9/18/2023 9:56 am : link
On Slay's non-catch and Daboll's failed challenge, we didn't see the usual 3-4 angle replay uber-close-ups. No way to even really see the true story. What's up with that?
RE: no, the shin would replace two  
BillKo : 9/18/2023 10:31 am : link
In comment 16210981 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Feet BUT, the problem is his knee is out of bounds pretty close to the exact moment his shin is down and it would be super hard to overturn. I think if they called it a catch (TD) it would be just as hard to over turn it the other way too.


Kinda agree here. I'll admit I was no where even near realizing the "shin" was down, but I can see the point.

The overall issue here is the shin is down but it also appears he's OOB at the same time. Considering it was ruled incomplete, I think it would have stood but who knows with these huckleberry replay guys.
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