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Question on the 58 yard completion

1st and 10 : 9/18/2023 7:59 am
to me, it was clear that Jalin had to slow down in order to make the catch (D.J. did not hit him in stride).

Because Jalin had to slow down, I think that took the TD away as the CB was able to catch up.

Is my view wrong on this? Does D.J. have the arm strength to hit the very deep throws? I know he is accurate deep by his play last year, but Jalin is a different type of deep than we have had before.

I really hope to see more of these throws and completions, whether they result in TD's or not.
Definitely  
robbieballs2003 : 9/18/2023 7:59 am : link
.
Hyatt slowed down on his route for both his catches.  
ThomasG : 9/18/2023 8:04 am : link
Nice job by him keeping concentration as the defender is able to recover some.
Hyatts game speed is phenomenal.  
Spider56 : 9/18/2023 8:06 am : link
He went by the DBs like they were standing still. The TDs will come as the timing improves.
He's definitely outrunning throws ATM  
logman : 9/18/2023 8:08 am : link
Ideally, he and Jones get their internal clocks in alignment and Jones can just trust airing it out before he's open
The throw was 50 yards  
gersh : 9/18/2023 8:22 am : link
And pretty much on a rope
DJ needs to learn to throw it a bit earlier
Lol  
joeinpa : 9/18/2023 8:28 am : link
It never ends.
I'm not always a rah-rah Jones guy  
Lambuth_Special : 9/18/2023 8:30 am : link
But I don't mind underthrown deep balls to be honest. It's much better to have a 50-yard completion where the CB gets the tackle than no completion at all.

The issue is when things are way underthrown to the point where the CB has great positioning, like the sideline throw to Slayton in the 1st half.
RE: Lol  
1st and 10 : 9/18/2023 8:31 am : link
In comment 16211067 joeinpa said:
Quote:
It never ends.


Joe, don't mistake my post as a complaint post, it is not meant to be that.
I thought it was underthrown  
DC Gmen Fan : 9/18/2023 8:38 am : link
But also realize Jones and Hyatt might not be on the same timing page yet. It will come. DJ obviously has the arm strength.
How does anyone watch Jones and wonder about his arm strength  
BillT : 9/18/2023 8:41 am : link
Do you watch him throw? Did you see the rockets to Hyatt and Slayton. The TD to Hodgins.
You could say Daniel Jones could have  
M.S. : 9/18/2023 8:45 am : link
thrown the ball further downfield for a TD, but that’s a minor quibble IMO because:

(A) it’s not as though Daniel Jones severely under-threw the pass

(B) the pass was dead on target

Daniel Jones is the LEAST of the Giants worries right now. Their O-line is in disarray, their secondary looks a little helter-skelter with so many new faces and their run defense is non-existent. Oh, and did I forget to mention that last year’s #5 draft pick is playing worse than their #7?

Daniel Jones is the answer on a team that has so many other questions that still need to be answered.
It's not an arm strength issue, it is a recognition and timing one.  
ThomasG : 9/18/2023 8:45 am : link
Balls have to come out earlier.
It tells me the Hyatt is very fast  
CasualFan : 9/18/2023 8:45 am : link
and DJ underestimated how quick Hyatt gets to the ball. As someome mentioned, DJ was making all the throws pretty well. Those two need to get their timing down.
Before I even opened the thread I knew this was what it was  
map7711 : 9/18/2023 8:48 am : link
Amazing.

Just simply amazing.
RE: Before I even opened the thread I knew this was what it was  
KDavies : 9/18/2023 8:50 am : link
In comment 16211094 map7711 said:
Quote:
Amazing.

Just simply amazing.


Yep, it will never stop.
You realize  
mittenedman : 9/18/2023 8:54 am : link
how difficult it is to hit him in perfect stride right?
...  
christian : 9/18/2023 8:55 am : link
I don't think it's a matter of strength, but more a matter of timing.

Hyatt definitely had to slow down. Jones has the arm. The more they play together the crisper those deep balls will get.
BTW  
mittenedman : 9/18/2023 8:56 am : link
That speed at the top of the route was “the flash”. That’s what it looks like. Next level speed.
RE: RE: Lol  
joeinpa : 9/18/2023 9:00 am : link
In comment 16211070 1st and 10 said:
Quote:
In comment 16211067 joeinpa said:


Quote:


It never ends.



Joe, don't mistake my post as a complaint post, it is not meant to be that.


1st and 10. Maybe I m totally wrong about this, but it seems Jones is evaluated unlike any other quarterback. It doesn’t seem to matter how many times he answers the questions: Can he elevate those around him, can he perform during winning time, in the clutch. Is he accurate, can he process etc. etc. the second he makes a mistake, a pass off line, an interception, a fumble, all the good is erased, for some, and all the old refrains return.

I watch quarterbacks from all around me he league, if held to the standard Daniel is, non would last the test

You re post is an example. A pass of 40 plus yards, it perfect and you quest is arm strength

I think he is a very good quarterback with a chance to be great.
Jones’s deep balls tend to be rainbows  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/18/2023 9:07 am : link
The length of time they are in the air allows defenders to catch up. Plus the speed guys still have to slow down.

Jones had a great 2nd half, but let’s face it, he does not have a strong arm.
RE: RE: RE: Lol  
KDavies : 9/18/2023 9:10 am : link
In comment 16211122 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16211070 1st and 10 said:


Quote:


In comment 16211067 joeinpa said:


Quote:


It never ends.



Joe, don't mistake my post as a complaint post, it is not meant to be that.



1st and 10. Maybe I m totally wrong about this, but it seems Jones is evaluated unlike any other quarterback. It doesn’t seem to matter how many times he answers the questions: Can he elevate those around him, can he perform during winning time, in the clutch. Is he accurate, can he process etc. etc. the second he makes a mistake, a pass off line, an interception, a fumble, all the good is erased, for some, and all the old refrains return.

I watch quarterbacks from all around me he league, if held to the standard Daniel is, non would last the test

You re post is an example. A pass of 40 plus yards, it perfect and you quest is arm strength

I think he is a very good quarterback with a chance to be great.


There were fans that made up their mind of him the moment he was drafted. The good he does is now "well that's what he should be doing. He's paid $40 million." Anything bad he does is amplified because the critic does it better in his mother's basement playing Madden
Hyatt is very fast  
steve in ky : 9/18/2023 9:19 am : link
With a little more time playing together Jones will dial in just how far he can lead him compared to how he would the other receivers
RE: RE: RE: Lol  
1st and 10 : 9/18/2023 9:25 am : link
In comment 16211122 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16211070 1st and 10 said:


Quote:


In comment 16211067 joeinpa said:


Quote:


It never ends.



Joe, don't mistake my post as a complaint post, it is not meant to be that.



1st and 10. Maybe I m totally wrong about this, but it seems Jones is evaluated unlike any other quarterback. It doesn’t seem to matter how many times he answers the questions: Can he elevate those around him, can he perform during winning time, in the clutch. Is he accurate, can he process etc. etc. the second he makes a mistake, a pass off line, an interception, a fumble, all the good is erased, for some, and all the old refrains return.

I watch quarterbacks from all around me he league, if held to the standard Daniel is, non would last the test

You re post is an example. A pass of 40 plus yards, it perfect and you quest is arm strength

I think he is a very good quarterback with a chance to be great.


I love DJ, I believe he is a top 10 QE. My post was to disect how that play could be better as I see this play as a key play going forward to help keep defenses honest.

I have been in DJ’s corner for years now
RE: ...  
GiantGrit : 9/18/2023 9:35 am : link
In comment 16211106 christian said:
Quote:
I don't think it's a matter of strength, but more a matter of timing.

Hyatt definitely had to slow down. Jones has the arm. The more they play together the crisper those deep balls will get.


Its exactly this. He waited until Jaylin was open, he needs to trust Jaylin will get there and release earlier. He had a clean pocket on that play as well.

Main issue was timing but that needs to be a TD moving forward.
RE: RE: ...  
Mike in NY : 9/18/2023 9:40 am : link
In comment 16211187 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 16211106 christian said:


Quote:


I don't think it's a matter of strength, but more a matter of timing.

Hyatt definitely had to slow down. Jones has the arm. The more they play together the crisper those deep balls will get.



Its exactly this. He waited until Jaylin was open, he needs to trust Jaylin will get there and release earlier. He had a clean pocket on that play as well.

Main issue was timing but that needs to be a TD moving forward.


More reps will help in that regard as Jones does not have a lot of time with Hyatt other than in controlled practices where the depth chart ahead of Hyatt (Slayton, Campbell, etc.) get most of the reps. As Jones gains experience knowing how much space Hyatt needs in order to be open when the ball arrives the ball will arrive sooner.
My guess is that  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2023 9:42 am : link
it’s a tough adjustment to make and one Jones will make with more experience throwing to Hyatt. He’s clearly got the arm strength, just need to let it rip a bit more.
RE: Jones’s deep balls tend to be rainbows  
Fast Eddie : 9/18/2023 9:43 am : link
In comment 16211131 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
The length of time they are in the air allows defenders to catch up. Plus the speed guys still have to slow down.

Jones had a great 2nd half, but let’s face it, he does not have a strong arm.


Lol, the kid has a canon
look up the Marvin Mims TD  
KDavies : 9/18/2023 9:43 am : link
same thing. Mims had to slow up a bit. Not a big deal really. Would much rather that than an incompletion. I want my QB putting the ball where only the WR gets it, and where the WR has a good chance to get it. Rather than looking it as a knock on Jones, I look at it as a real positive for the WR having the ability to adjust to the ball
RE: RE: ...  
HBart : 9/18/2023 9:44 am : link
In comment 16211187 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 16211106 christian said:


Quote:


I don't think it's a matter of strength, but more a matter of timing.

Hyatt definitely had to slow down. Jones has the arm. The more they play together the crisper those deep balls will get.



Its exactly this. He waited until Jaylin was open, he needs to trust Jaylin will get there and release earlier. He had a clean pocket on that play as well.

Main issue was timing but that needs to be a TD moving forward.

I have lots of concerns about the team, but Jones and Hyatt getting their timing down isn't one. They've had 40 total game snaps together, and timing was busted on at least half from the get-go.

That one catch not only turned the game around but added a whole new element for the bad guys DC to plan for (along with Slay's new found sticky hands).
Jones had time...  
bw in dc : 9/18/2023 9:46 am : link
set his feet and got the ball far enough where the DB couldn't close to break it up. Good solid B+ throw.

Fortunately, we scored shortly thereafter.
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/18/2023 9:51 am : link
Felt like one of those throws where he was going to be so wide open that he wanted to make sure he made the play. Wasn't a great throw but it was adequate.
That’s why you need to work with  
Carl in CT : 9/18/2023 9:57 am : link
First team receivers in practice. Remember it’s always better to underthrow and get the reception than overthrow and lose the down.
 
christian : 9/18/2023 9:57 am : link
Some of you guys are weird, 1st and 10 has been a consistent fan and defender of Jones.
In my book  
Carl in CT : 9/18/2023 9:58 am : link
Given the drops DJ should be NFC player of the week. That’s how well I believe he played.
RE: I'm not always a rah-rah Jones guy  
Kevin in Annapolis : 9/18/2023 9:59 am : link
In comment 16211069 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
But I don't mind underthrown deep balls to be honest. It's much better to have a 50-yard completion where the CB gets the tackle than no completion at all.

The issue is when things are way underthrown to the point where the CB has great positioning, like the sideline throw to Slayton in the 1st half.


Under thrown deep balls often lead to pass interference calls as well
RE: RE: Jones’s deep balls tend to be rainbows  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/18/2023 10:14 am : link
In comment 16211210 Fast Eddie said:
Quote:
In comment 16211131 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


The length of time they are in the air allows defenders to catch up. Plus the speed guys still have to slow down.

Jones had a great 2nd half, but let’s face it, he does not have a strong arm.



Lol, the kid has a canon


I like Jones. He’s a good QB. He doesn’t have a “canon” (I think you meant “cannon” lol, which he also doesn’t have).

His arm is strong enough, but please, let’s be real here. That throw was not on a freakin rope, like a previous poster said.
That pass was right on the money  
PatersonPlank : 9/18/2023 10:20 am : link
No one was throwing it better. Its impossible for a QB to be more accurate than that from 60 yds away. If you are basing this on the fact he got caught I would say any WR slows down a little when receiving the ball, its not a 100 yd dash
What I have noticed  
MotownGIANTS : 9/18/2023 10:25 am : link
is Hyatt beats his man (men running thru a zone) fairly early. With better anticipation and syngery (more practive reps /w the 1s and PT for Hyatt) it'll start to get delivered on time, hopefully.
RE: That pass was right on the money  
PatersonPlank : 9/18/2023 10:25 am : link
In comment 16211289 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
No one was throwing it better. Its impossible for a QB to be more accurate than that from 60 yds away. If you are basing this on the fact he got caught I would say any WR slows down a little when receiving the ball, its not a 100 yd dash


I just saw it again on GMF, it was throw almost perfectly
RE: Jones’s deep balls tend to be rainbows  
MotownGIANTS : 9/18/2023 10:28 am : link
In comment 16211131 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
The length of time they are in the air allows defenders to catch up. Plus the speed guys still have to slow down.

Jones had a great 2nd half, but let’s face it, he does not have a strong arm.


He does put too much air under the long ball at times ... however he has a strong arm the TD to Hodgins was accurate and with high velocity to slice thru the zone
Hyatt should be taking the top of the D on every play.  
penkap75 : 9/18/2023 10:29 am : link
Anyone know what he is not doing in practice to gain more play time?
RE: It's not an arm strength issue, it is a recognition and timing one.  
joeinpa : 9/18/2023 10:31 am : link
In comment 16211090 ThomasG said:
Quote:
Balls have to come out earlier.


Of course it
RE: Hyatt should be taking the top of the D on every play.  
PatersonPlank : 9/18/2023 10:32 am : link
In comment 16211302 penkap75 said:
Quote:
Anyone know what he is not doing in practice to gain more play time?


I'd bench Campbell and go with Hyatt, Slayton, and Hodgins. Have Campbell come is as the 4th, or if Slayton gets the dropsies.
Would you rather slightly underthrow  
GMen Fan in NashVegas : 9/18/2023 10:54 am : link
the pass and guarantee a completion than overthrow slightly hoping to hit him in stride and miss the opportunity for a big play? Of course DJ has the arm strength to make that throw!
DJ's got a hose.  
Csonka : 9/18/2023 11:29 am : link
Gotta get the arm on tape.
Each of our 5-6 receivers would reach that point  
CT Charlie : 9/18/2023 11:59 am : link
50 yards downfield running at top speed, at a slightly different moment. Of course he's going not going to hit each one perfectly in stride.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Lol  
joeinpa : 9/18/2023 12:00 pm : link
In comment 16211161 1st and 10 said:
Quote:
In comment 16211122 joeinpa said:


Quote:


In comment 16211070 1st and 10 said:


Quote:


In comment 16211067 joeinpa said:


Quote:


It never ends.



Joe, don't mistake my post as a complaint post, it is not meant to be that.



1st and 10. Maybe I m totally wrong about this, but it seems Jones is evaluated unlike any other quarterback. It doesn’t seem to matter how many times he answers the questions: Can he elevate those around him, can he perform during winning time, in the clutch. Is he accurate, can he process etc. etc. the second he makes a mistake, a pass off line, an interception, a fumble, all the good is erased, for some, and all the old refrains return.

I watch quarterbacks from all around me he league, if held to the standard Daniel is, non would last the test

You re post is an example. A pass of 40 plus yards, it perfect and you quest is arm strength

I think he is a very good quarterback with a chance to be great.



I love DJ, I believe he is a top 10 QE. My post was to disect how that play could be better as I see this play as a key play going forward to help keep defenses honest.

I have been in DJ’s corner for years now


My post was directed towards a general attitude that has prevailed, from some, for the entire Jones s era, it towards you personally.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Lol  
joeinpa : 9/18/2023 12:03 pm : link
In comment 16211522 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16211161 1st and 10 said:


Quote:


In comment 16211122 joeinpa said:


Quote:


In comment 16211070 1st and 10 said:


Quote:


In comment 16211067 joeinpa said:


Quote:


It never ends.



Joe, don't mistake my post as a complaint post, it is not meant to be that.



1st and 10. Maybe I m totally wrong about this, but it seems Jones is evaluated unlike any other quarterback. It doesn’t seem to matter how many times he answers the questions: Can he elevate those around him, can he perform during winning time, in the clutch. Is he accurate, can he process etc. etc. the second he makes a mistake, a pass off line, an interception, a fumble, all the good is erased, for some, and all the old refrains return.

I watch quarterbacks from all around me he league, if held to the standard Daniel is, non would last the test

You re post is an example. A pass of 40 plus yards, it perfect and you quest is arm strength

I think he is a very good quarterback with a chance to be great.



I love DJ, I believe he is a top 10 QE. My post was to disect how that play could be better as I see this play as a key play going forward to help keep defenses honest.

I have been in DJ’s corner for years now



My post was directed towards a general attitude that has prevailed, from some, for the entire Jones s era, it towards you personally.


It = not.
RE: RE: Lol  
Rory : 9/18/2023 12:09 pm : link
In comment 16211070 1st and 10 said:
Quote:
In comment 16211067 joeinpa said:


Quote:


It never ends.



Joe, don't mistake my post as a complaint post, it is not meant to be that.


then what the fuck is your point dude. DJ has excellent arm strength.

fucking nit picking because you have nothing better to do on a Monday.
I Was At The Game  
Trainmaster : 9/18/2023 12:11 pm : link
When Hyatt accelerates he really has a top gear that few others have.

I think Jones is still learning / adjusting to Hyatt’s speed.

RE: How does anyone watch Jones and wonder about his arm strength  
NYDCBlue : 9/18/2023 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16211085 BillT said:
Quote:
Do you watch him throw? Did you see the rockets to Hyatt and Slayton. The TD to Hodgins.



Jones usually throws a great and accurate deep ball. Yesterday was an off day. He left all his deep throws short. You mention Slayton. That one early deep bomb to Slayton would have been a completion and possibly a TD if Jones did not leave it short, forcing Slayton to slow down and the DB to catch up to him.
He just needs to learn to throw sooner  
bradshaw44 : 9/18/2023 2:04 pm : link
Once their timing is down he will be good to go.
RE: I Was At The Game  
bradshaw44 : 9/18/2023 2:05 pm : link
In comment 16211561 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
When Hyatt accelerates he really has a top gear that few others have.

I think Jones is still learning / adjusting to Hyatt’s speed.


I believe Eric on LI said only Tyreek Hill is faster. So that tells you all you need to know.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Lol  
1st and 10 : 9/18/2023 2:26 pm : link
In comment 16211522 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 16211161 1st and 10 said:


Quote:


In comment 16211122 joeinpa said:


Quote:


In comment 16211070 1st and 10 said:


Quote:


In comment 16211067 joeinpa said:


Quote:


It never ends.



Joe, don't mistake my post as a complaint post, it is not meant to be that.



1st and 10. Maybe I m totally wrong about this, but it seems Jones is evaluated unlike any other quarterback. It doesn’t seem to matter how many times he answers the questions: Can he elevate those around him, can he perform during winning time, in the clutch. Is he accurate, can he process etc. etc. the second he makes a mistake, a pass off line, an interception, a fumble, all the good is erased, for some, and all the old refrains return.

I watch quarterbacks from all around me he league, if held to the standard Daniel is, non would last the test

You re post is an example. A pass of 40 plus yards, it perfect and you quest is arm strength

I think he is a very good quarterback with a chance to be great.



I love DJ, I believe he is a top 10 QE. My post was to disect how that play could be better as I see this play as a key play going forward to help keep defenses honest.

I have been in DJ’s corner for years now



My post was directed towards a general attitude that has prevailed, from some, for the entire Jones s era, it towards you personally.


Understood
RE: You could say Daniel Jones could have  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/18/2023 2:30 pm : link
In comment 16211089 M.S. said:
Quote:
thrown the ball further downfield for a TD, but that’s a minor quibble IMO because:

(A) it’s not as though Daniel Jones severely under-threw the pass

(B) the pass was dead on target

Daniel Jones is the LEAST of the Giants worries right now. Their O-line is in disarray, their secondary looks a little helter-skelter with so many new faces and their run defense is non-existent. Oh, and did I forget to mention that last year’s #5 draft pick is playing worse than their #7?

Daniel Jones is the answer on a team that has so many other questions that still need to be answered.

I think that pass was VERY underthrown. And it's impossible to simultaneously be underthrown and dead on target.

That said, it was a completion, so the criticism shouldn't be too harsh. Honestly, I just think DJ needs to adjust to Hyatt's speed. It's impossible to overthrow Hyatt. For some of our other WRs, that throw would have been right in stride. For Hyatt (and we saw it again later on with Slayton), their speed gets negated a bit when they have to slow down or come back to the ball on a deep route.

I'm confident that DJ will get that timing down. It just takes reps.
You know how hard it is to  
Amtoft : 9/18/2023 2:42 pm : link
hit different WRs with different speed from 50 yards away. When a WR is that open the worst thing you can do is mess that up and he didn't. It is always better to slightly under throw than to slightly overthrow a WR. I would bet as they play more he will hit those even better, but you guys act like that was a 10 yard out.
Since his rookie year, one thing I have not questioned about Jones  
Matt M. : 9/18/2023 2:46 pm : link
is arm strength. One could argue it is recognition, timing, release, etc. But, the arm is there. I'd be more concerned if those passes were not completed.
100% of overthrown passes  
PEEJ : 9/18/2023 2:51 pm : link
don't get caught
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