Especially given the level of OL he's been up against these first two weeks. I think his days here are numbered. Good thing Schoen didn't decide to restructure his deal, as painful as it is right now.
I'm concerned with everyone on D not named Dexter Lawrence
More concerned with Thibs, who is making no impact.
Agreed...but Thibs aint making $20MM++
BTW I deleted that game meet up yesterday because my plans changed...do you live in NYC?
I do want to meet at a bar with some BBIers...itd be fun
RE: Did Schoen see Williams decline before most fans are now seeing or
For zero sacks and a non-existent run defense thus far
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
More concerned with Thibs, who is making no impact.
Agreed...but Thibs aint making $20MM++
BTW I deleted that game meet up yesterday because my plans changed...do you live in NYC?
I do want to meet at a bar with some BBIers...itd be fun
Yep, this is also what the Giants wanted to see from those three players on gamedays. McKinney might get a little longer leash, but I'm expecting the other two to be elsewhere in '24, and the Giants to reallocate the cap savings.
For zero sacks and a non-existent run defense thus far
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Has been a complete no show so far this season. Hopefully he picks it up because we need him. I’m just glad the Giants didn’t extend him like many on here wanted. He won’t be on the team next year.
A bigger concern is why no one on this team can bring any pressure from the edge.
Thibs is the most easily blocked edge rusher in the league. Someone should tell him try and avoid being engaged by the Tackle instead of running right at him. And by the way, his football speed doesn't look all that fast.
RE: I have a longer term view - meaning next season and beyond
For zero sacks and a non-existent run defense thus far
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Well, at least he didn't extend LW and he'll be gone at this rate, hopefully along with the other DG "core guy" McKinney who is pioneering the concept of the non-playmaking playmaking safety.
RE: RE: RE: A gazillion dollars tied up at the DT position
For zero sacks and a non-existent run defense thus far
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Well, at least he didn't extend LW and he'll be gone at this rate, hopefully along with the other DG "core guy" McKinney who is pioneering the concept of the non-playmaking playmaking safety.
Bingo. Safeties who can't tackle and DL who can't make plays can go.
may have had that sudden ‘Lost It ‘that happens to RBs and WRs rather than diminishing talent year to year.
Unless it’s an injury, we’ll know by week 5.
How much Better Would OurPass Rush be With Parsons There?
Still makes me sick that they passed on Michah Parsons for Kadarius Toney. He would have been our modern day Lawrence Taylor. Its the Randy White mistake Part II
he's one of the guys at the top of the list of concerns
The front 6-7 is way underperforming. I think the D did tighten up for the last 20 min or so, which is encouraging, but we also benefitted big time from 4 drive killing penalties by the cards in that time. Hooray for drive killing penalties for the other guys!
Quite the overstatement that he was blocked by Hernandez. He is double teamed almost every play he is out there. Rewatch it.
The issue is their 2 best players on the DL get doubled almost all the time and no one else gets any pressure or can beat 1 on 1
KT was getting blocked by TE/RB tandems
^This, although Williams has gotten pressure in the past when being double teamed. But I agree that the bigger problem is the total lack of edge pressure. KT was invisible, and was easily blocked by TEs and RBs on many plays. Ximines and Basham also did nothing. Dobbs had a ton of time to throw. We needed to blitz to get any pressure.
I do agree that this is likely the last year for Williams, Jackson, and maybe McKinney.
but Leonard Williams didn't start the game. The Giants opened in a 34 with Dexter at NT and Nacho & A'Shawn at DE.
LW came in during the 1st drive when they crossed midfield, and then played in the 34 alignments after that. He actually played OK, better than I thought watching live. FWIW.
For zero sacks and a non-existent run defense thus far
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Why? He didn't pay Williams. He paid FMV for Robinson & Nacho. He locked up our best D player at FMV or better.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Why? He didn't pay Williams. He paid FMV for Robinson & Nacho. He locked up our best D player at FMV or better.
I endorsed re-upping with Sexy and the other FA acquisitions. But I would have moved LW in this past offseason.
His output just doesn't match his cost.
RE: RE: RE: RE: A gazillion dollars tied up at the DT position
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Why? He didn't pay Williams. He paid FMV for Robinson & Nacho. He locked up our best D player at FMV or better.
I endorsed re-upping with Sexy and the other FA acquisitions. But I would have moved LW in this past offseason.
His output just doesn't match his cost.
I agree, vehemently. I think Schoen does exactly that if we had a lesser 2022 season.
Still makes me sick that they passed on Michah Parsons for Kadarius Toney. He would have been our modern day Lawrence Taylor. Its the Randy White mistake Part II
I think every team is regretting passing on him. No one knew he would be this good. The way he moves is inhuman. Not even Taylor (who is the best of all time) moved that quickly.
But this is all hindsight. I see a lot of handwringing threads throughout the forum. It's constant. Every year, someone misses the best players. It happens. Many DEs were taken in front of Strahan. The truth of it is that in addition to whatever (and probably overstated) off-the-field issues, he did not play his senior year. Further, if we did draft him, we would have him - great. But he might also be playing for a coach named Judge and a GM named Gettleman. Drafting him would have been enough perhaps for both of them to keep their jobs.
Whether Thibs and Neal were worth their picks is a separate issue and still TBD. Both need to look better. But I wouldn't take Parsons if it meant the old regime is still in place.
did Williams realize that this is his last year with the Giants and is extending an appropriate level of (lack of) effort?
They're still paying him for this year, correct? Hard to make sense of "extending an appropriate level of (lack of) effort" when no one is asking him to play for free.
Three of those players are Leonard Williams, Adoree, Jackson, and Xavier McKinney.
Two games in I don’t see a reason to offer any of them significant money.
Agreed...but Thibs aint making $20MM++
BTW I deleted that game meet up yesterday because my plans changed...do you live in NYC?
I do want to meet at a bar with some BBIers...itd be fun
Tough for him then since it will be his last year in the NFL at the level he's playing at the moment.
And Pinnock
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
Quote:
More concerned with Thibs, who is making no impact.
Agreed...but Thibs aint making $20MM++
BTW I deleted that game meet up yesterday because my plans changed...do you live in NYC?
I do want to meet at a bar with some BBIers...itd be fun
Would possibly be down for this
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
The issue is their 2 best players on the DL get doubled almost all the time and no one else gets any pressure or can beat 1 on 1
KT was getting blocked by TE/RB tandems
Thibs is the most easily blocked edge rusher in the league. Someone should tell him try and avoid being engaged by the Tackle instead of running right at him. And by the way, his football speed doesn't look all that fast.
Three of those players are Leonard Williams, Adoree, Jackson, and Xavier McKinney.
Two games in I don’t see a reason to offer any of them significant money.
I think all three are gone next year.
He's gone next year
Quote:
For zero sacks and a non-existent run defense thus far
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Well, at least he didn't extend LW and he'll be gone at this rate, hopefully along with the other DG "core guy" McKinney who is pioneering the concept of the non-playmaking playmaking safety.
Quote:
In comment 16211369 Lambuth_Special said:
Quote:
For zero sacks and a non-existent run defense thus far
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Well, at least he didn't extend LW and he'll be gone at this rate, hopefully along with the other DG "core guy" McKinney who is pioneering the concept of the non-playmaking playmaking safety.
Unless it’s an injury, we’ll know by week 5.
The front 6-7 is way underperforming. I think the D did tighten up for the last 20 min or so, which is encouraging, but we also benefitted big time from 4 drive killing penalties by the cards in that time. Hooray for drive killing penalties for the other guys!
Great job you guys!
The issue is their 2 best players on the DL get doubled almost all the time and no one else gets any pressure or can beat 1 on 1
KT was getting blocked by TE/RB tandems
^This, although Williams has gotten pressure in the past when being double teamed. But I agree that the bigger problem is the total lack of edge pressure. KT was invisible, and was easily blocked by TEs and RBs on many plays. Ximines and Basham also did nothing. Dobbs had a ton of time to throw. We needed to blitz to get any pressure.
I do agree that this is likely the last year for Williams, Jackson, and maybe McKinney.
LW wont be here next year.
LW came in during the 1st drive when they crossed midfield, and then played in the 34 alignments after that. He actually played OK, better than I thought watching live. FWIW.
I don't think the Giants could contemplate keeping him & Dex. Too much money at that position and LW is not playing at that level.
RE: Jackson - think the young lions are the future. McKinney will be fine.
Quote:
For zero sacks and a non-existent run defense thus far
This is no shade on Schoen for the Lawrence contract, however, but an example of why you can't have two huge contracts on one position, and why it's good that Schoen didn't restructure him.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Why? He didn't pay Williams. He paid FMV for Robinson & Nacho. He locked up our best D player at FMV or better.
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Why? He didn't pay Williams. He paid FMV for Robinson & Nacho. He locked up our best D player at FMV or better.
I endorsed re-upping with Sexy and the other FA acquisitions. But I would have moved LW in this past offseason.
His output just doesn't match his cost.
Quote:
Excellent point. I've said the same. Way too much money for the DT spot. Schoen should take a lot of criticism for this situation if LW continues to be a ghost.
Why? He didn't pay Williams. He paid FMV for Robinson & Nacho. He locked up our best D player at FMV or better.
I endorsed re-upping with Sexy and the other FA acquisitions. But I would have moved LW in this past offseason.
His output just doesn't match his cost.
I agree, vehemently. I think Schoen does exactly that if we had a lesser 2022 season.
Okereke as the MLB
KT and AO as the edge slash coverage of RBs and TE
5 DBs
I think every team is regretting passing on him. No one knew he would be this good. The way he moves is inhuman. Not even Taylor (who is the best of all time) moved that quickly.
But this is all hindsight. I see a lot of handwringing threads throughout the forum. It's constant. Every year, someone misses the best players. It happens. Many DEs were taken in front of Strahan. The truth of it is that in addition to whatever (and probably overstated) off-the-field issues, he did not play his senior year. Further, if we did draft him, we would have him - great. But he might also be playing for a coach named Judge and a GM named Gettleman. Drafting him would have been enough perhaps for both of them to keep their jobs.
Whether Thibs and Neal were worth their picks is a separate issue and still TBD. Both need to look better. But I wouldn't take Parsons if it meant the old regime is still in place.
Quote:
.
And Pinnock
McFadden was all over the place.
I'm hoping Williams is getting the attention and Sexy Dexy is the beneficiary.
Quote:
In comment 16211342 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.
And Pinnock
McFadden was all over the place.
I'm hoping Williams is getting the attention and Sexy Dexy is the beneficiary.
According to the game thread McFadden was beyond terrible. I didn’t watch so I don’t know. But he was getting shredded by most posters.
They're still paying him for this year, correct? Hard to make sense of "extending an appropriate level of (lack of) effort" when no one is asking him to play for free.