about his big new contract, about the strength of his arm, about his pocket presence, about his vision downfield... or about anything else, I just wanted to remind you that last season, Sy'56 awarded this guy 7 STUD awards, and he will get another one after his performance yesterday. He put the team on his back ending up with over 300 yards passing (70% completion rate) and picked up an additional 60 yards with his legs running for crucial 1st downs (and not to mention a probable pick-6 off of Saquon Barkley's hands if not for Daniel Jones' hustle.)
He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers nor Patrick Mahomes nor Joe Burrow nor any other great QB you want to name. But Daniel Jones in only his second season under Brian Daboll has become THE ONE indispensable player on the New York Giants. Without him, the Giants do not get a sniff at the playoffs last season and they would be sitting at 0-2 as I post this thread.
I think this might be the best post on this thread.
I didn't read the thread end-to-end, who said that?
Implicitly citing Daniel Jones’ lousy performance against Dallas last week is quite perplexing. How would any QB perform with an entire defensive front arriving at the ball a nano-second after he receives the snap? And as for the first half of the Cardinals game, what sort of Daniel Jones stats were you expecting as he sat on the sideline watching the defense getting its teeth kicked in?
I think Daboll taking over play calling says a lot. I wonder if teams have a good read on MK's tendencies as one factor of many in the first half.
Keep up the name calling, dipshit. If it wasn't for me, no one else would even bother replying to your posts - that's how irrelevant you are. And I certainly don't need leadership advice from a feeble old man, but I appreciate your concern.
As for BD taking over the playcalling, has that actually been confirmed?
In the first sentence you dismiss the mere concept of evaluating a "mental state" as absurd, and in the second you admire how great his mental state was in a different game?
I disagree with the overall tone and direction of your Daniel Jones comments. The first half was a debacle because our defense was defeated a dozen ways to Sunday. In that context, how well do you think our QB is going to do while watching most of the first half from the sidelines rooting on a listless defense? And for the few minutes Daniel Jones saw the field in the first half, how well should he have performed with a zero run game and an o-line that looked very shaky?
The Giants had one less possession in the first half (5-4). Part of the reason they watched from the sideline was because the offense couldn’t sustain drives.
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To repeat what he did against Arizona isn’t moving the goalposts. It’s what Jones should be doing.
So if he does what he did in the 2nd half against Zona he will be the best player to ever live. Again sometimes football is more than just the quarterback and other people need to be able to do their jobs
Taking it too literal, but ok.
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The posts around his mental state are completely foolish. I was at the Minnesota game and that place was incredibly loud, couldn't hear anything basically. Loudest atmosphere I've been in for a home football game. He was totally cool/unfazed the whole time. Come on now.
In the first sentence you dismiss the mere concept of evaluating a "mental state" as absurd, and in the second you admire how great his mental state was in a different game?
No, what I'm saying is, it's a moot point. He has shown throughout his career he never gets too up or down in games. He doesn't seem affected by things, one way or the other.
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from behind fashion. He also set a record doing it. This is just what his detractors said he couldn't do. So now they say "well do it again". Keep moving the goalposts anti-Jones crowd. At some point even you will have to see how ridiculous this is.
I didn't read the thread end-to-end, who said that?
It was me, this was my quote:
NoGainDayne : 9/17/2023 7:15 pm : link : reply
let's see what they can do next week
And someone called me a troll for saying that. You literally can't win with the DJFC.
I came back to that thread because I was hard on him in the first half and I wanted to give him credit.
To me that was him saving his and the Giants season after 6 horrible quarters and his worst game ever as his most important one.
My enthusiasm as a result was tempered. People want to keep declaring the DJ as a franchise QB debate over but I'd think people would understand the temperance after the Vikings game when I gave him tons more credit but expressed a worry that he was going to get a big contract and the pressures of that and NY could be tough for him the following season.
I was told on that thread that he was past that.
Every good game people want to act like Jones is going to be the way he played in those moments for good and if anything the only thing we know for sure about Jones is that he can play absolutely lights out and "fold" as Sy said in the following game.
How many times do we have to watch DJ take a step back after a good game before we are allowed to be tempered in our enthusiasm when that happens?
This cycle is just getting very irritating. Some of us are just expected to ignore the history of the data to protect your good feelings.
If he plays poorly on Thursday it is going to be a short week, impossible circumstances, the standard if we win it is him if we lose it isn't BS.
But the fact is I expect him to play poorly, sorry. I'd love to be wrong. But the examples of him playing poorly against good defenses outnumber the ones where he plays well.
The DJFC loves to make it about liking or not liking him. But this is about comfort, and inconsistent players make me uncomfortable. And sorry but he is inconsistent.
I mean if you call yourself a Giants fan - you should be a fan of his. But it’s very apparent some root for him to fail.
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In comment 16211828 PatersonPlank said:
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from behind fashion. He also set a record doing it. This is just what his detractors said he couldn't do. So now they say "well do it again". Keep moving the goalposts anti-Jones crowd. At some point even you will have to see how ridiculous this is.
I didn't read the thread end-to-end, who said that?
It was me, this was my quote:
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Good some life in Jones and the team
NoGainDayne : 9/17/2023 7:15 pm : link : reply
let's see what they can do next week
And someone called me a troll for saying that. You literally can't win with the DJFC.
I came back to that thread because I was hard on him in the first half and I wanted to give him credit.
To me that was him saving his and the Giants season after 6 horrible quarters and his worst game ever as his most important one.
My enthusiasm as a result was tempered. People want to keep declaring the DJ as a franchise QB debate over but I'd think people would understand the temperance after the Vikings game when I gave him tons more credit but expressed a worry that he was going to get a big contract and the pressures of that and NY could be tough for him the following season.
I was told on that thread that he was past that.
Every good game people want to act like Jones is going to be the way he played in those moments for good and if anything the only thing we know for sure about Jones is that he can play absolutely lights out and "fold" as Sy said in the following game.
How many times do we have to watch DJ take a step back after a good game before we are allowed to be tempered in our enthusiasm when that happens?
This cycle is just getting very irritating. Some of us are just expected to ignore the history of the data to protect your good feelings.
If he plays poorly on Thursday it is going to be a short week, impossible circumstances, the standard if we win it is him if we lose it isn't BS.
But the fact is I expect him to play poorly, sorry. I'd love to be wrong. But the examples of him playing poorly against good defenses outnumber the ones where he plays well.
The DJFC loves to make it about liking or not liking him. But this is about comfort, and inconsistent players make me uncomfortable. And sorry but he is inconsistent.
This does not pertain to you in particular except to say that I disagree with your last paragraph and, if you want to pin it on DJFC, you have to acknowledge the "replace Daniel Jones at all cost" contingent of BBI.
Daniel Jones is not a stud QB and that is why he did not get the $50+ Million/year contracts we have seen given out and got one that we are able to extricate ourselves from early on. He definitely has his limitations, but I will say that the shuffling of OL to try and find the right combination did not do him any favors. While some was by necessity, at some point you have to say "this is our first team OL get them reps together."
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errors in your posts again Gdumb. If you want to lead from the front it is important for you to lead from the front.
I think Daboll taking over play calling says a lot. I wonder if teams have a good read on MK's tendencies as one factor of many in the first half.
Keep up the name calling, dipshit. If it wasn't for me, no one else would even bother replying to your posts - that's how irrelevant you are. And I certainly don't need leadership advice from a feeble old man, but I appreciate your concern.
As for BD taking over the playcalling, has that actually been confirmed?
So your mistakes is now my problem. That is Gdumb. Soft and easily rattled.
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I disagree with the overall tone and direction of your Daniel Jones comments. The first half was a debacle because our defense was defeated a dozen ways to Sunday. In that context, how well do you think our QB is going to do while watching most of the first half from the sidelines rooting on a listless defense? And for the few minutes Daniel Jones saw the field in the first half, how well should he have performed with a zero run game and an o-line that looked very shaky?
The Giants had one less possession in the first half (5-4). Part of the reason they watched from the sideline was because the offense couldn’t sustain drives.
The Giants couldn’t sustain drives because one of them was halted by Saquon Barkley’s butterfinger INT. And at least one other was due to an o-line that couldn’t run block or pass block in the first half. So that gave Daniel Jones at best two drives to do something.
This does not pertain to you in particular except to say that I disagree with your last paragraph and, if you want to pin it on DJFC, you have to acknowledge the "replace Daniel Jones at all cost" contingent of BBI.
Daniel Jones is not a stud QB and that is why he did not get the $50+ Million/year contracts we have seen given out and got one that we are able to extricate ourselves from early on. He definitely has his limitations, but I will say that the shuffling of OL to try and find the right combination did not do him any favors. While some was by necessity, at some point you have to say "this is our first team OL get them reps together."
I agree with you, but I was more in the franchise tag him than replace at all costs camp.
Given his dependence on other players to do well (and that is what the impossible circumstances" people say) I'd say that it is too much of the cap to invest in him.
In the games he has played poorly he has 100% faced overall tough conditions but absolving him of any blame is just as off base as placing it squarely on his shoulders. But at least the shoulders thing to me makes more sense when he is taking up close to 20% of the cap and playing the most important position in team sports.
Yet for some odd reason it is the people that are absolving him that what FULL absolution and the people on the other side arguing and acknowledging his tough situation and wanting him to get a share of the blame too. That too me is what is logically difficult to understand.
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In comment 16211829 ajr2456 said:
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To repeat what he did against Arizona isn’t moving the goalposts. It’s what Jones should be doing.
So if he does what he did in the 2nd half against Zona he will be the best player to ever live. Again sometimes football is more than just the quarterback and other people need to be able to do their jobs
Taking it too literal, but ok.
You have non stop crapped on the guy. Even when he does something historic you come up with things he needs to do better. It's old and tired. Just admit you hate him and move on. We all get it!
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In comment 16211818 Lines of Scrimmage said:
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errors in your posts again Gdumb. If you want to lead from the front it is important for you to lead from the front.
I think Daboll taking over play calling says a lot. I wonder if teams have a good read on MK's tendencies as one factor of many in the first half.
Keep up the name calling, dipshit. If it wasn't for me, no one else would even bother replying to your posts - that's how irrelevant you are. And I certainly don't need leadership advice from a feeble old man, but I appreciate your concern.
As for BD taking over the playcalling, has that actually been confirmed?
So your mistakes is now my problem. That is Gdumb. Soft and easily rattled.
Show me one mistake. I'm sure it must be at least as obvious as "so your mistakes is now my problem."
The only way you'd rattle me is you showed up during an earthquake.
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This does not pertain to you in particular except to say that I disagree with your last paragraph and, if you want to pin it on DJFC, you have to acknowledge the "replace Daniel Jones at all cost" contingent of BBI.
Daniel Jones is not a stud QB and that is why he did not get the $50+ Million/year contracts we have seen given out and got one that we are able to extricate ourselves from early on. He definitely has his limitations, but I will say that the shuffling of OL to try and find the right combination did not do him any favors. While some was by necessity, at some point you have to say "this is our first team OL get them reps together."
I agree with you, but I was more in the franchise tag him than replace at all costs camp.
Given his dependence on other players to do well (and that is what the impossible circumstances" people say) I'd say that it is too much of the cap to invest in him.
In the games he has played poorly he has 100% faced overall tough conditions but absolving him of any blame is just as off base as placing it squarely on his shoulders. But at least the shoulders thing to me makes more sense when he is taking up close to 20% of the cap and playing the most important position in team sports.
Yet for some odd reason it is the people that are absolving him that what FULL absolution and the people on the other side arguing and acknowledging his tough situation and wanting him to get a share of the blame too. That too me is what is logically difficult to understand.
And there are people who put 100% of the blame on him, want to spend the 7th overall pick on Malik Willis and constantly take QB's with 1st round picks until we get one right. They refuse to acknowledge the situation around him and say that an NFL QB has to make "off script" plays and if Jones can't he is not an NFL QB and needs to be replaced. Nevermind the fact that the grass is not always greener and they want to spend resources that could be used to fix the problems around Jones on a QB gamble. Because suddenly being Arizona with Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray, and soon Caleb Williams is where we really want to be.
You told me you are very intelligent so you can find the other.
You have non stop crapped on the guy. Even when he does something historic you come up with things he needs to do better. It's old and tired. Just admit you hate him and move on. We all get it!
First of all, I’ve been very complimentary of Jones’ performance yesterday.
It’s also true that Jones has to improve and show the ceiling more often. 2 quarters out of the last 12 isn’t enough. Multiple things are allowed to be true at the same time.
The Giants had one less possession in the first half (5-4). Part of the reason they watched from the sideline was because the offense couldn’t sustain drives.
The Giants couldn’t sustain drives because one of them was halted by Saquon Barkley’s butterfinger INT. And at least one other was due to an o-line that couldn’t run block or pass block in the first half. So that gave Daniel Jones at best two drives to do something.
The Barkley interception was preceded by the Slayton under throw. So there were multiple people responsible for that drive getting stalled.
You told me you are very intelligent so you can find the other.
You can't even form full sentences after 8pm and you're on me for that? The missing word (think) is present in the sentence that preceded that error, and it was clearly a typo (as was the their/them error a few lines later), which is more than anyone can say for your factually inaccurate takes.
Take your meds and wipe your drool. Wouldn't want the nurses to put you to bed before your Matlock reruns.
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I'm a little sick of the decisive "he's not a top 10", "he's not a top 5"...Josh Allen, Burrow, Hurts -- they're supposed to be galaxies away? I'm not seeing that. All are human, and it's not a rigid list - it's fluid. Jones is in the mix for sure. I'm not trashing the elite QBs - but WTF? Jones did what elite QBs do yesterday. If Hyatt is a beast, Waller lives up to expectations, Slayton, Robinson, Shep - with a serviceable O-line - Jones can definitely make the top 3. And even then, who knows - maybe its just top 3 for that year, and he slides down. Nothing is permanent. But Jones is a sure talent.
I would say there are many quarterbacks in the NFL that could have done what he did in the second half yesterday
Ohhh my freaking lord.
When will it f-ing stop.
If it was called a catch on the field it wouldn’t have been overturned. One of those plays that there wasn’t enough to overturn either way
Do you want it in the first half, or second half.....or both?
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The Giants had one less possession in the first half (5-4). Part of the reason they watched from the sideline was because the offense couldn’t sustain drives.
The Giants couldn’t sustain drives because one of them was halted by Saquon Barkley’s butterfinger INT. And at least one other was due to an o-line that couldn’t run block or pass block in the first half. So that gave Daniel Jones at best two drives to do something.
The Barkley interception was preceded by the Slayton under throw. So there were multiple people responsible for that drive getting stalled.
It's on Barkley.
The gameplan against Dallas really got thrown through the roof when they blocked the kick and scored, and had the Barkley pick 6.
I would have liked to see what they could have done that game if they score a touchdown on that first drive. Wishful thinking, Iknow.
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Gdumb. "I don't the OL deserves"
You told me you are very intelligent so you can find the other.
You can't even form full sentences after 8pm and you're on me for that? The missing word (think) is present in the sentence that preceded that error, and it was clearly a typo (as was the their/them error a few lines later), which is more than anyone can say for your factually inaccurate takes.
Take your meds and wipe your drool. Wouldn't want the nurses to put you to bed before your Matlock reruns.
Sorry to see your NPD persist. I told you that it was hard to treat and another example from you as to why that is the case.
I think a good start for you would be recognizing you are not very smart and build on that. Good luck.
The Barkley interception was preceded by the Slayton under throw. So there were multiple people responsible for that drive getting stalled.
It's on Barkley.
But if he hits Slayton who had three steps on the corner the drive is completely different.
You’re proving NGD’s point. All the good can’t only be Jones’ doing and all the bad play can’t just always be everyone else’s fault.
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The Barkley interception was preceded by the Slayton under throw. So there were multiple people responsible for that drive getting stalled.
It's on Barkley.
But if he hits Slayton who had three steps on the corner the drive is completely different.
You’re proving NGD’s point. All the good can’t only be Jones’ doing and all the bad play can’t just always be everyone else’s fault.
This is really getting silly.
One was an incomplete pass on a timing pattern.
The other was a dropped/tipped pass that resulted in an INT that resulted in points for the other team.
As far as the drive being completely different if the Slayton ball was complete, we have no idea what would have happened. A multitude of things could have happened, good or bad.
But we do know what happened after the play to Barkley.
Barkley played stalled/ruined the drive.
The gameplan against Dallas really got thrown through the roof when they blocked the kick and scored, and had the Barkley pick 6.
I would have liked to see what they could have done that game if they score a touchdown on that first drive. Wishful thinking, Iknow.
I think it goes beyond that. Jones isn't really better throwing on the run, but mostly because it's much more difficult to throw on the run, mechanically speaking (and this applies to any QB, not DJ in particular). But where you see those great moments from DJ is when he isn't thinking, he's just playing ball. He's reacting. He's letting his reflexes and his instincts do the processing and letting his arm and his legs respond.
As it turns out, that style of play does tend to show up in the same sort of scenarios where you might see DJ throwing on the run, but I don't think it's the action of throwing on the run that makes him more dangerous. In fact, I think he plays better in spite of the higher degree of difficulty because he's just reacting. When he sits in the pocket and reads the field, that's when it seems like he overthrows a receiver or makes some other minor mistake (and sometimes it's not always minor). Conversely, when he just plays football, I think DJ is a much better QB.
It's almost like writing your signature - if you just sign it without thinking about it, it's going to look the same way almost every time - it's repeatable and it's trained in your muscle memory. But if you slow down and think about each letter as you write it, your signature is going to be more inconsistent from one autograph to the next, and it doesn't even benefit from the extra attention that you're giving it.
Purely speculation on my part, but when I watch DJ, I see him as a completely different QB when he's just balling. When he's trying to process everything he either slows down too much or he turns robotic, but when he just reacts to the game in front of him, he's a much better QB and a more lethal weapon for the Giants. Just my POV.
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Jones is so much better when he's airing it out and moving around, throwing on the run.
The gameplan against Dallas really got thrown through the roof when they blocked the kick and scored, and had the Barkley pick 6.
I would have liked to see what they could have done that game if they score a touchdown on that first drive. Wishful thinking, Iknow.
I think it goes beyond that. Jones isn't really better throwing on the run, but mostly because it's much more difficult to throw on the run, mechanically speaking (and this applies to any QB, not DJ in particular). But where you see those great moments from DJ is when he isn't thinking, he's just playing ball. He's reacting. He's letting his reflexes and his instincts do the processing and letting his arm and his legs respond.
As it turns out, that style of play does tend to show up in the same sort of scenarios where you might see DJ throwing on the run, but I don't think it's the action of throwing on the run that makes him more dangerous. In fact, I think he plays better in spite of the higher degree of difficulty because he's just reacting. When he sits in the pocket and reads the field, that's when it seems like he overthrows a receiver or makes some other minor mistake (and sometimes it's not always minor). Conversely, when he just plays football, I think DJ is a much better QB.
It's almost like writing your signature - if you just sign it without thinking about it, it's going to look the same way almost every time - it's repeatable and it's trained in your muscle memory. But if you slow down and think about each letter as you write it, your signature is going to be more inconsistent from one autograph to the next, and it doesn't even benefit from the extra attention that you're giving it.
Purely speculation on my part, but when I watch DJ, I see him as a completely different QB when he's just balling. When he's trying to process everything he either slows down too much or he turns robotic, but when he just reacts to the game in front of him, he's a much better QB and a more lethal weapon for the Giants. Just my POV.
We’ve not agreed much in the past, but you’re spot on here… Mahomes is the same way … just line up, play the game and let it come to you, trust your instincts, react and make plays.
Implicitly citing Daniel Jones’ lousy performance against Dallas last week is quite perplexing. How would any QB perform with an entire defensive front arriving at the ball a nano-second after he receives the snap? And as for the first half of the Cardinals game, what sort of Daniel Jones stats were you expecting as he sat on the sideline watching the defense getting its teeth kicked in?
You can't give credit to the quarterback for positive team performance and then assign all criticism to the coaching staff and other players for poor team performance. It is pure silliness. Let's be clear. DJ stunk for six quarters, along with many other players and coaches, and he was great for two quarters, along with many other players and coaches.
And we need to stop impugning the integrity of posters who are correctly critical of bad quarterback play around here. It is bizarre. If I say that Micah McFadden stunk yesterday, nobody cares. But if I say DJ stunk against Dallas and in the first half against Arizona, I am somehow not a "good fan" of the team. I can assure you, the people who are critical of DJ are loyal Giants fans who want nothing more than to win championships.
And for the record, as to your original post, I will never feel comfortable with DJ as the quarterback of this team. Never have been. Never will be. His ceiling is not what you build an NFL team around. Despite the most intense and indefatigable efforts of his most strident admirers to strangely desire unanimous DJ love, his tally of future Lombardi Trophies shall be the only criterion that will ever sway my point of view.
Just like I will never feel "comfortable" about Micah McFadden as a starting inside linebacker of this team, no matter how often you argue that I should be...
This is really getting silly.
One was an incomplete pass on a timing pattern.
The other was a dropped/tipped pass that resulted in an INT that resulted in points for the other team.
As far as the drive being completely different if the Slayton ball was complete, we have no idea what would have happened. A multitude of things could have happened, good or bad.
But we do know what happened after the play to Barkley.
Barkley played stalled/ruined the drive.
Timing pattern? It was a 9 route that the guy had a walk in touch down for. Cmon let’s stop being silly.
The point is there were multiple reasons why they Giants didn’t play well in the first half, multiple mistakes. Was Barkley’s mistake bigger than Jones’? Absolutely. Did it have a higher chance of success, absolutely. But both were mistakes.
To say Jones only had two drives he could have done something on is being disingenuous and bias. It’s part of the insanity that only the good is Jones’ responsibility and none of the bad.
I think he’s probably a very intelligent guy prone to introspection and self criticism. That’s my guess. I know I’m going to get lampooned for freelance amateur psychiatry but that’s what I think.
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from behind fashion. He also set a record doing it. This is just what his detractors said he couldn't do. So now they say "well do it again". Keep moving the goalposts anti-Jones crowd. At some point even you will have to see how ridiculous this is.
It isn't moving the goal posts--he needs to start doing it more frequently and against better opponents. That's the criticism for me. We don't expect games like yesterday's 2H or the Vikings games like last week every week--but we need them more frequently than we saw last season IMO.
And what QB can do what he did Sunday more frequently?
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The Giants had one less possession in the first half (5-4). Part of the reason they watched from the sideline was because the offense couldn’t sustain drives.
The Giants couldn’t sustain drives because one of them was halted by Saquon Barkley’s butterfinger INT. And at least one other was due to an o-line that couldn’t run block or pass block in the first half. So that gave Daniel Jones at best two drives to do something.
The Barkley interception was preceded by the Slayton under throw. So there were multiple people responsible for that drive getting stalled.
WHAT??? This is a joke, right?
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In comment 16211828 PatersonPlank said:
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from behind fashion. He also set a record doing it. This is just what his detractors said he couldn't do. So now they say "well do it again". Keep moving the goalposts anti-Jones crowd. At some point even you will have to see how ridiculous this is.
Not many quarterbacks can do what he did in the second half period.
Tried to make that point in my post above
It isn't moving the goal posts--he needs to start doing it more frequently and against better opponents. That's the criticism for me. We don't expect games like yesterday's 2H or the Vikings games like last week every week--but we need them more frequently than we saw last season IMO.
And what QB can do what he did Sunday more frequently?
He had three steps on the corner. It should have been a touchdown.
It was definitely an underthrow. But what you say about Slayton is true too. I've seen many wide outs draw pass interference on plays like that. Especially against a rookie corner who doesn't have his head turned.
Totally agree. Slayton does a great job getting open and yes DJ should hit him, but again things aren't perfect, so when Slayton realizes the ball is underthrown it's ADJUSTMENT time.
Slayton does nothing to adjust and I'm not getting on him because he's not a WR1, I understand he's got limitations. Those guys make the great adjustments and turn contested balls into catches.
He wasn’t perfect but he wasn’t the main reason they didn’t score. The int 4-5 drops and sacks and penalities didn’t help. If the kid has time he is Very Good!!!