Why does McKinney get s*** for trying to strip Dobbs?

But there are some unwrites laws
Like “Don’t get pushed back by a QB”

The problem is he didn’t have any momentum and just stood there at contact.

Just a bad look after he got the unnecessary roughness call

I think some ppl might not know what they weere watching. I saw a bunch of posts saying he got “trucked ” or run over or what not. Seemed fairly obvious and imo a higher upside, smarter play to try to get the ball.

In comment 16212523 dancing blue bear said:

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I think some ppl might not know what they weere watching. I saw a bunch of posts saying he got “trucked ” or run over or what not. Seemed fairly obvious and imo a higher upside, smarter play to try to get the ball.

What's weirder to me is people that realized he was going for the strip but still preferred the tackle.

is bush league football. When you let a QB score on a play where you could have delivered a blow, it's pathetic.

tackle there and he has 4 downs to put it in the end zone.

and I’m glad he’s on the squad.

In comment 16212531 bluefin said:

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and I’m glad he’s on the squad.

meant FS

And we both agreed it was a great attempt. The ball was there he almost ripped it out. It was a great attempt and at the 2 I didn’t mind it.

In comment 16212526 WillieYoung said:

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is bush league football. When you let a QB score on a play where you could have delivered a blow, it's pathetic.

I dont think you know what "bush league" means..

In comment 16212535 Tuckrule said:

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And we both agreed it was a great attempt. The ball was there he almost ripped it out. It was a great attempt and at the 2 I didn’t mind it.

The real problems on that play occurred way before Dobbs got to the 2 yard line.

coasting through your D like prime Michael Vick to go up 14 in a game you were supposed to win comfortably.

Pretty sure that's all it is.

In comment 16212531 bluefin said:

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and I’m glad he’s on the squad.

I disagree. McKinney is average and overrated on this board. He had one good year. If he is on this squad next year, it will be on Joe Schoen's terms.

In comment 16212566 Sec_149 said:

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In comment 16212531 bluefin said: Quote: and I’m glad he’s on the squad. I disagree. McKinney is average and overrated on this board. He had one good year. If he is on this squad next year, it will be on Joe Schoen's terms.

He’s not average at all. I’m not a McKinney homer like many here but he’s been lights out the last 2 weeks.

Prevent the TD is 1st priority with a secure tackle. Stripping the ball would be icing on the cake.

In comment 16212598 penkap75 said:

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Prevent the TD is 1st priority with a secure tackle. Stripping the ball would be icing on the cake.

But if he secured the tackle the ball would be on the 2 yard line. 2 yards is not worth trying to go for the turnover?

In comment 16212600 BestFeature said:

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In comment 16212598 penkap75 said: Quote: Prevent the TD is 1st priority with a secure tackle. Stripping the ball would be icing on the cake. But if he secured the tackle the ball would be on the 2 yard line. 2 yards is not worth trying to go for the turnover?

All i can picture is my HS football coach yelling at me (I was a db) if I went for the strip instead of the tackle. But I am also not an NFL safety.

In comment 16212600 BestFeature said:

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In comment 16212598 penkap75 said: Quote: Prevent the TD is 1st priority with a secure tackle. Stripping the ball would be icing on the cake. But if he secured the tackle the ball would be on the 2 yard line. 2 yards is not worth trying to go for the turnover?

It didn’t work though, right?

The qb had all the momentum and ran through him.
Shoulder pads are made for tackling and it's amazing how many players don't use them.

,

By a QB, pretty embarrassing stuff. You make the tackle and it gives the defense a chance at a goal line stand.

.

In comment 16212600 BestFeature said:

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In comment 16212598 penkap75 said: Quote: Prevent the TD is 1st priority with a secure tackle. Stripping the ball would be icing on the cake. But if he secured the tackle the ball would be on the 2 yard line. 2 yards is not worth trying to go for the turnover?

The difference isn't 2 yards, the difference is a TD.

...still chuckle about Dave Brown trucking Deion.

This isn't horseshoes
He needs to make that tackle and let our superstar Dline try to keep the Cards out of the end zone.
Instead , he got run over and made a backup QB look like Jim Brown

be asked in an actual football room.

You gotta get him on the ground there, or stand him up, and the next guy goes for the strip.

You do not concede a TD just because they're at the 2. That's loser talk. It's actually tough to bang it in because the D has a short field.

got his penalty he wasn't moving forward... Dobbs basically slide right into him at full speed. I think McKinney was hesitant of his sliding full speed again so didn't lay a hit and when Dobbs didn't slide he went for the strip because he was hesitant to launch into him again.

Just my opinion.

go for the strip second.

McKinney did a poor job of squaring up, wrap up, etc on more than one occasion.

I remember Julian Love. Average, and maybe even below average athlete. But made up for it with high football IQ and very sound football fundamentals. And he always tackled with proper technique.

In comment 16212608 penkap75 said:

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In comment 16212600 BestFeature said: Quote: In comment 16212598 penkap75 said: Quote: Prevent the TD is 1st priority with a secure tackle. Stripping the ball would be icing on the cake. But if he secured the tackle the ball would be on the 2 yard line. 2 yards is not worth trying to go for the turnover? All i can picture is my HS football coach yelling at me (I was a db) if I went for the strip instead of the tackle. But I am also not an NFL safety.

Maybe at the 50 when you can allow and extra 20 yards. But the downside here was 2 yards.

In comment 16212619 RicFlair said:

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In comment 16212600 BestFeature said: Quote: In comment 16212598 penkap75 said: Quote: Prevent the TD is 1st priority with a secure tackle. Stripping the ball would be icing on the cake. But if he secured the tackle the ball would be on the 2 yard line. 2 yards is not worth trying to go for the turnover? It didn’t work though, right?

And if he tackled him at the 2? And the overwhelmingly likely outcome was a TD anyway. Would that have been considered working?

In comment 16212771 Chris in Philly said:

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In comment 16212600 BestFeature said: Quote: In comment 16212598 penkap75 said: Quote: Prevent the TD is 1st priority with a secure tackle. Stripping the ball would be icing on the cake. But if he secured the tackle the ball would be on the 2 yard line. 2 yards is not worth trying to go for the turnover? The difference isn't 2 yards, the difference is a TD.

I guess technically this is true because it's easier to get 2 yards on 4 downs from the 50 than the 2. But the odds of them getting a TD on 1st and goal from the 2 is probably like 95%.

In comment 16212830 mittenedman said:

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be asked in an actual football room. You gotta get him on the ground there, or stand him up, and the next guy goes for the strip. You do not concede a TD just because they're at the 2. That's loser talk. It's actually tough to bang it in because the D has a short field.

No one's conceding a TD. If he moved away from Dobbs and let him score that would be conceding. He went for a higher upside play.

In comment 16212868 BestFeature said:

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In comment 16212619 RicFlair said: Quote: In comment 16212600 BestFeature said: Quote: In comment 16212598 penkap75 said: Quote: Prevent the TD is 1st priority with a secure tackle. Stripping the ball would be icing on the cake. But if he secured the tackle the ball would be on the 2 yard line. 2 yards is not worth trying to go for the turnover? It didn’t work though, right? And if he tackled him at the 2? And the overwhelmingly likely outcome was a TD anyway. Would that have been considered working?

Yeah, because he didn’t let him score.


Serious question, are you new to the sport?

what his coaches are telling him is 1) stop the ball 2) wait for help to arrive before going for the strip 3) especially given how poorly he tackling the ball carrier in the game and 4) because of where it happened on the field.

Trying to jump routes or freelance instead of playing assignment football.

if McK's hand is an issue, he's typically been a good tackler in the past.

Making excuses for shitty play.

but his strip near the goal line in the Jags game last year was probably the difference between a W and an L.

In that case, he was able to complete the tackle, with the running back coming down just short of the goal line, without the ball.

But McKinney did make a strategic trade-off in having his hand go for the ball, initially, rather than focusing only on wrapping up the ball carrier.

It's an arguable issue.


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what about the other four or five times he got dragged all over the field by Cardinal players? He got physically manhandled a number of different times.

It's one of those situations where if you make the play, great, if you blow it, you hear about it from coaches.

when a Safety/Corner has the chance to hit a Quarterback running in the open field (especially running towards the endzone), I'd prefer that our player attempt to paralyze the Quarterback and then do a line of cocaine off his severed spine ... you know, the old Lawrence Taylor way of playing

In comment 16212877 JonC said:

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what his coaches are telling him is 1) stop the ball 2) wait for help to arrive before going for the strip 3) especially given how poorly he tackling the ball carrier in the game and 4) because of where it happened on the field.

I wasn't commenting on his form when doing it. That's a different argument. But hypothetically going for the strip is not a bad play, it may have been poorly executed though.

In comment 16212898 JonC said:

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if McK's hand is an issue, he's typically been a good tackler in the past.

I’ve commented on this before….I think his off field hand injury last year has had an impact on his play. Just based on the eye test.

In comment 16213054 BestFeature said:

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In comment 16212877 JonC said: Quote: what his coaches are telling him is 1) stop the ball 2) wait for help to arrive before going for the strip 3) especially given how poorly he tackling the ball carrier in the game and 4) because of where it happened on the field. I wasn't commenting on his form when doing it. That's a different argument. But hypothetically going for the strip is not a bad play, it may have been poorly executed though.

No, first assignment is stop the runner and tackle him or fight while support arrives. You can choose to believe what you like, but I'm giving you the coaching fundamentals.

In comment 16213079 JonC said:

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In comment 16213054 BestFeature said: Quote: In comment 16212877 JonC said: Quote: what his coaches are telling him is 1) stop the ball 2) wait for help to arrive before going for the strip 3) especially given how poorly he tackling the ball carrier in the game and 4) because of where it happened on the field. I wasn't commenting on his form when doing it. That's a different argument. But hypothetically going for the strip is not a bad play, it may have been poorly executed though. No, first assignment is stop the runner and tackle him or fight while support arrives. You can choose to believe what you like, but I'm giving you the coaching fundamentals.

I'm thinking probabilitistically. 10 years ago Daboll going for two down 28-14 would have been considering poor coaching fundamentals. It's similar thinking looking at probability, risk, and reward. You're talking about football fundamentals from like the 60s. We're having a different conversation.

I'm trying to think consistently with how analytics looks at the game. Not how Vince Lombardi looked at the game. Vince Lombardi would also not go for it on 4th down most likely like they do currently.

Bottom line is if the probability of the strip and recovery is higher than the probability of the Giants keeping the Cardinals from scoring a point the strip is the better play. Now if his execution of the strip attempt sucked then criticize the execution of the strip attempt not the strip attempt.

Stop the ball, live for the next play. I don't know what the analytics would say, but I'd wager producing a forced fumble is a significantly low probability vs the whole defense forcing a FG kick. You can go for the strip, but you got to wrap the ball carrier first so you've got a fallback. It's not rocket science.

In comment 16213186 JonC said:

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Stop the ball, live for the next play. I don't know what the analytics would say, but I'd wager producing a forced fumble is a significantly low probability vs the whole defense forcing a FG kick. You can go for the strip, but you got to wrap the ball carrier first so you've got a fallback. It's not rocket science.

Ok, both solid points. Maybe I misreading the posts but it seems like the decision of going for the strip has been criticized and not only the execution. That said if you think getting a strip there was lower probability than stopping the Cards from scoring then it was a dumb play. If it was a poorly attempted strip but the idea for the strip wasn't a bad one then it's separate conversation.