what happens if ezeudu looks great at LT on Thursday night and neal struggles? I know its an unlikely scenario, but this staff wants to win. and they want their offense to produce. and they want their QB investment to look smart. If Ezeudu looks great against a ferocious dline, are we sure there's no chance of a move at RT this season?
what happens if ezeudu looks great at LT on Thursday night and neal struggles?
There's no guarantee that the switch from left to right would be a smooth one for Ezeudu. If Neal's problems persist or worsen, we could find that the best OL combination includes Ezeudu at left tackle and Thomas at right tackle.
Disappointing that Sy didn’t see much improvement in Neal. I agree we need to give him a full season before considering any permanent change.
Can’t wait to see more of Hyatt. Giants haven’t had a deep threat like him in forever. Opens up so much. I think we’re going to see huge passing numbers from DJ this year; just took awhile to get untracked.
The D has been so disappointing. Sy was ok with McKinney; I don’t think he’s playing up to expectations. I agree the bigger issues are with the front seven. I think we load the box and try to make Purdy beat us with his arm. No way this D is as bad as it’s looked so far; time for them to step up on Thursday.
in regards to moving Neal to guard, you emphatically say that's not even a thought. Is that just for in season (which I tend to agree with) or period?
If Neal struggles all year at tackle, is it not worth looking at him at guard, and seeing if Ezuedu is better suited at RT? If you are opposed at trying Neal at guard, why? Is there something about him as a scout that you don't feel he's a fit there at all?
For this season - moving Neal should not be considered an option. Part of the issue with Neal is this is the first season he is playing the same position two years in a row since high school. He deserves the year to fix mistakes. This is not an. ability problem.
Ezeudu is worth a look at RT if Neal actually gets to a point where it is unbearable.
1. The Neal hold that negated a TD...do you think that's even called if DJ throws on schedule? I don't.
2. Consecutive time outs...I'm not sure I'd hold that against them too stringently. For the first part, there WAS a play run between, but was blown dead (a false start). And we also don't know what the coaches were seeing on the field. If they saw an alignment issue, or some other schematic issue that they were not happy with, call the time out. Who gives a crap about 5 yards there when all you need to do is prevent a touchdown or defensive penalty?
I believe the hold occurred after Jones tuck and ran - so no. Probably not called. Still deserved to get knocked for it.
Understood on the penalty. Based on Daboll's reaction - he was surprised he got penalized. Perhaps I am wrong.
but let's not forget about Ojulari. He hasn't generated any pass-rush, either. And Mr. 30 million dollar cap hit Leonard Williams hasn't made any impact yet, either.
These guys have to wake up.
Just as a point of reference Sunday was Neal’s 15th start
He’s still 2 games shy of a modern full NFL season.
I don’t see why that should matter any more than DJ’s OL or offensive weapons. We need to jump to conclusions as often and as soon as possible. It’s how we roll.
they seemed to be genuinely happy at the start of the season. Oof I'm just glad I didn't read 1st half game thread.
That stretch of bad football didn't vanish.
Jones was kind of sort of bad, definitely not good, scary to think the meltdown someone like Glennon would have had. But its stretching it to blame him and his performance for the team's brutal start.
So IF there is no improvement from Neal after x number of games, you’d propose benching Neal and putting Ezeudu at RT rather than moving Neal to RG the same time you’d reluctantly put Ezeudu at RT (effectively giving up on Neal as RT)?
So IF there is no improvement from Neal after x number of games, you’d propose benching Neal and putting Ezeudu at RT rather than moving Neal to RG the same time you’d reluctantly put Ezeudu at RT (effectively giving up on Neal as RT)?
You wouldn't move two inexperienced guys to the same side of the line especially if Neal has not precticed as RG. Ezeudu has played/practice a few positions on the line. If McKethan is playing well, you leave him there alongside Ezeudu where they may have actually played alongside each other even if only in college.
So IF there is no improvement from Neal after x number of games, you’d propose benching Neal and putting Ezeudu at RT rather than moving Neal to RG the same time you’d reluctantly put Ezeudu at RT (effectively giving up on Neal as RT)?
You wouldn't move two inexperienced guys to the same side of the line especially if Neal has not precticed as RG. Ezeudu has played/practice a few positions on the line. If McKethan is playing well, you leave him there alongside Ezeudu where they may have actually played alongside each other even if only in college.
I agree and I think Neal having Glowinski next to him has hurt Neal's development
they seemed to be genuinely happy at the start of the season. Oof I'm just glad I didn't read 1st half game thread.
That stretch of bad football didn't vanish.
Jones was kind of sort of bad, definitely not good, scary to think the meltdown someone like Glennon would have had. But its stretching it to blame him and his performance for the team's brutal start.
Mike Glennons play was one of the reasons why I learned to love Jones as our QB. When Jones was hurt and Glennon (who had been a starter) came in, it was shocking how much the warts Jones covered up.
So IF there is no improvement from Neal after x number of games, you’d propose benching Neal and putting Ezeudu at RT rather than moving Neal to RG the same time you’d reluctantly put Ezeudu at RT (effectively giving up on Neal as RT)?
I would look at moving Neal to LG and keep McKethan at RG so your OL would be Thomas-Neal-Schmitz-McKethan-Ezeudu
Could not agree more with assessment of the defense. Right now it is terrible. We did not have great seats for the game Sunday but it was clear from our seats that our DL was being handled with relative ease by the Cardinals OL. Right now KT and Neal are both playing well below their draft positions at Nos. 5 and 7. Why? Was it a mistake in scouting or have the coaches just not figured out how to help these players realize their potential. I prefer to think that the second half was the beginning of improvement and while I do not expect a win this week I would hope for the improved play to continue.
commentary about missing on picks 5 and 7 in last years draft. Do those know that the 49ers traded up to get Trey Lance 3rd overall? Probably more draft capital than the number 5 and 7 overall? Lots of examples of top 10 picks not panning out.
Also, they don't make the playoffs last year without Tibs. he was worth the pick just for that after the last 5 miserable seasons. He's got talent, season is 17 games, not 2.
In regards to Neal, Thomas was a bust early in year 2 also, need to give it more time. It is concerning for sure, but some guys do turn the corner. If he doesn't, getting another RT is certainly doable and not a huge setback.
Time to use 3 dt and concentrate on stopping the run. Right now we are stopping nothing. Can we at least stop the run. Put the opposing team in 3rd and long and then blitz to pressure the qb.
RE: RE: Sy’s “Ezeudu is worth a look at RT if Neal …”
So IF there is no improvement from Neal after x number of games, you’d propose benching Neal and putting Ezeudu at RT rather than moving Neal to RG the same time you’d reluctantly put Ezeudu at RT (effectively giving up on Neal as RT)?
If Neal continues to hurt the team then benching him for a few games would be better for his career (and the team) than being beaten weekly at RT or thrown into a new position.
It would give him time to work strictly on technique instead of time spent game-planning. He can resume his play when he and the staff are confident in him and have a shortened season as a health bonus.
they seemed to be genuinely happy at the start of the season. Oof I'm just glad I didn't read 1st half game thread.
That stretch of bad football didn't vanish.
Jones was kind of sort of bad, definitely not good, scary to think the meltdown someone like Glennon would have had. But its stretching it to blame him and his performance for the team's brutal start.
But equally, you don't have to call people who make criticisms of his play 'haters.' If BBI contributors can criticise Thibodeaux, Neal, Glowinski, Saquon, then they should also be allowed to make criticisms of Jones. I don't know why you can't handle that and need to resort to name calling, which frankly seems immature.
I know you usually don’t spend the #7 pick on a guard
But I think he could be like the sheriff was in Washington or William Roberts (for you oldies like me) who came out of OSU as a left tackle but was a better guard.
If the San Francisco defense eats us alive and we struggle on offense due to our young, injured line it will be a long first half of the season for sure.
The defense is surely better than this mess right? I dunno...
But rookie corners and Thibs not seemingly developing hurts.
If the San Francisco defense eats us alive and we struggle on offense due to our young, injured line it will be a long first half of the season for sure.
The defense is surely better than this mess right? I dunno...
But rookie corners and Thibs not seemingly developing hurts.
SF could make the super bowl this year. The Giants aren't at their level yet. You just hope they're competitive and no season-ending injuries. Part of me expects an ugly game but it wouldn't change my outlook on the season if it was.
If the San Francisco defense eats us alive and we struggle on offense due to our young, injured line it will be a long first half of the season for sure.
The defense is surely better than this mess right? I dunno...
But rookie corners and Thibs not seemingly developing hurts.
Rookie corners aren’t developing? Wtf? That’s about the worst take I’ve seen in awhile.
rookie second round center JMS (please don't mention his age) has solid technique but Neal a high number one still doesn't.
Well, one has played the same position every year, while the other has played a different position every year. Schmitz has not had to switch his technique from righthanded to lefthanded. Going from LG to RT to LT back to RT everything has gone backwards each year for Neal until this one. Wonder how Schmitz would do if he only had to change and snap lefthanded without any of the other techniques changes Neal has had to deal with?
I've watched plays where the backs are in pass protection, including chips. And the TEs. Does the offense suffer from a lack of FB or blocking TEs? With SB out, our RB corps is on the smaller side yes/no?
My takeaways are similar: Neal & Thibs need to develop and quickly
We will know a lot more about this team on Thursday. If they come out strong, even a FG drive if they win the toss, followed by a strong defensive stand then you know they are with Daboll 100% and have shored up some serious deficiencies.
They definitely can't come out flat and be down 14 - 0 against this pass rush.
I think Thibs will come on but Neal I now have concerns with him simply because of his technique issues. Again, let's see them for a few more games.
But if Thibodeux, Neal, Banks, Hawkins, Schmitt, Bellinger, Ezedeu, McEthan, Riley, Hyatt all come on as the season moves along this team could really blossom late when the schedule gets easier and they can rally. I had the Giants at 9 - 8 due to schedule and youth at CB and I'm sticking to it but if we should somehow catch San Francisco napping well that would be huge!
what happens if ezeudu looks great at LT on Thursday night and neal struggles? I know its an unlikely scenario, but this staff wants to win. and they want their offense to produce. and they want their QB investment to look smart. If Ezeudu looks great against a ferocious dline, are we sure there's no chance of a move at RT this season?
Was thinking the exact same thing. If Evan Neal does not lift his game from the basement, gotta think Brian Daboll will be very tempted by shifting Ezoudu over to the right side.
Given Dabol s track record, given your scenario, I think there s little doubt they make that move
...Given Dabol s track record, given your scenario, I think there s little doubt they make that move
Dunno how this plays out with Neal, but what you and M.S. posit makes much more sense than some above and elsewhere proposing that AT move to RT.
Hypothetically, should Ezedeu be forced to start at LT and has a superb game while Neal struggles at RT despite help; well, football is about winning now so if the staff KNEW Ezedeu could handle RT and be an upgrade then yes a move could be made NOW. However, I doubt it.
The best scenario we can possibly see is for Thomas to start and dominate LT and for Neal to continue to show solid progress and develop his pass protect. Ezedeu could focus on swing tackle duties as well as OG and be a very important cog for the line as he'll surely play a lot due to injuries, breaks and the like.
And Mr. 30 million dollar cap hit Leonard Williams hasn't made any impact yet, either.
Sy credits him for 2 pressures, PFR credits him for 1, which is better than the zero he had the week before.
If he's going to operate as a space or double team eater, the Giants are much better off paying 5M to a guy like Robinson, and not 20M+ to Williams.
I would not be surprised if next year guys like Williams, Barkley, Shepard, Glowinski, maybe Jackson are all gone as we continue to reshape the team and consider the cap for future signings. If Belton shows he can do the job McKinney may even walk.
Williams a good player but not $30m but what can you do he came with the team?
Is Thomas definitely out Thursday?
Can’t wait to see more of Hyatt. Giants haven’t had a deep threat like him in forever. Opens up so much. I think we’re going to see huge passing numbers from DJ this year; just took awhile to get untracked.
The D has been so disappointing. Sy was ok with McKinney; I don’t think he’s playing up to expectations. I agree the bigger issues are with the front seven. I think we load the box and try to make Purdy beat us with his arm. No way this D is as bad as it’s looked so far; time for them to step up on Thursday.
At least a half-season. I lean more toward full
I've never seen anything like that. The Jake Elliot 61 yard field goal did them in.
I still think (the year prior) the Giants win that game in GB if DRC doesn't go down with a hammy.
If Neal struggles all year at tackle, is it not worth looking at him at guard, and seeing if Ezuedu is better suited at RT? If you are opposed at trying Neal at guard, why? Is there something about him as a scout that you don't feel he's a fit there at all?
For this season - moving Neal should not be considered an option. Part of the issue with Neal is this is the first season he is playing the same position two years in a row since high school. He deserves the year to fix mistakes. This is not an. ability problem.
Ezeudu is worth a look at RT if Neal actually gets to a point where it is unbearable.
1. The Neal hold that negated a TD...do you think that's even called if DJ throws on schedule? I don't.
2. Consecutive time outs...I'm not sure I'd hold that against them too stringently. For the first part, there WAS a play run between, but was blown dead (a false start). And we also don't know what the coaches were seeing on the field. If they saw an alignment issue, or some other schematic issue that they were not happy with, call the time out. Who gives a crap about 5 yards there when all you need to do is prevent a touchdown or defensive penalty?
I believe the hold occurred after Jones tuck and ran - so no. Probably not called. Still deserved to get knocked for it.
Understood on the penalty. Based on Daboll's reaction - he was surprised he got penalized. Perhaps I am wrong.
We should have a clear picture after Thursday night's game. SF pass rush is top 5 in the league, at worst.
Foundational players would be amazing. Contributing players would be a step in the right direction.
Clearly right: DJ maneuvered between two pass rushers and as he went by EN, Neal contined his grip on the D lineman's jersey.
These guys have to wake up.
I was saying that last season and was beaten like a rag doll on this forum lol. Last year I saw him fall over what seemed like a billion times.
I don’t see why that should matter any more than DJ’s OL or offensive weapons. We need to jump to conclusions as often and as soon as possible. It’s how we roll.
That stretch of bad football didn't vanish.
Quote:
they seemed to be genuinely happy at the start of the season. Oof I'm just glad I didn't read 1st half game thread.
That stretch of bad football didn't vanish.
Jones was kind of sort of bad, definitely not good, scary to think the meltdown someone like Glennon would have had. But its stretching it to blame him and his performance for the team's brutal start.
You wouldn't move two inexperienced guys to the same side of the line especially if Neal has not precticed as RG. Ezeudu has played/practice a few positions on the line. If McKethan is playing well, you leave him there alongside Ezeudu where they may have actually played alongside each other even if only in college.
Quote:
So IF there is no improvement from Neal after x number of games, you’d propose benching Neal and putting Ezeudu at RT rather than moving Neal to RG the same time you’d reluctantly put Ezeudu at RT (effectively giving up on Neal as RT)?
You wouldn't move two inexperienced guys to the same side of the line especially if Neal has not precticed as RG. Ezeudu has played/practice a few positions on the line. If McKethan is playing well, you leave him there alongside Ezeudu where they may have actually played alongside each other even if only in college.
I agree and I think Neal having Glowinski next to him has hurt Neal's development
But AT developed fine with complete ass next to him.
Quote:
In comment 16212870 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
they seemed to be genuinely happy at the start of the season. Oof I'm just glad I didn't read 1st half game thread.
That stretch of bad football didn't vanish.
Jones was kind of sort of bad, definitely not good, scary to think the meltdown someone like Glennon would have had. But its stretching it to blame him and his performance for the team's brutal start.
Mike Glennons play was one of the reasons why I learned to love Jones as our QB. When Jones was hurt and Glennon (who had been a starter) came in, it was shocking how much the warts Jones covered up.
Oof I'm just surprised you know how to read.
I would look at moving Neal to LG and keep McKethan at RG so your OL would be Thomas-Neal-Schmitz-McKethan-Ezeudu
Also, they don't make the playoffs last year without Tibs. he was worth the pick just for that after the last 5 miserable seasons. He's got talent, season is 17 games, not 2.
In regards to Neal, Thomas was a bust early in year 2 also, need to give it more time. It is concerning for sure, but some guys do turn the corner. If he doesn't, getting another RT is certainly doable and not a huge setback.
He seems stuck on the 5 db alignment.
Time to use 3 dt and concentrate on stopping the run. Right now we are stopping nothing. Can we at least stop the run. Put the opposing team in 3rd and long and then blitz to pressure the qb.
It would give him time to work strictly on technique instead of time spent game-planning. He can resume his play when he and the staff are confident in him and have a shortened season as a health bonus.
Quote:
In comment 16212870 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
they seemed to be genuinely happy at the start of the season. Oof I'm just glad I didn't read 1st half game thread.
That stretch of bad football didn't vanish.
Jones was kind of sort of bad, definitely not good, scary to think the meltdown someone like Glennon would have had. But its stretching it to blame him and his performance for the team's brutal start.
But equally, you don't have to call people who make criticisms of his play 'haters.' If BBI contributors can criticise Thibodeaux, Neal, Glowinski, Saquon, then they should also be allowed to make criticisms of Jones. I don't know why you can't handle that and need to resort to name calling, which frankly seems immature.
The defense is surely better than this mess right? I dunno...
But rookie corners and Thibs not seemingly developing hurts.
The defense is surely better than this mess right? I dunno...
But rookie corners and Thibs not seemingly developing hurts.
SF could make the super bowl this year. The Giants aren't at their level yet. You just hope they're competitive and no season-ending injuries. Part of me expects an ugly game but it wouldn't change my outlook on the season if it was.
The defense is surely better than this mess right? I dunno...
But rookie corners and Thibs not seemingly developing hurts.
Rookie corners aren’t developing? Wtf? That’s about the worst take I’ve seen in awhile.
Well, one has played the same position every year, while the other has played a different position every year. Schmitz has not had to switch his technique from righthanded to lefthanded. Going from LG to RT to LT back to RT everything has gone backwards each year for Neal until this one. Wonder how Schmitz would do if he only had to change and snap lefthanded without any of the other techniques changes Neal has had to deal with?
Should Neal eventually be moved to guard?
I've watched plays where the backs are in pass protection, including chips. And the TEs. Does the offense suffer from a lack of FB or blocking TEs? With SB out, our RB corps is on the smaller side yes/no?
They definitely can't come out flat and be down 14 - 0 against this pass rush.
I think Thibs will come on but Neal I now have concerns with him simply because of his technique issues. Again, let's see them for a few more games.
But if Thibodeux, Neal, Banks, Hawkins, Schmitt, Bellinger, Ezedeu, McEthan, Riley, Hyatt all come on as the season moves along this team could really blossom late when the schedule gets easier and they can rally. I had the Giants at 9 - 8 due to schedule and youth at CB and I'm sticking to it but if we should somehow catch San Francisco napping well that would be huge!
Quote:
what happens if ezeudu looks great at LT on Thursday night and neal struggles? I know its an unlikely scenario, but this staff wants to win. and they want their offense to produce. and they want their QB investment to look smart. If Ezeudu looks great against a ferocious dline, are we sure there's no chance of a move at RT this season?
Was thinking the exact same thing. If Evan Neal does not lift his game from the basement, gotta think Brian Daboll will be very tempted by shifting Ezoudu over to the right side.
Given Dabol s track record, given your scenario, I think there s little doubt they make that move
Dunno how this plays out with Neal, but what you and M.S. posit makes much more sense than some above and elsewhere proposing that AT move to RT.
Quote:
...Given Dabol s track record, given your scenario, I think there s little doubt they make that move
Dunno how this plays out with Neal, but what you and M.S. posit makes much more sense than some above and elsewhere proposing that AT move to RT.
The best scenario we can possibly see is for Thomas to start and dominate LT and for Neal to continue to show solid progress and develop his pass protect. Ezedeu could focus on swing tackle duties as well as OG and be a very important cog for the line as he'll surely play a lot due to injuries, breaks and the like.
Sy credits him for 2 pressures, PFR credits him for 1, which is better than the zero he had the week before.
If he's going to operate as a space or double team eater, the Giants are much better off paying 5M to a guy like Robinson, and not 20M+ to Williams.
Quote:
And Mr. 30 million dollar cap hit Leonard Williams hasn't made any impact yet, either.
Sy credits him for 2 pressures, PFR credits him for 1, which is better than the zero he had the week before.
If he's going to operate as a space or double team eater, the Giants are much better off paying 5M to a guy like Robinson, and not 20M+ to Williams.
Williams a good player but not $30m but what can you do he came with the team?
Quote:
...Given Dabol s track record, given your scenario, I think there s little doubt they make that move
Dunno how this plays out with Neal, but what you and M.S. posit makes much more sense than some above and elsewhere proposing that AT move to RT.
In theory, EZ Ez at LT and AT at RT might make the most sense. My mind will probably change after Thursday.