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FYI... Daboll has not ruled out Barkley against 49ers

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2023 1:19 pm
Probably gamesmanship, but it's out there.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2023 1:20 pm : link
Charlotte Carroll
@charlottecrrll
·
25m
Interesting from Brian Daboll on Saquon Barkley when asked if he's going to be out some time: "I wouldn't count on that."

Followed up on TNF: "I'm not saying that he's out yet. ... He's a quick healer. we're going to take it all the way up to Thursday with him."
Well, all last week he refused to rule out Thomas too.  
Spider56 : 9/19/2023 1:22 pm : link
Even though it was kind of obvious that he wouldn’t / couldn’t play. Dabs learned well from BB.
He's not playing  
crooza172 : 9/19/2023 1:22 pm : link
Why is this even news.......
I think he's lucky if he can play vs Seattle  
JonC : 9/19/2023 1:23 pm : link
.
Gamesmanship  
Breeze_94 : 9/19/2023 1:25 pm : link
Probably not playing on 4 days rest. But he could definitely play against Seattle.

This might alter SF’s prep a bit. And Seattle will likely prepare as if Saquon is playing - even though he might need another week.
RE: He's not playing  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2023 1:25 pm : link
In comment 16212899 crooza172 said:
Quote:
Why is this even news.......


Because the head coach just said it.
Not sure I even understand the gamesmanship take  
UConn4523 : 9/19/2023 1:34 pm : link
why wouldn’t opposing teams gameplan for good players? That player not playing doesn’t mean they are now no longer prepared.

I think this matters way more when you’ve got a hurt QB with a completely different skillset than their backup. But that’s about it.
I'm sure the 9ers...  
bw in dc : 9/19/2023 1:39 pm : link
are really perplexed now. Like Dallas was with Waller.

With or without Barkley, we aren't running on the 9ers.

You beat them with a mobile QB and attacking their secondary.
Maybe not but the docs have.  
Giant John : 9/19/2023 1:40 pm : link
He has no chance
RE: I'm sure the 9ers...  
Metnut : 9/19/2023 1:42 pm : link
In comment 16212919 bw in dc said:
Quote:
are really perplexed now. Like Dallas was with Waller.

With or without Barkley, we aren't running on the 9ers.

You beat them with a mobile QB and attacking their secondary.


Exactly. Unleash the second half gameplan from Sunday and watch the tape of what the Rams (who aren't any more talented than NYG) did to the Niners. Run just enough to keep them honest.
Right, and in other news  
Sky King : 9/19/2023 1:43 pm : link
Aaron Rodgers says he has not been ruled out for Sunday vs. Pats.

"You never know."
hopefully this works as well  
Pork Chop : 9/19/2023 1:44 pm : link
as it did with Waller and the Cowboys.
It probably means the medics have said there isn’t high risk  
UberAlias : 9/19/2023 1:45 pm : link
Of making worse and Barkley said he is feeling better. But in a short week? It would be shocking if he went.
I would assume gamesmanship,  
Everyone Relax : 9/19/2023 1:52 pm : link
but you never know. If it really was just a badly rolled ankle, it's something basketball players play through all the time. That being said I highly doubt he plays Thursday, and I would be very happy if that meant he returns the following Monday.
RE: RE: He's not playing  
Gman11 : 9/19/2023 1:54 pm : link
In comment 16212909 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16212899 crooza172 said:


Quote:


Why is this even news.......



Because the head coach just said it.


When has Daboll given out information other than generalities that you or I could have said? It's like the knight in Monty Python.

I'm  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2023 2:08 pm : link
not sure why this is confusing to some.

Teams will have a totally different game plan for the Giants depending on the availability of Barkley.

Barkley is still vastly underrated on BBI.
RE: I'm  
Rory : 9/19/2023 2:11 pm : link
In comment 16212954 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
not sure why this is confusing to some.

Teams will have a totally different game plan for the Giants depending on the availability of Barkley.

Barkley is still vastly underrated on BBI.


I mean, I totally get it Eric. 🙋🏻‍♂️
They could still make him  
larryflower37 : 9/19/2023 2:12 pm : link
Questionable and active on game day.
It depends how important the open slot for depth is.
Could keep SF guessing.
RE: I'm  
bw in dc : 9/19/2023 2:17 pm : link
In comment 16212954 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
not sure why this is confusing to some.

Teams will have a totally different game plan for the Giants depending on the availability of Barkley.

Barkley is still vastly underrated on BBI.


This has nothing to do with Barkley's impact on the offense.

This has to do with Daboll. He can say whatever he wants. The 9ers will prepare for the Giants with and without SB.

Man I hope they prepare for Barkley  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/19/2023 2:26 pm : link
like he's the only guy we have on offense.

Then when we show up (without Barkley) and a full 11-player unit, SF is gonna be like "Uh oh"...
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/19/2023 2:28 pm : link
If he can play-which I doubt, but WTF do I know?- let him play.
RE: I'm  
bluesince56 : 9/19/2023 2:30 pm : link
In comment 16212954 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
not sure why this is confusing to some.

Teams will have a totally different game plan for the Giants depending on the availability of Barkley.

Barkley is still vastly underrated on BBI.


Barkley is not only player underrated by some here
I think these kinds of things are so funny.  
Beezer : 9/19/2023 2:30 pm : link
Are the Niners going to do a lot of things differently these 2 days now because Barkley MIGHT not miss? Then if/when he DOES arrive in street clothes, will the Niners collectively say, well shit, it's Breida and Brightwell? SHIT! What do we do!!!

So dumb.
RE: I think these kinds of things are so funny.  
bw in dc : 9/19/2023 2:33 pm : link
In comment 16212989 Beezer said:
Quote:
Are the Niners going to do a lot of things differently these 2 days now because Barkley MIGHT not miss? Then if/when he DOES arrive in street clothes, will the Niners collectively say, well shit, it's Breida and Brightwell? SHIT! What do we do!!!

So dumb.


Exactly.

Here's there gameplan for Barkley - let him run or catch the ball and be sure to tackle or hit him below the knee on the bad leg.
Let me do you guys a favor...  
BC Eagles94 : 9/19/2023 2:47 pm : link
I'm ruling him out. Of course he's out. He just sprained his ankle bad enough to be helped off the field, 4 days before the game. He is OUT. Of course Daboll will say he may plays, he wants 49ers to at least waste some prep on possibility of Barkley playing.
...  
christian : 9/19/2023 2:49 pm : link
I suspect Wilk's private thoughts on Barkley playing areI highly encourage it.
bw in dc  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2023 2:59 pm : link
This isn't that hard.

There are only three practices in a regular week.

There are only two walk-throughs this week.

The more you have to prepare for, the harder your job.

The 49ers know they will face a different offense if Barkley plays or doesn't play.
Barkley out makes  
46and2Blue : 9/19/2023 3:03 pm : link
huge difference in both the run and pass. But I think if the niners watch the tape they probably think Daboll is messing with them.
RE: bw in dc  
GiantTuff1 : 9/19/2023 3:06 pm : link
In comment 16213014 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
This isn't that hard.

There are only three practices in a regular week.

There are only two walk-throughs this week.

The more you have to prepare for, the harder your job.

The 49ers know they will face a different offense if Barkley plays or doesn't play.


Right.

And it's the time the opponent wastes preparing for one scenario and not enough for what becomes the true scenario.
I guess it's a good thing  
NINEster : 9/19/2023 3:11 pm : link
that Barkley's backup is a familiar face at Levi's.
RE: bw in dc  
bw in dc : 9/19/2023 3:14 pm : link
In comment 16213014 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
This isn't that hard.

There are only three practices in a regular week.

There are only two walk-throughs this week.

The more you have to prepare for, the harder your job.

The 49ers know they will face a different offense if Barkley plays or doesn't play.


Are you suggesting this creates some kind of competitive advantage for NYG?
So  
Spider43 : 9/19/2023 3:37 pm : link
The NFLPA's ruse is working! Quon's helmet slam really sold it as well...


Trend your salaries back in the right direction, RB's! - ( New Window )
bw in dc  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/19/2023 3:43 pm : link
It means the 49ers have to spend more time considering a different game plan.

Would you rather know what your opponent is going to do or have to take into account a completely different game plan?

This isn't some sort of novel theory on my part, coaches have been doing this for decades.
RE: Right, and in other news  
BMac : 9/19/2023 3:44 pm : link
In comment 16212926 Sky King said:
Quote:
Aaron Rodgers says he has not been ruled out for Sunday vs. Pats.

"You never know."


I heard he's going to play riding a Hoveround.
RE: Man I hope they prepare for Barkley  
BMac : 9/19/2023 3:47 pm : link
In comment 16212985 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
like he's the only guy we have on offense.

Then when we show up (without Barkley) and a full 11-player unit, SF is gonna be like "Uh oh"...


When Jones comes out on the field, 10 feet tall and farting fire, they'll be running back to their locker room.
RE: bw in dc  
UConn4523 : 9/19/2023 3:54 pm : link
In comment 16213055 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It means the 49ers have to spend more time considering a different game plan.

Would you rather know what your opponent is going to do or have to take into account a completely different game plan?

This isn't some sort of novel theory on my part, coaches have been doing this for decades.


In theory this makes sense, but the game plan changing is a good thing for the 49ers. The NFL is all about matchups and accounting for but not having to deal with a plus player on the field is a win.

I bet if you ask Shanahan privately if he’d rather prep for Barkley and have him not plan or prep and have him play, he’d choose the former.
RE: I'm  
djm : 9/19/2023 4:04 pm : link
In comment 16212954 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
not sure why this is confusing to some.

Teams will have a totally different game plan for the Giants depending on the availability of Barkley.

Barkley is still vastly underrated on BBI.


Wait you didn't hear? It doesn't matter whether an all pro caliber RB plays or not. And if the Giants win, I told you all so...if they lose...well they suck anyway.

The whole RB NFL thing has made people nuts.
if you're a good or great player  
djm : 9/19/2023 4:06 pm : link
you're important. If there is a great backup waiting to play, great, but he was a backup for a reason.

Put yourself in a defenders shoes. You would rather face a NYG team without Barkley. It's that simple.
RE: bw in dc  
bw in dc : 9/19/2023 4:11 pm : link
In comment 16213055 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It means the 49ers have to spend more time considering a different game plan.

Would you rather know what your opponent is going to do or have to take into account a completely different game plan?

This isn't some sort of novel theory on my part, coaches have been doing this for decades.


So your view is Daboll has indeed created a competitive advantage.

That's fine, just say it.

I don't think it's as complicated because the 9ers have likely been planning for this game for two weeks. And they should have little trouble adjusting without Barkley because of the quality of personnel they have.

I'd argue the Giants have the bigger task of adjusting their offense without Barkley.
Tiki on the radio yesterday was saying a normal ankle sprain  
BlueHurricane : 9/19/2023 4:15 pm : link
Could/should be taped up and played on.

Don't shoot the messenger.
If it is safe enough...  
TheEvilLurker : 9/19/2023 4:20 pm : link
Have him suit up for one play and be a decoy.

That will show em!
RE: Not sure I even understand the gamesmanship take  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/19/2023 4:30 pm : link
In comment 16212913 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
why wouldn’t opposing teams gameplan for good players? That player not playing doesn’t mean they are now no longer prepared.

I think this matters way more when you’ve got a hurt QB with a completely different skillset than their backup. But that’s about it.

I think the expectation might be that they would prepare differently for a Giants team with Barkley than without. It could change the run/pass ratio, or the types of running plays the Giants run (including more designed runs for DJ, for example), or the short yardage packages, whatever. On a short week, teams are probably forced to prioritize their preparation, and keeping Barkley at least nominally in the mix could force SF to dedicate some of their limited preparation time to two different scenarios.

I don't think we're talking about a monumental advantage here, but I can see at least some potential benefit in having Barkley serve as a decoy of sorts, in terms of SF's preparation.
RE: RE: I'm  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/19/2023 4:34 pm : link
In comment 16213069 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16212954 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


not sure why this is confusing to some.

Teams will have a totally different game plan for the Giants depending on the availability of Barkley.

Barkley is still vastly underrated on BBI.



Wait you didn't hear? It doesn't matter whether an all pro caliber RB plays or not. And if the Giants win, I told you all so...if they lose...well they suck anyway.

The whole RB NFL thing has made people nuts.

No, it matters if he plays because he's a very good player. And it matters because he represents a decent amount of cap room.

When people talk about the devaluation of RBs, the idea is that you repurpose that cap space elsewhere to benefit your team to a greater degree than a RB can. It's not that you should pay for a very good RB and then not use them because they don't matter.

They do matter. They're just not great investments, because they age quickly and get hurt often. This is actually a good example of why RB's are risky investments.

I know you're smarter than this. I just can't figure out why you pretend like you're not.
RE: if you're a good or great player  
bw in dc : 9/19/2023 4:42 pm : link
In comment 16213073 djm said:
Quote:
you're important. If there is a great backup waiting to play, great, but he was a backup for a reason.

Put yourself in a defenders shoes. You would rather face a NYG team without Barkley. It's that simple.


Who is arguing against that?
RE: Tiki on the radio yesterday was saying a normal ankle sprain  
HBart : 9/19/2023 4:50 pm : link
In comment 16213077 BlueHurricane said:
Quote:
Could/should be taped up and played on.

Don't shoot the messenger.

It's not just Tiki. Anyone who's played sports has done and/or seen this. Since we have no idea of Barkley's true medical status, we have really have no idea of anything other than it makes no sense to rule Barkley out at this stage.
RE: RE: RE: I'm  
djm : 9/19/2023 5:23 pm : link
In comment 16213102 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16213069 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16212954 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


not sure why this is confusing to some.

Teams will have a totally different game plan for the Giants depending on the availability of Barkley.

Barkley is still vastly underrated on BBI.



Wait you didn't hear? It doesn't matter whether an all pro caliber RB plays or not. And if the Giants win, I told you all so...if they lose...well they suck anyway.

The whole RB NFL thing has made people nuts.


No, it matters if he plays because he's a very good player. And it matters because he represents a decent amount of cap room.

When people talk about the devaluation of RBs, the idea is that you repurpose that cap space elsewhere to benefit your team to a greater degree than a RB can. It's not that you should pay for a very good RB and then not use them because they don't matter.

They do matter. They're just not great investments, because they age quickly and get hurt often. This is actually a good example of why RB's are risky investments.

I know you're smarter than this. I just can't figure out why you pretend like you're not.


I was joking --plus the thread has nothing to do with cap economics. And also there is overpaying RBs like Miles Sanders (who I said wasn't that good) and weapons like Barkley. Barkley plays well when there is crap around him. Miles Sanders and many others get washed away with the tide because they aren't good enough to rise above it.

BArkley is worth the money. If you can predict the future of health more power to you. BArkley is not at the end. Not by a long shot, in my view.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/19/2023 5:44 pm : link
In comment 16213153 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16213102 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16213069 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16212954 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


not sure why this is confusing to some.

Teams will have a totally different game plan for the Giants depending on the availability of Barkley.

Barkley is still vastly underrated on BBI.



Wait you didn't hear? It doesn't matter whether an all pro caliber RB plays or not. And if the Giants win, I told you all so...if they lose...well they suck anyway.

The whole RB NFL thing has made people nuts.


No, it matters if he plays because he's a very good player. And it matters because he represents a decent amount of cap room.

When people talk about the devaluation of RBs, the idea is that you repurpose that cap space elsewhere to benefit your team to a greater degree than a RB can. It's not that you should pay for a very good RB and then not use them because they don't matter.

They do matter. They're just not great investments, because they age quickly and get hurt often. This is actually a good example of why RB's are risky investments.

I know you're smarter than this. I just can't figure out why you pretend like you're not.



I was joking --plus the thread has nothing to do with cap economics. And also there is overpaying RBs like Miles Sanders (who I said wasn't that good) and weapons like Barkley. Barkley plays well when there is crap around him. Miles Sanders and many others get washed away with the tide because they aren't good enough to rise above it.

BArkley is worth the money. If you can predict the future of health more power to you. BArkley is not at the end. Not by a long shot, in my view.

I can predict that RBs get injured more than players at other positions. I can offer Barkley as evidence that he's not immune to the risks that accompany his position.

Also, just so I'm understanding this properly - health is impossible to predict, but avoiding age-based decline is easy to predict? I think you have that exactly backwards.

The greatest predictor of future injuries is past injuries. It's not perfect, but it's a pretty good indicator. And it definitely applies to Barkley. Not because he's fragile; entirely because he's a RB.
 
christian : 9/19/2023 5:57 pm : link
I feel like I've heard this one before.

Quote:
#Giants star RB Saquon Barkley is believed to have suffered a low-ankle sprain, sources say, an injury that likely knocks him out next week. He’ll have more tests, but he’s best characterized as week-to-week. A fast healer, Barkley will work to miss only one week. 8:28 PM · Oct 10, 2021


One of these times the mythical fast healing Barkley is bound to show up, but the last 2 ankle sprains and ACL tear resulted in just mortal healing times.
You can call it  
pjcas18 : 9/19/2023 6:36 pm : link
gamesmanship or whatever your phrase is, but why rule him out before it's necessary anyway.

People will say it's "Belichickian" and even if Belichick epitomizes it, it's just smart to not reveal anything other than is required by the league at the time it is required.

I don't know the 49ers will do much different with or without Barkley from a game plan standpoint because like the Giants they don't have much time to practice this week either, but I'm not volunteering anything information about anything until I have to if I am a coach.
Jones to Barkley  
eric2425ny : 9/19/2023 9:25 pm : link
“Your ankles sprained man!”

Barkley: “I ain’t got time for swelling”

RE: bw in dc  
bwitz : 9/19/2023 10:13 pm : link
In comment 16213055 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It means the 49ers have to spend more time considering a different game plan.

Would you rather know what your opponent is going to do or have to take into account a completely different game plan?

This isn't some sort of novel theory on my part, coaches have been doing this for decades.


At the same time, why discount the fact that the 49ers have to take into account that it’s highly likely this is complete bullshit?

RE: Tiki on the radio yesterday was saying a normal ankle sprain  
Matt M. : 9/20/2023 1:41 am : link
In comment 16213077 BlueHurricane said:
Quote:
Could/should be taped up and played on.

Don't shoot the messenger.
I agree with him. I find it odd the term "normal sprain" was specifically used (as good news), yet Barkley's reactions indicated worse and, up until Daboll's comments, everything else being done or said seemed to point to high ankle sprain.

If it is, indeed, "normal", I would expect him to play.
Mind games  
fkap : 9/20/2023 8:58 am : link
SF is now counting on an interception!

Even if he plays, he's not 100%, and will be on a snap count. Giants still have a bit of a run game sans Barkley, so they still have to plan for that.

Any way you look at it, SF has to have a balanced approach. With or without Barkley, SF can't abandon playing the run, or short yardage passing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm  
djm : 9/20/2023 10:09 am : link
In comment 16213164 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16213153 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16213102 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16213069 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 16212954 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


not sure why this is confusing to some.

Teams will have a totally different game plan for the Giants depending on the availability of Barkley.

Barkley is still vastly underrated on BBI.



Wait you didn't hear? It doesn't matter whether an all pro caliber RB plays or not. And if the Giants win, I told you all so...if they lose...well they suck anyway.

The whole RB NFL thing has made people nuts.


No, it matters if he plays because he's a very good player. And it matters because he represents a decent amount of cap room.

When people talk about the devaluation of RBs, the idea is that you repurpose that cap space elsewhere to benefit your team to a greater degree than a RB can. It's not that you should pay for a very good RB and then not use them because they don't matter.

They do matter. They're just not great investments, because they age quickly and get hurt often. This is actually a good example of why RB's are risky investments.

I know you're smarter than this. I just can't figure out why you pretend like you're not.



I was joking --plus the thread has nothing to do with cap economics. And also there is overpaying RBs like Miles Sanders (who I said wasn't that good) and weapons like Barkley. Barkley plays well when there is crap around him. Miles Sanders and many others get washed away with the tide because they aren't good enough to rise above it.

BArkley is worth the money. If you can predict the future of health more power to you. BArkley is not at the end. Not by a long shot, in my view.


I can predict that RBs get injured more than players at other positions. I can offer Barkley as evidence that he's not immune to the risks that accompany his position.

Also, just so I'm understanding this properly - health is impossible to predict, but avoiding age-based decline is easy to predict? I think you have that exactly backwards.

The greatest predictor of future injuries is past injuries. It's not perfect, but it's a pretty good indicator. And it definitely applies to Barkley. Not because he's fragile; entirely because he's a RB.


Not really disagreeing with any of this but he's still worth the 11-12 million especially on these shorter deals. Barkley brings more than the 12 million dollar vet FA WR.

And while it's obvious that RBs face a more troublesome injury path it's not that definitive or clear cut. DEs get hurt. OL get hurt. If Barkley doesn't get his ankle and body split into a pretzel maybe he does in fact play every game this season, just like last season.

This wasn't even the point I was trying to make...I was merely pointing out how stupid it is to imply that Barkley won't be missed.
According to NFL.COM  
HBart : 9/20/2023 3:00 pm : link
Barkley, Thomas, Azeez and Bredeson have already been ruled out.
Link - ( New Window )
According to NFL.COM  
HBart : 9/20/2023 3:00 pm : link
Barkley, Thomas, Azeez and Bredeson have already been ruled out.
Link - ( New Window )
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