Yesterday on his show, Tiki addressed those calling KT a bust, which included both media members and fans. He said first, those people aren't watching with a knowledge of the game, but just a fantasy football skewed eye only on stats. He went on to point out, KT is not being used in a way to pin his ears back and get to the QB, at least not this past week. He was dropped in coverage a lot and asked to set the edge. Also pointed out, most opposing runs are away from him due to his stout play against the run.
He said it is fair to have high expectations for a #5 pick, including sacks. But, at least in part, he is not compiling those stat because of how he is used/ But, that he is still a talented and valuable player. Tiki guessed KT's role will change from game to game, depending on the opponent.
Overall, I see what he's saying. But, a couple of areas I think are too excuse heavy. One, Tiki pointed out the number of times KT was double teamed. That's fine. But, an impact player taken at #5 should not be stoned from every double team. Likewise, his other point about teams running away from him is weak. A true impact player from his position still finds ways to make plays. Obviously LT was on a whole other level, but how many times a game did he run down a RB or WR on the other side of the field?
And on Baldy's breakdowns he showed a play where he completely froze inexplicably on a running play coming from the back side.
New York Giants fans aren't going to give him a chance at this point. Same with Evan Neal.
Worst city to play in as an athlete.
Not every play. But after 8 quarters of play we should be able to see something from his game. Sack the QB, tackle for loss, blow up a screen, force a hold or false start on the OT, or just a plain old big hit on the QB.
Show something.
That doesn't mean he's a bust, but also no one should be defending when he has two bad games.
If he finds a way to get a sack on Trent tomorrow night it will change the narrative quickly.
That doesn't mean he's a bust, but also no one should be defending when he has two bad games.
If he finds a way to get a sack on Trent tomorrow night it will change the narrative quickly.
It's beyond that at this point. Fans are claiming they can tell he is not interested in football by just looking at him. We've reached moron level of fandom here.
Like too many things in life these days, if you're not on the extreme ends of the spectrum - then people fear they will be ignored.
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had two bad games to start the season.
That doesn't mean he's a bust, but also no one should be defending when he has two bad games.
If he finds a way to get a sack on Trent tomorrow night it will change the narrative quickly.
It's beyond that at this point. Fans are claiming they can tell he is not interested in football by just looking at him. We've reached moron level of fandom here.
Very true, I forget just a week ago we were firing Joe Schoen because his top 2 picks last year were busts....
"We Have"? Shouldn't that be "We're still at" instead
New York Giants fans aren't going to give him a chance at this point. Same with Evan Neal.
Worst city to play in as an athlete.
You did say it was time to panic about Neal.
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had two bad games to start the season.
That doesn't mean he's a bust, but also no one should be defending when he has two bad games.
If he finds a way to get a sack on Trent tomorrow night it will change the narrative quickly.
It's beyond that at this point. Fans are claiming they can tell he is not interested in football by just looking at him. We've reached moron level of fandom here.
Well, Giants fans *are* the dumbest fans in the NFL, according to that study...
New York Giants fans aren't going to give him a chance at this point. Same with Evan Neal.
Worst city to play in as an athlete.
Do you think he's living up to reasonable expectations of performance for a #5 overall pick - yes or no?
I don't play armchair psychologist. I have no idea what his mindset is. All I know is that he has been invisible so far this year and, aside from a couple of games, underwhelmed last year as well.
The narrative surrounding KT right now is he simply doesn't care about football. Because some fan posted a video of him sitting on the bench during the game.
Last night, we had fans claim the Sights and Sound video PROVED his heart is not in it. Why? Because he was standing in a team huddle with other teammates.
You can't make this up.
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should just cut him at this point.
New York Giants fans aren't going to give him a chance at this point. Same with Evan Neal.
Worst city to play in as an athlete.
Do you think he's living up to reasonable expectations of performance for a #5 overall pick - yes or no?
I don't play armchair psychologist. I have no idea what his mindset is. All I know is that he has been invisible so far this year and, aside from a couple of games, underwhelmed last year as well.
Of course not. Don't be stupid.
But no one on the defense is playing well.
That's just a fact.
Seems like the concerns I and others had about him are kind of playing out in the NFL, the way he disappears for long tracts of time.
Or it could be a continuation of the narrative but definitely not a great start to the season.
The narrative surrounding KT right now is he simply doesn't care about football. Because some fan posted a video of him sitting on the bench during the game.
Last night, we had fans claim the Sights and Sound video PROVED his heart is not in it. Why? Because he was standing in a team huddle with other teammates.
You can't make this up.
Wink himself basically called out Thibs just about a month ago as well.
Or did we make that up too?
Wink all offseason praised KT for his competitiveness, including chasing plays 40 yards down field.
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In comment 16213588 Eric from BBI said:
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should just cut him at this point.
New York Giants fans aren't going to give him a chance at this point. Same with Evan Neal.
Worst city to play in as an athlete.
Do you think he's living up to reasonable expectations of performance for a #5 overall pick - yes or no?
I don't play armchair psychologist. I have no idea what his mindset is. All I know is that he has been invisible so far this year and, aside from a couple of games, underwhelmed last year as well.
Of course not. Don't be stupid.
But no one on the defense is playing well.
I love Martindale and he clearly knows what he is doing, especially redzone defense.
This Thursday will be telling cause its a short week and they didn't travel home and back (of course) so will they come out firing on all cylinders and ready?
Lets say Thibs gets an early sack on Purdy with a designed stunt or something. Does that mean he is all better and ready to be great?
As for Neal, same thing: when drafted they said he needed technique work and off-season my understanding he did work on that. You ask me he missed time in camp that he couldn't afford to lose (reps) and it hurt him game 1. For all we know Glowinski had a big fight with his wife right before the 1st game and just couldn't focus. Who knows.
Lets see how they do this Thursday especially right out of the gates. Win the toss. Run well even without Barkley. Get Waller over the middle to soften things up. Execute the short, safe pass game and execute those safe QB runs for good yards.
And on defense, will they put it together? Will they get to Purdy cause if they don't we ain't winning.
You’re an embarrassment to the spider name.
That is all.
That's just a fact.
Philly fans booing the first half of the Vikings game was so ridiculous….but thats Philly
Wink all offseason praised KT for his competitiveness, including chasing plays 40 yards down field.
Oh good. Glad to hear that's not the problem and its just Thibs being non-impactful with his play.
You’re not as bad as you look when you’re playing poorly and vice versa. Give this young talented player some time before we make bold claims about busting. I think he will be a good, not great player but that’s just speculation at this point; we still need to see him complete year two. Get over Micah Parsons; we didn’t draft him and Thibs is not the player Parsons is. He may be a good one, give him some time. Coaches need to figure out how best to utilize his skills as well; it’s not all on him for the slow start.
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In comment 16213601 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 16213588 Eric from BBI said:
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should just cut him at this point.
New York Giants fans aren't going to give him a chance at this point. Same with Evan Neal.
Worst city to play in as an athlete.
Do you think he's living up to reasonable expectations of performance for a #5 overall pick - yes or no?
I don't play armchair psychologist. I have no idea what his mindset is. All I know is that he has been invisible so far this year and, aside from a couple of games, underwhelmed last year as well.
Of course not. Don't be stupid.
But no one on the defense is playing well.
No one is playing well on defense right now... I tend to agree! Defenses need to gel just like offenses do and gain synergistic effects by playing together and knowing fully what everyone is doing each play.
I love Martindale and he clearly knows what he is doing, especially redzone defense.
This Thursday will be telling cause its a short week and they didn't travel home and back (of course) so will they come out firing on all cylinders and ready?
Lets say Thibs gets an early sack on Purdy with a designed stunt or something. Does that mean he is all better and ready to be great?
As for Neal, same thing: when drafted they said he needed technique work and off-season my understanding he did work on that. You ask me he missed time in camp that he couldn't afford to lose (reps) and it hurt him game 1. For all we know Glowinski had a big fight with his wife right before the 1st game and just couldn't focus. Who knows.
Lets see how they do this Thursday especially right out of the gates. Win the toss. Run well even without Barkley. Get Waller over the middle to soften things up. Execute the short, safe pass game and execute those safe QB runs for good yards.
And on defense, will they put it together? Will they get to Purdy cause if they don't we ain't winning.
It might be best to just air it out. AZ was still trying to stop the run up 20 and playing Tampa 2 on 3rd and long. I think teams are obviously trying to stop our short stuff knowing our putrid oline.
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That narrative has been misconstrued too. Wink does that on a regular basis with everyone. That was explained the next day.
Wink all offseason praised KT for his competitiveness, including chasing plays 40 yards down field.
Oh good. Glad to hear that's not the problem and its just Thibs being non-impactful with his play.
I wish I saw Thibs making tackles 40 yards down the field instead of alligator arming Connor (who is this bum?) running across his face for a big chunk play.
Q. What do you think of (outside linebacker) Kayvon (Thibodeaux)'s camp and particularly just how he did in the joint practices in Detroit?
A: I thought that in Detroit, on Tuesday and Wednesday, I think he caused two fumbles and recovered two fumbles. I expect him to be at the top of everything, and so do we. I've talked to him about his practice. I think that he heard me clearly. I talked to him in front of the entire defense. So, Kayvon is going to be fine, first of all. Like I said, he caused two fumbles, and he recovered two fumbles. In the two days, we had, like, eight takeaways against, what were they, a top five offense last year, which gave us confidence in ourselves and the way we competed there.
Q. What do you mean you talked to him about his practice in front of the defense? You didn't think he was practicing intensely enough?
A: No. I do a 'keep it real' with everybody on where they're at and why they're there, because the last thing I want as a coach is for a player to drive in this parking lot and not know where they stand, especially this time of year. Because I think that we build our relationships, we build our foundation on trust and honesty. I tell them what I think and where they stand, and where the competition is, where the line is. I talk about all that. So, like I said, we had a great week in Detroit. I'm sure you haven't heard that quote very often. But it was it was a great week, and I'm excited to take this next step.
******
This is what Daboll said the next day:
Q: (Defensive coordinator) Wink (Martindale) yesterday mentioned that he said in front of the whole defense to challenge (outside linebacker) Kayvon Thibodeaux to up his level of play in practice and Kayvon responded to that. What did you make of how Kayvon responded with how he performed?
A: I’d just say in general we try to do that with every player. Coach our players, tell them things that they’re doing well, correct them on things they’re not. That’s what we do on the day-to-day basis. It’s not specific to one guy, I’d say that’s all of our jobs to do.
Q: How much of the thing with him is you want to see it on an everyday basis?
A: What’s that?
Q: With Kayvon.
A: I want to see everything consistent with everybody. Coaches, players, but that’s why we’re out here practicing.
****
This is what Leonard Williams said the same day:
Q. (Defensive coordinator) Wink (Martindale) shared yesterday that he pretty much asked (outside linebacker) Kayvon (Thibodeaux) for more in front of the defense during a 'keep it real' period. As a guy who has been a premier player in the league on defense, if a coach does call you directly to step up, is that something that sometimes is called for, that you actually welcome as a player, for a coach to do?
A: I would say so. As a player, I have never wanted a coach to be a yes man. That's the coach's job is to push us and get the best potential out of us as they can. Sometimes it takes that little extra push and fire under us to get us going and honestly, going on nine years of playing, I have never had a coach keep it real like that before and I think the guys respect it, honestly. Sometimes in camp guys are trying to make the team and stuff like that and they don't really know how the coaches see them or where they fit on the roster and stuff like that. In those keep it real meetings, he goes down every single player. It's not just Kayvon, or not just me, or not just anybody. He addresses every single individual and lets you know exactly how he feels, and I think the guys respect it.
*****
So once again, Wink said something and it was turned into something completely different.
Now we've got it instilled in the fan base that KT is some sort of bad apple.
Unbelievable.
New York Giants fans aren't going to give him a chance at this point. Same with Evan Neal.
Worst city to play in as an athlete.
I agree. The idea is that NY fans are just "so knowledgeable" and "let you know"...is such dogshit. Sorry, but fan bases are knowledgeable and passionate, period. NY fans have such bloated egos. To link it in baseball terms - it's like they WANT to create (dated reference) Chuck Knoblauch situations in athletes, so they can take almost take pride in fucking a guy's head up instead of dare I say, being fans - and encouraging. They just want to bitch about it on WFAN. They WANT to see a French Revolution scene where the dude gets the guillotine or run out of town. Coughlin alluded to this from time to time - suggesting the Giant crowds tended not to be supportive and he would make appeals to fans like "WTF is the matter with you?". And he's right.
However, it is also appropriate to be concerned. Sys draft preview highlighted a lack of secondary moves when playing against big time OL and getting locked up too easily or pushed aside too easily. We have seen some of that. Thibs himself said he needed to work on and execute secondary moves.
There are too many issues on D right now though to think some of the arent scheme related.
2.0 sacks and 3 more needed pressures from Thibs tomorrow night.
Book it.
"I think when you play this game and you start to realize, and I’m only answering like this because I know there’s videos and there’s always narratives put out,’’ Thibodeaux said Tuesday after the Giants held a walk-through practice, preparing for Thursday night’s game against the 49ers in Santa Clara, Calif. “When you’re in a situation where the fate of the game lands on one drive or one situation and you’re kind of those people, the defense, the guys who are looked to to answer that, the only person I look to is God. So I’m sitting in that moment and I’m praying and I’m kind of I guess you can say meditating, seeing, visualizing what we’re gonna do as a team."
2.5 sacks tomorrow night and 3 pressures.
Q. What do you think of (outside linebacker) Kayvon (Thibodeaux)'s camp and particularly just how he did in the joint practices in Detroit?
A: I thought that in Detroit, on Tuesday and Wednesday, I think he caused two fumbles and recovered two fumbles. I expect him to be at the top of everything, and so do we. I've talked to him about his practice. I think that he heard me clearly. I talked to him in front of the entire defense. So, Kayvon is going to be fine, first of all. Like I said, he caused two fumbles, and he recovered two fumbles. In the two days, we had, like, eight takeaways against, what were they, a top five offense last year, which gave us confidence in ourselves and the way we competed there.
Q. What do you mean you talked to him about his practice in front of the defense? You didn't think he was practicing intensely enough?
A: No. I do a 'keep it real' with everybody on where they're at and why they're there, because the last thing I want as a coach is for a player to drive in this parking lot and not know where they stand, especially this time of year. Because I think that we build our relationships, we build our foundation on trust and honesty. I tell them what I think and where they stand, and where the competition is, where the line is. I talk about all that. So, like I said, we had a great week in Detroit. I'm sure you haven't heard that quote very often. But it was it was a great week, and I'm excited to take this next step.
******
This is what Daboll said the next day:
Q: (Defensive coordinator) Wink (Martindale) yesterday mentioned that he said in front of the whole defense to challenge (outside linebacker) Kayvon Thibodeaux to up his level of play in practice and Kayvon responded to that. What did you make of how Kayvon responded with how he performed?
A: I’d just say in general we try to do that with every player. Coach our players, tell them things that they’re doing well, correct them on things they’re not. That’s what we do on the day-to-day basis. It’s not specific to one guy, I’d say that’s all of our jobs to do.
Q: How much of the thing with him is you want to see it on an everyday basis?
A: What’s that?
Q: With Kayvon.
A: I want to see everything consistent with everybody. Coaches, players, but that’s why we’re out here practicing.
****
This is what Leonard Williams said the same day:
Q. (Defensive coordinator) Wink (Martindale) shared yesterday that he pretty much asked (outside linebacker) Kayvon (Thibodeaux) for more in front of the defense during a 'keep it real' period. As a guy who has been a premier player in the league on defense, if a coach does call you directly to step up, is that something that sometimes is called for, that you actually welcome as a player, for a coach to do?
A: I would say so. As a player, I have never wanted a coach to be a yes man. That's the coach's job is to push us and get the best potential out of us as they can. Sometimes it takes that little extra push and fire under us to get us going and honestly, going on nine years of playing, I have never had a coach keep it real like that before and I think the guys respect it, honestly. Sometimes in camp guys are trying to make the team and stuff like that and they don't really know how the coaches see them or where they fit on the roster and stuff like that. In those keep it real meetings, he goes down every single player. It's not just Kayvon, or not just me, or not just anybody. He addresses every single individual and lets you know exactly how he feels, and I think the guys respect it.
*****
So once again, Wink said something and it was turned into something completely different.
Now we've got it instilled in the fan base that KT is some sort of bad apple.
Unbelievable.
Anyone who has ever listened to KT speak, or listened to his teammates speak about him, would know he is not a ‘bad apple’. People (and the media) like to stir up shit, so some photo of him off to the side results in wild speculation and innuendo that is meaningless.
There’s been no poll here, but I think most Giants fans think he’s a ‘good guy’. I think most Giants fans think he has underperformed this year to date. I think most Giants fans think he is talented and expect him to do better. Nothing to see here really; the whole defense is on notice, including Wink. This unit has to play better if we’re going to build on last year.
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Expected anything much from him. I had doubts about his motor, from the start. He seemed more 'brand', than anything else to me.
You’re an embarrassment to the spider name.
Keep your family drama off BBI, please and thank you.
He also said before the season he expects him to make the most impact plays this season.
The D needs to be better and certainly fair to include KT. Maybe the lack of work in preseason had a impact on them as well. Time for KT and everyone to step up including the coaches. They are working in a lot of new pieces.
He eventually said there may be times when they should tell him to just go get the QB, but right now that's not how they're using him.
There's a story about Bill Parcells sitting down with Carl Banks after the season early in Banks's career and asking him "How good do you want to be?" That conversation may be coming up for KT. It's not that he's bad; but how good does he want to be?
These guys need to get their heads out of their asses, figure it out, and make some plays.
We want them doing the dirty work and him kept reasonably clean to provide the impact plays. He's supposed to be the goods.