Yesterday on his show, Tiki addressed those calling KT a bust, which included both media members and fans. He said first, those people aren't watching with a knowledge of the game, but just a fantasy football skewed eye only on stats. He went on to point out, KT is not being used in a way to pin his ears back and get to the QB, at least not this past week. He was dropped in coverage a lot and asked to set the edge. Also pointed out, most opposing runs are away from him due to his stout play against the run.
He said it is fair to have high expectations for a #5 pick, including sacks. But, at least in part, he is not compiling those stat because of how he is used/ But, that he is still a talented and valuable player. Tiki guessed KT's role will change from game to game, depending on the opponent.
Overall, I see what he's saying. But, a couple of areas I think are too excuse heavy. One, Tiki pointed out the number of times KT was double teamed. That's fine. But, an impact player taken at #5 should not be stoned from every double team. Likewise, his other point about teams running away from him is weak. A true impact player from his position still finds ways to make plays. Obviously LT was on a whole other level, but how many times a game did he run down a RB or WR on the other side of the field?
This might even explain was he was looked discouraged on the sidelines.
KT doing his job, 1st half - ( New Window )
2) Thibodeaux has dropped into coverage on about 20% of the passing plays this year. Slightly more than last year's 14%, but I would hardly call it "a lot".
3) He has had over two dozen pass rush attempts on an island against one blocker and has one pressure. That is really bad - BUT it is such a small sample size and. agree it is foolish to consider him a "bust" (one of the most overused words ever)
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The disconnect is this:
Thibodeaux has not played well in 2 games. He has not defeated one on one blocking when the opportunity arises. His power game looks poor. And he did not make any impressive/instinctive plays when he was the back side defender. I watch a lot of football college and NFL every week and I have done so for over a decade. Guys can innovate/react and make plays away from the ball. Hell, he did it last year a few times.
The point is...he has NOT done any of that yet in 2 games. And that is where the conversation ends. It IS allowed to be said he has not played well. At the same time, it is dumb to call him a failure, bust, or whatever else that fits along those lines. And also at the same time - it is dumb to act like you need to defend him against those that call out a lack of impact play.
Evaluation is a week to week process and then you can put it in pen after the year if you feel the need to. But in season? Thibodeaux is 0 for 2 on quality games and anyone saying otherwise has fallen victim to confirmation bias.
If you want another example...look at the response to Daniel Jones (wk 1 and wk 2). I call it what it is. Good, bad, ugly, beautiful.
But guess what? Nothing matters when the next game starts. Some can't seem to accept that.
Thibodeaux could definitely walk out there tomorrow night and have a big night. It will be noted if he does. It will be lifted up if he does. If he has another quiet game, it will be noted as well. He proved he is a good player. He has not yet proved he can be one of the best. He has not yet proved he can be a power player.
It is simpler than most of you (Tiki, you too) want to think.
Excellent analysis. Moving this to the bottom hoping more people read it...
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1) NYG did not use the 5th overall pick on a guy to just set the edge. They signed Jhad Ward for that
2) Thibodeaux has dropped into coverage on about 20% of the passing plays this year. Slightly more than last year's 14%, but I would hardly call it "a lot".
3) He has had over two dozen pass rush attempts on an island against one blocker and has one pressure. That is really bad - BUT it is such a small sample size and. agree it is foolish to consider him a "bust" (one of the most overused words ever)
___
The disconnect is this:
Thibodeaux has not played well in 2 games. He has not defeated one on one blocking when the opportunity arises. His power game looks poor. And he did not make any impressive/instinctive plays when he was the back side defender. I watch a lot of football college and NFL every week and I have done so for over a decade. Guys can innovate/react and make plays away from the ball. Hell, he did it last year a few times.
The point is...he has NOT done any of that yet in 2 games. And that is where the conversation ends. It IS allowed to be said he has not played well. At the same time, it is dumb to call him a failure, bust, or whatever else that fits along those lines. And also at the same time - it is dumb to act like you need to defend him against those that call out a lack of impact play.
Evaluation is a week to week process and then you can put it in pen after the year if you feel the need to. But in season? Thibodeaux is 0 for 2 on quality games and anyone saying otherwise has fallen victim to confirmation bias.
If you want another example...look at the response to Daniel Jones (wk 1 and wk 2). I call it what it is. Good, bad, ugly, beautiful.
But guess what? Nothing matters when the next game starts. Some can't seem to accept that.
Thibodeaux could definitely walk out there tomorrow night and have a big night. It will be noted if he does. It will be lifted up if he does. If he has another quiet game, it will be noted as well. He proved he is a good player. He has not yet proved he can be one of the best. He has not yet proved he can be a power player.
It is simpler than most of you (Tiki, you too) want to think.
Excellent analysis. Moving this to the bottom hoping more people read it...
This is the week we get turnovers and compete or we get cooked again.
Either Tiki is just lifting his opinion directly from what he read on Twitter, or these are talking points that the Giants have decided upon and those who are friendly within the media are carrying some water to push the "too many fantasy football stat geeks" narrative.
He started off with a rant about how he's an NFL analyst and most people don't watch film the way he does.
Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think Tiki is cribbing from Paul Dottino. It's possible he's cribbing from contacts at the Giants, but I think Tiki actually works very hard at his football broadcasting jobs (though he doesn't always do in-depth preparation for his sports-talk shows) and it sure sounded like he had put in some time. It seems more likely to me that Dottino was cribbing from Tiki.
I sincerely hope that as Simmons learns more of the defense he gets a larger role. At some point you’d hope Simmons could become a 3 down ILB/SS Hybrid. A bigger, faster version for the role Landon Collins played.
Since Simmons has been in the NFC West, maybe he’s assigned to Kittle for many plays, blitzing on others.
If you watch the Game vs AZ, KT was double teamed a lot. He was asked to set an edge a lot. I too would expect a few more pressures and maybe a tackle for a loss by now. I am not making excuses for KT.
Personally, I would like to see more aggressiveness from the entire front 7. Maybe with 2 rookie CB's that is hard to accomplish?
Ryan, overreaction, here on BBI, no way man.
If as i believe Wink wants his olb to rush but with containment that affects the pass rush as you have to bull rush more and not make an inside pass rush. So you are effectively left with an outside rush or bull rush.
If we used KT like Dallas uses Parsons, which i think we should, results would be different.
I think Wink should unleash KT and have him pass rush from where ever KT wants. Have him jumping around the line of scrimmage so the offense doesnt know where he is going to rush from.
I think a player like KT does best when they can freelance and use all of their abilities.
If you want someone to just set the edge and bull rush you dont need KT for that.
Absolutely a valid take.
It's evidence that Schoen isn't above criticism. The jury's out on him.
I've been thinking about it, and I wonder if we simply drafted him into the wrong scheme.
I’m not sure what he’s missing - it may be that he’s not really exceptional at any one thing as a rusher, it could be scheme and how he’s being asked to play, or a combo.
When I watched his college tape, I never once thought he’d struggle to create pressure and win 1v1. He was the focal point of offenses and still dominated - even beating double and triple teams at time. Neal, for example, you saw clear holes in his game (slower feet, balance issues) which could have been red flags.
I’m still holding out hope for KT to become a very good player but it is clear to me he is not on the Watt, Bosa, Garrett, Crosby level. Those guys were great from the second they stepped on an NFL field.
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that Schoen should be fired are ridiculous. His overall body of work, in my opinion, is still strong enough. Look, for example, how many starters or significant contributors we are getting from this year's draft. Look at the overall roster turnover and salary cap overhaul that took place in less than 2 seasons.
It's evidence that Schoen isn't above criticism. The jury's out on him.
It is, but his 2023 draft looks a lot better. Its hard to judge a GM on his first draft w/o all of his guys in the building, its also incredibly bad to miss on two top ten picks. We'll see.
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It's too soon for labels, obviously, but through roughly 20 NFL games KT's largely performed like a JAG lacking football instincts. And, I say that as one who championed him out of Oregon where he often played gamewrecker.
I've been thinking about it, and I wonder if we simply drafted him into the wrong scheme.
Wink's certainly not using him the way I'd expect, nor how he was used in '22. Right now, he's using him more like a SAM and it feels like Wink is overthinking this. Unit is young, I think he's trying to protect it, but ...
I’m not sure what he’s missing - it may be that he’s not really exceptional at any one thing as a rusher, it could be scheme and how he’s being asked to play, or a combo.
When I watched his college tape, I never once thought he’d struggle to create pressure and win 1v1. He was the focal point of offenses and still dominated - even beating double and triple teams at time. Neal, for example, you saw clear holes in his game (slower feet, balance issues) which could have been red flags.
I’m still holding out hope for KT to become a very good player but it is clear to me he is not on the Watt, Bosa, Garrett, Crosby level. Those guys were great from the second they stepped on an NFL field.
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In comment 16213996 JonC said:
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It's too soon for labels, obviously, but through roughly 20 NFL games KT's largely performed like a JAG lacking football instincts. And, I say that as one who championed him out of Oregon where he often played gamewrecker.
I've been thinking about it, and I wonder if we simply drafted him into the wrong scheme.
Wink's certainly not using him the way I'd expect, nor how he was used in '22. Right now, he's using him more like a SAM and it feels like Wink is overthinking this. Unit is young, I think he's trying to protect it, but ...
Is it possible that Wink's scheme is hurting Thibodeaux and Williams' abilities to make plays?
🤦♂️