Yes, the offense is bad. That is expected with missing our top two OL. Yes, I would have gotten Hyatt on the field more. There were plays to be made. I was watching the all 22 on Prime and SF lined up in a lot of single coverage when Hyatt was on the field. People will say Jones was pressured but he had plenty of plays where he wasn't but the design just wasn't there. This reminded me of Kafka calling plays as opposed to Daboll.
Either way, that isn't the main point of this thread. The main point of this thread is the defense. Holy shit. What is going on? Missed tackles, jogging to the ball, standing around, not knowing their responsibilities, etc. Take the first 3rd and 15 we gave up. Pinnock came flying in and ran right behind a defender. CMC just ran through the open hole for an easy conversion. How about later on when CMC is running to his left and it is just Banks, I think it was Banks. He is stiff arming him and got like an extra 7 yards. Check out Thibodeaux on that play. He isn't even jogging. He is basically speed walking. He could have knocked him out of bounds but he takes his sweet ass time getting over there and puts his two hands on him but doesn't even give a good push.
This defense is hard to watch. There is no hustle. They don't rally to the ball as a team. So many times you see defenders slow down when they think someone else is going to make the tackle. There is no heart or passion on this defense. With a team that has 10 captains there is no leader of this defense. Then you compound that with mental mistakes on filling gaps and sometimes coverage responsibilities and this is what we get. Oh, and don't even mention all the penalties on defense.
I remember Wink when he was first hired talk about communication and how important it was. So far this year we are still having issues with communicating. We are having issues with responsibilities and we are having issues with effort. Nobody expected us to win this game. I get that but think about all the 3rd downs we gave up. How many were short yardage where SF just lined up and beat us? The answer is very few if any. Almost all of these 3rd downs were exactly where Wink wants to be yet we looked like fools. Bad tackling, bad pursuit, bad angles, bad effort, and bad gap responsibility. Yes, SF is good but this is on us.
Until this defense plays like they have a fire under their asses, until they have a true leader step up, until they know their roles, until they gang tackle, until they all run to the ball, this year isn't going to get better regardless of the opponent.
How's the defense look if the batted ball goes to a Giant or even falls to the ground? How about if they had 100 more yards of field position to work with because their TE and double threat WR made some plays?
Missed tackles can be corrected. Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. Personally I'm encouraged by last night's defensive showing. As far as I'm concerned, they did their job last night. In fact, run the same plays by the same players at home and we might even win that game. Every big 3rd down that killed us was set up by a blatant noo-call. That's the NFL but nobody is going to beat SF without a level field and some fortuitous breaks.
They have three stud offensive weapons to go to and well it wasn't our night tackling.
I don't know where the fucking pride is. I played small school D3 college ball, nothing close to this level, yet one of the biggest motivators for us on defense was the fear of getting embarrassed during Monday film sesh by our defensive coordinator lighting us up if we didn't bust our ass or deliver a hit where we could in front of all our teammates
If Wink's not doing that to these guys Monday, there's something seriously wrong
I would argue the Rams have a roster comprised of the most unrecognized names in the NFL. And on paper, one of the worst looking.
But they gave the 9ers all they could handle. If not for a perfect pass from Stafford the receiver misplayed that got intercepted, that game may have gone the Rams way. Plus, Kupp was out.
Here is where I am going. That game was about great planning and coaching by McVay and his staff. Granted the Rams have a Hall of Fame QB with Stafford, but he is surrounded by a group of skill players that should not be more productive than ours. And before you give me an OL argument, just go look at the Rams OL.
IMV, the performance last night was more about coaching than personnel.
You do realize we have lost to the top two teams in the NFC and possibly the NFL, don’t you?
You do realize some things take time and adjustments need to be made when you have so many new players and key players injured?
I choose to gather more data first before I draw any conclusions.
I counted at least 4-5 balls that should have been picked. How they came up with 0 interceptions last night is beyond me.
Defense is a complete shock. They cannot stop the run, cannot cover the pass and most damning--they cannot tackle and often seem to just be going through the motions. KT looks every bit the question mark that Neal is on offense which does not speak well for the new GM. Pinnock and McKinney seem overmatched and the touted DL is resting on its laurels. Rookie DBs playing like rookies is not a surprise.
Never thought Wink was the answer as good QBs and teams can adjust to his style and simply get the ball out quickly. Giants defense was not exactly dominant last year either. Maybe there is a reason most neutral analysts thought the Giants outplayed their talent last year.
You do realize we have lost to the top two teams in the NFC and possibly the NFL, don’t you?
You do realize some things take time and adjustments need to be made when you have so many new players and key players injured?
I choose to gather more data first before I draw any conclusions.
The Giants didn’t just lose to those teams, they got blown out. Bad tackling, missed assignments, and jogging to the ball is inexcusable no matter for any defense. They also made Dobbs look like a good qb. This D is bad.
You do realize we have lost to the top two teams in the NFC and possibly the NFL, don’t you?
You do realize some things take time and adjustments need to be made when you have so many new players and key players injured?
I choose to gather more data first before I draw any conclusions.
Losing to better teams is one thing. Showing no heart and no fight on defense is another.
You’ve said that a bunch of times and there is zero validity to it.
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We have gone from “Wink for President” to “WINK BE GONE!” that quickly.
You do realize we have lost to the top two teams in the NFC and possibly the NFL, don’t you?
You do realize some things take time and adjustments need to be made when you have so many new players and key players injured?
I choose to gather more data first before I draw any conclusions.
The Giants didn’t just lose to those teams, they got blown out. Bad tackling, missed assignments, and jogging to the ball is inexcusable no matter for any defense. They also made Dobbs look like a good qb. This D is bad.
Defensive side injuries are non issue. These guys know the system. Nothing excuses the pathetic tackling, the wide open ( over the middle) receivers. The lack of cohesion etc. Its the attitude.
They moved him exclusively to the strong side in the 2nd half, presumably to get him free from Trent Williams.
They also played a bunch of 3-4, with Robinson.
They did a lot of what fans have wanted. Purdy to his credit was getting the ball out instantly.
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Thibs seems to be more concerned with what he's rocking to the game than what he's doing on the field. Sick of him.
You’ve said that a bunch of times and there is zero validity to it.
His effort sucks. & I don't hate Thibs. I thought he had a solid rookie season, but his performance this season has been horseshit.
Offense-abandon the run, use heavy play-action that confuses no one because no run game is established. You have an OL that is not strong pass blocking. So, the converse would be to setup some running plays and allow the OL to get a push at the line of scrimmage. Pull the guard, run a counter, setup a draw play, get creative with it.
Defense-this is one of poorest tackling groups I have ever seen. Seriously makes me wonder how much tackling they did in the summer. The DL gets no push, guys are constantly out of position. Very rarely are guys winning one on one battles on defense. Guys take wrong lanes, shoot the wrong gaps, don't set the edge. Averaging giving up 28 PPG so far.
Maybe there is disconnect and we're just adding parts without understanding what they are meant for and to sum together?
I think we are much farther away than many here. There's a lot of personnel misses still on the team, and some of them are looking like Schoens to answer for already. It's not still early, the NFL is not a league where you have to wait for years or fit in a 4-5 year rebuild strategy.
Take your pick.
Coaching is a huge issue, especially on offense. Last year, it was lackluster out of necessity. This year, it was supposed to step up, but the scheme/play calling is just a shit show. Defense just doesn't seem to be inspirational, and has issues as noted above.
Too soon to give up on Daboll and/or Schoen, but man, that shiny new car look is fading. Let's hope they get out the Turtle Wax and recover that luster.
They don't play hard to a man to the whistle, they're leaving plays all over the field. They look confused a chunk of the time, guessing on which gaps to fill, poor leverage on contain and funneling the run, not rallying to the football.
It's a mess and a house of cards.
I get that the OL is a big issue, but this loss is on the offense. Take away the big 2nd half last week (against maybe the worst roster in the league), and they’ve scored 12 points in 2 full games. That ain’t gonna cut it. Daboll was hired based on his offensive prowess, he needs to figure this out.
Get AT back (even more important than SB, IMO), get some sort of continuity in the OL and beat Seattle. If not, it’s a long year.
They moved him exclusively to the strong side in the 2nd half, presumably to get him free from Trent Williams.
They also played a bunch of 3-4, with Robinson.
They did a lot of what fans have wanted. Purdy to his credit was getting the ball out instantly.
After watching Thibs play last Sunday at the game and again last night, I have no idea how he drafted so high. He doesn’t like contact at all, he uses the same technique trying to corner rush and you can’t put him in the middle because he doesn’t have the power. So they drop him in pass coverage…wtf. This is a number one pick.
I get that the OL is a big issue, but this loss is on the offense. Take away the big 2nd half last week (against maybe the worst roster in the league), and they’ve scored 12 points in 2 full games. That ain’t gonna cut it. Daboll was hired based on his offensive prowess, he needs to figure this out.
Get AT back (even more important than SB, IMO), get some sort of continuity in the OL and beat Seattle. If not, it’s a long year.
I view last night as a total team loss with both the offense and defense playing a horrid brand of ball. Both units were beaten down again and again. If one side of the ball played better than the other, the difference was meaningless IMO.
After being poor at this last season the Giants made significant additions to fix the run D issues.
Let's hope Seattle is the start of the turnaround. I actually saw some positives on D last night but the missed picks, tackling and the 3rd and long conversions were all killers.
At least I got to meet a celebrity
Don’t recall seeing so many missed tackles or poor tackles, so little pass rush and so little effort in a long time. It’s to the point where when the opponent has a 3rd and 10 or 12, it’s almost a lock they’re going to convert. And after bringing in all those DL who were supposedly run stoppers, they still give up mega yards on the ground. In short, they don’t look ready to play and that’s on Daboll, Kafka and Wink.
There are some fat cats on this defense (Williams, Thibodeaux, Ward, Okereke and Ojulari (got another boo boo) that need to start playing to their salaries and talent level. One thing about the Giants is no matter how inept their offense was, they always played tough defense. Not this group. Very uninspired. They play like they have something else to do. Daboll should put them all on notice and maybe bench a few too.
If they don’t figure it all out pretty soon, they’ll be out of the race altogether.
At least I got to meet a celebrity
Is that Stephen Root?
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I saw no sense of urgency, no fire, no passion, just a bunch of guys moping around like they didn't want to be there. WTF!
At least I got to meet a celebrity
Is that Stephen Root?
Sammy Hagar.
Seattle game looms. It’s a huge game. Win 24-20 and all is well. Lose and look bad doing so and it’s gets even uglier around here.
This isn’t good at all. If they suck against Seattle the excuses completely run dry and honestly they really don’t have any excuses to begin with. The entire defensive unit is healthy. It still sucks. This isn’t 2007 where you had the new DC and it was two games. This isn’t even last season where the D looked even better than it does now, through the first 3 games.
I’m so sick and tired of the nyg defense. We’re talking over ten fucking years now where D has sucked. One time it was good, 2016, when they spent stupid money in FA.
We won’t do shit until the D is good.
As long as the checks clear, I think some of them would be okay with that. There were times last season when the defense was absolutely abysmal. But I never thought that they were soft or questioned their effort. These guys are softer than baby shit and don’t really seem to care.
As others have said, its somehow more worry some than an offense that’s been good for two quarters.
This isn’t good at all. If they suck against Seattle the excuses completely run dry and honestly they really don’t have any excuses to begin with. The entire defensive unit is healthy. It still sucks. This isn’t 2007 where you had the new DC and it was two games. This isn’t even last season where the D looked even better than it does now, through the first 3 games.
I’m so sick and tired of the nyg defense. We’re talking over ten fucking years now where D has sucked. One time it was good, 2016, when they spent stupid money in FA.
We won’t do shit until the D is good.
Skins have the same DC [and theirnew OC Bienemy reportedly markedly dialed up preparation and practice intensity across the whole team]. Their D last year put ours to shame - they were stingy in yards and points.
Buffalo's O shredded them. Largely because their defense beat the snot out of Howell.
From what I saw Thursday, the D will be fine when the offense is fine, and the offense will be fine when the OL is healthy. The tackling will get cleaned up - lots of teams are in the same early season boat. I think these games in 11 days to start the season will end up being a blessing by mid-season (usual injury caveat).
At least I got to meet a celebrity
Hope he didn’t loan you any money.
Horrible fundamentals. My old HS football coach is rolling in his grave.
Offense has problems, but I'm not as worried because they are at least bipolar. Defense so far has just been putrid, and I feel its more execution (lack of fundamentals and hustle) than scheme.
Also, they faced 3 of the NFL's toughest players to tackle on Thursday. Every team has the same struggles to an extent. In our case, the timing is fortunate.
If I were a coach, I'd love our schedule. Players don't develop overnight. They need to play, and make mistakes and learn from them. It takes challenge to expose mistakes. We had a greater challenge than anticipated, made more mistakes than anticipated (or not - every single coach has said it's going to take a few games), and now there's time to address them. To the extent the CBA allows.
At least I got to meet a celebrity
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Is this is the same staff— same DC. Most of the players from last year are still here. All they did was add talent. Sugar coat it anyway you want, yea they played 2 great NFC teams, they still got lit up.
This isn’t good at all. If they suck against Seattle the excuses completely run dry and honestly they really don’t have any excuses to begin with. The entire defensive unit is healthy. It still sucks. This isn’t 2007 where you had the new DC and it was two games. This isn’t even last season where the D looked even better than it does now, through the first 3 games.
I’m so sick and tired of the nyg defense. We’re talking over ten fucking years now where D has sucked. One time it was good, 2016, when they spent stupid money in FA.
We won’t do shit until the D is good.
Skins have the same DC [and theirnew OC Bienemy reportedly markedly dialed up preparation and practice intensity across the whole team]. Their D last year put ours to shame - they were stingy in yards and points.
Buffalo's O shredded them. Largely because their defense beat the snot out of Howell.
From what I saw Thursday, the D will be fine when the offense is fine, and the offense will be fine when the OL is healthy. The tackling will get cleaned up - lots of teams are in the same early season boat. I think these games in 11 days to start the season will end up being a blessing by mid-season (usual injury caveat).
We'll see...I almost don't even want to watch Seattle MNF as that game really is the reckoning of sorts. NYG defense can't run and hide for much longer. Get to 2-2. Just win that game, maybe stumble into a few sacks, turnovers and stops and get the win. I won't lie, I am nervous.
That said, they have played a rough 3 games. Still, they need to stop these good teams once in a while or forget about competing for anything of substance.
I thought the defense had set itself up for a better outcome, but you can miss on third and 15+ twice in the first half. Those were big.
Miss tackling is bad right now but I think they are playing hard they just need to execute in situations. I certainly don't see players loafing.
I suspect it will get better esp against lesser talented teams. The Cowboys and 49ers to be are the two best teams in the NFC (although Dallas laid an egg yesterday - it happens).
And is this a reason Okereke is looking less impactful?
I always thought it was the job of the DL to tie up blockers and have the LBs clean up.
Well, 2 DL's aren't going to tie up blockers and Okereke is going to be downfield making the tackle.
He played behind a pretty decent DL in Indy I believe, right?